Lurker > Lopen

I'd be surprised if it never happened again. I think all that's necessary for it to start happening is for TNA to actually start running a competent product. Which I do think they have the talent to do.

But yeah I think basically the key to turning him is to make a dominating heel force that people tune in to see. In fact I think that's the beauty of Cena and why it would be unique from the other dominating heel forces in that he wouldn't be a stable-- you can pretty much make him run the show alone because of his character. It's seriously like having Superman turn bad. Superman wouldn't need a band of underlings to rule the world in the comics if he went bad-- he could just dominate everything because he's freaking Superman.

And the point of building Cena is to get people to start watching the show again-- then every hero he crushes draws people in more, and every hero that gets crushed gets built in the process. Cena is a huge bad guy that everyone wants to see drop and so more people tune in. That's the key.

Also the Immortal storyline didn't accomplish anything because it wasn't good. If it felt like something that wasn't a desperate rehash of 90s and actually had a progression that made any sense at all, it could've worked fine!

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

GANON

Sun of nothing

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

From: JaKyL25 | #338
And my point is that those compelling storylines meant very little as far as truly turning Punk into a draw. The part that built him up was that his opponent was John Cena.

The question here is which gets Punk closer to where he is now? Punk raging against the machine and having his opponent be Randy Orton? (Let's try and forget that the storyline makes a lot less sense with Orton than Cena)
Or Punk being booked in a series of matches against Cena where he comes off as a threat, then wins the championship, leaving Punk bashing the company and walking out and all that stuff out.

I think it's very easily the former. You seem to be implying it's the latter.

And yeah Raw 2004 doesn't touch the attitude era as far as storylines go. SD 2002 if anything helps again prove that storylines matter because that was mostly match/talent driven and the product was still declining there.

From: SmartMuffin | #339
To build him into what? For what purpose? He's already built.

To build him into a star that can carry the company in a boom period rather than a start that can carry the company when it's on the downswing. Cena's the best in the company, but he's not a Rock or an Austin or a Hulk Hogan right now. Cena is a big fish in a small pond right now-- if the fish gets even bigger the pond will get bigger to accommodate it, if that makes sense.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Leon pulling the plug on this for FFVIII would be too delicious for me to be disappointed.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Vega
Hakumen

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

So yeah I guess we sorta agree. Because uhh, I do think big stars are important, but I think compelling TV is what makes them (and keeps them) stars. You on the other hand seem to think that stars get made by good booking and then the stars will drive the product by themselves. I personally think that the gradual decline of 1999-2001 WWE and 1998 on WCW will tell you otherwise-- cause it's not like their stars all just packed up and left at that point.

And honestly couldn't the point of turning Cena heel be to build Cena, too? Like Smuffin said the guy's young and while the dude's the top dog in the company but the top dog in the company of today doesn't touch the top dog of the company of ten years ago as far as reaction goes.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Creating big stars is a biproduct of creating a compelling product is what I'm saying. The reason Rock and Austin were as big as they were was because the storylines being good allowed them to be so. You toss Rock and Austin in today's product as new blood, I don't think they live up to their late 90s legacies.

In 2011, CM Punk was on his way-- CM Punk in 2011 if anything plays to my point and proves that compelling storylines will build guys up very effectively because the dude's reactions after just a couple of months of a storyline people really liked put him among the top dogs of the company. You can say Punk's skills did it too, but Punk's always had skills, never was able to get a reaction close to that. But they pulled the plug prematurely so he got stuck where he is now rather than becoming a mega star.

SD 2009 was not compelling programming. It had a lot of good matches in a vacuum, but storylines? Nah.

Don't recall the big sell of Raw 2004 or SD 2002 offhand which is probably enough for me to say that they're not as compelling as you think they are.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

That's not what I'm saying. I agree with you that the storyline was practically designed for Sting to win there-- but it's not because the idea was to put Sting over as a star, the point was to end the storyline at that point because it wasn't feasible to build up another entity to the amount you built Sting up to take the nWo down before the nWo got stale. And you should've been able to see that coming considering Sting was built up for a year and a half. I suppose with an alternate approach to Bill Goldberg you could've had him do it at the next Starrcade but I think that's pushing it and they should've known better. We'll never know cause they already had the nWo implode at that point so there was no more juggernaut to take down, and it wasn't satisfying from the storyline perspective because the villain never got taken down by a hero.

What I'm saying is that whether Sting wins or loses most of him being built as a star was priming him to take the nWo down. Him actually going through and doing that doesn't really help him much. Do you think if Sting beats the nWo that suddenly he gets more cheers in 1998 than he did in 1997? I don't. The journey is what built him, the end is what you do depending on how the storyline is going creatively and how long it's been going with some foresight.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Man I disagree with that entirely. The end for pro wrestling is to create a compelling product. It's not about "building stars" just for the sake of building stars. The reason Sting should've beaten the nWo is not to put Sting over-- the dude was already as over as he needed to be-- it's because the nWo had run its course as a storyline and something new had to happen for the storylines to not become stale.

If you create good storylines everyone in the company gets bigger reactions just because the fans are more into it. It's why in the attitude era random midcard guys like Val Venis were getting bigger reactions than like 85% of the roster gets now.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

I just explained that in the post? Use in storylines. Cena as a character doesn't really make for compelling storylines unless the other guy feeds him everything-- Cena as a superman gone bad ruling the show is just good stuff.

Also the reaction wouldn't be the exact same.. Cena gets a mixed reaction leaning face now he'd get a mixed reaction strongly leaning heel then, cause as I said I expect the people who are chanting "Let's go Cena!!" flop over easier than the "Cena sucks!" chants. Like a lot easier. In fact I'm not entirely convinced most of the "Cena sucks!" people even turn over since I'm not really sure Cena's character being stale is their whole issue with him.

I was just saying that in principle a mixed reaction for the top heel isn't necessarily bad.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

SamurYi
Full Metal
Djinn
Rugged

I actually prefer Dreadknight as a look but it just doesn't fit Garen at all. Some dark knight yelling DEMACIAAAAAA!!!! is just kinda silly. If he was a premium skin and had his own sound set he could be cool.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

There's nothing wrong with a mixed reaction for the top heel. The nWo had a mixed reaction but they were still an excellent villain. All that matters is that most people hate him (easy to do, wrestling fans are fickle-- and I see the "let's go Cena" half flip flopping easier than the "Cena sucks" half) and that he's dominant and that he's fresh. It's not about creating a force that gets universally booed it's about creating a dominating heel presence that the WWE hasn't had in years, which is a big part of the reason their storylines have not been very compelling. If you look through all the great storylines you're going to find a dominating villain at the helm, and while guys like Kane and Mark Henry have looked strong as wrestlers at times, they haven't really controlled the landscape of the show like John Cena could.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Do I read this topic out of some masochistic urge or do I try and forget it exists.

Probably the thought crossing the mind of most of the readers I'd imagine.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Now the proud owner of a vintage E&C 5 second pose t-shirt. I don't generally get wrestling shirts but it's actually stylistically solid and I've always been a huge E&C fan.

Thanks again edwards!

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Well that's a bit more acceptable, Kakashi. I dislike that "good" is 8 and "bad" is 4. It says to me that your symmetry point is at 6.

This is a proper scale take note heathens

10 GODLIKE
9 excellent
8 very good
7 good
6 decent
5 average
4 mediocre
3 bad
2 very bad
1 terrible
0 Rinoa

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Well 6 or below is bad for school because they want you to know everything, ideally. I think that's fair. If 50% knowledge of your curriculum was a passing grade that'd be kinda silly.

But school isn't "rating" something either. No point in condensing the scale like that for a rating.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

You are the cancer that infests our rating topics, Kakashi, you! Half the scale for varying degrees of failure... the only reason the school system is like that is because the idea is to encourage people to get a high percentage of the knowledge in the classes!

Gosh. By golly.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Ironically I gave her like a 3 or a 3.5 IIRC since I don't really hate her. She was a slight annoyance as I recall, not much more than that.

But yeah point is I'm probably one of the people that hate her the least and still had one of the lower grades.

Cause people are bad at rating. Bad character 5/10.

Okay I think I'm done going off on this tangent.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Granted I realize it's not entirely fair to expect 5 to be the average score because most of these characters do have a following and are regarded as good to some degree but... when a reviled character like Eiko only nets a 4.5 you know something's up!

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Actually a 0 only has more mathematical effect on the score if the character's score to that point is above a 5. If it's below a 5 the 10 will alter the score more.

Which happens pretty much every time because I can only assume people's perceptions on ratings are skewed by the American grading system.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

It's only more detrimental to the score because most B8ers are idiots and rate an average character as a 7.

Did I say idiots? I meant idiots.

Er... sorry... how about "people who don't get how an out of 10 rating system works"... there, now we're PC.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Hey GANON do you play on the PS3 or what.

It might be fresh to play UMVC3 against someone that isn't numbers once in a while.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Hey edwards check your messages dammit

Want MY PRIZE.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Just treading water with cards right now because I'm slacking with the holiday break-- learned behavior over many years can't break it so easily.

I'll probably start being productive again come the 2nd.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

That being said if we analyzed everyone's voting patterns I'm sure most people wouldn't use the scale very effectively.

Only instead of too many 0s it'd be too many 9s and 10s.

The Do You Like This Character voting history is really the only reason I'd consider dqing.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Yeah I wouldn't count them if I was running it just because of the sheer amounts of 0s he threw out and his history in DYLTC. But he certainly doesn't vote everything 0. I think his scale goes 0, 7, 8, 9, 10 or something.

Maybe I will be running it at some point given how often ownership of this topic changes.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

cyan1001's votes are dubious in nature as far as how honest they are (given he literally votes on every day of Do You Like This Character) but he sorta had a thing where a video was posted confirming he was a person or something.

I mean that only really proves that the guy who is suspected to be his main has a brother that is willing to claim to have a GameFAQs account to cover for him but whatever. There's reasonable doubt that he's an alt at least.

Anyway

7.8 for Laguna

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

And uh, if you didn't get it, my main point of skepticism is that you're bringing up your relative KDA as evidence that you were doing well at all. I'm not saying 1/2 is a bad score for anyone on its own-- I'm saying that it says nothing about how well you were playing given that you were using Cho'gath.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

20 minute laning phase with two turrets down huh

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Well that reaction to any possible criticism certainly reinforces my perception of you being "typical bad pub" I'll say that much.

I'm just saying if your first defense to doing well is KDA and CS as a non-carry and the KDA is still negative it's hard to think you have a firm grasp on what good play actually is.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Yeah I didn't really watch WM or anything, I just kinda automatically assume it "should be" one of the better PPVs and I recall the card looking pretty decent too. I remember mixed reactions to HHH/Taker but yeah.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Your score being less bad is pretty irrelevant as Cho when it comes to whether you were playing well or not. Particularly because of his role and how he works. If you were a squishy carry I might be more inclined to believe you no questions asked, but yeah... just thinking about this.

Causes for high CS:
- stupidly farming when your team needs you

Causes for high K/D ratio:
- not actually playing properly as a tank-- no initiating or taking point
- not being present for teamfights/ganks when you should've been (coincides with high CS)
- running away during teamfights before you need to so your higher DPS teammates take damage prematurely and your team loses teamfights as a result
- your team gets crushed in a teamfight and you survive by merit of being ignored/having high hp

I'm not saying you necessarily were a big part of the reason your team lost but you sound a lot like a "vintage bad pub" with the way you're describing the events of the game and by what you consider to be the indicator of how well you were playing.

I would at least consider that you may have been able to play better there and try to improve what you screwed up. Obviously there are times you get a bad beat with pubs but complaining about it doesn't serve much purpose.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Though wow I'm kinda surprised to see Jakyl having Mania at like 20. I wasn't aware that the reaction to that PPV was quite that negative.

Or it could just be that Jakyl is an outlier there.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Money in the Bank was literally the only PPV I could think of as standing out at all.

I mean I hardly watch any PPVs at all but that was the only one I actually bothered to watch any of (Wrestlemania included) so that's worth best PPV of the year mention from me, specially given the huge main event match was actually quite good.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

If you'd lost an inhibitor yeah you'd be justified in surrendering. Otherwise I've seen worse scores turn around.

Given that you started the surrender vote though I'd guess you were actually the worst player and blaming the Yi because he was the second worst.

At least that's what I observe as the usual in games where only one player wants to surrender.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Whoops. Sorry Seymour.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

foolmo droppin the mad truths on this topic

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Terrain to me says that this fight is going to start suddenly due to illusions distracting both sides. Basically it's gonna be a match of who can dump the damage on quicker because I see this as both sides coming in surprised when the fight starts (or it being a crap shoot who gets the jump on the other due to no sort of recon spells from either side)

Luis wins this due to a rain of lava and electrical bolts having higher sudden damage output than Some_Character who has no great one part nukes. Hand of Light + transform light is good but Luis can get the job done with one spell, not two. He's also more likely to survive if SomeC gets the jump on him due to accuracy control than SomeC is to survive if Luis gets the jump on him.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Seymour
Erk

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Ilya
Rin

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

From: saveus_Maria | #187
It's probably not even in my top 3 if we're talking about for the year, but then again I watched a lot more stuff. For this season it was #2 though. If I did something for the year it'd be like. . .

Yeah that was pretty much my point there. I've only watched 5 anime from this year all year so #1 isn't too prestigious or anything. If you expand it to what I watched from any year this year then I've got like double that, and Un-go is 2 or 3, but yeah. This year was pretty weak for quality of anime I bothered to watch.

Though they were all better than Madoka LOL

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Dibiase getting a big face pop is pretty WTF to me too!

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Update later tonight.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Oh I also had R-Truth vs Little Jimmy as one of the top 3 feuds of the year but uhhh I kinda just made a joke out of that category because this year has been pretty weak for feuds I think

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Fun fact Lopen's ballot had R-Truth as #1 most improved, Bully Ray for #3 most improved, and Winter's theme as best theme of the year.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Well I know I was crying my eyes out out of empathy for that poor INCEPTION.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Jeez where do you get the sales anyway. I can't find them on the Internet easily and the latest 360 interface is a mess. Oh never mind it's that big icon in the middle of the games section lol.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE AN ICON YOU CAN CLICK.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

No seriously who even likes Nosepass.

Then again my favorite Pokemon is Caterpie so maybe I shouldn't be talking.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

This topic is pretty obviously a rhetorical question. If you think otherwise well don't say I called you an anti-social jerkoff or anything but... well... just don't say I called you that in particular.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!

Perhaps you can go into basic addition and subtraction next. I would think teaching that more likely to actually enlighten an Internet user these days.

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I tried to have a fierce rivalry with SuperNiceDog, but he made me look worse than a GameFAQs Contest!