Lurker > Lopen

Make it like Mario's Spinoff where you have to use all of em once obv.
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I'm just saying it's the only way you can really know you've had enough. To be left wanting even after getting the item you wanted most. Only then can you truly be free.
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Real men quit after good draws not bad ones
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Did you say that? I'm not sure you did. Like I know you said "this needs work" but I felt like maybe explaining why the ability was bad to begin with clearly would prevent such mistakes from being made again. Like I have no idea why that was even thought as an ability.

Anyway I think an ability that burns two abilities to function has to be really good-- that new dual tech still isn't good enough to merit it, either, for that matter. Kamek's idea is probably the best. Pick a dual tech Crono has to use with a merc on his team and they do it the best they can vs one merc. Upgrade for triple techs. Crono + two actual good mages using Delta Force it's money man.
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Guess Ulti is saying he was such a terribly obvious scum that your read wasn't needed. Kinda harsh but if he's that down on himself what can you do.
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Arguing politics I think you mean posting Twitter links
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I like how I somehow avoid all of these free deals, this newest one somehow missing me despite not having a current subscription-- probably because I had one a month ago.

Screw you WWE Network
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I thought it was a good idea when I first started but I think it might be overkill-- not really that many good friend point TMs. I guess having a huge supply of strong friends is useful but I feel like I could prune a lot of em and be basically okay.
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And I mean really when you think about it someone should have a comeback at this point. Cena has cut that same promo so many times now, and it's left the other guy dumbfounded every time? Hell why not point out that he's cut that same promo so many times that it's clearly rehearsed and fake just like Cena?

Then again I guess you'd think people would stop wildly swinging at Cena to cause the protoplex opening every time too. What can ya do.
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I was a fan of that Cena promo the first 10 times I saw it.

Now it's like... boring. It feels like, fake. Like the whole promo is set up just so Cena can go off on his rambling I'M SO REAL!! tirade.

http://botchedspot.com/blog/comic/shooting-on-cena/

That says it better than I can. This promo will never be good for me again until the heel actually gets the last word once.
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TomNook posted...

It's literally the name of the Japanese villain from that one Kurt Russell movie.

That's racist.
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Michael Westen
Matthew
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It's kinda backwards in that I feel like the Miz/Cena mixed tag build hasn't been great when I'm usually praising Miz at every opportunity.

I mean I guess in comparison to the other builds it has been but man they drug it out SO MUCH. Like I don't think it actually developed at all beyond "Cena is a phony who doesn't really love you and this is just for publicity" -> *SCREAMING CENA PROMO TALKING ABOUT HOW REAL HE IS* ad nauseam.
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10% HP is kinda spammable depending on how many friends you have. I have quite a lot of them, but I don't expect everyone should have 130 friend slots either.
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+15% MAG is a lot more useful than +15% HP.

How useful either one is largely depends on what characters you plan to use and whether you TM Grind or not, though.
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bng_mmmk posted...

I think it's just a nagging frustration of mine which has built up slowly over the course of seven years as a result of every single scum team being told they were obvious once the game ended.

Like, to be considered a great scum player you have to be in a famously precarious situation and do something earth-shatteringly amazing that is legendary and unforgettable. Anything less than that is always attributed to "bad town".

So, yeah, I'm not exactly among the greats or whatever, just airing a long term general grievance with the community.

Well I mean I said half the scumteam did alright-good! And there weren't really any earth shattering plays this game! It's not "all scum" it's "you dowolf and ulti." But I mean even the three of you had good things. Your attack on IGCD helped clear him pretty well (assuming you were outed as scum first anyway) without actually putting him at risk, and dowolf as I said was very good at occupying town. And I guess Ulti avoided certain death at least. But let's not pretend I just stuck all the players on the wheel and arbitrarily chose you as 'obvscum' either.

Also keep in mind that "bad town" being the general sentiment doesn't necessarily mean people are sore losers. The alternative being that the town is actually bad more often than not actually is a thing that's correct. I mean it's not like I'm being general here I'm being pretty specific on what I felt was done right and wrong here, you know? And keep in mind I didn't even read large chunks of the game-- like you say "it would've been different as a player" and yeah I probably would've beenmore effective at finding evidence because I actually wanted to win and would've tried to dig more.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Red was the other bad read - after I died, you said I was one of the most obvious Town players and after everything you said about me the day before, I thought was just a slip.

100% agree with this read and this is largely why I claimed red was more interested in stroking his ego than trying to win for part of this game <_<
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Well I never said that. You can call neonreaper one of "those people" but I have no horse in this race and hell I'm not even trying to be arrogant I'm just giving thoughts on the game. Like the natural inclination to me saying "you didn't do well" would be to take offense, but it's not "you didn't do well I could've done better" (I'm actually pretty bad as scum) it's "here's why town should've killed you and why town is bad." If anything I'm being a hell of a lot more offensive to the town than you here. You didn't defend against something because you had no need to. That's not a mistake on your part beyond making the undetected mistake to begin with.

Like maybe you're an awesome scumplayer in general but I would say this wasn't one of your better games if that's the case.
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You're dumbing it down because it's not "lots of people suspected you but you didn't get votes"

It's "not enough people suspected you but here's why they should have."

The latter can be pinned on town not finding the evidence. It's hard to give you a lot of credit for when no one really brought it forward. That's like you left the murder weapon on top of the cupboard at the scene of the crime and the cops somehow didn't find it. You weakly pressed for IGCD all day, but then when push comes to shove you followed his vote and didn't really present a strong argument why you went Kanzaris over Ulti. In the absence of a strong argument, opposing the guy you suspected makes a lot more sense. That's not the only thing I saw, but it would be a really strong starting point that no one really capitalized on.

On the flip side of why you can't just base it on suspicion, people suspected Kanzaris but there actually wasn't a lot of substance behind it. Those kinds of suspicions are less on a direct misplay on Kanz's part and more a general "you need to diplomacy a bit better."

Also I think you're overstating how different a game becomes in playing vs observing. Have you never replaced into a game before? It isn't that different! The only difference is you can actually vocalize the suspicions. Which comes down to how convincing you can be vs how convincing they can be-- but if you have post evidence it gets harder and harder for the defender to win that.
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Hey Tom-- you've ran a lot more sims than I ever had. Do you know how existing relationships can evolve in the game? Like if two workers were made friends/best friends/loyalty would they be more likely to become romantically involved or transition to one of the others in that lot? Can workers who dislike each other ever have a change of heart and like each other? Do personality types seem to influence how relationships change? I've always been unsure on how the game mechanics for that work.

Also I'll totally get on pic factory soon I swear.
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bng_mmmk posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

neonreaper posted...

hate to call out turbopuns but like, if you asked the game for their scum teams he would probably be unanimous no?

See, I get this every game.

Every game.

I was the only player out of 19 who did not receive a single vote D1. There was only one day out of five that I received more than zero votes. I was voted twice in the entire game, and it was in the final minutes of a day which ended in a town/town lynch.

I mean I know this town wasn't spectacular, but that's not my fault. My job description as mafia is not "don't get called scum", but "don't get lynched".

One thing to add now that I'm back at a computer:

Posted on the scumboard during the early hours of D2:

My hope is I'll end up being that person who at the end everybody goes "Wow we all knew he was scum but nobody ever lynched him"

It's a thing. There's a fine line between being on people's scum list and actually being voted. I'm the type of scum who flirts with that line constantly.

I mean the problem with this game in particular is dowolf was probably the main player in the game that aggressively pushed for anyone, and he was scum. So not getting votes is really nothing to gloat about here. Only scum that got any votes of note was Ulti. You actually got more than igcd so maybe he's actually king.

Granted, I don't know how past games have been, maybe there have been more active towns you've gotten this rep from. I'm just saying that in the face of those active towns I'm not convinced you wouldn't have been lynched here since you literally never left my scumlist since digesting the end of day 1, and VI can vouch for that. There were certainly reads I was wrong on-- like I thought Tony was more likely scum than not for example-- luckily by the time I would've pushed for it he was dead. I also was pretty sure red was scum for most of the game and was off on that. But none of the nonscum ever went above you on the suspicion hierarchy, which is telling. Even dowolf I had briefly put below red. It's not a random guess I happened to be right on in the end of the game that has me saying it was obvious to me-- it's like, glowing red sign for anyone who was paying attention to the end of day 1. And it was all made off of direct in game evidence, and votes, reasoning behind votes, not things like "gut" so I feel like it would be easy to build the case.

prof was so close to getting something going, but he couldn't be assed to. Maybe you could shake someone actually pushing for you, but no one actually did such so I can't know based on this game. If you wanna point me to an archive of a game you felt was active and you still deftly avoided suspicion despite someone having a good case against you, I'd be happy to glance over it, but there are a lot of players who can avoid suspicion by not saying dumb things, particularly in a game where you've got se7en and eaed being dumb thing lightning rods.

You seem to be implying there's some agenda or existing bias but I haven't actually followed any of these games you're referring to nor did I know you had that rep, so said bias doesn't actually exist here <_<
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Skyridge87 posted...

Present: A character not rostered that week from another team

This wouldn't work as you'd need every other match to resolve.

Also Dual Tech is garbage. When you look at what it actually does, you're getting very little for what you spend on it. Like consider just using the two abilities on the same guy WITHOUT dual tech and there aren't too many situations where it actually helps, and it's complicated. Rikku's Mix is complicated as well but at least it did useful things.
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It's rough when you gotta use 4 slots on support! Rikku and ideally Tidus should let me cut those pure support numbers down though to free up slots for X-Death on these super high damage bosses. Honestly Refia alone could've done the healing there if geared up slightly better but Luka was needed for defensive buffs.

Wondering how viable Agrias as the only White Mage/Tank will be since I have dualcast. Too many things to do not enough slots!
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Finally bested Ifrit in HONORABLE COMBAT. 17k points instead of 6k-- pretty big deal I'll have to try to do this more often.

Turns out the main trick was using Daunting Step EVERY TURN as the risk of it wearing off was too high otherwise and it wearing off was instant death. Kinda don't like that I'm absolutely going to 100% bring Ling for these bosses that are vulnerable to ATK/MAG breaks but what can you do. I think Tidus has a break of some sort? Hopefully! Probably would've been easier if I could've Bushido Freedom'd my party but meh. Had enough survivability with the debuffs up with my 3 support units and Elza + friend gunner were enough damage to plink him down for 500k a turn.

http://i.imgur.com/fJ1Bb78.png

X-Death is sad he couldn't come though :(
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zzzz
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I think I'm the outlier who didn't give a damn about most of the Disney references in general (big fan of Aladdin, big fan of Lion King, liked Little Mermaid, and Hades is fun. That's about it. And to boot Lion King is one of my least favorite worlds-- go figure) but still enjoyed the first two games and Chain of Memories for the gameplay and wacky story. Like yeah the story is kinda contrived and has a lot of dumb dialogue but whatever it's at least interesting.

Later legions of spinoff games kinda dumbed down the gameplay too much (they were all on handhelds so it's kinda understandable) so I could never get into them. That and they all seemed to be about fleshing the world out more than actually progressing the story.

I guess what I'm saying is people who actually like KH as something other than a Disney fanservice vehicle exist, minority as we may be.
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I'd actually be curious what these deep mechanics are. Like I've only ever played the game on Proud and haven't even touched it on normal or critical (that's not even on the original PS2 version is it?), nor have I really read about the system, but I did get pretty good at the combat on Proud and I'm curious how many of the mechanics I was aware of just by playing it.
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I mean I'm not saying it's all nonsense but I'm sure you don't fully believe a lot of it, particularly when you get into Triple H and Cena and Stephanie ass kissing tangents.

That's why it's hard to gauge which parts are actual predictions and which parts are HAIL WWE KING. I don't actually want to know though I'm just sorta talking to myself.
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I'm always a bit confused what proportion of voltch's posts in these topics these days are his genuine thoughts and what proportion are his "WWE COMPLETE GLOBAL SATURATION" character.
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I feel there's a lot more to KH2's combat system than KH1's. Or at the very least, there's a lot more of it you have to actually use, as dodge roll is too much of a crutch in KH1.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/mookieghana/status/847132821504360448

Good Miz stats

Not a coincidence or just facing better competition! Some managers really enhance the act and I feel like Maryse is one of em.

I mean it's not all Maryse but yeah.
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And now... a Fandango triple post. Something I thought I'd never do.

Forgetting whether Fandango as a character was played right in response to it, WWE accelerated its death a ton by acknowledging it. HERP A DERP LOOK AT THIS ON SOCIAL MEDIA!!!

If they'd just let it exist-- maybe use camerawork during his entrance to cut to audience doing it as a subtle nod to it, people would've done it longer. WWE instead was basically saying "yes please keep doing this this awesome!" which as you might expect had the exact opposite effect.

If WWE really wants to kill "What?" that would be the perfect way to do it. Do a bunch of social media segments about it. Maybe have the tron display "WHAT?" when the audience would normally do it. Basically just try to encourage it as best you can-- would kill it dead.
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Oh right I remember what happened.

Fandango acknowledged it in that he started talking about the CROWD doing it. Never actually did it himself, but started saying like... "ahhhh... this section is Fandangoing... this section... is Fandangoing..."

Yeah that's stupid. His approval needed to be more subtle than that-- aka just do the damn dance and act like a babyface. Don't outright acknowledge the fad and encourage it. Rather integrate the fad into your character. Then the audience is doing the same thing the wrestler is doing and it basically becomes cheering for the guy naturally.
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Pretty sure Fandango only ever acknowledged it in a "stop doing this!" context. I certainly don't remember him doing that dance ala Disco Inferno. And if they did it was well after he'd already been milking the "stop doing this!" angle that it probably came off as forced to have him go along with it.
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Fandangoing would've had a much longer shelf life if Fandango embraced it, and not only that doubled down and started doing the stupid Fandangoing dance rather than his actual dance.

He could've been the next Disco Inferno. And you say "well that's not very impressive" but compared to Fandango's career? It definitely is. Lovable midcarders will always have a place.
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bng_mmmk posted...

My feelings about pj this game are exactly the same as my feelings about brohan after Majora's Mask mafia. Yeah, he didn't get lynched, which is obviously a plus. But what exactly makes him the most valuable player on the team?

bng_mmmk posted...

pj did a good job of keeping his head down and following incorrect town, but that isn't something that an entire scum team can get away with all at once. It has to be a mix.

Well, first of all I think you can have every scum do that if they're all good and if every scum is very good at not generating suspicion then town players who just happen to be wrong and do so in a way that isn't graceful will do your work for you-- and this applies doubly so in a game where town is struggling.

Like you say that random scum players drove home these lynches or whatever, but I mean, town wasn't even close to a scum lynch at any point EXCEPT with Ulti as the only people with good reads never pushed for them or built a case. Driving home a lynch on se7en isn't much of a feat when #2 is JC and Se7en was practically carrying a noose around.

I guess what I'm saying is every scum player can be twisted to look good in a game where the town is bad. I don't actually think the best scum player would necessarily always be the one that is least suspicious, but in a game where the town is bad the best scum player is the one that's hardest to determine is scum. Playmaking just isn't really necessary.

I will say that I guess one aspect of dowolf's play in particular I probably underrated is that he was very good at seeming active and vaguely pushing for a lynch, but not doing so in an aggressive enough way that it actually made information come out. So basically it seemed like town was doing something but it was really doing nothing. So he may have actually helped the game seem a lot less productive than it could've been. Like replace him with a less active player and one of the town members with good reads may have actually been compelled to press for one of their suspicions.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Clown Status? Lopen, I thought we were buds. Not cool.

Listen man we are buds but I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm amazed you didn't get lynched for similar reasons to se7en and I think red claiming a scan on you is the only reason you didn't. I feel like half of your posts in the game were "sorry haven't had time to read/post, baby is demanding"
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Also man is that really the next banner urge to get another Karel rising
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Walhart is around Denning tier
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Yeah I can't get into KH1 till Agrabah and really it may be even longer than that till it actually gets good cause that may be my fanboyism for Aladdin at work. Not much longer though-- I know Neverland is legit good cause I was never big on Peter Pan anyway.
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GANON1025 posted...

Lopen posted...

If it makes you feel better I won't be drawing for Ike.

Who WOULD you use your 2078 orbs to draw for

This'll be way more details than you want but I wanted to know myself...

Sword - Joshua Marisa Rutger Owain Chrom
Axe - Valter Hector Vaike Wallace Gregor Benny Charlotte Cherche
Spear - Nephenee Devdan Gatrie Sain Fiora Farina Tana Cynthia
Dagger - Volke
Bow - Shinon Shura Noire Innes
Mage - Tharja Hugh Orochi Lute Soren
Healer - L'Arachel
Other - Naesala Velouria Tiki adult

That would be most of em I'd consider drawing for, in roughly that order. Keep in mind art and VA and how good they are in game would matter, as well as who I have when they come up (hence why Chrom wasn't drawn for)

If you want the abridged list

Tharja Joshua Marisa Volke Nephenee Devdan Hector Vaike Valter would be priority first

But yeah any of the listed could tempt me on the right banner. As well as dupes of characters I have or good inheritance prospects.. which Ike MIGHT be but I'd assume his good stuff will be exclusive.
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Well played
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He probably checked himself into an asylum after considering running b8 mafia
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God I voted the redhead again

gravy I'm blaming you for this

First two options being firmly in the lead is a good result though. It was really only between those two.
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Alright. I think I'm about done discussing this game I didn't play in... but... I'm not done! Power rankings! Sorta. Bold more important than order, but this pretty accurately summarizes how I felt about everyone's play.

Game MVP
pjbasis

Did fairly well and taken from us too soon
IfGodCouldDie
KanzarisKelshen
Shaduln

Would be a lot better if you followed through with your reads harder, or at all
profDEADPOOL
Chaeix
Corrik

Contents rupture under pressure
UltimaterializerX
ChaosTonyV4
masterplum

Obvscum but only to me I guess
bng_mmmk
dowolf

If you would stop looking in the mirror you might have actually seen some scum this game
HanOfTheNekos
red13n

Clown status
eaedwards6400
Se7enthrust

Literally can't remember anything you did
My Immortal
htaeD
Oddity (beyond your role)
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I'm at 1 million myself. Having y'sh already is no trivial task. Basically losing all of last Wednesday due to being super busy that day didn't help, but yeah.
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I didn't think you were obvious either

Granted I kinda started looking at you with a less harsh lens after day 1 because I knew puns was scum and he was pressuring you so that gave you a bit of slack from me, so I'm not sure-- they might've been there. My mid day 1 read was that you were the scum of the two until puns did that vote flopping thing. But that was more of a generic "this guy is making fluffy posts for the sake of it and not actually scumhunting" more than any specific thing you did.

So yeah power rankings you'd def be #2 but unsure how much the puns assist helped. I will say it was weak enough pressure that you hadn't completely fallen off the radar at any point, so it probably didn't help all that much.
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I will say that this is a hard game to gauge for how good scum players are at avoiding suspicion because:

- 2nd day was a gimme lynch
- 3rd day Se7en made all the scum's job easy by basically clowning into a lynch
- 4th day red was hot shotting 'a play' so no one had to really commit to anything
- 5th day was basically scumbus + people not caring much since the game was basically over

But based on the "obv tells" pjbasis was the only one I think did particularly well as the only reason I had any suspicion of him at all was because of his weird ass claim. Now, maybe pressuring him because of said claim may have caused him to stumble a bit but yeah. (which no one did after magus flipped? I mean it's a joke sure but not even a little? Did I miss something?)
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Well if towns like this are the ones you're getting to feel alright about not lynching you I'm not impressed. You basically just had to not say stupid things for this town to not lynch you. I'm not sure anyone ever really tried to build a case on anyone in this game. Kinda annoying to watch after day 1.

Like I think you're good at putting off a non-threatening aura while not looking inactive, but I'm not convinced you'd react well to pressure since there was literally no pressure in this game (after day 1). There are probably good games to review to see how well you'd do if put to the test, but this wasn't it.
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But yeah I really think b8 towns don't use voting records nearly as much as they should.

Mapping voting records to what people say and determining if that vote makes sense is basically the best way to find scum. I think deadpool is literally the only one I saw call puns or dowolf (forget which) weird cause of how they voted day 1 which was very strange to me. Unfortunately deadpool didn't really try that hard to drive the town into that suspicion which sucked, but it was a good read!
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