Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 370: Trial of Tears

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1377976862622707717?s=21

AOC noooooooo

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doesn't surprise me the least bit. AOC was always a sham

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Yeah, I was waiting for her to say something about this. It's hugely irritating.

Like you don't get to do the most laughable over the top photoshoot at the border about how terrible it is and then downplay how bad it STILL is because it's Biden.

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I mean, she's not wrong that it's different from the Trump administration in that Trump would separate children from their families and Biden ended that practice.

However, they're still woefully underequipped to handle the number of unaccompanied children coming so the situation still remains terrible in how they're dealing with that.

The Biden administration did end one of the cruelest, most despicable policies of the Trump administration here but that's just the beginning, there's a lot more problems to solve before things stop being terrible. By all means, keep the pressure on the Biden administration until they actually get there but with Trump what we had at the border was the intended and desired result. Biden's administration at least appears to recognize it's a problem and has been taking steps to try to alleviate it even if they haven't been enough so far.

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Getting me to actually support the Democrat party instead of supporting whatever the hell isnt the Republicans is going to take them proving me wrong that they are actually trying to solve problems instead of pandering.

That AOC quote does not help.

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I feel like the criticisms of AOC on the border crisis are a little overblown. Her statements aren't GOOD but they aren't bad either. I'm whatever on it.

Her stance is basically that things are still awful but there's been progress, which is true. I think this is basically the only stance she can take to not burn bridges with thr party, which....OK. She calls both admins practices barbaric in that video. She's said the border situation is also tied to the policing and carceral crises, also correct. She has all these criticisms but she's committed to staying positive about change and not downplaying the small successes they have won. I think it's pretty dumb that she decided to go on this kind of defensive focus because all it does is generate bad quotes to take out of context. She's let it become about The Discourse instead of being about the situation and policy and what we should be doing to help and that's bad. I just see it less of a betrayal and more dumb political theater. Still disappointing I guess.

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xp1337 posted...

I mean, she's not wrong that it's different from the Trump administration in that Trump would separate children from their families and Biden ended that practice.

This literally isn't true. In 2018, a Federal judge ordered him to stop separating kids from biological parents, and he did.

All the Biden administration did is roll back the Executive Order that was already struck down by a judge!

Both administrations continued (and continue) to separate kids from family members who aren't their parents (or parents who couldn't be proven!) though.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I feel like the criticisms of AOC on the border crisis are a little overblown. Her statements aren't GOOD but they aren't bad either. I'm whatever on it.

For me, it's the GIGANTIC HUGE DEAL she made fake crying in front of seeing all these children in cages but suddenly being not okay even when that issue is still going on and even worse and making excuses of it.

It's just gross that she's defending a lot of this. Like lady, you cared this much before, maybe act like you still actively give a fuck?

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

It's just gross that she's defending a lot of this. Like lady, you cared this much before, maybe act like you still actively give a fuck?

I don't see her defending any of it. But then again, I'm not jumping to quick conclusions. She's just saying she's not drawing false equivalence between Trump and Biden. She outright called Biden out on how horrible things are going, and pointed out that our foreign policy is a huge part of the problem. But then again I guess I don't just get my news from tweets.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

For me, it's the GIGANTIC HUGE DEAL she made fake crying in front of seeing all these children in cages but suddenly being not okay even when that issue is still going on and even worse and making excuses of it.

It's just gross that she's defending a lot of this. Like lady, you cared this much before, maybe act like you still actively give a fuck?

That's exactly it for me.

The situation still sucks, why is she defending it? It doesn't help anybody!

Dancedreamer posted...

I don't see her defending any of it. But then again, I'm not jumping to quick conclusions. She's just saying she's not drawing false equivalence between Trump and Biden. She outright called Biden out on how horrible things are going, and pointed out that our foreign policy is a huge part of the problem. But then again I guess I don't just get my news from tweets.

I dunno man, if someone justifiably points out something is bad, saying "well it could be worse!" is defending it. Some people don't care about that because Democrats are trained to see things be "not the worst it can be" and be ok with it, but some of us want better than that.

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I just want more pictures of AOC sobbing tragically at children in cages and keeping that same energy now instead of talking about "Well both sides are not doing enough but we're doing MUCH better than the terrible thing Trump did."

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I knew AOC would eventually get No True Scotsman'd.

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yeah but she plays among us!!!

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Hey come on lets keep some perspective at least we're not struggling to get her out of office because she fucked an underage kid or something this is pretty minor compared to most politicians and she was already way up on most all the other ones anyway

I do look forward to this upcoming winning political party of the corpse of Bernie Sanders and the three guys from Breadtube who haven't been cancelled yet.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

For me, it's the GIGANTIC HUGE DEAL she made fake crying in front of seeing all these children in cages but suddenly being not okay even when that issue is still going on and even worse and making excuses of it.

It's just gross that she's defending a lot of this. Like lady, you cared this much before, maybe act like you still actively give a fuck?

Yeah I do get this. Those pictures have aged so badly. I'd certainly prefer it if she was actively mad about it.

TBQH the Democratic Party as a whole has handled this terribly from a policy and messaging perspective and I think AOC's stance is a symptom of it. It's completely stupid how the GOP has seized on this and flipped all of a sudden now that they arent in power and you have jackasses like Cruz coming to the border to do his dumb stunts. On the "right" side for completely wrong reasons. I can't even post heartbreaking.jpg because the whole thing is so impossibly cynical. Anyways the Dems could just silence all this by uh...fixing the problem so I don't have too much sympathy here. I can't complain too much about AOC getting dragged.

On a more positive note if anyone has any aid funds worth donating to let me know. I've been donating to RAICES in the past but wanna branch out.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Anyways the Dems could just silence all this by uh...fixing the problem so I don't have too much sympathy here.

Oh wow, I never realized how easy it would be to solve the whole thing. I can't believe the Dems are so evil that they would refuse to just "fix the problem". And that's not just limited to immigration; there are so many issues in the America that could be eliminated if the Dems would just "fix the problem". It's such a simple idea, why won't they just do it?
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Xeybozn posted...

It's such a simple idea, why won't they just do it?

trademark infringement. nike beat them to it.

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https://youtu.be/ZXsQAXx_ao0

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It certainly explains why GOP messaging of "it's broke and we'll fix it" without offering any details on how they'll go about it is so popular among Americans.

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Xeybozn posted...

Oh wow, I never realized how easy it would be to solve the whole thing. I can't believe the Dems are so stupid that they would refuse to just "fix the problem". And that's not just limited to immigration; there are so many issues in the America that could be eliminated if the Dems would just "fix the problem". It's such a simple idea, why won't they just do it?

Fixed one word and yes exactly, now youre getting it.

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TheRock1525 posted...

It certainly explains why GOP messaging of "it's broke and we'll fix it" without offering any details on how they'll go about it is so popular among Americans.

It explains how Biden got elected at least!

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I love the political expertise on display here that is akin to Twitch chat explaining to a speedrunner how to play a video game.

In ongoing news, the Capitol is on lockdown after a guy rammed a car into to officers and brandished a knife.
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Xeybozn posted...

Oh wow, I never realized how easy it would be to solve the whole thing. I can't believe the Dems are so evil that they would refuse to just "fix the problem". And that's not just limited to immigration; there are so many issues in the America that could be eliminated if the Dems would just "fix the problem". It's such a simple idea, why won't they just do it?

I was being hyperbolic but there are legitimate things they could be doing that would be better quick fixes than building more detention centers to stuff more people into. Bare minimum is at least pay for actual shelter in hotels or elsewhere, or social workers, or Biden actually getting ICE to step down. Even if these sloppy quick fixes require Congressional approval and not just executive action, they can do that, except that would require consensus and getting rid of the filibuster which uh...again circles around to being the problem of the Democrats, the people in power. You know what I mean, no need to get snarky about it. Do not treat them like they are completely powerless, the reality is just that it isn't a political priority at the moment.

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They are pretty close to powerless so long as they need votes from Sinema and Manchin.

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TheRock1525 posted...

They are pretty close to powerless so long as they need votes from Sinema and Manchin.

true but in those cases xybozn's hyperbolic strawman about dems being evil and tony's retort about them being stupid are literally correct lmao

and even then my position on those chumps is that Dems should do whatever it takes to get them to play ball, I understand they are real obstacles but at the same time I'm not a fan of ceding all the party's responsibility and agency to those two

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I mean, how much pressure can you put on Manchin before he goes "fuck it" and joins the GOP? Because despite being once super popular in WV, his last election was significantly closer and moving to the GOP would probably help his re-election chances.

Sinema, I'll give you, but trying to play hardball with a democrat senator from a state that leans almost +30 GOP is an incredibly fine-line to walk.

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No posts about the Capitol incident?

Wonder what the motive was. But now that he is dead we may never know

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For AOC specifically the problem is that it's kinda important to point out things are better, even if they're still awful. If Trump had the orphan crushing machine running at 100% capacity and Biden has it at 50%, that's still an important improvement even if nowhere near good enough. The problem is way too many people bothsides things and that leads to people putting it back to 100% because they've been told it's the same thing. By all means keep fighting to dismantle the orphan crushing machine for good, but it's important to acknoledge improvements along the way.

If AOC said things were fine that'd be awful, but she starts off by saying that this is still unacceptable and hammers that home throughout what she was saying there. She's not saying things are okay. She's saying there's a difference between the Dems and the GOP which is true and an important distinction.

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Both the suspect and one of the officers are dead.
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kevwaffles posted...

I love the political expertise on display here that is akin to Twitch chat explaining to a speedrunner how to play a video game.

LOL why play act the "liberal elite" stereotype like this? You defend Republicans with this analogy too?

JeffreyRaze posted...

If AOC said things were fine that'd be awful, but she starts off by saying that this is still unacceptable and hammers that home throughout what she was saying there. She's not saying things are okay. She's saying there's a difference between the Dems and the GOP which is true and an important distinction.

Yes and no.

When the complaint is "Biden isn't doing enough, this still sucks!" it's absolutely not necessary or important to point out "well things are little better". We're not at a 50% improvement here, there are current more unaccompanied minors in the care of ICE than in January before Biden took office.

EDIT: Source https://www.npr.org/2021/03/11/975916980/number-of-unaccompanied-minors-entering-u-s-soared-in-february

What exactly is the reason or benefit to say "guys it's better!" when people rightfully complain that it still sucks?

Also we're all political junkies so we should be able to understand that "I agree with you (AOC starting by saying its unacceptable)--BUT it's actually better (AOC ending by pointing out its better)" is meaningless right? Why is it less awful to be pandered too lol

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Bare minimum is at least pay for actual shelter in hotels or elsewhere

Biden administration has done this. But because the government is slow af, it will only start kicking in now I think (early April). $87m contract with a nonprofit.

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xp1337 posted...

Biden administration has done this. But because the government is slow af, it will only start kicking in now I think (early April). $87m contract with a nonprofit.

Yeah this is good stuff, but like all things, still not enough.

I know some people think I can never be satisfied, and to an extent that's true, but also I think I and others are justified in being disappointed in how they've handled this when they spent 4 years talking about how bad Trump was doing it--is it so crazy to want and expect big, permanent, actual solutions?

I don't think it is.

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Was AOC responding to people saying Biden sucks, or responding to people saying Biden is as bad as Trump, which is when such a statement is needed? I'll admit I only watched the video that was linked. AOC didn't just say "I agree but..." she repeatedly said that both parties have failed and the current state is unacceptable. I don't see that as pandering, I see that as a message some people need to hear.

As for the current state of things, I'm actually not as fussed about the number of minors compared to the conditions they're in. The problem was never how many people were there as the utterly inhumane treatment of them. Things are still awful, and we need to keep fighting to fix things, but if the voters keep getting hammered by people saying things are the same they're going to believe that.

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It is actually important because if you don't point that out then the literal ghoul party will run with it. Messaging matters, unfortunately. If you don't bother to point out how the gop was worse you have already lost the debate. It isn't the most important thing because this shit is fucked up but can we stop pretending like the distinction doesn't need to be raised.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

It is actually important because if you don't point that out then the literal ghoul party will run with it. Messaging matters, unfortunately. If you don't bother to point out how the gop was worse you have already lost the debate. It isn't the most important thing because this shit is fucked up but can we stop pretending like the distinction doesn't need to be raised.

This is why I have such a big problem with the "both sides" crap. It's literally doing the GOP's job for them.

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HashtagSEP posted...

This is why I have such a big problem with the "both sides" crap. It's literally doing the GOP's job for them.

It's an intentional poke. Shit needs to be addressed and then the distinction becomes obvious. Apply political pressure, make it better, gop in roo-ins

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Its important to shush complaints that things still suck by pointing out the marginal improvements that show how unprepared the Dems were? Every single response to that tweet I shared was people going uhhh, but how is it better? because the improvements arent even visible.

You know how to really keep the GOP from winning?

Actually solving the problem! Radical stuff, I know.

Also SEP this isnt a both sides dialogue. The Republicans are incapable of being better than this, Im expecting the Democrats to actually solve the problems they spent four years saying were inhumane and abhorrent.


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Is anyone shushing you though? That wasn't the vibe I was getting from anyone.

I definitely agree that the best way to win is to actually help people.

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Not me, Im talking about AOC to the comments shes responding to.

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Right, can you link me to the context there? The tweet didn't have what she was responding to. It sounded to me like she was responding to people saying Biden == Trump.

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She was responding to people saying Biden is still keeping kids in cages.

I think this person is saying what Im saying pretty well:

https://twitter.com/raniakhalek/status/1378001169662963714?s=21

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I tried looking for the context, but the townhall was an hour and a half long. I will say every part I did hear was talking about how unacceptable things are and how inadequate Biden's response is. It seems like the hill cherrypicked the one time she wasn't calling for change >_>

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JeffreyRaze posted...

Right, can you link me to the context there? The tweet didn't have what she was responding to. It sounded to me like she was responding to people saying Biden == Trump.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/04/aoc-decries-horrifying-conditions-at-the-border.html?utm_medium=s1&utm_campaign=thecut&utm_source=tw

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A terrorist attacked the US Capitol today and we're not talking about it? Weird.

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Jesse_Pinkman posted...

A terrorist attacked the US Capitol today and we're not talking about it? Weird.

CNN said terrorism was ruled out.

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Yeah, it was from the townhall. Seems to me she wasn't shushing people for critisizing Biden given that's what she was doing. She just took 1% of the time she was talking to say she's not drawing a false equivalence between Trump and Biden. I don't think she did anything wrong here, people are just taking this out of context.

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One dude brandishing a knife doesnt strike me as especially serious or well planned out

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MLB is pulling the All-Star Game and Draft out of Georgia in protest of their voter suppression law.

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masterplum posted...

One dude brandishing a knife doesnt strike me as especially serious or well planned out

If we lived in a society where mass shootings weren't a regular occurrence, it'd probably seem a lot more serious.

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