Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 370: Trial of Tears

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't think it really matters if tucker himself is genuine. If you go on his show and he agrees with you, the two possible outcomes are his viewers are more likely to agree with you too, or his viewers are more likely to watch someone else who they agree with more. It's a bit murkier on how useful it is if you are going on to disagree with him, but at least that may have value in allowing his audience to at least hear your point of view.

I don't like Jimmy Dore at all, I think he's totally full of shit.

That being said:

It's the idea that so called "progressives" like Jimmy Dore will talk about how AOC is deserving of scorn for not putting a false equivalency between the Trump administration and the Biden administration (even though she still said the situation was completely awful and a failure for all parties) will then turn around and say "you know, we can work with someone like Tucker Carlson."

AOC can make mistakes, and we should be able to tell her when she's wrong.

Tucker Carlson, as big of a shitbag racist as he is, can also say good things. If he can say those good things on his program that (may still be idk) is the biggest show on TV, period, we should absolutely get him to say that, it doesn't absolve him of anything, it doesn't make him good, or better than he was, or any of that shit.

fuming posted...

And wasn't the whole argument for Biden that we should be trying to work with republicans and be bipartisan? That was the pitch, but for some reason when anyone people don't like says hey, let's appeal to republicans it's heresy.

Yeah it's weird how the same people who spend all their time talking about the Left isn't willing to cooperate spend so much time accusing the Left of secretly sympathizing with the Right--the thing they tell us is good.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Tucker Carlson, as big of a shitbag racist as he is, can also say good things.

Nope.

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They're trying really hard to keep the scam going

https://twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/1379831785194987523?s=19

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fuming posted...

I don't think it really matters if tucker himself is genuine. If you go on his show and he agrees with you, the two possible outcomes are his viewers are more likely to agree with you too, or his viewers are more likely to watch someone else who they agree with more. It's a bit murkier on how useful it is if you are going on to disagree with him, but at least that may have value in allowing his audience to at least hear your point of view.

I think it mostly matters if Tucker is genuine because the only consistent thing he supports is Tucker Carlson. Cross-platforming is tricky and opaque but it also works the same way in reverse - the audience of the guest agreeing with Tucker could end up becoming a Tucker stan. There's considerations to be sure.

But this is kind of besides the point - I'll concede there's some utility in reaching out to Tucker's audience and changing their minds. But I see frequently that there's some sort of ideological middle ground the far left and right can arrive at to work together and I think that's totally misguided. The far-right in the US is too integrated with culture war stuff that's antithetical to any sort of leftist movement and you can't really smooth that over. And to this extent Tucker Carlson does not need defending unless your plan is to engage in mutual grifting by trying to land a spot on his show.

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Okay, when we start getting into the "Now hold on, here, Tucker Carlson can be not so bad" territory, I know certain people are just flat out lost.

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there's a difference between "tucker said something i agreed with once" and "i want to work together with tucker!"

if you're not a racist asshole, tucker should be somewhere at the bottom of your "people i want to work with" list.

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Even ignoring the fact that being withing 100 feet of the man damages your soul, what's the point of going onto a program that has argued for itself in a court of law that it isn't news and no reasonable person would ever take anything said on the show seriously?

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Its also bizarre because an entirely legitimate complaint about Biden was worrying her tried to work with republicans at the expense of his agenda. I havent watched Dore in years now but I can almost guarantee he had multiple segments on how Biden working with Republicans was going to happen and evil. And then some of these same people who said that was (rightfully) a concern are like oh but we cant just ignore Tucker Carlson.

Yes you can, as it turns out!

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HashtagSEP posted...

Okay, when we start getting into the "Now hold on, here, Tucker Carlson can be not so bad" territory, I know certain people are just flat out lost.

Who is saying this? Jimmy Dore said this?

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Anybody that is saying "We can work with Tucker Carlson" is saying that, in effect. There should be no "but" after "Tucker Carlson is a racist shitbag." That's where it stops. That's where it ends. By implying we should work with him, or use his platform, or whatever, it's basically saying "There's some actual value/good there we should work with."

There isn't.

Like Hero said, literally the only reason to work with Tucker Carlson is if you're also a shitbag who wants to partake in the grift.

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If Jimmy Dore is saying "we should work with Tucker Carlson", he's wrong, but that's not what I'm saying.

I don't think it's about "working" with Tucker Carlson.

I think pointing out when he's right is ok, because I would much rather the most popular guy in cable news say the right things to his massive audience than the wrong shit, even if he is a total shithead.


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who gives a fuck when a broken clock gets the time right for one second and spreads bigotry, white supremacy, and transphobia all the rest of the time

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The problems with that are

1. Tucker's pretty much never right
2. When he is right, it's usually for nefarious reasons as part of some larger grift

Basically, nobody should be giving Tucker Carlson the time of day. He should just be ignored. When you point out when he's right, you're giving him credibility and validity.

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The worst person you know just made a great point.onion

I guess I dont see the value of even pointing out when hes right. His audience will see that from him, not us. All were doing is signal boosting and maybe thats someones first intro to Tucker and they think oh hes not so bad. This person I like tweeted out this segment and he seems reasonable here

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We've been over this a jillion times, while it's your prerogative to ignore him all you want, I think it's important to pay attention to harmful shit with a massive audience.

Pointing out the one time the broken clock is right doesn't give HIM credibility or validity, it gives it to yourself.

Just my opinion.

edit: nobody who is even the tiniest bit interested or aware of politics doesn't know who Tucker is, you can't signal boost the most popular person on the planet.

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paying attention does not necessitate commending grifters

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GuessMyUserName posted...

paying attention does not necessitate commending grifters

This.

I'm not sure how you can say that pointing out when he's right doesn't give him credibility or validity. Like, that's literally how it starts. You get the right person to see you point out he's right, and they're going to start to think "If he's right on this, what else is he right on?"

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remember when wang used to tout Tucker as one of if not the best journalist in mainstream media

lmao

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Like, stuff like "We should point out when Tucker Carlson is right" always reminds me of those drug scenes from Walk Hard, where it's like

"You don't want none of this shit, Dewey! It clears your mind and makes sex feel even better! Stay away from it!"
"...You know, it kinda sounds like I do want some of that shit."

Except it's "You don't want to watch this shit! He's a racist shitbag, but also he's right about ____ and ____!"

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There are plenty of people our age who are aware of who Tucker is tangentially but have never ever watched his program. And I mean I dont see how that gives us any credibility.

This racist grifter agreed with me isnt something that makes me think Im any more right. Unless Im misunderstanding what youre saying.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

remember when wang used to tout Tucker as one of if not the best journalist in mainstream media

lmao

i wish i didn't

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I guess I just wish people like Dore hated Tucker Carlson the same way they hate the squad.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

I guess I just wish people like Dore hated Tucker Carlson the same way they hate the squad.

This was ultimately Rock's point. AOC commits one teeny, tiny hiccup that pretty much doesn't even truly exist if you listen to the whole thing, and people like him are calling her the next Pelosi and saying she's a traitor and hates the left and all this crap, but then they turn around and "You know, this Tucker Carlson guy is right"

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HashtagSEP posted...

This.

I'm not sure how you can say that pointing out when he's right doesn't give him credibility or validity. Like, that's literally how it starts. You get the right person to see you point out he's right, and they're going to start to think "If he's right on this, what else is he right on?"

Ok so if we're going to use a hypothetical moron who doesn't know who Tucker is at all, but wants to be politically engaged, flip this around and use the same hypothetical.

Person doesn't know jackshit about Tucker Carlson, but they see some shit he said that's right. Someone tells them "no he's wrong", and then they go "hmm, well I know he's right about this, so maybe Tucker has been right all along".

We're not talking about signal boosting some shmuck with 20 subscribers, we're talking about the biggest "cable news" guy on the planet.

The other side of this example is your moron friend goes "hey look at this Tucker guy", and you can go "Wow, Tucker is right for once, but trust me when I say he's a shithead who is wrong 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time".

It doesn't have to be so serious, as Suprak brought up, you can just go "Heartbreaking, worst person you know made a good point" and that's the end of it.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Pointing out the one time the broken clock is right doesn't give HIM credibility or validity, it gives it to yourself.

Just my opinion.

edit: nobody who is even the tiniest bit interested or aware of politics doesn't know who Tucker is, you can't signal boost the most popular person on the planet.

I mean we used to have Wang who would come in here and post clips of Tucker saying the "good" stuff to get us to agree and give Tucker a chance and watch more of his show so I dunno!

In other situations there's a fine line and because of that I don't think Tucker deserves uncritical praise.

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Yeah it made sense after he explained it!

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HashtagSEP posted...

This was ultimately Rock's point. AOC commits one teeny, tiny hiccup that pretty much doesn't even truly exist if you listen to the whole thing, and people like him are calling her the next Pelosi and saying she's a traitor and hates the left and all this crap, but then they turn around and "You know, this Tucker Carlson guy is right"

Yeah, Jimmy Dore fucking sucks, he's not a smart guy and he's also not a good comedian.

Also random tangent, knowing Rock, I suspect he considers people like fuming, deepraw, and myself aligned or similar to Dore.

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I feel bad for Nicole Kidman having to play Mrs. Carlson in that movie.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Yeah, Jimmy Dore fucking sucks, he's not a smart guy and he's also not a good comedian.

Also random tangent, knowing Rock, I suspect he considers people like fuming, deepraw, and myself aligned or similar to Dore.

I mean I certainly wouldnt blame him on the first two, and you dont really help your case when you go on tangents like this about things like We need to point out when Tucker Carlson is right


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I suspect he considers people like fuming, deepraw, and myself aligned or similar to Dore.

Naw in Deep and Fumings case they're actually Republicans to begin with, just moved away from Trump.

However in your case I just assume Dore is your spirit animal.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Yeah, Jimmy Dore fucking sucks, he's not a smart guy and he's also not a good comedian.

Also random tangent, knowing Rock, I suspect he considers people like fuming, deepraw, and myself aligned or similar to Dore.

Definitely not you but I do consider Deep to be pretty close to Dore. I also used to watch Dore quite a bit as embarrassing as that is to admit but I swear he wasnt always this bad.

I think the issue (again) is that we are having two slightly different arguments because I dont think we actually disagree so let me clarify. I do not care if people like you make a joking comment of ugh even this idiot gets it. I was more talking about someone like Dore signal boosting Tucker because I can almost guarantee there are people in Dores audience that only kinda sorta know Tucker so him sharing a clip and being like oh hes not terrible is shitty and what I would consider signal boosting.

But you agree Dore sucks so like I said I dont think we have a real disagreement here.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Naw in Deep and Fumings case they're actually Republicans to begin with, just moved away from Trump.

However in your case I just assume Dore is your spirit animal.

what

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Naw in Deep and Fumings case they're actually Republicans to begin with, just moved away from Trump

What? I don't know how you arrived at this but you've gotta stop assuming everyone is a secret Republican.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Naw in Deep and Fumings case they're actually Republicans to begin with, just moved away from Trump.

However in your case I just assume Dore is your spirit animal.

I guarantee whatever your politics are, they are vastly more similar to the GOP than mine

Am I mixing up fuming with someone else?

Honestly he was in the group where I just started skipping their posts so very possible.

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Idk i also have him labeled as not worth reading his posts so i guarantee he said something very ridiculous in the recent past

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fuming used to go hard on the enlightened centrist bit early on, but now he's mostly just moved on to general "both sides are bad"isms.

He's never really seemed Republican at all.

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fuming is the one that's like cyclo but supposedly is not cyclo

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That would line up with my stance, since I condier centrists to be Republicans.

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HashtagSEP posted...

fuming used to go hard on the enlightened centrist bit early on, but now he's mostly just moved on to general "both sides are bad"isms.

He's never really seemed Republican at all.

"Both sides are bad" is more of a Republican thing to say than a centrist thing, though.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

I also used to watch Dore quite a bit as embarrassing as that is to admit but I swear he wasnt always this bad.

definitely not. back when he was with the young turks, i usually agreed with him.

now that he's praising tucker all the time, i can see why he's not with TYT anymore.


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I will clear up the mystery: I am a socialist. If this is not incredibly obvious I should probably stop posting because the fact anyone considered me a centrist has me depressed now

Fuming has literally never been a centrist or a Right winger, lol what is even happening here.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Naw in Deep and Fumings case they're actually Republicans to begin with, just moved away from Trump.

However in your case I just assume Dore is your spirit animal.

Also I thought you were obviously joking but apparently youre not????


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Xeybozn posted...

"Both sides are bad" is more of a Republican thing to say than a centrist thing, though.

Yeah but he kinda evolved his gig from enlightened centrist to supposedly Im so far left both sides may as well be the same thing

It doesnt make the both sides are bad any less dumb, but

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This topics understanding of political alignment is absolutely fucked.

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To be clear, Im not saying he actually WAS a centrist. Just early on, he said so little and it was ALL both sides are bad that he seemed like somebodys enlightened centrist troll gimmick. Hence why I said his gig seemed to evolve.

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Deeps though I'm confused about people being taken aback by since I thought he was straight up just an open right wing troll account. Didn't we think he was GuiGa at some point?

Again I have very intentionally skipped over their posts for a looooong time now.

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deep doesn't pop in much and when he does it's some dumb troll, stanning for china, or defending transphobia

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I believe deeps is the guy who posted the video of the communist richie medhurst saying they found a new person to follow, so if they were a right wing troll they aren't anymore.