Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 384: Manchins of Madness

(+) Yeah! (+)

banananor posted...

i'm sure someone will explain why this can't happen, but it seems almost like a no-brainer to transition some of the military spending to infrastructure spending without killing a bunch of jobs

hell, the interstate highway system was a military endeavor

Because if we did Russia and China would invade and that's just what the far left Democrats want!

But in all seriousness, it's because any attempt to curtail military spending is a political no-go as it brands you as "not supporting the troops". Which is bullshit for many reasons...

Instead, we'll continue to have nearly everyone in America complaining about potholes, terrible roads, and crumbling bridges. You know, things we can literally see with our eyes and that fixing would have a recognizable positive effect, as opposed to military spending which might as well be thrown into a black hole for all that it impacts the average person.

Jakyl25 posted...

Did Trump ever successfully do that with the Border Wall funding? I know he floated the idea.

Yeah.

So one of the under-the-radar blatantly unconstitutional actions here was Trump usurping Congress's power of the purse.

When Congress refused to appropriate money to the wall, Trump declared a National Emergency and claimed that authorized him to divert military and other DoD funds that Congress had appropriated elsewhere to be used for the wall instead. Obviously lawsuits were filed immediately and while lower and circuit courts all were like "dawg this is so obviously unconstitutional you can't do that shit" SCOTUS went 5-4 "but is it?" and let the administration spend the money while proceedings continued (the lower courts had issued an injunction to prevent the spending pending the results of the case and that's what SCOTUS overturned)

So the cases proceeded and the lower courts found that obviously this was unconstitutional af. Congress is granted the power of the purse and the Executive branch can't just ignore them when they don't get what they want. Trump appealed to SCOTUS who agreed to hear it but Biden took office before it was argued and killing the emergency order was one of his many Day 1 actions so the case became moot and was dismissed. But much of that money was spent and not recoverable, AFAIK.

Btw guys said this in discord but that 7 billion thing is a huge out of context quote.

That number just came from a g7(or whatever the number was) commitment to fund vaccine readiness back in September. Not an actual number it would take for a true global vaccination campaign.

Yeah I think my back of the envelope math to vaccinate the world was more like a couple of tens of billions (lets say $100 billion to account for logistics). Still seems like a no-brainer at that price given that we spent like $5 trillion just on economic mitigation of the pandemic!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1476437555717541893

this man is so fucking stupid

is the implication that nobody has died from covid?

Mr Lasastryke posted...

is the implication that nobody has died from covid?

From the viewpoint of MAGA types, no one has died from COVID.

Except the people who did. But they don't count.

Pretty standard way it goes is 260+ pound average height male insists the only people that die to COVID are those that have comorbidities and thus there is nothing to worry about.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

is the implication that nobody has died from covid?

no, I think its supposed to be some both sides are bad thing.
Both characters are wildly overestimating the risk that the other character is taking. Vaccine guy is surprised Chad guy hasnt been killed by the virus, Chad guy is surprised Vaccine guy. hasnt been killed by all the shots.

of course the choice of Chad guy as the unvaccinated one compared to NPC guy does undercut the neutrality of it pretty badly

MoogleKupo141 posted...

no, I think its supposed to be some both sides are bad thing.
Both characters are wildly overestimating the risk that the other character is taking. Vaccine guy is surprised Chad guy hasnt been killed by the virus, Chad guy is surprised Vaccine guy. hasnt been killed by all the shots.

you're giving this waaaaaay too much credit, this is 100% an anti-vaxxer meme

if it was both sides, the chad on the right would be taking horse medicine or something

yeah, chad guy looks like a normal dude and vaccine guy has a million shots in his body (including two in his eyeballs), gray skin and a QR code tattooed on his forehead. i doubt this is supposed to be a completely neutral meme.

i was going to ask why grimes - who i think is pretty progressive - was with a guy who seems to be some kind of alt-right idiot but apparently she broke up with musk in september. lol

I don't really think someone like Grimes has the same sort of priorities as you or I, although honestly if I could leech off of Musk's fortune I might consider it

Few thoughts:

the pairing makes sense if you consider that Grimes probably isnt actually cool to hang out with, so they were mutually attracted to each other as two annoying weirdos

also i think Elon has gotten politically worse over the past few years, or hes been more open about how shitty he always was. When they got together he probably seemed more progressive than he does now.

his deification by the worst internet dudes has emboldened him to be a more blantant shithead

Like three years ago he tweeted this

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1008013111058526209?s=21

and I dont think hed even try to pretend that he thought socialism was good in any form

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/30/1069033446/officials-promise-groceries-for-xian-china-city-of-13-million-under-lockdown

Yikes

MoogleKupo141 posted...

Like three years ago he tweeted this

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1008013111058526209?s=21

and this was like right around when they started dating

I dont think hed even try to pretend that he thought socialism was good in any form now

eh, i don't know if i buy that musk was ever really a socialist. could be the same thing as rogan claiming he was a socialist.

even in that tweet, musk is saying he's a socialist while he's attacking socialists. it reads a lot like what a lot of those alt-right assholes say: "oh by the way, i'm actually a liberal! but i'm a CLASSICAL liberal! not one of those stupid woke pussy beta male liberals!"

What do you mean yikes? Here in the US we just hit our all time high case spike. I fucking wish we'd lock back down and get free money and groceries from the government.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

What do you mean yikes? Here in the US we just hit our all time high case spike. I fucking wish we'd lock back down and get free money and groceries from the government.

I'm good not being policed into staying at my house all day

masterplum posted...

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/30/1069033446/officials-promise-groceries-for-xian-china-city-of-13-million-under-lockdown

Yikes

This is based

masterplum posted...

I'm good not being policed into staying at my house all day

Muh freedom

Covid would have been over in 2 weeks if we did forced quarantine and the military delivering food/supplies.

Related:
https://twitter.com/parkermolloy/status/1476348937669910528?s=21

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Covid would have been over in 2 weeks if we did forced quarantine and the military delivering food/supplies.

The issue is you can use this logic for any societal ill.

Immigration wouldn't be an issue if we had the military patrolling the border
Drugs wouldn't be an issue if we had the military patrolling the streets

The whole point of the 4th amendment was we didn't like the military just chilling out with us all of the time.

Not to mention the whole issue of shutting down all of society for 2 weeks is kind of problematic if you still want food supply chains to work

masterplum posted...

I'm good not being policed into staying at my house all day

easiest compromise would be you aren't forced to stay indoors all day but you still get the free money and groceries. but i mean, you're reading chinese propaganda. they lie about everything and spin everything.

masterplum posted...

The issue is you can use this logic for any societal ill.

Immigration wouldn't be an issue if we had the military patrolling the border
Drugs wouldn't be an issue if we had the military patrolling the streets

The whole point of the 4th amendment was we didn't like the military just chilling out with us all of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxFXcTTgbGc

I tried typing out a response multiple times and ended up giving up because I couldn't make my thoughts succinct.

"What" is the vibe I was going for though so thank you for that

Wanglicious posted...

easiest compromise would be you aren't forced to stay indoors all day but you still get the free money and groceries. but i mean, you're reading chinese propaganda. they lie about everything and spin everything.

Doesn't that defeat the entire point of a forced quarantine?

that's why i say it's a compromise - it's not forced anymore. that said, there's also not much reason to go out, which is why it's effective. if you don't need to go out to make money or to get food then the vast majority of reasons to leave get cut out. your reasons are 1) exercise (good), 2) social activities (variable).

if you want to then crack down on social things, that's something else but won't impact your individual freedom to step outside the house, which admittedly isn't at all a bad thing since free air and sunlight are just good to have all around, for personal health and mental health. don't need to support China style lockdowns to support the societal outreach.

Wanglicious posted...

easiest compromise would be you aren't forced to stay indoors all day but you still get the free money and groceries. but i mean, you're reading chinese propaganda. they lie about everything and spin everything.

noted Chinese propaganda outlet NPR

chinese propaganda appears in every major paper. kind of a thing they do!

Wang is correct that our media publishes propaganda about China, but has the targets reversed.

masterplum posted...

Drugs wouldn't be an issue if we had the military patrolling the streets

If we could somehow end the opioid epidemic with 2 weeks of mandatory lockdown with basic needs all provided for everyone, Id go for it.

The whole point of the 4th amendment was we didn't like the military just chilling out with us all of the time.

you mean the 3rd?

there's nothing reversed, china's spent billions to spread propaganda around the world. this isn't new and it's silly that you think otherwise quite frankly. here's a 2018 article that goes pretty in depth.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/07/china-plan-for-global-media-dominance-propaganda-xi-jinping

and that's not including the more recent stuff we know like them giving WaPo some $6 million in 2020. like... this is what they do. if you're hearing a strangely positive story with funky numbers about something the Chinese government is doing, it's because the state controlled media released a puff piece about it.

You are completely off your rocker if you think ANY major western news outlet is even remotely pro-China

There is so much propaganda flying around about China, both positive and negative, that you have to constantly be reading things between the lines. And I hate to be the one to out-centrist Wang but if you somehow read that NPR article as being pro-China you've bought way too heavily into the anti-China spin.

Im confused how you think publishing an article in the US saying China is forcing people into their homes with the military would be seen as a pro-China puff piece.

edit: this was directed at Wang

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

There is so much propaganda flying around about China, both positive and negative, that you have to constantly be reading things between the lines. And I hate to be the one to out-centrist Wang but if you somehow read that NPR article as being pro-China you've bought way too heavily into the anti-China spin.

headline.
Officials promise groceries for Xi'an, China, city of 13 million under lockdown

first half, all positive spin.
TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) Chinese officials promised steady deliveries of groceries to residents of Xi'an, an ancient capital with 13 million people that is under the strictest lockdown of a major Chinese city since Wuhan was shut early last year at the start of the pandemic.

China's Commerce Ministry has contacted nearby provinces to help ensure adequate supplies of everyday necessities, a ministry spokesperson said Thursday.

State broadcaster CCTV aired a story Thursday showing building staff assembling free grocery deliveries for the residents of an apartment complex in Xi'an.

The deliveries included a box of 15 eggs, a 2.5-kilogram (5.5-pound) bag of rice and some green vegetables. Residents could also expect either some chicken or pork, it said.

the "critical" part:
Still, some people complained in comments below the segment shared on Weibo, a social media platform, that they have not received the same deliveries in their communities. Many worried if they will be able to obtain fresh vegetables and meat.

This week, authorities tightened restrictions in Xi'an so that people can no longer leave their homes to buy groceries. Previously, residents were allowed to buy food once every two days. The city is also sealed off, meaning that people cannot leave without special permission.

Xi'an reported 155 new locally transmitted cases on Wednesday, and a total of about 1,000 cases in the latest outbreak.

The numbers pale in comparison to outbreaks elsewhere in the world, but are significant for China, which continues to follow a policy of trying to eradicate the coronavirus. That has resulted in widespread lockdowns to cut the virus's spread.

China has reported a total of 101,890 cases and 4,636 deaths since the pandemic began.

even when it's critical, it's using the funky numbers and trying to make it not sound as bad. but do remember that most people just read headlines and if they read anything, just the first paragraph or two. at which point their takeaway is "oh, they're giving groceries to their people! that's a good thing!" it's framed pretty clearly as a positive for China with some light critique but still meant in a positive way. this is pretty similar to how they handle some of the worst Uighur stuff like their spin on forced sterilization. ...though seriously, the headline wasn't a giveaway that it's intended to be positive?

Jakyl25 posted...

If we could somehow end the opioid epidemic with 2 weeks of mandatory lockdown with basic needs all provided for everyone, Id go for it.

To be clear for those in the back: This would never work because doctors and pharmaceutical companies are responsible for this problem in the first place.

Really, the bias is obvious from the headline and end of the first paragraph. The article wants you to focus on the strictness of the lockdown and doubt the grocery promise. I also like how Xi'an is described as an "ancient capital" (of 13 million people) which is some pretty goofy Orientalism. You can Google places and you know it looks like a modern city to me! This would be like describing 21st century Rome as "ancient" which is just odd when what is meant is "a place with a lot of history that is not really relevant to the topic."

I also don't understand your complaint about the numbers. You just seem annoyed they don't share your additional skepticism. They focus on what has been reported (this is a neutral tone, which I will admit is a political choice on its own) and in fact the part where they compare the numbers to the rest of the world is being done to increase the implication that their harsh lockdowns are unreasonable.

Wang can you explain what you mean by "funky numbers"? I get that from an American standpoint China's covid numbers seem absurdly low, but that's just what happens when a society values human life more than individual freedom.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I tried typing out a response multiple times and ended up giving up because I couldn't make my thoughts succinct.

"What" is the vibe I was going for though so thank you for that

yeah, there's like six different things that don't make sense in that post. sometimes it's better to just go for the meme.

<_< when's the last time guiga started posting anyway.
because this shit's gold.

DeepsPraw posted...

Wang can you explain what you mean by "funky numbers"? I get that from an American standpoint China's covid numbers seem absurdly low, but that's just what happens when a society values human life more than individual freedom.

Wanglicious posted...

<_< when's the last time guiga started posting anyway.
because this shit's gold.

Hes right?

No really can you explain what you mean though

We know many places in the US underreport COVID case numbers. It is not unreasonable to assume other countries do too. It's probably almost assured!

The media reports these numbers uncritically all the time, because it's the data we have available. So why is this some smoking gun for dastardly Chinese influence?

it's the way you underreport. when india underreported for example, anybody who knew of their history could tell you they were majorly off, though not completely intentional in how they were hiding it. Brazil, lying. US, probably incompetence is the biggest. for china, lying. thing is we knew they were way off from December 2019 with the most extreme estimates being by something almost 30x. lowest was... 6x i think? but then they cracked down harder on leaks since, y'know, china.

though uh, gotta say.
can't say i expected anybody except guiga to agree that a country actively committing genocide holds values to human life in any way.

Wanglicious posted...

<_< when's the last time guiga started posting anyway.
because this shit's gold.

90% of his posts in these topics besides one-off remarks are defending China

also I'm pretty sure guiga hasn't posted here in well over a decade. wasn't he a right-wing troll anyways?

NFUN posted...

90% of his posts in these topics besides one-off remarks are defending China

i was just surprised since i thought he had moved on. like i pop in from time to time now because real life gets in the way but that was just a very "wait you're still here" moment for me. then laughter at china valuing human life.