Lurker > Lopen

I blame the community not the host

Enjoy your ban Isquen. I thought it was clever at least.

To sum up my scum game

Solo lynch our RB
Try to get heat off hb, unsuccessfully, undoing all good will from lynching our rb
One for one a guy who looked sketchy anyway

Like what is the endgame to a psychic claim. Do you think I need to 1 for 1? What if two powers reveal and I contradict both? The risk/reward is exceedingly poor.

I sent poppy 2 shovels

Losing to an imbalanced setup is a cop out. Solve. Why do I make that fake claim as scum or Roshan. Think.

Anyway if Mzero wants to lynch me too we're lost

You are all cowards

Red is the worst. Such braindead play for someone who idles the first few days. I thought you solved games if allowed to live.

Pass it to me I'll use it

UltimaterializerX posted...

If Red checks out, then Corrik died targeting Ninja. That's an easy one. And assuming 10/4/1, that would mean a scum team of you + MZero with Ninja as Rosh

Corrik died targeting Ninja
Ninja is Rosh

????

Anyone who is town consider this

Assume this setup is legitimately 3/2/1 right now

We're already screwed even if we lynch scum. Say you lynch me "correctly" removing one of the scum. Night kill happens, now it's 2/1/1. Town literally can't win if I'm not right.

You have to, if you want any chance to win, give me the benefit of a doubt and say maybe I'm not just insane and there is some merit to anything I'm saying here. Please, do your due diligence. Look all across the game-- see who I could potentially be scum with, see why Ctes would possibly be scum with a fake flip ability instead of town. If you're dead certain I'm scum, try to find my scummate, and see if anything makes sense to you that isn't Ulti.

Red as a scum role doesn't make sense, you can throw him out.
MZero went hard on both Sultan and Hb, and his money making ability is confirmed due to purchases made
I went super hard on Poppy day 2, which makes almost no sense if I'm scum trying to divert the lynch off scum.

It basically has to be SBell or Ulti.

Also consider Corrik's target n1. He died targeting SOMEONE. There are only 5 choices on the board right now-- it's not hard to figure it out.

We have the chance to win. If only red and Poppy were killed and I had Chang (killed by Roshan who thought I was his scummate), Kirby (killed by scum so he couldn't help confirm me with same time post), and MZero as my soldiers, there would be a chance

Anyway I'm cool. We lose, it was a broken setup that I called.

And red

You were one of the people who saw some logic to following corrik's hint, that corrik is not the type to not leave a hint

He didn't hint me, Sbell, or MZero. That much is very obvious.
He probably didn't hint Poppy due to Kirby's argument about him not lynching scum. I think that has real weight.
He hinted Thanos. Thanos, the one person claiming a legitimate conventional power role that isn't being argued to be a fake flip. The one person who has been begging town to confirm him, all game. The person who fakeclaimed for literally no reason on like day 2.

Listen red

I know you're not going to believe this because "this role is banned" whatever. Even though the host said "no complaining about the setup"

And man I get it. I came THIS CLOSE to modkilling myself when I saw that flip. But it felt like poor form. And then I started to think about it, and man, I thought the game setup was actually kinda clever. We've got hints that the watcher isn't real through a lot of setup clues, and an item that lets us dig up the truth. It's kinda cool actually. Like if you have to have a doppelganger in the setup this is the way to do it.

And like I know, to you no amount of rationalizing will work it, but can you at least humor me and find my scummate and lynch them. Me being Roshan makes literally no sense. And then tonight, we will use our shovels and dig up Ctes. We have 3, so even if one of us gets killed we will dig it up.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I have to ask in case I die - is there any possible world where ctes and Lopen are both town?

This is another thing here

This to me is a slip

In what possible world do you humor we are both town. This feels like a player who wants to put the seeds for being legitimately shocked later when scum ctes shows as tracker and Lopen is mislynched "OOPS SORRY GUYS"

So then there's also Ctes's play yesterday. Look at how much he hammed up that he was town blah blah blah.

Would an actual town miller watcher be so concerned with this? It's a 1 for 1 when town is up, you caught a scum good deal, accept your death. His reaction to being lynched is absurd too-- like town has never been lynched due to a scum fakeclaim, comparing it to the worst mislynches of all time. I have no idea why he'd do this so much unless it was imperative that town believe he was actually town and not consider the use of a doppelgangerlike role.

Lopen posted...

Note I don't think he actually was watcher, but it kinda makes sense that

But it kinda makes sense that he wouldn't have a good reason to scan me as town, but could as scum. He also may have been legitimately ninja watcher when/if we see his real flip so there is that to consider.

So anyway, I think we need for my theory to work to start with why I was so sure Ctes was scum and that my role wasn't defective (I know that now, but before my result of 1 last night which was received just before the day went up) or redirected in some way (scum redirector was possible, but I think they'd need to target me anyway).

The first is just examining Ctes's play up until the fake claim. I said it yesterday, but it still applies. He didn't play the game like a watcher. He played the game like a scum who planned to fakeclaim miller watcher. Sitting on the fact that he's miller in the face of two miller claims, His choice of watcher targets doesn't make sense either. In fact there is a particularly damning post from MZero yesterday against him as he tries to justify his watches.

MZero posted...

I also don't feel like watching Lopen from a Town perspective N2 makes sense, but it does from a scum perspective. N1 would have been trying to catch protection, N2 trying to catch a scanning role. Also, poison on a town role when I'm basically poison doctor is weird.

Note I don't think he actually was watcher, but it kinda makes sense that

The second is setup. We are given a lot of hints that perhaps a miller watcher is out of place. The fact that Chang can upgrade into a town watcher is a big one. The fact that there are 3 millers is another. The other hint is there are no particularly useful power roles in the game.

Now if we were all vanilla or had junky roles, that would make any scum fakeclaim that has a non-, power role completely exposed in a mass claim/late game situation where town figures out we're all crap unless town figures out that the miller watcher is in fact not a watcher. So for proper balance, you almost need scum to have a tool to fake a power role flip unless you tell them it's an all vanilla game (which is kinda boring, it's more exciting if they need to figure it out too)

Obellisk posted...

discussing hypotheticals you've opened up is not humoring you are right

He said if you're right and that broken role exists in the setup no harm in losing to me that seems like humoring I'm right

Ulti humoring that I'm right it's a perspective slip by the way

If you all think I'm right about Roshan getting a kill every other day we could nl too. Then we get a night phase to dig up Ctes and expose his deception

I would much rather bus my scummate ulti though so we don't have to take a night kill tonight

ulti I know you want to look like town but against Roshan you will lose so maybe you should try and Lynch Roshan instead

So here are some things to consider

Does my claim make sense to fake claim in a mass that I pushed for
Ask yourself that for the case of me being Roshan especially

Now consider me being scum. Also consider ulti being town. Who is my scum mate if not ulti. Poppy liked this pairing math stop so you should try and figure out a scum mate that makes sense for me if it's not ulti

3/1/1/1 Doesn't make sense from a flavor perspective

Anyway like sure maybe there's two scum in the game. I understand you have less information than me you don't know my role is what it is because only I have the PM. But Think if I'm not bussing my scum mate who is my scum mate.

I completely agree but my interpretation was always that it was Doc save. But that might just be because my item gave me two uses so I had a lot of time to digest the meaning.

Health regeneration items I meant to say.

So if the region items are actually dock saves like I thought we have a bunch of 200 GPDoc saves in the shop. Keep in mind Ulti isn't even real protection he doesn't stop kills

I would like to give the shovels to Poppy and red. Mzero can use his stack of money to buy the Blinky dagger or something to become hard to night kill

Also Town members need to not use their day action because they need to pass the shovels I bought. I can only give to one person but I can give as many items as I want so I'm going to get someone two shovels which they will give one more shovel to someone else

I will later when I have time but I've already talked about it at length and it's more than just following Corrik vote

Obellisk posted...

you also "thought" spending 2 days ok corriks thoughts was smart mafia, so there's that.

Ulti is scum. It's tough being the smartest one in the room but oh well

##Vote: Ulti

So I have two shovels to give away. We can use them to dig up ctes night phase. Are there any Town members who would not like a shovel.

It's 4/1/1

I think Roshan kills every other day so if we get the scum today this is very winnable

Poppy Mzero red town
Ulti scum
Sbell rosh

This I'm sure of

Now the plus here is if we Lynch scum here today scum will no longer have a night kill and thus we can waste a lunch tomorrow Roshan checking me before we Lynch sbell

In a sense it's to kind of dummy proof the game from Lynch all power roles as well to give the scum team some fake claims as well. I also think it's the only purpose of this shovel item. I am certain that sBell is Roshan and ulti is scum right now. Sbell will win the tie as he is unkillable so he doesn't care.

The hints I think were supposed to use are the fact that there are no other power roles in the game there are three Millers and that someone can upgrade into a watcher.

It's not quite super banned red. I think this role was forced to be Miller Watcher I don't think it was a doppelganger

Note that changs flip showed he is indeed Watcher on upgrade and I think that's one of the hints we're supposed to use to determine that ctes's role doesn't exist

I was going to wait to stp but it has no point now with Kirby dead

I was visited by 1 last night. Confirms my role is sane and doesn't just give non results each day.

Well I had that pretyped but with two nk now we lose even if ctes was scum

Two things. I can't fully elaborate for a few hours but please do not end the day until I've had time to elaborate.
1. I am town. Everything I said yesterday was the truth. My role results were as said and I reread my role PM and Ctes's flip to confirm there wasn't some sneaky sneaky gotcha interaction.
2. I believe Ctes was scum and he has a role or item that makes his role appear as Miller Watcher on flip. It's very lame but role madness. I bought some shovels last night to possibly uncover the mystery if it's item linked, which I will pass out today to willing trusted diggers, but I couldn't dig last night and it can only be done at night so yeah.
I have some theories to share to convince you guys of number two if you let me live a few hours. But I am willing to be lynched today because I'm a natural process of elimination lynch at this point and I think there are only two anti-town roles left. Why I want some time to convince you in spite of this is because we're both going to show up as town so knowing which town flip is legitimate makes the game easier to solve. Also in case my logic makes no sense then we probably shouldn't lynch me otherwise we'll lose. Not that I'll be able to convince anyone haha.

Like the analogy of comparing Ramza to Captain Toad would be more accurate if it was like Yoshi instead and saying Super Mario World 2 doesn't count as a mainline Mario game cause of the Yoshi's Island subtitle

No one would even doubt Final Fantasy Tactics was a mainline game if it had a number there instead of tactics

Can't say the same of Crisis Core or Final Fantasy 10-2 or whatever else

Rikku

Googled "japanese strategy rpg capture gangs" because I felt I'd heard of something similar and found this which may or may not be what you're thinking of

https://www.rpgsite.net/news/12803-banchou-tactics-combines-strategy-rpg-tactics-with-japanese-high-school-delinquents

Diablo

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Yeah, it was more akin to both Batman v. Superman and Civil War getting criticized for their respective villains having nonsensical evil plans. BvS probably became more infamous for it because of how Luthor's bombastic personality stands out from the movie's otherwise grimdark tone (also not entirely on topic but I unironically think Eisenberg made a better Lex Luthor in The Social Network than when he actually played Lex).

Yeah, I'm still amazed by how much of a slow-motion trainwreck the rival DCEU has become. Combine that with Sony's meme-worthy efforts to make its own Spider-Man cinematic universe and it seems like MCU movies will continue to do well if only to provide people with their superhero fix. Drat.

See I don't really agree with that.

So I think Lex and Zemo both could have been replaced outright if they wrote the story just a little different.

But that's where the similarities end.

Why I find Lex a little less plot devicey is because they're at least using a character with defined character traits and motivations where it could fit it into his motivations and be played that way. Lex's presence itself also adds something to the movie, for better or worse depending on how you feel about the idea of Eisenberg as Lex. Zemo on the other hand, not really a well defined character in my opinion, and just sort of exists entirely as an excuse for the heroes to fight over the Sokovia Accords. You could remove him from the movie entirely and I think it would be virtually identical-- Bucky only needs something to put the frieght car into motion and that could be literally anything, after that point the movie can more or less play out the same as long as you have Tony see that footage somehow.

But yeah imo both of their plots made sense, it's just how necessary the character was to grease the wheels on the plot and whether the character felt out of place or like they added anything aside from that grease or not.

Ramza

Rikku

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

don't worry lopen i can count on you to join me in supporting apollo next year right

Absolutely.

Apollo best character in FFL2 by far.