Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 376: Pigs in Space

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i legitimately don't get why you keep saying this. when the hell did i "try to get you to be ruder to someone else"? why would i do that? was there a part in any of my posts where i went "KEVWAFFLES YOU SHOULD TOTALLY CALL TONY AN ASSHOLE" that i completely forgot about?

i don't see what's "glib" about implying that i'm some kind of idiot who stumbles around this board constantly misunderstanding people.

Lasa what hes trying to say is he wants to call ME the idiot.

Anyway: https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1422663881479053312?s=21


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Corrik7 posted...

And, he can't literally mandate is across the country (Though I think they actually can with... didn't they will smallpox?)... But, they can refuse to give any federal money to states that don't do it... which in effect... mandates it.

This works better as a long term threat. Also he would be eaten alive.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lasa what hes trying to say is he wants to call ME the idiot.

Also no. To put it in a word, I was calling you smug.
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Biden now calling for Cuomo to resign as well. (He had previously stated that Cuomo should resign if the investigation found the allegations to be true and he was just asked about it since you know... the AG office's investigated was now completed.)

It's Cuomo though so no chance of that, they'll have to impeach him.

Albany DA has opened a criminal investigation as well.

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"Andrew Cuomo should resign" might be the most bipartisan stance in US politics today.
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kevwaffles posted...

"Andrew Cuomo should resign" might be the most bipartisan stance in US politics today.

Still fuck the poor I think

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Still fuck the poor I think

Will you accept unilateral instead?
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I hadnt realized because my wife who is Active Duty got it right after I did, but the Covid vaccine isnt mandatory for military members right now.

I noticed because an active duty friend of mine is literally posting vaccine fear-mongering shit on FB right now, and its wild to see.

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It is wild and it's everywhere.

And even if you meticulously comb over every detail you ultimately boil down to "well I don't want it because I don't want it" and "I don't trust it because I don't trust it."

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kevwaffles posted...

This works better as a long term threat. Also he would be eaten alive.

I think him being eaten alive and saving lives is a fair compromise. How he is viewed shouldn't be a concern when it comes to saving American lives. It's why I said he was being a pussy about it.

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I believe recent polling on vaccine mandates has actually had them decently over 50%. With delta I think most people who are vaccinated are finally getting fed up with baseless concerns about vaccines preventing everything from returning to normal.

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He probably gets more people vaccinated at this point by coming out against them and saying all Republicans should never get them than he would with a federal mandate

bonus points if he can get Obama and Hillary on to say how scared they are of Trumps vaccines and how theyre coming for them just like theyre coming for your guns

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More receipts coming out of DOJ from the end days of the Trump administration:

https://twitter.com/alex_mallin/status/1422728769584906242

Draft letter from the Acting Assistant AG (Clark) that he wanted the acting AG to send out after the election. It urged Georgia to not certify the results of the election there. It goes further to state the Department believes those crazy alternate elector slates were legitimate and that the legislature should consider just appointing its own electors if necessary regardless of the popular vote to force Congress to take up a Trump slate of electors.

Thankfully the Acting AG of the time refused to issue that letter but jesus christ how close we came to a coup. Georgia is the primary subject of the letter but it explicitly notes "and several other states" when discussing "irregularities" and the alternate elector slates.

Also this ties into the previous news that came a few days ago from DOJ that Trump was, in calls with the DOJ at the time, engaging in his usual "Tons of people are telling me..." about replacing DOJ leadership and putting Clark in power and well, this is the letter Clark wanted.

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Biden extending the eviction moratorium the day after announcing he couldnt because it was illegal immediately after the Supreme Court said it was illegal but the logistics of ending it immediately didnt make it worth it are everything wrong with this country.

If Trump did this people would be yelling for him to be arrested

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It's definitely unlawful and will be struck down again (and I imagine the Biden admin knows that). Congress is the entity with the power to enact such a ban.

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People should not be ok with politicians doing things they know are unlawful and forcing the courts to stop them.

That is literally what Trump did when he refused to pay bills and forced his business contractors to sue him for payment.

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TBC I agree with that.

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masterplum posted...

If Trump did this people would be yelling for him to be arrested

not sure why you're acting like people aren't yelling for biden to be arrested.

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masterplum posted...

Biden extending the eviction moratorium the day after announcing he couldnt because it was illegal immediately after the Supreme Court said it was illegal but the logistics of ending it immediately didnt make it worth it are everything wrong with this country.

Everything wrong with this country is that congress didn't get their sorry asses up and extend the moratorium and instead went on vacation. Not to mention that they won't do anything with healthcare. Or gun violence. Or pretty much anything that doesn't involve enriching politicians and their friends. We could easily have a homelessness crisis on TOP of a pandemic. But Republicans don't give a shit, and moderate democrats don't either. THAT is what is wrong with this country.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Everything wrong with this country is that congress didn't get their sorry asses up and extend the moratorium and instead went on vacation. Not to mention that they won't do anything with healthcare. Or gun violence. Or pretty much anything that doesn't involve enriching politicians and their friends. We could easily have a homelessness crisis on TOP of a pandemic. But Republicans don't give a shit, and moderate democrats don't either. THAT is what is wrong with this country.

Overthrowing democracy because the democracy isn't working has been the playbook of every single dictator that upended democracy since Julius Caesar

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masterplum posted...

Overthrowing democracy because the democracy isn't working has been the playbook of every single dictator that upended democracy since Julius Caesar

You're saying Dictators are the problem. They aren't. The problem is Democracy. When it doesn't work, it allows dictators to rise. Maybe stop blaming dictators, and blame Democracy and demand better from them, instead of allowing dicators to rise in the first place.

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What we have isn't really a democracy though.

And the reforms being proposed to bring it more in line with one are being obstructed by the ones who benefit from it not being democratically representative.

Like literally the GOP might retake the House this midterm solely through redistricting and gerrymandering to gain enough seats from that to overcome the actual margin in the House. Think I've seen it projected they can gain like 6-13 seats by gerrymandering ... in GA, FL, NC, and TX alone.

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Stop blaming dictators might be the most inferno hot take I have ever seen.

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masterplum posted...

Stop blaming dictators might be the most inferno hot take I have ever seen.

So you decide not to address my points, and just throw out a stupid comment as usual. Typical, for a centrist who can't FATHOM why people get fed up with democracy when it doesn't work.

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Still pushing back on this being a faut of democracy so much as the fact that we are NOT a democracy, just a Frankenstein's monster that calls itself one to make itself seem better and the mask has been stretched to the point where the rips and tears exposing the rot underneath is just impossible to not see unless you choose to be willfully ignorant about our electoral system.

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xp1337 posted...

Still pushing back on this being a faut of democracy so much as the fact that we are NOT a democracy, just a Frankenstein's monster that calls itself one to make itself seem better and the mask has been stretched to the point where the rips and tears exposing the rot underneath is just impossible to not see unless you choose to be willfully ignorant about our electoral system.

It's a fault of our system not working, however you want to look at it. Centrists will cry and moan anytime you go outside the system -- but then turn around and do fuck all about the problems that people face that cause people to seek going outside the system in the first place.


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Dancedreamer posted...

So you decide not to address my points, and just throw out a stupid comment as usual. Typical, for a centrist who can't FATHOM why people get fed up with democracy when it doesn't work.

What are you looking for? "Correct! Democracy is bad and we should return to the Monarchy"?

xp is correct we need to fix gerrymandering etc, but there isn't a better alternative.

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I just watched a Dave Cullen video. Big mistake. He's acting like more and more people are waking up to the idea that Covid is a hoax.

...how is Covid a hoax? How does one fabricate a global pandemic exactly? Isn't the virus very much real?

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masterplum posted...

What are you looking for? "Correct! Democracy is bad and we should return to the Monarchy"?

I'm looking for putting the blame where it lies: Address the root causes, rather than the result of root causes.

Or maybe you're totally okay with creating more homeless people, so long as we don't break the rules of the system because the rules are more important than the people.

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So what exactly are you proposing that is going to solve the problem

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masterplum posted...

So what exactly are you proposing that is going to solve the problem

I'm not sure there is a solution, at least not within our current system. The duopoly has zero interest in solving any real crisis because it doesn't make them money. Too many people don't want to fix the system, because to them it's working just fine by not working for other people. Until we change that, anything else we do is putting on duct tape and hoping it holds.

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xp1337 posted...

What we have isn't really a democracy though.

And the reforms being proposed to bring it more in line with one are being obstructed by the ones who benefit from it not being democratically representative.

Like literally the GOP might retake the House this midterm solely through redistricting and gerrymandering to gain enough seats from that to overcome the actual margin in the House. Think I've seen it projected they can gain like 6-13 seats by gerrymandering ... in GA, FL, NC, and TX alone.

Um, yikes! Any good articles about this?

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Seanchan posted...

Um, yikes! Any good articles about this?

Not as comprehensive as I'd like but this seems okay for a primer.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/will-republicans-gerrymander-house-majority.html

Beyond that, IIRC, a few Republicans have actually just straight-up stated that redistricting in and of itself should regain them the majority but I don't feel like digging up the quotes.

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We unironically should ignore the Supreme Court on evictions, the vaccine mandate, and other things. As mentioned, our system of government is not a democracy. Parts of it DO need to be overthrown: the anti-democratic parts. There is very little to be gained by working within a system that so far has refused to adequately reform itself. When the rules are literally being used to make the country less democratic and more fascist, there's not much reason to respect the rules.

It's actually cool and good to break the law for good reasons.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Everything wrong with this country is that congress didn't get their sorry asses up and extend the moratorium and instead went on vacation. Not to mention that they won't do anything with healthcare. Or gun violence. Or pretty much anything that doesn't involve enriching politicians and their friends. We could easily have a homelessness crisis on TOP of a pandemic. But Republicans don't give a shit, and moderate democrats don't either. THAT is what is wrong with this country.

When exactly does the moratorium end though? Like, I feel like this is something we haven't discussed as a country? By all accounts, the economy is pretty much where it was before. Yet, we still are continuing to extend these deadlines over and over. When does it exactly stop?

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xp1337 posted...

Not as comprehensive as I'd like but this seems okay for a primer.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/will-republicans-gerrymander-house-majority.html

Beyond that, IIRC, a few Republicans have actually just straight-up stated that redistricting in and of itself should regain them the majority but I don't feel like digging up the quotes.

A very sobering article. With the increases in data/technology it seems like gerrymandering will only continue to get worse.

You would think (haha) that there's an eventual breaking point, right? It's one thing to have, say 60% R reps vs. 47% R votes, and quite another to have 75% R reps for 42% R votes. But I guess you'd never need to have it be that "bad" as all that's truly important is 50%+1 reps.


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I linked this video last topic, but AlphaPhoenix made a great video about how easy it would be to effectively "gerrymander" while making plausible looking district shapes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq-Y7crQo44

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Seanchan posted...

You would think (haha) that there's an eventual breaking point, right? It's one thing to have, say 60% R reps vs. 47% R votes, and quite another to have 75% R reps for 42% R votes. But I guess you'd never need to have it be that "bad" as all that's truly important is 50%+1 reps.

Depends on what you mean by "breaking point." As the article points out, you need new laws to prevent this from a legal standpoint. Without those, there is no breaking point - the system is working as intended. The Supreme Court is pro-gerrymandering as long as it's not discriminatory against protected classes, and even then you must PROVE it was done to discriminate as opposed to gain political advantage, which is fine. Republicans will cement their advantage and unlike Democrats I don't see them going "hmm we are winning too much now let's dial it back."

If by "breaking point" you mean "the populace gets fed up and starts doing political violence" then maybe! It already happened once this year so we're part of the way there!

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

We unironically should ignore the Supreme Court on evictions, the vaccine mandate, and other things.

Maybe, but Democratic voters generally think the Supreme Court is doing a good job.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/04/poll-public-opinion-of-supreme-court-sags-over-past-year-502309

Independents were slightly more inclined to support the Supreme Court, with 61 percent approving of its job performance versus 57 percent of Republicans and 59 percent of Democrats. However, that fell within the polls margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.9 percentage points.

GOP respondents support for the court was down substantially from last September, when it registered 80 percent job approval, while the results for independents and Democrats were largely unchanged.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Depends on what you mean by "breaking point." As the article points out, you need new laws to prevent this from a legal standpoint. Without those, there is no breaking point - the system is working as intended. The Supreme Court is pro-gerrymandering as long as it's not discriminatory against protected classes, and even then you must PROVE it was done to discriminate as opposed to gain political advantage, which is fine. Republicans will cement their advantage and unlike Democrats I don't see them going "hmm we are winning too much now let's dial it back."

If by "breaking point" you mean "the populace gets fed up and starts doing political violence" then maybe! It already happened once this year so we're part of the way there!

Yes, I mostly meant the societal breaking point. Certainly I think it's going to take a lot for Ds, as a collective, to reach that point.

I'd say just imagine if it was the Rs facing this issue rather than the Ds but, well, we've already seen how that goes...

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Xeybozn posted...

Maybe, but Democratic voters generally think the Supreme Court is doing a good job.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/04/poll-public-opinion-of-supreme-court-sags-over-past-year-502309

Well yeah I'm not surprised by this. Americans tend to respect institutions, even ones that are less democratic like the SC. And approval for Congress, a "democratic" one is usually in the trash (I'd argue our dysfunctional legislation system contributes to most of the Court's problems but I'm getting off-track). There is a lot going on in this poll, but the bottom line is that the Court is politicized but has tried to avoid partisanship, and so the institutional failings are pretty inside baseball.

I'm not really trying to advocate for direct democracy either. Part of why representative democracy exists is because government do have to do unpopular things. It's just that the inherent structure of our government is unrepresentative and is growing more undemocratic, and the Supreme Court's job is to uphold that structure. I guess I could say the real issues are with the US Constitution (which probably also has a high approval rating), but it's definitely harder to change that than to ignore the court responsible for enforcing it.

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Cuomo's primary defense of "It's cool because here's a bunch of pictures that show you I sexually harass everyone, not just women!"..

That might be the worst defense of a sexual predator yet?

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masterplum posted...

Biden extending the eviction moratorium the day after announcing he couldnt because it was illegal immediately after the Supreme Court said it was illegal but the logistics of ending it immediately didnt make it worth it are everything wrong with this country.

If Trump did this people would be yelling for him to be arrested

LOL he was lying when he said he couldnt do anything, the exact same way Pelosi literally said I just heard about this today the day before it expired.

They were lying because they didnt think the pressure would be there and they could just go

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Biden I don't think was lying. I assume he was operating from the standpoint that he suspects any action he takes from the executive on this will get killed by SCOTUS because SCOTUS basically said they would. Now, admittedly, by going ahead anyway might buy some time simply because it has to work through the courts but I imagine he thinks the end result is they'll overturn an extension on his end. They look like they're hoping that by making it more targeted than the original one maybe it'll be spared but I don't trust this SCOTUS on that front.

Pelosi though... she's just been absolutely awful on this no question. I'm assuming she knows the votes don't exist within the House Dems to pass an extension because of some moderates and therefore didn't even go for the super obvious "pass it in the House and then let the GOP filibuster it and own it." But even if that is the case and she's shielding them by trying to deflect back to the WH her statements on this have been so awful it's beyond excuse.

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I mean, is there any point in extending the moratorium? People who are already months behind on rent, enough so that landlords can put in eviction notices instantly, aren't going to suddenly have it all paid off in a month or two.

It's a fundamental problem with affordable housing and this whole thing was a bandaid on a bullet wound.

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In theory, extending the moratorium could give Congress time to come up with a better solution to the issue, but I guess we all know they won't do that. There's also the whole "trying to prevent the spread of COVID" thing; forcing millions of people into homeless shelters would probably lead to more severe outbreaks.
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when I said I couldn't think of a debate I'd like to watch less than Logan Paul/Candice Owens I didn't mean that as a challenge



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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

when I said I couldn't think of a debate I'd like to watch less than Logan Paul/Candice Owens I didn't mean that as a challenge

I saw one clip of it and Tim Pool was there too, fucking HARD pass


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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

when I said I couldn't think of a debate I'd like to watch less than Logan Paul/Candice Owens I didn't mean that as a challenge

oh come on it can't be THAT b-

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I saw one clip of it and Tim Pool was there too,

...i'm convinced.

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Vaush is a gross fucking cretin and that's the nicest thing I can say about him.

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