Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 370: Trial of Tears

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, my bad.

LordoftheMorons posted...

This was a particularly gross attack on AOC that made it to my feed!

https://twitter.com/Potentialmemery/status/1378489594262429697

Did you post the wrong tweet?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Did you post the wrong tweet?

I meant the tweet in the screenshot, not the dude calling it out

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't know who specifically you are talking about but I feel the lefties I watch regularly are pretty grounded.

Wish we were still back on the Stimulus talk because they were all coming out of the woodwork then and I had more links I happened to click on(There were a lot of people with expensive streaming setups calling for fucking poor people for no net gain).

Some of the angry AOC talk the last few days led me to this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZtdizUGnC0

Hes actually a bit less outlandish than those I really hate personality-wise. But his arguments are generally pretty trash. I mean, right idea at times, but really just bad faith arguments all around. Lots of taking things out of context; lots of being angry with the system while offering no real solutions, some poor sourcing. Lots of the very common hypocrisy of being angry that Democrats make pointless platitudes then being angry that AOC or whoever didn't make a pointless platitude.

Got curious and watched another video where he started comparing modern times to literal slavery, then tried to say he wasn't talking about wage slavery when he was literally talking about wage slavery, with weird claims about how we still had slavery just like pre-civil war(We don't. We have exploitation. Only part he had right was prison labor, but that was a 1 second blurb in a 5 minute rant).

Hes also completely incapable of staying on topic, which is probably part of his brand of fooling people into thinking hes intelligent(It is harder to argue a subject when you can't stay on point for more than 30 seconds in a video).

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Also I started looking the guy up on Twitter and its even worse.

Hes oddly pro-China(In a weird genocide/ethnic cleansing denial sort of way).

And spreading a poor anti-vax adjacent message saying they are meant to protect capitalism. Which is just flat out wrong because anyone necessary to protect capitalism was being thrown to the wolves and being forced to work prior anyway. Beyond that most of the country ended up vaccinating the elderly and medical personnel first. There were definitely people out there arguing to vaccinate the workforce first and isolate those most at risk. That didn't happen here. It is just a dumb take on so many levels.

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I have never heard of him heh

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Also you got me in a bad cycle of taking something I didn't care for at a glance and then looking deeper for the sake of it and just getting angrier.

This is why I've taken to just hunting down right wing people for arguments on twitter. Its a lot more fun to be angry at people you don't need as allies.

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yeah I guess that's why I have stuck with the same 4-5 people on youtube for years and have been happy. I don't always agree with their takes but they are reasonable.

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Also I started looking the guy up on Twitter and its even worse.

I dont really know who this guy is except when I saw his picture in that YouTube link you posted it looked familiar and Im pretty sure its familiar because Ive seen him be bad on Twitter at some point.
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I feel like almost everyone you guys think is a "fake progressive" does not actually even identify as a progressive

Im confused why were on a tangent about Peter Coffin/Jimmy Dore/fake progressives shilling YouTube types like they represent the majority of the B8ers on the Left or something when none of us (to my knowledge) have ever even praised or posted about them.

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i've praised jimmy dore plenty of times! never got what was so terrible about him, even though people in this topic have attempted to explain it to me several times.

but i think he stated awhile ago that he wants to work together with tucker or something? if that's true, that definitely puts him in the "impossible to take seriously" camp, sure.

(also, we're on this tangent because the guy in the video deepspraw posted is apparently a "fake progressive" type. i have no idea who he is, though.)

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red13n posted...

Wish we were still back on the Stimulus talk because they were all coming out of the woodwork then and I had more links I happened to click on(There were a lot of people with expensive streaming setups calling for fucking poor people for no net gain).

Some of the angry AOC talk the last few days led me to this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZtdizUGnC0

You know it's a quality video when the thumbnail has a quick and ugly photoshop around her head to make her hair look thinner.

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"There will not be another foot of wall constructed by my administration." - President Joe Biden, Wall Constructor

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Personal side-story here, but I was unaware that the Covid Relief Bill including a provision which eliminated COBRA premium payments from April 1 - September 30. COBRA was the second biggest monthly expense for my parents, who have been struggling to see if an early retirement is possible (since they realize my dad won't find another job in his early 60s). This will save them just under 6k over the next six months.

Thank you, Old Man Joe.

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Dunno if it got mentioned but I wanted to dunk on Vlado so I will point out how all the nationalist/fascist parties got booted from the Bulgarian parliament at their election this weekend, and the Russophiles did very badly. Good times!

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Personal side-story here, but I was unaware that the Covid Relief Bill including a provision which eliminated COBRA premium payments from April 1 - September 30. COBRA was the second biggest monthly expense for my parents, who have been struggling to see if an early retirement is possible (since they realize my dad won't find another job in his early 60s). This will save them just under 6k over the next six months.

Thank you, Old Man Joe.

Oh dang COBRA premiums are huge that's great!

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https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1379555443790471169?s=21

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i've praised jimmy dore plenty of times! never got what was so terrible about him, even though people in this topic have attempted to explain it to me several times.

but i think he stated awhile ago that he wants to work together with tucker or something? if that's true, that definitely puts him in the "impossible to take seriously" camp, sure.

(also, we're on this tangent because the guy in the video deepspraw posted is apparently a "fake progressive" type. i have no idea who he is, though.)

I have a passing familiarity with the guy he posted, I don't watch him (not into youtubers) but I've seen him on twitter. From my understanding he is a communist, not a progressive, not american, and focuses on american foreign policy largely because America is bombing his country.

But hes a fake progressive because he has a YouTube channel and his methods make neolibs squeamish, and if youre off putting to neolibs it means you dont actually want to make changes.

Or something

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https://twitter.com/RacismDog/status/1379555806442569742

ah yes, america's well-known problem with prisons is its *checks notes* ...under-incarceration?

thank you arkansas

Speaking of Arkansas, the GOP governor actually vetoed that state law to deny transgender children gender-affirming treatment... but the Arkansas legislature today overrode the veto so it is now law.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

But hes a fake progressive because he has a YouTube channel and his methods make neolibs squeamish, and if youre off putting to neolibs it means you dont actually want to make changes.

Or something

His methods of attempting to cancel notorious neolibs AOC and Elizabeth Warren yeah that checks out.

Well less attempting to cancel and more crying like a toddler because I fully understand the only people that actual care about him are literally fake progressives like previously pointed out.

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It just seems like there's a huge portion of people who can't handle both recognizing aoc is one of the best politicians in the US government but that she also isn't above criticism or good enough to satisfy everyone all the time. Some people are far, far to the left of anyone in the US government. I know I am, and it's just maddening the crumbs I'm expected to be excited or okay with. Like, I'm supposed to love a "capitalist to her bones" Warren, when I think capitalism is fundamentally bad, just because she's one of the better people we have, instead of wanting better? Maybe consider the reason you aren't exactly as mad as him isn't because he is a toddler, but just that your politics are more right wing than his and the US is bombing his country so none of this seems nearly as infuriating and inadequate to you as it would to him. Like, you are calling him a whiny toddler but get mad about snake emojis. I think he has much more mature concerns than the people crying about fake progressives being too mean to their favs.

At this point were just to arguing about two different things because he was mean to my fav was clearly not my complaint even though you want to frame it that way because it is easier to argue against.

And I know there is no hope of convincing you and Deeps otherwise so I usually dont engage but I wanted to at least clarify that.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

a provision which eliminated COBRA premium payments from April 1 - September 30.

honestly this should be kept permanently, COBRA is a fucking scam.


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fuming posted...

It just seems like there's a huge portion of people who can't handle both recognizing aoc is one of the best politicians in the US government but that she also isn't above criticism or good enough to satisfy everyone all the time. Some people are far, far to the left of anyone in the US government. I know I am, and it's just maddening the crumbs I'm expected to be excited or okay with. Like, I'm supposed to love a "capitalist to her bones" Warren, when I think capitalism is fundamentally bad, just because she's one of the better people we have, instead of wanting better? Maybe consider the reason you aren't exactly as mad as him isn't because he is a toddler, but just that your politics are more right wing than his and the US is bombing his country so none of this seems nearly as infuriating and inadequate to you as it would to him. Like, you are calling him a whiny toddler but get mad about snake emojis. I think he has much more mature concerns than the people crying about fake progressives being too mean to their favs.

yeah, if that guy is a communist, he's going to think AOC sucks... because AOC is not a communist. which is fine, he's entitled to his opinion.

i like AOC for the most part but i do agree that people in this topic are weirdly flippant about her getting criticized/bashed.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i like AOC for the most part but i do agree that people in this topic are weirdly flippant about her getting criticized/bashed.

Nothing wrong with criticizing anyone. But if your going to do it by taking things out of context or criticizing her not doing things you are already against(The common example: pointless platitudes) I am definitely going to have a problem with that. They become fake hot takes at that point.

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Theres also a lot of people who arent progressives that like to pretend that they are because they know we are more palatable so you have them sharing stuff like that video under the guise of IM ONE OF YOU. Think fringe rose Twitter.

I said in my original post I wasnt even really talking about more than one or two people here but it is something I see amplified on Twitter quite a lot.

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red13n posted...

But if your going to do it by taking things out of context or criticizing her not doing things you are already against(The common example: pointless platitudes) I am definitely going to have a problem with that. They become fake hot takes at that point

What is Trump was literally taking babies from their parents arms but a pointless platitude when kids are still being forcibly separated from their families?

This whole thing is the opposite being upset she wont say platitudes my guy

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What is Trump was literally taking babies from their parents arms but a pointless platitude when kids are still being forcibly separated from their families?

This whole thing is the opposite being upset she wont say platitudes my guy

She went on a 15 minute rant against Biden's border problems, I don't know what you expect.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What is Trump was literally taking babies from their parents arms but a pointless platitude when kids are still being forcibly separated from their families?

This whole thing is the opposite being upset she wont say platitudes my guy

Tony we are referencing different things here. I watched a whole host of his videos unrelated to the recent AOC thing. My post was more generalized, but it was something I caught him doing a lot.

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The biggest thing I was referencing specifically that I recall was him being super angry that they didn't force a vote on a bill that that he admitted he knew had 0 chance of passing.

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It was all packed into this rant about how AOC is this big progressive voice but she hasn't enacted any change and how dare she...not force a vote on a bill that would also not enact any change.

It was just a horrible mess of logic that he kept talking in bad circles over.

Again, there are good positions to be had wrapped in that package, but you can have them without having to be a hypocrite.

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I've never seen any force the vote advocate say the purpose of forcing the vote is that it will pass, and yet everyone against it just goes straight to that as a reason not to do it. Why not try to criticize the actual reasons they wanted to force the vote?

fuming posted...

I've never seen any force the vote advocate say the purpose of forcing the vote is that it will pass, and yet everyone against it just goes straight to that as a reason not to do it. Why not try to criticize the actual reasons they wanted to force the vote?

Oh there are absolutely valid reasons to force votes at times(Delaying the recent stimulus was not justifiable, for a recent example though). But this was wrapped up in a rant about how he was angry about pointless laws that don't change anything and how democrats do these things that show their positions but don't actually put anything into law. Then ranting how AOC hasn't enacted any systemic change. Then a couple minutes later hes whining about how she didn't force a pointless vote.

Basically, hes an idiot. I'm not saying there aren't valid concerns to be had here. I'm saying the specific voice expressing those concerns is a moron.

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For all the talk about cancelling AOC, please remember that the single most viewed political show on TV featured this about the January 6th Insurrection:

TUCKER CARLSON (HOST): Today is the three month anniversary of January 6th. For those of you are not good at dates or don't have calendars, this is the day that we pause to remember the white supremacist QAnon insurrection, that came so very close to toppling our government and ending this democracy forever.

You saw what happened. It was carried live on television, every gruesome moment. A mob of older people from unfashionable zip codes somehow made it all the way to Washington, D.C., probably by bus.

They wandered freely through the Capitol, like it was their building or something. They didn't have guns, but a lot of them had extremely dangerous ideas. They talked about the Constitution, and something called their rights. Some of them made openly seditious claims. They insisted, for example, that the last election wasn't entirely fair. The whole thing was terrifying, and then, as you've been told so very often, they committed unspeakable acts of violence.

By the time thousands of soldiers arrived to restore order, an unarmed woman, an Air Force veteran lay dead. To this day, that woman is the one completely verified casualty of the insurrection, the only person whose death we can say definitively was caused by specific events on January 6th. We know how she died. The funny thing is, you almost never hear that woman's name. Possibly that's because she was not a Democratic member of congress or even a Joe Biden voter. She was a protester, her name was Ashli Babbitt. She was 35.

We still don't know who shot Ashli Babbitt or why -- no one will tell us.

But then, when you're fighting insurrectionists, you don't have to explain yourself. You just hyperventilate about QAnon and then you do whatever you want.

When a group of sad disenfranchised people who have been left out of the modern economy show up at your office, you don't have to listen to their complaints. Not for a second. Why would you? You thought listening to people's complaints was democracy? No, these people threaten democracy.

You could even shoot one of them if you want, and get away with it. Killing people without explaining yourself is an established part of counterinsurgency.

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TheRock1525 posted...

For all the talk about cancelling AOC, please remember that the single most viewed political show on TV featured this about the January 6th Insurrection:

holy shit

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I mean, you just knew that at some point Fox News realized that the majority of their audience is the Insurrectionists and they were gonna rehab them after the initial condemnation, but Tucker giving them the full-throated defense is still pretty horrifying to see.

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I don't see at all what tucker carlson, or his tv show being popular, has at all to do with aoc.

Oh, and Candace Owens took it to the logical conclusion by including Nazis.

CANDACE OWENS (GUEST): What happened on January 6th was to me, the Reichstag fire happening all over again in America. Democrats use it to consolidate power and to trample over the civil rights of half of the country.

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I logged into an alt to see what that was (one I'd never even posted in this topic with), and IT was blocked by Rock too.

Someone post what it is.

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It was just a copy paste of a horrendously awful opening by Tucker Carlson and his thoughts on the insurrection. He prefaced it with an opening of for all the talk of AOC being canceled remember this is the number one tv news program.

Im not 100% sure how those two are related either, but Im tired so Im probably just missing something,

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Suprak the Stud posted...

It was just a copy paste of a horrendously awful opening by Tucker Carlson and his thoughts on the insurrection. He prefaced it with an opening of for all the talk of AOC being canceled remember this is the number one tv news program.

Im not 100% sure how those two are related either, but Im tired so Im probably just missing something,

It's the idea that so called "progressives" like Jimmy Dore will talk about how AOC is deserving of scorn for not putting a false equivalency between the Trump administration and the Biden administration (even though she still said the situation was completely awful and a failure for all parties) will then turn around and say "you know, we can work with someone like Tucker Carlson."

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i've praised jimmy dore plenty of times! never got what was so terrible about him, even though people in this topic have attempted to explain it to me several times.

i take this back, btw. aside from the "let's work together with tucker" stuff, he's also said there's merit to the seth rich conspiracy theory, which is extremely dumb.

i've watched dore for many years and i've agreed with a lot of what he's said but yeah, i can't deny that he's said some idiotic shit.

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also, as horrible as defending the insurrectionists is, tucker being a racist piece of shit is probably the worst thing about him.

https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1295220/tucker-carlson-racism.jpg

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https://www.npr.org/2021/04/06/984884294/arkansas-gov-asa-hutchinson-on-transgender-health-care-bill-step-way-too-far

It's kinda insane to see the governor of fucking Arkansas going "guys, slow your roll" on an anti-trans bill.

How far right do you have to be when you're too right for Arkansas's governor?

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TheRock1525 posted...

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/06/984884294/arkansas-gov-asa-hutchinson-on-transgender-health-care-bill-step-way-too-far

It's kinda insane to see the governor of fucking Arkansas going "guys, slow your roll" on an anti-trans bill.

How far right do you have to be when you're too right for Arkansas's governor?

And here I just thought he was vetoing for purely political reasons because he knew he would get overridden anyway.

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TheRock1525 posted...

It's the idea that so called "progressives" like Jimmy Dore will talk about how AOC is deserving of scorn for not putting a false equivalency between the Trump administration and the Biden administration (even though she still said the situation was completely awful and a failure for all parties) will then turn around and say "you know, we can work with someone like Tucker Carlson."

Jimmy is entirely consistent though. He believes in disagreeing with people when he disagrees with them and agreeing with people when he agrees with him regardless of their party or politics on other issues. I definitely don't always agree with Jimmy but I don't see how him criticizing aoc on somehing he doesn't agree with her on and him not always disagreeing with Tucker is being anything but just that he isn't totally partisan. And wasn't the whole argument for Biden that we should be trying to work with republicans and be bipartisan? That was the pitch, but for some reason when anyone people don't like says hey, let's appeal to republicans it's heresy.

Jimmy Dore is a raging asshole and I don't give a shit about what asshole have to say regardless of their political positions.

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fuming posted...

I don't see how him criticizing aoc on somehing he doesn't agree with her on and him not always disagreeing with Tucker is being anything but just that he isn't totally partisan. And wasn't the whole argument for Biden that we should be trying to work with republicans and be bipartisan? That was the pitch, but for some reason when anyone people don't like says hey, let's appeal to republicans it's heresy.

This reads as disingenuous to me because Tucker himself is so transparently disingenuous. It's not merely the case of appealing to any old Republican. Tucker has no credibility and doesn't deserve to have any extended to him. It doesn't really matter that occasionally he'll superficially espouse some point I can agree with. Frankly the tendency of the fringe left to want to reach out to the far/alt-right because they share the common ground of hating liberals strikes me as entirely misguided.

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