Lurker > Lopen

Michael Westen
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lopen posted...

Kanz's claim does not make sense. As said it is countered by Leo2. He is a safety valve lynch for me but if we got to do it now we do it now

...So why weren't you on him before when Corrik claimed a scan?

Corrik was that scan real?

Fuck, Kanz is riding this Johnbob lynch too hard, but Johnbob is definitely scum.

Because that scan info never goes away so it was a percentage play.
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Corrik posted...

Lopen posted...

Corrik if I guarantee a claim tomorrow will you not shoot me

Gimme flavor now or u die

N
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Corrik if I guarantee a claim tomorrow will you not shoot me
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Kanz's claim does not make sense. As said it is countered by Leo2. He is a safety valve lynch for me but if we got to do it now we do it now
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I have to try something words do not work.
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Shoot me if you want of everyone to get shot in this town you'd pick me I don't care at that point
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I will jump to Kanzaris over Johnbobb here if that'll encourage someone that isn't johnbobb to get lynched this train is SO FOUL

##Unvote: death
##vote: Kanzaris
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Leo3L posted...

Regardless of JohnBobb's flip, I feel like Lopen is scum here. Either defending a buddy because he thinks he can, or defending foolish Town to look good. Because he's making up a lot of anti-Ulti sentiment I just don't see in 99% of JB's posts.

There wasn't a LOT because he didn't post a LOT.

What reaction there was to Ulti was negative though
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Fight all day for death, johnbobb takes the lead at the last second. Vintage b8 town
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I don't think you read them in the moment, no, which gives you a better feel for the general vibe towards ulti vs how far he'd gone in his implosion process. I wish I could argue with post quoting to show you what I mean (or refresh myself --pretty sure I'm right though) but I am on a phone here
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No that was only when votes started coming. You should read more of the game instead of just using double voter as a crutch.
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And? Read his posts. Voting records are practically pointless for Ulti.
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Leo3L posted...

Lopen posted...

I don't know why johnbobb has to say ' this role is bs for town' btw. He can just be more inclined to support arguments against the guy whose role he doesn't believe

Or like, vote him at any point during the day

You don't need to vote him. Especially considering Ulti was a lynch leader for much of the day and self destructed at the end. Just read his posts.
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Johnbobb always showed suspicions of Ulti iirc and frankly Ulti didn't need the counterclaim push. It's dumb to expect him to have been compelled to counter at any point
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I don't know why johnbobb has to say ' this role is bs for town' btw. He can just be more inclined to support arguments against the guy whose role he doesn't believe
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Not claiming today. Waste something on me if you want. I feel like there are much better things to if you want though.

Eddv makes perfect sense as a bulletproof btw, and I'm not sure why the Survivor and bulletproof can't co-exist in the same setup?
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2a btw, if you really think Ben is obvtown and not likely scum, is that he did that to implicitly gain some trust with Ben. There's some utility there.

Basically I see a lot of reasons to do it

Anyway I'm going to be gone for the next 4-5 hours, but should be here with a good hour minimum before deadline. Death is still the right lynch, though. Even if you're not convinced from this angle, go look at the many angles brought up before. MZero's post early day 2 should've been checkmate enough imo. That it needs to be built upon even more is absurd.
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If you glanced at the post you should've absorbed it in full

It is literally one line
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htaeD posted...

heck
the only reason I even remember Eaeds kid today was because I glanced at his posts in topic4

BTW this doesn't make any sense because the only time he mentions his kid in topic 4 was to say my kid has recovered and I will be more active.
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@MenuWars

I think he has cracked twice now and you just refuse to see it

If you want some examples of logical moves that makes claiming pjbasis make sense...

1. WiFOM for people like you. "Why would he do it after all this murmuring about pjbasis!" In a lot of ways it's more credible now than it would be had pjbasis not been mentioned at all. I kinda hate those arguments, but it's kinda true.
2. An attempt to "clear" Ben who had been getting heat for claiming pjbasis at the beginning of the game (heat he may have taken as higher than it was as he was particularly active during those points)-- this is actually a really bad move in the long run because if he flips scum it gives weight to the idea that pjbasis was on the safelist, but it could make sense in the moment if you're not thinking far ahead and just claiming.

Just to name two potential reasons. Further, for saying "scum Death cracks quickly" that's precisely what he did when making the claim to begin with!

And the whole "this player is good, how would they play so badly as scum!" is not a good argument to begin with. As scum you only need to play to the level of the people in your game anyway. If not for me and MZero the pressure on Death would be very low after his claim and that would be the end of it. In some ways it's still good scum play, it's just not good enough.
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htaeD posted...

again
I didnt have awareness of the kids 'sickness' anymore today
I just knew it was something to do with his son, because I saw the word 'son' in that post of his

I literally quoted a post from you that said "sick kid" in it.
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To clarify I don't think eaed would lie about his kid that's just too far

However, Death having more awareness of the kid's sick situation than your average player would due to a higher prominence of the information on the scumboard? Yeah. Makes a lot of sense to me-- no one else in the game has mentioned the kid and Death has twice now (eaed has had no other family issues he has mentioned-- trying to make it seem like you weren't implicitly talking about the kid just makes you worse there)
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btw that's topic 4 post 122 on the second eaed quote.

Stupid mafia not letting me edit.
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MenuWars posted...

I mean there was a contradiction there, but still... you seem to be reaching pretty hard here Lopen. For one if Eaed had mentioned family issues on the scumboard Death would be MORE aware, not Less that the kid has recovered... and if he's trying to cover for him why would he even bring him up when the rest of the game seems completely oblivious to him?

Not necessarily. Because scumboard isn't always trying to validate themselves to other scum, nor is it always social hour on the scumboard.

I'd imagine eaed said "word of warning scumbuddies my kid is sick so I'm going to be inactive day 1 but I'll try to not be too terrible" in an earlier post on the scumboard, and then didn't immediately update them with "oh I'll be more active now because my kid is better!" because it wasn't very important to mention and it isn't a social board.
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I think it's curious that over half a day later you were able to immediately recall eaed had a sick kid on post 304, when really he hadn't actually been making too many excuses this game, and what he had been had mostly been work based.

But the jump between kid and son is just TOO MUCH!
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Eaed meanwhile, has only mentioned it once. Topic 3, post 40.

eaedwards6400 posted...

Just at the moment because my son is sick at home so I had even less time than usual. That being said the deadline for my project at work was yesterday so I should be good to get back to work here in mafia.

And then again, topic 3, post 122

eaedwards6400 posted...

Btw, my son is feeling better and my project at work has been turned in so I should be good to go.

Which I again will note is but one post after the post death just quoted immediately, after he admitted to looking through eaed posts! How would you miss this!
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Just like 40 posts ago

htaeD posted...

every time I think I want to lynch Eaed for not being here
I remember his excuses about his family

Topic 3, post 304

htaeD posted...

Ugh and every inactive has a 'reason' for it
sick kid (Eaed)
Hawai (Shad)
anniversary and stuff (Tony)
being a doublevoter (Okay no excuse, but a good reason to leave Leo alone for now)

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Do you want a wild theory?

Eead and Death are both scum, and Death is overplaying the "sick family" card because eaed has posted it a lot on the scumboard.

Would you believe Eaed only mentioned his kid being sick once in passing in this game? I didn't even think he'd mentioned the kid, and on reread of the first three topics it turns out he has only mentioned the kid once-- in fact at this point Death has mentioned the kid being sick more than eaed has, as he also mentioned it late in topic 3 when he observed that all the inactives had excuses.

What's more, eaed has since claimed his kid has recovered, at the beginning of Day 2! That excuse doesn't really fly anymore, and that Death noticed the one time he posted about the kid being sick over the one time he posted about the kid having recovered is rather strange to me, particularly because the recovering kid post was in a place that stuck out more. Notably, one post after the post Death just posted.
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So do you think eaed appears more or less scummy after having found that post?
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Death how did you produce that vote so quickly? Have you been going back and ctrl+fing eaed posts as well?
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Eaed voted you because you claimed you scan as town.
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How many excuses would you estimate he's given about his family this game Death? 5? I wonder how long the kid can really really be sick without it escalating a bit to the point of panic or not being as big a deal. I feel like the peak of a sickness would only last so long and it would be relatively more calm around that.
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I think eaed might actually be the right lynch today. I finally got around to actually reading his posts from topic 1 and 2. He doesn't even post till topic 2. In topic 2 rather than apologizing it feels more like an excuse, because he turns around after giving the excuse to make empty observations like "I think Corrik and Ulti are making a show" and "I'm not sure how I feel about ____." It just feels really unauthentic-- compared to CT eaed to me felt like he was basically just wringing his hands the whole time.

Also the fact that he hasn't gotten much of any votes today is rather suspicious.
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I would rather not talk about the safelist meta further because frankly I don't think it's important here and it's distracting from why Death is scum anyway.

I'll safe that for the mafia discussion topic.
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No you never safelist Crono or Magus. You safelist Merle.
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A safelist having Crono or Magus is much MUCH less likely than a random unnamed Goblin as they would be shoe ins to actually be in the setup regardless of whether the role even fits. Marle or Robo would be more on whether roles in the setup fit them, and whether you want those roles.

Basically a safelist is going to have two things:

1. Minor players.
2. Middle of the road players who clearly fit a role, but you don't want the role in your game.
3. Middle of the road players who you just didn't have room for, presumably for reasons better than including minor players in the game.

The in game flavor list is going to have.

1. Major players.
2. Middle of the road guys that have a perfect role fit that weren't covered by the major players.
3. Middle of the road guys that don't have a good role fit as vanilla.

Obviously there will be some exceptions, but give me a generic goblin as being safelisted over a generic goblin being actually in the game every time, particularly in a flavor scheme as overloaded as mercenaries 4, having over double the obvious flavors to draw from as there are player slots.

Anyway, let's get off that for a bit-- the biggest reason is that your rationale of protecting the idea that you drew vanilla is at odds with the fact that you claimed as quickly as you did. It would have been very easy to escape day 1 without claiming. You claimed when pressure hadn't really reached a critical point at all-- you could've just remained hidden for another day if you really felt it was vital that vanillas remain hidden.
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Also "Chris was on the safelist" is a bad argument against me having an idea of what roles should and shouldn't be in this game considering I'd said on many occasions there was a good chance he was a safelisted claim!

I mean don't get me wrong I'm sure there will be some surprises but to say safelist/flavor meta has no place whatsoever is absurd-- Mercenaries 4 had its Cronos, Maguses, etc, and it also has its random unnamed goblin enemies aka pjbasis. You just don't realize it because you didn't play the game but yeah.
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I just think someone who is vanilla isn't going to be protective of what they are-- like the best way to draw a bullet as vanilla is to actually scumhunt. Trying to 'protect your role' is counterintuitive to what a vanilla mindset should be-- you should have no fear of death, particularly if that's your name.

Also hi everybody I have returned from slumber.
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Safelist flavor seems best suited for generally low impact players in m4, which pjbasis was, with a smattering of more prolific players that didn't fit anywhere.

I mean there were 24 players in the game, and then admins, and replacements-- there are more than enough candidates for every role, even vanillas.
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htaeD posted...

its not vanilla?? > pjbasis??
its pjbasis?? > vanilla??

As admin of mercs my reaction to pjbasis having been a claim was pjbasis?? > safelist?? Mere familiarity with pjbasis having been in mercs shouldn't really be pinging anyone's radar whatsoever. And I don't think you were thinking that far ahead-- like protecting that you're a vanilla should be one of your lowest priorities particularly considering you'd already been generating suspicion anyway.

Anyway main factor that hasn't been considered enough: Lynching Death has less potential damage if we're wrong since Kanzaris's role seems strong. Doubly so because Corrik hasn't actually scanned him-- really don't think we should lynch Kanzaris today. BTW did Corrik ever say who he did scan I seem to have missed this.
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There are just like, so many possible vanillas. Anyone with knowledge of mercs isn't going to have pjbasis anywhere near their radar-- if anything it works against because he played like 5% of the game. Frankly I had my doubts on the legitimacy of the claim to begin with as he seems way too inconsequential to take a slot in a game where there are only 18 slots-- only reason I didn't press it harder is I figured "well there's a chance gravy was cute because pjbasis is an active mafia guy" and well, bigger fish to fry.

pjbasis is almost certainly on the scum safelist and this was a slip of the highest order-- would suggest we look harder at Benjamin too should Death flip because I'm still not convinced that was played hard enough as a joke.
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I think Death is the right lynch today. That post by Mzero feels very checkmate. While I find Corrik's cop claim believable, it remains on the table forever. There's no reason we can't simply wait to lynch Kanzaris until we have a non checkmate option on the table (or we're at Lynchlose). So why rush it? We can wait till Corrik dies and know 100% he's telling the truth, then do the lynch there. As it stands now fakeclaiming cop and lynching a town is a possibility so why not just remove that? If he's actually the cop he doesn't survive long anyway.
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Like, I see you said "I didn't want people to think I was pjbasis who could only be vanilla" but like, what? Why would anyone think that? And I mean you weren't exactly slow to claim pjbasis as vanilla so that doesn't even wash.
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Tell me Death what's the reason for misdirection here. What was your end game?

Also

##Vote: Death Cause it ain't Twitter
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#Vote: Death

Well done MZero.
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If it was literally only that one thing JBL did that sent him flipping over the edge I would frankly call JBL the victim here as much as Mauro. Known Bipolar or not it's not really fair to expect a guy to react that way over a tweet. Someone so fragile would be best served staying away from Twitter in general.

But realistically, knowing his rep, it was probably far from the only thing JBL did and that was just the tipping point.
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Well I posted the archive. I don't have time to read through it till late today. Anyone that does should and comment on what they wanna comment on.
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Obviously you can search for other stuff too.
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http://logfaqs.com/topic.php?id=75192944

Courtesy of GMUN.
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