Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 384: Manchins of Madness

(+) Yeah! (+)

I read that deleted post and am completely confused at what you are trying to say or what problem you would have with that statement.

I deleted that post because Im waiting on someone thats 45 minutes late and Im way too irritated to argue about it.

who cares

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

who cares

You were the one that brought this up?

red13n posted...

Uhh if you read the story that is exactly how the Biden admin approached the problem by working on speeding up the FDA.

Maybe Im blind, but Im not seeing that in the article Tony posted? It does say that theyve still only approved 13 (I believe dozens are approved in Europe).

LordoftheMorons posted...

Maybe Im blind, but Im not seeing that in the article Tony posted? It does say that theyve still only approved 13 (I believe dozens are approved in Europe).

There was a huge spike in approved tests around October of this year. There were two tests approved in the last two days(one at home test).

red13n posted...

There was a huge spike in approved tests around October of this year. There were two tests approved in the last two days(one at home test).

Got it. Glad to hear that the process is accelerating, though I think criticizing the FDA for having slow walked it in the beginning is still fair, and if they hadnt wed be better positioned right now.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Maybe Im blind, but Im not seeing that in the article Tony posted? It does say that theyve still only approved 13 (I believe dozens are approved in Europe).

Also it just got a little blurb in the article because that wouldn't make for good outrage bait.

That day, the administration instead announced an initiative to move rapid home tests more swiftly through the FDAs regulatory approval process.

Did a quick google to see what actually was happening. Also the link is too long and I didn't want to deal with it, but you can google the full list of FDA approved COVID tests and you can see them trickle in at like 0 to 1 a month from the start of the pandemic and then spike up starting in October this year.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-administration-announces-plan-accelerate-authorization-home-covid-tests-n1282255

Now that Im no longer irritated I can restate that Increase speed of approvals was literally part of the proposal that was rejected, so its not really outrage bait when the proposal was to increase the speed of approvals and get them into the hands of more people for free.

Sounds like it wasnt fully rejected then. Just the part of sending them out to everyone's homes.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Now that Im no longer irritated I can restate that Increase speed of approvals was literally part of the proposal that was rejected, so its not really outrage bait when the proposal was to increase the speed of approvals and get them into the hands of more people for free.

No, it is outrage bait. Because they literally sped up approvals and are now sending them out for free.

Unless you want to backtrack to "Testing would stop the surge!3214" nonsense.

All at home testing does is give people a small convenience. But considering testing capacity in the country hasn't even been strained until recently(Turnaround time in Los Angeles from asking for a free test, getting a test, and then getting results was literally hours until very recently), saying there was somehow capacity to stop this surge is ridiculous.

red13n posted...

All at home testing does is give people a small convenience. But considering testing capacity in the country hasn't even been strained until recently(Turnaround time in Los Angeles from asking for a free test, getting a test, and then getting results was literally hours until very recently), saying there was somehow capacity to stop this surge is ridiculous.

More rapid tests definitely wouldn't have stopped there being a surge, but they would somewhat slow things down and help people who are asymptomatic/who have mild symptoms who may not have gone through the trouble of getting a PCR test have the info they need to know to self isolate.

Surprisingly good take from...

https://www.businessinsider.com/tomi-lahren-fox-news-not-a-good-kyle-rittenhouse-clip-2021-12

Tomi Lahren of all people

LordoftheMorons posted...

More rapid tests definitely wouldn't have stopped there being a surge, but they would somewhat slow things down and help people who are asymptomatic/who have mild symptoms who may not have gone through the trouble of getting a PCR test have the info they need to know to self isolate.

Not sure how big of a dent they make, because sending an at home test is basically a one-time use item, you'd get a lot of people using them too early for exposure and many using them outright as soon as they got them. And then the problem people just throwing them out and then claiming the government is trying to hand deliver anthrax or something.

Basically, people are too stupid for them. And I can these free tests are already going to cause a lot of problems for places requiring a negative test in lieu of proof of vaccination. When they get turned away it is absolutely going to cause headaches.

I do agree that they dont have the same use case as the PCR tests and that a lot of people dont understand the distinction. I guess its plausible that that could outweigh the good they can do (notably that you get the result back soon enough to act on a positive), but Id bet against that.

I don't think the bad would outweigh the good, just that the good doesn't weigh very much to justify the use of resources.

lol ok

I don't think the argument of "the good doesn't outweigh the use of resources" is a very good one, but I also don't think it would have made a noticeable dent in a holiday surge to begin with, so this feels like a sorta pointless debate.

It feels like a "It's something they probably should have done, but also it probably wouldn't have made a difference, regardless" kind of situation.

StealThisSheen posted...

It feels like a "It's something they probably should have done, but also it probably wouldn't have made a difference, regardless" kind of situation.

I think you are taking it to mean something stronger than I intended. The "it wouldn't have made a meaningful difference" is basically the takeaway here.

I think an apt comparison to at-home tests is opening indoor restaurants and then telling people they have to wear masks.

We know how this is supposed to work in an ideal world. Wager people spend what, 45 minutes in a restaurant on average. 15 minutes they sit down and order, 15 minutes to eat, 15 minutes just conversing after the meal. How it supposed to go, you walk in, masked, you sit, stay masked. Want to drink, slip mask down, drink, slip mask back up. Food is there, mask off and eat. Done eating, mask back on. You figure you get 15-20 minutes of everyone mask off. Risk is there, but low.

Reality of people going into a restaurant with masks required. They walk in masks on, sit down, immediately the whole table takes their mask off. Servers would be the ones if anyone asked to enforce/educate this, but they rely on tips to live, they sure as fuck aren't saying shit. So masks are down the whole 45 minutes. Basically triple the exposure time anyone would plan around when idealizing those guidelines.

There is maybe 3% of the restaurant going population that doesn't do this. Works well in practice, in reality it is pointless and the people that are going to follow the guidelines to what you want probably would do that without guidelines anyway.

The whole pandemic here just comes down to people being too fucking stupid for their own good. Things that end up sounding good in practice just fall apart when you have to rely on real people.

Anyway, that was also on my mind because I went out to dinner with family yesterday. Pretty much everyone but me and one of my cousins followed this pattern(And we're both way above average intelligence), including every single person I saw walk into the restaurant.

People are just fucking baffling. Congrats, you wore a mask for 30 fucking seconds before you sat down have a goddamn cookie you fucking morons.

red13n posted...

Anyway, that was also on my mind because I went out to dinner with family yesterday. Pretty much everyone but me and one of my cousins followed this pattern(And we're both way above average intelligence), including every single person I saw walk into the restaurant.

People are just fucking baffling. Congrats, you wore a mask for 30 fucking seconds before you sat down have a goddamn cookie you fucking morons.

congrats you spent more than 30 seconds wearing a mask youre so much smarter than all those other people

if ulti made this exact same post as a caricature of the most insufferable mask person I would think it was too ridiculous

MoogleKupo141 posted...

congrats you spent more than 30 seconds wearing a mask youre so much smarter than all those other people

if ulti made this exact same post as a caricature of the most insufferable mask person I would think it was too ridiculous

Congrats you missed the point.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

congrats you spent more than 30 seconds wearing a mask youre so much smarter than all those other people

if ulti made this exact same post as a caricature of the most insufferable mask person I would think it was too ridiculous

I mean, did you read at all? My entire premise is that masks in restaurants are fucking pointless because of the way we implement them in practice. We know how in theory they would stop the spread of COVID but in practice it is an absolutely pointless rule because people are morons.

What part of this are you disagreeing with?

no, I get your point. My point is the way you delivered your point makes you seem like a pretentious asshole.

like its not enough that everyone else is a moron, you had to throw in the And we're both way above average intelligence parenthetical too.

maybe those other people in the restaurant arent morons, they just came to the same conclusion you did about how ridiculous it is, and decided not to bother.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

like its not enough that everyone else is a moron, you had to throw in the And we're both way above average intelligence parenthetical too.

Just a fact. Has nothing to do with masks. I'm pretty fucking smart and my cousin used to be just book smart but as shes gotten older has actually managed to turn that into a more practical smart.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

maybe those other people in the restaurant arent morons, they just came to the same conclusion you did about how ridiculous it is, and decided not to bother.

Nah dont give people that much credit, they are just morons. This is how its been since the start of the pandemic with restaurants. I get it, you dont think masks in restaurants are worth it, fine. But when these rules poll 80% approval and then get near 0% participation, it is people being morons. Now you are just making life harder for everyone to no benefit.

Noting your own intelligence to specify why your actions are uncommon among the general populace is fair. I'll allow it.

i definitely buy red being way above average intelligence. not because he's a genius but because most people are extremely dumb.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i definitely buy red being way above average intelligence. not because he's a genius but because most people are extremely dumb.

Yeah thisis one of those weird things you realize when you get older. It isn't that you are smart, its that 99% of the world is just really fucking stupid.

The whole "taking down the mask only during bites of food" thing is...sort of comically ridiculous. Especially when, if you're that concerned, you shouldn't be going out to eat in the damn first place!

Its weird youd be upset about people taking masks off at a restaurant and yet not mad all those people dont get easily available, free at-home tests.

Leafeon13N posted...

Just a fact. Has nothing to do with masks. I'm pretty fucking smart and my cousin used to be just book smart but as shes gotten older has actually managed to turn that into a more practical smart.

Im not trying to dispute how smart your cousin is, I just think you didnt need to self aggrandize or cousin aggrandize to make the point youre making

Nah dont give people that much credit, they are just morons.

i dont think Im giving people too much credit because Im the people. If you recognize that its all pointless because no one else is doing it, it seems kind of silly to keep doing the pointless thing. The morons won, may as well save yourself the hassle.

also I dont know how frequently you sip when you drink stuff, but Im basically constantly drinking in a restaurant setting, so pull down the mask, sip, put the mask back up would be a lot of extra hand to mask / face contact... which is something the cdc discourages.
theres not a clearly defined risk exchange rate between mask touching and time spent masked, so Im not even sure that the mask wearing would be a net positive for my danger level.

i dunno, you could also choose to not go to restaurants? the logic of "the morons won so i might as well put myself in risky situations" seems weird to me.

for the record, my country is in lockdown again so i can't go to restaurants anyway but yeah.

red13n posted...

Wager people spend what, 45 minutes in a restaurant on average. 15 minutes they sit down and order, 15 minutes to eat, 15 minutes just conversing after the meal.

45 minutes is a low average btw. Maybe closer to an hour 15 minutes.

One of the things it took me getting a little older to understand is that 1. As smart as we maybe are, we aren't probably as smart as we think we are. 2. Because people don't do things the way we think about things doesn't make them dumb.

I can assure you there are Republicans who think you are stupid for your political beliefs that actually are way smarter than you. I can assure you there are religious people who believe in a God you think are fake that are way smarter than you. I can assure you there are antivax people out there that are way smarter than you.

The thing about intelligence is that your minds work different and just because you may specifically make a smarter decision and them a dumber decision at a time doesn't make you a smarter person or them a dumber person. Or as moogle pointed out above mean they came to what you deem as a dumber decision by the means you attribute to them.

Let's say you are actually slightly above average in intelligence. Then that means like 5 billion people in the world are less intelligent than you or so. And, then, depending on your personality, you may even contribute how many as smart or smarter than you are being less intelligent than you as well. Hey why not. Thus, there is a lot of people to deem dumb.

And, even then a smart person doesn't have to make every right decision also. Which of course brings you back to just deeming they are all dumb anyways.

The point is. You seem to think intelligence is measured by making every decision you personally think is smart and them being dumb if they didn't make it. It's a poor measure of intelligence tbqh.

Corrik7 posted...

. I can assure you there are antivax people out there that are way smarter than you.

Nope. You crossed the line to where someone believes something so stupid nothing could redeem them.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Its weird youd be upset about people taking masks off at a restaurant and yet not mad all those people dont get easily available, free at-home tests.

Oh hey Tony here missing the point. If you'd read I was comparing how both are things that would help in theory but because you are relying on people there is 0 point.

Who missed the point? There are a non-zero amount of people who could be relied on if they had tests available to use.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i dunno, you could also choose to not go to restaurants? the logic of "the morons won so i might as well put myself in risky situations" seems weird to me.

While I'm definitely not going to go to restaurants as much right now I'm long beyond the stage of caring that much anymore. Basically do what I can for reasonable self protection and beyond that dont have much room to care anymore.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Who missed the point? There are a non-zero amount of people who could be relied on if they had tests available to use.

You missed the point. There are also a nonzero amount of people that wear masks in restaurants. In the grand scheme of things, no meaningful difference.

Corrik7 posted...

45 minutes is a low average btw. Maybe closer to an hour 15 minutes.

Also intentionally went on the low end but i think breaking it into thirds is reasonable.

Seanchan posted...

The whole "taking down the mask only during bites of food" thing is...sort of comically ridiculous.

No one has said take mask down between bites of food.

red13n posted...

(And we're both way above average intelligence)

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm pretty fucking smart

God, this is just eyeroll-inducing

You guys are focusing way too much on an inoccuous comment that I made mostly because I was kind of impressed after having a conversation with a cousin that I hadn't been able to talk to in awhile.

Hell if you want me to stroke your egos too b8 on the whole is pretty damn intelligent. It is part of the reason I hang out here. Certainly compared to an average full restaurant I'd wager most people here would be the smartest or near smartest in the room.

Edit: going to reiterate this has nothing to do with mask use, just general intellect.

One of the things it took me getting a little older to understand is that 1. As smart as we maybe are, we aren't probably as smart as we think we are. 2. Because people don't do things the way we think about things doesn't make them dumb.

I dont know about much, but I definitely do believe there are a lot of people out there making objectively 'dumber' choices.

Leafeon13N posted...

Also intentionally went on the low end but i think breaking it into thirds is reasonable.

You just forgot actually cooking time.

Corrik7 posted...

You just forgot actually cooking time.

Mostly just thinking about how the average person enjoys crappy chain restaurants. Something like the Olive Garden where they take your order in 5 minutes then in 10 minutes taken your food out of a bag and warmed it up.

Disclaimer have not eaten in an olive garden in like 15 years but this was the general experience then and so I took the opportunity to trash them. At least here most of the big chains try to follow that blueprint.

Leafeon13N posted...

minutes taken your food out of a bag and warmed it up.

This characterization always bothered me. It would be like saying soup isn't real food because it was cooked and then put in a can. Someone still had to cook the food somewhere up the chain. The fact that it was made in bulk and then shipped to restaurants in bags doesn't really matter.

I mean they don't slaughter cows in the kitchen either, but people don't have an issue with steaks.

K guys plum broke me I dont even know how to start with this.

To segway a little bit, the restaurant I was at with family the other day was an italian place. It was good unlike the olive garden trash people eat and cost about the same price as the olive garden would(i looked this up right now and i shouldn't have)