Lurker > foolm0r0n

Reminds me of playing WoW when BC was about to come out so I had to grind a character up to 60. Only got to like 45, after hundreds of hours. I just used my friend's 60s to play it instead and it was great.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

I joined after dragonspine. Did the first arc and then while going to liyue ran into dragonspine, and thought it was just a little extra area. So I beat the entire thing in one 5 hour sitting. Got kinda burned out on the game after that and didn't get to liyue. When I got back into the game I went to liyue but all the momentum was lost so I haven't done many missions. I mostly jump back in for the special events.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

I always thought the game had a great content design where you could comfortably pick however much you wanted to play. You can skip all the time sinks if you want.

But now there's so much story content that it is overwhelming. There's lots of gates in the story too, so you have to grind through missions just to see the new stuff. I still haven't seen inazuma because of that. It also sucks to have to skip side missions because you don't have time.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

turbopuns3 posted...

you pivoted

I made my 1 comment multiple times since you seemed to miss it, but now I see you're still playing mafia so I get it. Only reason I'm still here is pride but that runs out so fast nowadays.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

turbopuns3 posted...

You just have no ground to stand on here if you're informed and paying attention

On my point that you played the metagame poorly, of course I do

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

How about if the wolves voted you really highly since they were impressed, but the town punished you for not being a team player, so it wasn't enough to get you to top 5.

The point is it's a popularity contest either way. If the goal is to get to the finals so you can win, then the metagame needs to be played in such a way that gets you voted for the finals.

You're like the "master strategists" on survivor who get voted out before the merge and are shocked.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

I dunno, reading all this it does look like you suck to play with

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

GildedFool posted...

hero with the name of one of the 9/11 terrorists

OW 2 spoilers

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

I really couldn't care less about Metroid lore, but it's usually integrated into the gameplay which is pretty cool. Curious what they do here. The atmosphere looks amazing already.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

I feel like I did too, and the high jump

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Waluigi1 posted...

Why are you implying that hooking up is a high school phrase? I hear that from literally everyone.

In high school it matters a lot more. People say it implying that they did more than they did, since it's ambiguous. Also if you're under 25, you'll stop hearing it soon, trust me.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Seginustemple posted...

Oh yeah I was really flexing the high school canon there. Do you have trouble understanding Orwellian and Shakespearean too?

Absolutely, because no one uses them correctly. (Well I dunno about Shakespearean, I don't hear that often.) I'm curious how you would define these if they are so obvious. Let me hear your definition of "hooking up" too, if we're talking high school words.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Similar story on a smaller scale - my partner got passed up for a tech teacher position at the local school, and now they came back to ask her to sub for that same tech teacher position for a couple days

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

and if they don't know what a metroidvania is, they haven't hung around online video game forums

Fixed

And obviously we should optimize game language for those who actually play games, not those ""gamers""

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Seginustemple posted...

"Metroidvania" is like "Kafkaesque" for video games, you really only need a passing familiarity with the reference to understand the term

That's notoriously a word that you say when you want to sound smart for describing something but don't know how, since you have no idea what the word actually means but you also know no one else knows what it means so they'll just go along with it

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

I don't remember when I learned how metroid was organized, probably pre-2008 though

Probably using some common English words like... exploration

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

bro

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

i'll put the answer in spoilers but i want you to guess

What words did you use

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

OoT isn't a metroidvania. Plot flags open areas up, not your abilities. Also, it has distinct dungeons.

So it's Metroid Fusion

Zelda 1 is very much like Metroid 1

MM unlocks areas using abilities much like SM, and even supports some forms of sequence breaking

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

don't waste your time because you already know both terms are equally non-descriptive

I am clearly not worried about wasting my time here. But I don't know why you think your argument is so bulletproof.

Let's take your experiment and ask 1 million non-gamers what an "exploration action" game might entail. What % would mention exploring a world to find keys to unlock doors? Definitely non-zero right? I would say 10% at least. Now what % would say that about "Metroidvania"? Absolutely zero.

Here's another experiment. Show 10 minutes of gameplay from 100 different games to a non-gamer. Ask them to pick out the exploration action games. How well would they do? Now do the same with "Metroidvania". They'll do better???

I'm serious when I say I understand your argument. I just don't get why you think its so convincing.

NeatoAnAccount posted...

I knew what a Metroidvania was before I played my first Metroid.

How, if you have to experience it first?

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Mac Arrowny posted...

A lot of Zelda games fit the bill, honestly. OoT included.

Zelda and Metroid have secretly always had the same design. Looks like that's over with BOTW though :/

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Kenri posted...

It totally does refer to the RPG elements though.

Hence the confusion. To me it doesn't at all.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Also "you have to play this specific video game in order to understand the word that describes it" should be an instant hint that the word sucks. Defeats the whole point of language.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

the answer is the first one

I fully understand your argument but it's extremely dumb.

"Exploration" is literally a word in a dictionary that people use all the time for all kinds of things. You can translate it natively to others language. How the hell would "Metroid" be better understood? I honestly don't know how you believe this argument, but it seems genuine.

Beyond that, you are also arguing that adding "vania" makes the term even more well understood. Even though you need to know:

• It refers to Castlevania
• It refers to just SOTN and not any of a dozen other Castlevanias
  
• It doesn't refer to any of the RPG elements, only the map and abilities
  

How??

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

NeatoAnAccount posted...

You've obviously never taken a linguistics class

lol. Not that you need a class to believe in language descriptivism. That's the part that we agree on btw. I don't agree with your idea that "metroid" and "vania" are equally well understood as "exploration" and "action"

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

andylt posted...

What do the anti-Metroidvania people think of Soulslike/Roguelike as terms?

They're fine because they're saying the game is similar to this other specific game... in theory. In practice, most Roguelikes have nothing to do with Rogue (basically only Necrodancer does), and Soulslike just means you lose money/exp when you die. So, kinda useless.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Jakyl25 posted...

Nonlinear action

GTA?

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Fusion was great cuz the first time you played you legit thought you were finding secret paths everywhere. Excellent illusion that totally falls apart on replay.

I'm skeptical about this game being like SM in that sense though. It might still be more like Fusion.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Kenri posted...

Melee combat, visible stats, usable items, non-essential armor and weapons, enemy drops, NPCs, a viewable bestiary -- all of these are things SotN brought in.

And none have anything to do with Metroid. Literally the only reason it's called Metroidvania is because there's a Metroid-like map and abilities.

So the term just means Metroid-like. The vania part is nonsense that has confused the genre.

NeatoAnAccount posted...

Metroidvania conveys genre because metroidvania is a word in the language english that means "game like metroid"

That's why the lack of awareness in statements like these are pretty surprising. Why the hell do you want to keep the "vania" if it's meaningless at best? Just say Metroid-like. Been doing that for years and it's way more clear. Or SOTN-like if you mean the things kenri mentioned.

And if you want a broader genre than "similar to this one game", then exploration action is perfect.

btw you know you agree with me right? You repeated my exact point but worse.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

"Search" in this context isn't "look for", definitely "explore". Like a search algorithm not a search party.

Leonhart4 posted...

You can, which is why they're categorized as "stage clear" games by Nintendo. The ultimate goal is still just to beat the level.

But this is a good point. We're just talking about the goal genre right now. There are plenty of other types of genre, and subgenres. So we can break it down like this:

Goal genres: Exploration, stage clear, arcade/highscore, race, battle royale
Action genres: platforming, traversal, shooting, combat, crafting, puzzle

Mario is a stage clear platformer, and Hotline Miami is a stage clear twin stick shooter. Robotron is an arcade twin stick shooter. Tetris 99 is a battle royale puzzle, and regular Tetris is an arcade puzzle.

(Another type would be narrative genre: Horror, thriller, fantasy, cartoon, adventure)

With Metroidvania, it seems to be trying to find the intersection of genres for Metroid and SOTN. So exploration is the goal, and traversal combat for the action. Leveling and shooting are not shared so they aren't part of it.

Lots of games have an exploration goal, like Outer Wilds. But that game's action is puzzle instead of combat. Though it still has traversal, and it shares the alien narrative genre, so it feels pretty Metroidy overall.

This is really the only way to make sense of genres, and why game databases use a tag-based genre system. Very few classic genres are broken down in this way which is why they're nonsense.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Leonhart4 posted...

You search for secret exits in Super Mario World, and that's a pretty big part of the gameplay. A lot of traditional platformers have key items you search for in addition to just trying to get to the end of the level. For instance, you can't beat every level in Sonic 3 & Knuckles without finding all the Chaos Emeralds. It's just too vague of a term to capture what they're going for.

You can beat 90% of those games without exploring

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Hoping this will at least be watchably mediocre

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

LiS is a good one, also Undertale. But TF2 is the epitome of this. I never even heard of it once before I got the Orange Box (was obviously super hyped for Portal, and was interested in HL2). Didn't stop playing for around 10 years.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

LeonhartFour posted...

you "search" for things in most action games after all

If you mean audio logs or like ammo packs, it's not the main thing in the gameplay. Every shooter, platformer, and even puzzle game nowadays has RPG mechanics for example, but that doesn't make RPG a bad name (it's bad for other reasons).

Some collectathons like Banjo Kazooie are definition "search" games though, but it also makes a lot of sense to put them in the same genre as Metroid.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

It's way more to the point than Metroidvania. For one, the term has nothing to do with 90% of Castlevania games. You have to know that the term was created during a specific time 20+ years ago when SOTN was popular. And it says nothing about what part of Metroid it's about. Is it the aliens, the shooting, the abilities, the exploration, the platforming? Role Playing Game and Roguelike are similarly nonsensical, and FPS is not as intuitive as it seems as first either.

So effectively everyone just memorizes what Metroidvania and other genre terms refer to after a while. It's easy to add Search/Exploration Action in the mix, especially since it's more intuitive than most genres.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Epyo posted...

search action just sounds like knuckles stages

exploration action would be better

The Japanese word used could be translated as exploration. But also, Knuckles stages are kind of in the same genre as Metroid.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Leonhart4 posted...

Search action doesn't adequately convey what genre you're talking about. I wouldn't understand what that meant in a vacuum without this topic.

Ok now explain how Metroidvania conveys genre in a vaccum. Or RPG or FPS.

Genres only mean anything in context in the first place.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

KingButz posted...

search action is awful

Why?

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Could also be exploration action, but yeah these names were always better

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

bump

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

DeepsPraw posted...

okay I'm not familiar with office culture, but why are you bringing an infant to work with you?

Because you live at the office

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

You can't do "Outer Wilds 2" now that I know all the tricks the first game used and have the same effect unless you create some bizarro alien physics engine.

You can get pretty close with this knowledge exploration gameplay structure though. More reductively, if you think of it as Majora's Mask 2, you could totally have Majora's Mask 3. It's just extremely hard to make a game like this, which is why it's rare. But any game like this is gonna be effective.

Like if they make a hello kitty game in this format, you would love hello kitty by the end (someone plz make this btw)

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Also the sensitive controls and danger are totally necessary to make the game feel more real and physical. It's a game about physics after all. If navigation was really easy then the game would essentially be an elaborate sudoku. That's worth losing a few mins here and there.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Holy shit I never thought we'd see this, especially so soon. I wonder how much content there is.

Also I get the sentiment that the original is perfect and should be left alone. But I can't imagine finishing the game and not immediately thinking I NEED MORE. It's a really good structure to add more, really. Could easily have bi-yearly sequels with totally different stories. Would be way better than a bunch of Assassin's Creeds.

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

BSSM, Hump de Bump, Fight Like a Brave (cuz thps)

Shout out to Aeroplane, Zephyr Song as underrated

Oh yeah Tell Me Baby too

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

That job sounds cool but completely attainable, especislly with your background which seems pretty appropriate. That makes for a pretty shit dream. But it might be a nice reality for a while. You always gotta keep looking for the next thing!

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Johnbobb posted...

I'm not happy about it either

wtf

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Menji posted...

Yes, whatever they put on them at Korean restaurants makes them 10/10

Salt sugar and vinegar

Works with the majority of foods

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance

Plain or sliced or pickled, it's always great. Cooked is weird but it can work. Slicing them into a mixed drink is low-key the best though.

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_foolmo_
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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

You also have no context for what the details of their relationship were.

That's true. Actually I just critically thinked about it for 45 minutes and I realized there's no reason it couldn't have been a gamefaqs user who convinced her to commit suicide by blackmailing her and paying her coworkers $15000 each to pretend to show her pictures around at the company event. This gamefaqs user must have been exceedingly intelligent, yet also prideful enough to boast about it publicly and subtly. They would hate to see someone else take credit for this kill and would be adamant there was another explanation...

What's your full name and the number of your closest police station again BT?

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_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance