Lurker > Lopen

Michael Westen
Douglas Quaid
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Well if the other one purged, all the more reason this must reach 500.
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Well not every dude gets off on filming themselves doing someone on their phone so this could be the majority no matter how many guys she's been with.

But then again given Paige's fondness for filming herself it could've been her idea in which case sky's the limit.

Really lost a lot of respect for Paige though. I mean sex tapes are whatever, but doing that to the belt is like, no class-- not because WWE's titles deserve respect necessarily as much as it's a symbol of achievement in something you still presumably enjoy (and given it's an NXT Title it would be weird if she didn't at that point).
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Kamekguy posted...

Base it entirely on his first Pokemon card. Starts by setting two enemies on fire, can turn other abilities into "sets an additional target on fire", adds one week of recharge if they're weekly abilities.

This is my favorite use this one please.
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Record Keeper is still a better game than this one despite me having dropped it.

Just committed the cardinal sin of not providing much incentive to keep going. Not enough upward scaling through non gacha means.
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The Mana Sword posted...

Depending on how HONORABLE you want to be, you can just cast 3 magic spells and hit him with water on turn 1, then run away before he gets a turn. You'll get credit for all the missions.

I'm certainly not so HONORABLE to give up 60 free Lapis. Good tip!

And yeah HGR is inactive one too many collectathon events with uninteresting characters on the banner in a row for him. I can hardly blame him if I hadn't already been down the rabbit hole I would've quit too.
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Oh okay.

And nah I don't even wanna try that strategy. I would die of boredom before Ifrit does. If it ain't a victory from HONORABLE COMBAT I'll just accept not having that 100 Lapis.

... I guess I could friend unit a Green Mage. Not that I see those anywhere.
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Kinda sucks that by the time I get a Minfilia up to a proper level to give him a shot without instantly dying to Radiant Plume his level is gonna be really high. What can ya do.
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Dantezoid posted...

Lopen please forgive me it will never be that bad again i promise

Betrayal can never be forgiven.
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Thank you for tagging me so that I was able to read that bio most excellent (and realize that this topic had returned from the dead {for now})
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Desperate? How so Dick_Sledge?

Did you just randomly reach into the thesaurus for belittling terms without considering relevance or what?
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Certainly might. I'm kinda very offput by how it was implemented. It feels like every unit is going to be basically the same now.
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Sarcasm becomes dull through overuse so I prefer to use it sparingly. If you think something I say might not be sarcasm it's probably not.

But yeah that's just the vibe I get from general outrage against Luster I've seen. Like it's some weird ass rationalization attempt more than suddenly thinking all of this stuff is more weird now and being more vocal about it. Like you guys have been chatting with him for how long. It's not like any of this is out of the ordinary of what I would expect given what I know of the character. You'd expect it to be more spread out.

And really on the topic, I wouldn't watch a video like this but I think like, hunting for sport, which is generally accepted by society, is more messed up than watching this video, which is just animals being violent not torture or whatever it's being presented as here. To be clear I'm not going to judge people that hunt either-- it's just something they do that's not for me. If you wanna watch animals kill each other whatever-- half the crap on Nature is that kinda stuff anyway so it's not like only deviants are into that.
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No.
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Second line wasn't sarcasm dude.
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Steiner posted...

Plus this topic genuinely isn't hating - I posted this in response to luster not understanding everyone else freaking out at the video he posted, to show that most people don't find that acceptable (to laugh at)

Here I thought it was an attempt to convince yourself that Luster is a terrible person to help rationalize treating him like crap.

Maybe that's just most other Discorders though.
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Okay so I'm leaning that everyone who thought inherit skill was a bad idea was right. This doesn't seem like it was thought through at all as a lot of units had stats balanced differently for their skills. Like most units with the tomes that get bonuses for buffs or the brave weapons seem screwed since they had lower stats to compensate for these. Not enough limits on it.
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As for Charizard I don't really think Rage is a very good ability as damage output has never really been Charizard's problem

But I don't really have any ideas that are better either.
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Trigger is needed just to make the ability cleaner imo. Otherwise you'd run into all this timing nonsense and it's less clean to word the Results ability.
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To 500 (maybe)
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Like I would love to be wrong about Cesaro.

All that's been brought up is "Cesaro makes the most of big opportunities in matches" and "Cesaro has gotten over for having good matches"

Which I've never doubted he has good matches. I said that coming in. But you very clearly need to show charisma and a character to reach that top level in WWE. Otherwise you peak at midcarder to upper midcarder, a peak which Cesaro has been at on and off his entire career. And the question is has he done all he can on that front? I don't think he has. The writers haven't given him any favors but clearly some other guys have a better idea of what to do there. (Other guys including Roman, who while far from perfect isn't really bad at all anymore (keep in mind I still think they BOTH should be upper midcarders right now), but it's fun to hate on him)

Hell I think Cesaro has some sort of idea of what to do there too he just doesn't do it very consistently. Like his match with Enzo recently-- terrible match but I mean Cesaro was showing a lot of flair there that he very seldom does in trash talking and mocking Enzo. Why couldn't he do this on the regular when he was actually heel?
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Yeah because a ton of new evidence has been brought forward in this argument, certainly nothing I'd acknowledged when I first started it.
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I wonder if there would be as much outrage about this if there hadn't been that incident between Luster and tabiicat42 like a month ago. Makes ya think.
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Roman is obviously overpushed but that doesn't mean that every guy who is lower on the card is in the wrong spot. Just means Roman is.
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Well I think he's been as popular as his card position would indicate. Not every remotely popular guy can be a main eventer.
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I dunno man I don't think Ziggler and Cesaro ever got that over. Like they were loved midcarders but yeah that was about their peak. And it was certainly never their characters that got the reaction.

Also Ziggler has never actually changed his character that's the problem.
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Wrestling combat maids I bet we could get meisnewbie into this.

Also man I watched a few Power Rangers last night before going to sleep.

I've come to the conclusion that HGR was right and Goldar is the only one who is playing to win. He had some sorta power draining candle that had the essence of the green ranger in it, and his plot was to guard it the whole episode while the Power Rangers fought a dude, and the plan worked. I mean what when does that happen.
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Let's see uh, a crack at it.

Bowser Space (Pre-Battle, Recharge 1) - Once every other week, Bowser may place one of his Bowser Spaces on a pre-selected enemy mercenary's terrain, chosen in secret. This Bowser Space will remain for the rest of the game until its terrain is chosen, giving the target mercenary a copy of the following Trigger which is lost upon Triggering:

Bowser Event (Trigger) - After rosters are revealed, if this mercenary's terrain was chosen, they and every rostered member of their team will show up to the battle 30 seconds late and fatigued, having just competed in a grueling Bowser minigame. This will not cause them to miss Start of Battle Effects, and the enemy team will be aware of this.

Bowser Party (Results) - Bowser never lets anyone get away from one of his Bowser Spaces without paying up. If any team Triggered a Bowser Event this Wartime and did not lose to Bowser's team, you may use this ability against them. Roll one of the following options:

RANDOM SET OF THINGS FROM ORIGINAL ABILITY MINUS THE DEGENERATE REVERSE THING

This ability may be used any number of times per Results, may be used even if Bowser is KOed Possessed or otherwise unable to use abilities for any reason, and if Bowser was rostered this Wartime you may pre-select the option instead.

Just as a start maybe tweak things a bit I haven't thought about recharges or any of that too much, and the effect may be a bit strong. Maybe make the Bowser space expire after some amount of time? But this is what I mean by needing a consistent element to the ability. Maybe give it an upgrade to let him get an effect even if the target's terrain isn't chosen if Bowser is rostered I don't know.
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The best part of the ability right now to me is "at least it's an upgrade you can just ignore" so not sure that's an improvement.

Not sure why you're so against Bowser Shell. The amount of improvement this ability needs to even get on par with that (in terms of strength and also being balanced) doesn't seem worth the effort. Like even now your approach to buffing it is rather strange-- reverse minigame is like broken. Putting a broken option on it is kind of a weird way to fix it. Kamek's fix doesn't really help as it hinges the whole match on a roster selection mindgame if they don't remove Bowser as they can either choose to roster a single character that loses to Bowser in hopes you roster Bowser, or roster a normal team that'd beat yours and hope you don't roster him. Not as broken but just as degenerate.

I think Kamek's other idea of placing it on a terrain is closer to the right idea for fixing it. Like... place it on an enemy terrain in secret, if the terrain is chosen, it does something. But then when doing it actually make it do something relevant to the match like screw with the roster or an ability use or I dunno-- maybe ALSO do some random results thing if the space is landed on at that point since it's just gravy, but the point is the base ability must have some degree of consistency in what you're meaning to achieve when using it, and it just doesn't have that right now.
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Buffing the options doesn't really make the ability good unless you overbuff them-- better to just nerf them and reduce the recharge to like nothing if you do that.

The problem has always been that optimal situation for each of the options to be rolled are all different. You didn't actually change that.
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I feel like the change to Bowser Party is a sign that none of the feedback is even being listened to here-- what was even changed on that one week of recharge? (and the dumb reverse minigame option)
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Edge and Christian are so awesome they deserve two slots.
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I'm not saying everyone's on even footing. Obviously Cesaro yodeling was dumb-- hell Cesaro turning heel at all at the time was dumb. I'm just saying that to me it's very clear who is making the most out of the interaction with the writers and who is not. And Cesaro is unfortunately in the not category. Shame cause I really like the guy and know he can deliver when in bigger matches, so it'd be nice if he was pushed more, but eh.
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So let's see by my tally to name a few... Akira Tozawa, AJ Styles, Neville, Braun Strowman, Luke Harper and The Miz all have Vince in their pocket or are proven commodities.

Cesaro, Sheamus, Ziiggler, Rollins, Ambrose, and Reigns, not so much.

This about accurate or no?
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You're saying "it's Vince" that creates the atmosphere

I'm saying "how come some wrestlers manage to be compelling in this atmosphere and others don't"

"It's Vince" doesn't work as an answer for that. Nor does "it's the writers."
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I disagree with either Cesaro having character or AJ having neither. Not sure which right now.
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Like basically this whole argument is trying to blame the writers for everything, despite plenty of wrestlers not having the same problems when facing these same writers. Like the writers are too dumb to give Ziggler an actual heel character or Dean Ambrose a character that makes sense for every situation, or Cesaro a character at all, but they create heel AJ Styles out of what was apparently nothing since his face persona apparently had no character?

So are the writers doing everything for characterizing these guys or are the writers doing very little for characterizing them? And if they're doing everything why aren't they doing a better job with most of their main event draws like Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns compared to AJ Styles or even midcarders like The Miz. Just doesn't make much sense!
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Cesaro had no character as a face either! Didn't seem to help him!
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And I'd call you wrong if for no other reason than I've seen these guys do the same thing their whole career.

All the big stars have had a few major character changes before they were a big deal. Heel Cesaro is the same as Face Cesaro - Cesaro Swing. Heel Ziggler is the same as Face Ziggler. You can say "oh they're scripted that way" but then how does AJ Styles do so well while being very distinct from his face persona after turning heel?
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Panthera posted...

Maybe, but at the same time when you see so many examples of guys who do go the extra mile getting no recognition for it (and maybe even outright scorn), it's bound to be bad for morale. Like if I'm in the WWE right now why should I bother to come up with anything, work hard, connect with the crowd? I know it's not going to get me anywhere that playing along at the bare minimum level will. It might even get me less screen time if the higher ups are worried it might prevent me from being used to properly get their guys over.

This should only apply if you're on the top rung already. If you're already among the top guys in the company, yeah, just coast to some extent. Hell this kinda applies to Dean Ambrose so I can forgive him a bit more-- though really he's sorta dropped off. And the funny thing is I think he did because he coasted big time when he had the title. It's kind of a weird environment where you need to go hard on things to convince people you're better than you're being treated, but not too hard otherwise the writers take it as a slight.

But if you're a Cesaro or a Ziggler? Absolutely you wanna try as hard as you can with what you're given, and some of what you're not, unless you wanna be midcard for life.
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Being told to act one way in the script doesn't mean they're rock solid in their convictions with this. The writers are to a large extent "coasting" too. They're not giving him wisecracks because they think "no he shouldn't be serious here" as much as "we're defaulting to his usual behavior because we're bad at our job" but if Ambrose comes up to them and says "you know, I really don't think this works here" there's imo a better than minimal chance that they'd say "you know what? you're right."
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I think Neville is doing about as well as he can with what's been given which is all you can ask.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he pushed to turn heel since his character before that was super generic.
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Like uh, Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose are good examples of what I mean.

They're both playing characters that are pretty natural to them and they enjoy them, but I feel like they're just coasting on that. Like Ziggler is getting the opportunity to do something cool by being a heel, but he's not being mandated to change anything up so he's basically just being face Ziggler who attacks dudes with chairs. Which sucks. But if he tried to actually change his character a bit to fit the turn he might actually get over.

Ambrose is goofy crazy guy and doesn't ever really turn that off ever, even when it'd make sense to do so. And I doubt if he said "hey maybe I shouldn't wisecrack here when I really hate this dude" he'd get a huge argument.

I just feel like wrestling like with a lot of jobs is probably more than just doing what you're told-- there's something to be said for trying harder to really knock something out of the park, or pitching new ideas, that isn't explicitly in the job description, that a lot of today's stars seem to lack.
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Well see I think the bigger problem is more that when guys are told "no" to something they want to do they don't really try something else. Like yeah turning Cesaro heel, and subsequently telling him to stop swinging, is bad, but not necessarily the end of the world.

Basically I see wrestling as a craft where the best approach is to keep throwing things at a wall and see what sticks. Guys nowadays seem more content to just hit an arbitrary resting point and coast on that. That's partially the writers but I wouldn't put it all on them-- particularly when a lot of guys seem similar to characters they've played in other organizations or their actual personality.
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Panthera posted...

I mean even when guys have characters they get it taken away, whether it was their idea to begin with or not it's probably not theirs to just scrap the thing that makes people care about them. There's a pretty clear pattern where even if a guy has something that takes off, he stops being allowed to do it, or gets taken off TV, or otherwise is pretty much not given the opportunity to run with it.

On the one hand, Damien Sandow absolutely killing every terrible gimmick he was given and being rewarded with a release is a good sign there's some truth to this and that the writers probably do exert more control than they used to.

On the other hand I really do feel like there are a lot more guys phoning it in now. There are a lot of things, subtle or not, that you can do to give yourself character. I mean Akira Tozawa is more over than most of the cruiserweight division largely because he yells like an insane person all the time in his matches. I doubt showing some personality during matches would be something that would actively be worked against, and this can bleed into interviews, whatever. Getting bad writing forced on you will always be bad but the right delivery can save a lot of bad dialogue.
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Steve Austin would probably have finished his career as the Ringmaster if he had a similar mentality to this generation
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Yeah 2010 as least favorite makes a lot of sense if you like crowded rings as that one was pretty damn sparse. It was a little thin even for me and I generally like less in the ring. 2000 I probably would've been more okay with if Kai En Tai and the Mean Street Posse hadn't run in like 15 times but I may have been a bit harsh on it as that aside it wasn't all that bad-- I think having just watched 1999 my tolerance for buffoonery was really low.
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I have one day left of WWE Network and no desire to renew so no PPV series is next

That and I wouldn't really be interested in watching most of em. If Survivor Series had remained pure maybe.
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Man you're just gonna watch em all aren't ya TUM. Honestly how you feel about 2014-2016 will largely depend on how much certain things irritate you.

And yeah I'll probably watch the CHIKARA rumbles soon. I probably know like 20% of the roster if I'm lucky but still should be fun.

Top 8 Non Rumble matches from the Royal Rumble PPVs. Would recommend watching all of these over any of the Rumbles except like 1992 and 2004. Maybe the ones in the second tier for the lower ones on the list, but still great matches here. (picked eight cause these are the main matches that stuck with me as great, not cause I really like the number eight)

1. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena vs Seth Rollins (2015)
2. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (2003)
3. Chris Jericho vs The Rock (2002)
4. John Cena vs AJ Styles (2017)
5. Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty (1993)
6. John Cena vs Umaga (2007)
7. Diesel vs Bret Hart (1995)
8. The Rockers vs The Orient Express (1991)
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Karel's definitely a bit tempting to draw for. Shame nothing else on the banner really interests me though. On the plus side he's the only red on it. Would've preferred to take a crack at getting Marisa or Joshua first though.

I'll probably wait till close to when the next banner drops and draw a bit if nothing seems too promising.
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