Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 376: Pigs in Space

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Wait what's wrong about opposing police action against protesters in Cuba?

Republicans support it so its bad or something

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masterplum posted...

Republicans support it so its bad or something

Yep, thats the reason I have a problem with it. You got it.

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I don't think it's difficult to understand the hypocrisy involved here. In the U.S., police violently crack down on protestors with great regularity and the government does nothing to stop it; in Cuba, the U.S. government is saying the police should not violently crack down on protests. You can't have it both ways. Either the police should not violently crack down on protests, or they should. Which country the protests take place in ought to be immaterial to that question.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

I don't think it's difficult to understand the hypocrisy involved here. In the U.S., police violently crack down on protestors with great regularity and the government does nothing to stop it; in Cuba, the U.S. government is saying the police should not violently crack down on protests. You can't have it both ways. Either the police should not violently crack down on protests, or they should. Which country the protests take place in ought to be immaterial to that question.

Protesting is not homogenous. You wouldn't say protesting china in hing Kong is the same as protesting a tree being cut down in the US

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Neither one of those examples should merit police violence so uhhhh they are actually the same in that regard

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Also as I said before, Colombian Police killed, sexually assaulted, and disappeared protesters literally right before the Cuban protests and we got this:



Hey guys dont do that ok? Anyway, Im glad were friends.


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Sanctions on Cuba don't even work, and aren't intended to work. They're nothing but political theater at the expense of Cuban Citizens. "Look at us! We're doing something!" (accomplishing absolutely nothing. Which is par for the course for American politicians).

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Dancedreamer posted...

Sanctions on Cuba don't even work, and aren't intended to work. They're nothing but political theater at the expense of Cuban Citizens. "Look at us! We're doing something!" (accomplishing absolutely nothing. Which is par for the course for American politicians).

If they didn't work, then it wouldn't effect the Cuban citizens. You can't have it both ways.

Part of the point of sanctions is riling the populace into uprising

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masterplum posted...

If they didn't work, then it wouldn't effect the Cuban citizens. You can't have it both ways.

Part of the point of sanctions is riling the populace into uprising

I'm sure any day now Cubans will all rise up and start a revolution against their government. Any day... we've been at it for how long now?

You're essentially endorsing allowing people to suffer in hopes that one day they overthrow their government. How's that working out again? In the meantime people are suffering and we're supposed to be okay with it. This is the conservative mindset in a nutshell.

They don't work. They DO make people suffer. If making people suffer is the point, then congratulations, I guess?

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My understanding is that the problem is NOT "sanctions as a concept" but rather "sanctions for offenses that we are recently and publicly also guilty of"

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Dancedreamer posted...

They don't work. They DO make people suffer. If making people suffer is the point, then congratulations, I guess?

In fairness, American conservative policy has essentially been "the cruelty is the point" since... Nixon? Possibly earlier?

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"Sanctions on Cuba are an inappropriate response" is a valid opinion.

"We shouldn't respond to Cuban police brutality because we've screwed up elsewhere in similar regards" is, at best, a really poor and unnecessary way to defend that opinion.
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kevwaffles posted...

"Sanctions on Cuba are an inappropriate response" is a valid opinion.

"We shouldn't respond to Cuban police brutality because we've screwed up elsewhere in similar regards" is, at best, a really poor and unnecessary way to defend that opinion.

It's really not though. This hypocritical view helps empower other major global powers to shit talk us and weaken our influence in very negative ways. Like, yeah if you think our reputation means literally nothing in the world sure, let's just keep being hypocritical.

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Counterpoint: Trump praising Duterte was not hypocritical and hurt or reputation way worse than this.
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Look if anytime we mention policy we bring up Trump how about I just kill myself okay? Like we let a horse in the hospital, I am so fucking sick of hearing donald trump's name. Dude's not fucking president. It is not a counterpoint to the grossness that has been our foreign policy for our entire lives, stop acting like it is

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kevwaffles posted...

"We shouldn't respond to Cuban police brutality because we've screwed up elsewhere in similar regards" is, at best, a really poor and unnecessary way to defend that opinion.

good thing that's not at all what tony is saying, then.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

good thing that's not at all what tony is saying, then.

The only reason we're still talking about this is because this is the exactly the type of thing he keeps saying.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Look if anytime we mention policy we bring up Trump how about I just kill myself okay? Like we let a horse in the hospital, I am so fucking sick of hearing donald trump's name. Dude's not fucking president. It is not a counterpoint to the grossness that has been our foreign policy for our entire lives, stop acting like it is

"Gross policy" and "bad reputation" are not as interchangeable as either of us would want them to be.
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kevwaffles posted...

"Gross policy" and "bad reputation" are not as interchangeable as either of us would want them to be.

Yes but in this case they are. Like no one likes to hear about these type of decisions fuel terrorism material against us. Has for al ong time. I don't mean what some posh European thinks of us

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Graham has COVID. He says he was vaccinated.

A lot of the Senate has been going without masks too. All this happening as infrastructure week begins. The bipartisan bill was written up (they are voting on amendments as we speak, and likely will be the next few days) but this could get tricky if it spreads to any Dems because they also planned to get to the reconciliation budget resolution by the end of next week and obviously they can't afford to even a single absence.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yes but in this case they are. Like no one likes to hear about these type of decisions fuel terrorism material against us. Has for al ong time. I don't mean what some posh European thinks of us

In a general sense I can see what you're saying. But as a general rule terrorism really only festers because of perceived injustice and/or potential benefits directly to those in the cause.

So applying that here is, as you said of Tony earlier, throwing the kitchen sink to make your point.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

My understanding is that the problem is NOT "sanctions as a concept" but rather "sanctions for offenses that we are recently and publicly also guilty of"

I mean Sanctions as a concept are problematic. They only serve to cause cruelty, and don't really create change. It's like when you fine a drug company that sells a drug that kills people Millions of dollars, when they made billions off of it. Absolutely worthless.

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kevwaffles posted...

In a general sense I can see what you're saying. But as a general rule terrorism really only festers because of perceived injustice and/or potential benefits directly to those in the cause.

So applying that here is, as you said of Tony earlier, throwing the kitchen sink to make your point.

I mean, our intervention in several areas directly helped terrorists arm and when we go back on our word/are hypocrties it inflames the situation more.

But sure I guess I am kitchen sinking it up

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kevwaffles posted...

The only reason we're still talking about this is because this is the exactly the type of thing he keeps saying.

My guy, Im asking you to think a little deeper.

Why should we be sanctioning Cuba for actions their police took that not ONLY did we take, but one of our allies JUST did worse and we didnt do shit?

Its not about Cuban police beating people is good, its about the hypocritical and uneven application of diplomatic powers to, and lets just say it, influence Cuba to topple its government.

The US government and Secretary of State dont actually care about police brutality, or theyd be consistent about it.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I mean, our intervention in several areas directly helped terrorists arm and when we go back on our word/are hypocrties it inflames the situation more.

But sure I guess I am kitchen sinking it up

These sanctions are basically finger wagging, which is a distinct lack of any substantive intervention in any way, shape, or form. Economic sanctions (which are ongoing but not what happened recently in case the two are being conflated) are a lack of positive intervention. Say what you will about sanctions in any form, but "significant contributor to terrorism" is ludicrous. In some cases it's literally what terrorists want us to do.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

My guy, Im asking you to think a little deeper.

Regardless of my or anyone else's critical thinking ability, you want to make a point here, then make it on your own. Do not act like a teacher asking people to write an essay.

And yeah I know you said more after this, but don't act like it was my responsibility to say it for you.

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kevwaffles posted...

Regardless of my or anyone else's critical thinking ability, you want to make a point here, then make it on your own. Do not act like a teacher asking people to write an essay.

And yeah I know you said more after this, but don't act like it was my responsibility to say it for you.

again, tony's point was not "nobody should criticize police brutality." that's obviously ridiculous and if you're arguing that it is, you're purposefully interpreting his point in the worst way possible. his point was that people on the right going apeshit about police brutality in cuba (the ben shapiros of the world) never say crap about police brutality in the US or even defend said police brutality. hence, this isn't actually about criticizing police brutality, they just want to defend 'murica and attack evil communist cuba.

this is like if a fat person bashes someone else for being fat and tony points out the hypocrisy of that and then you say "oh, so you're saying being fat is healthy and good?!" you can agree with the point someone is making while still attacking their hypocrisy and disingenousness.

seems like most people in this topic understood tony's point, if even if they disagreed, so you can't really use this "i'm not going to do your homework for you" argument. if tony makes a clear point and you misunderstand and misinterpret it, that's your fault, not his.

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Holy shit, Lasa. I'm not saying I misunderstood Tony.
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https://twitter.com/EzraNBC/status/1422326609709776896

Hearing Officer from the NRLB found that Amazon violated labor law in its conduct around that AL unionization vote and is recommending that a second vote be held.

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https://twitter.com/J__Velasquez/status/1422575302627233800

Also, the NY AG's office released its report investigating the sexual harassment accusations against Cuomo. To no one's surprise, they found that yes, yes he did. They said they independently corroborated that he violated federal and state law, sexually harassed multiple women, and took actions to retaliate against a former employee. And that it wasn't just limited to his staff but to other state employees. The above thread has some more details.

Also to absolutely no one's surprise, Cuomo is taking the route of denying it and implied the report was biased, and then portrayed himself as a champion of women who have been victims of sexual harassment and assault.

Schumer, Gillibrand, and others had called for him to resign months ago when the accusations were coming to light but now a few more representatives are hopping on the train

He needed to resign ages ago and if he still refuses the legislature should impeach him.

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Just popping in to say that Biden being a pussy and not federally mandating vaccines to try and pin it on someone else to do it is bad.


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kevwaffles posted...

Holy shit, Lasa. I'm not saying I misunderstood Tony.

then what ARE you saying?

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Corrik7 posted...

Just popping in to say that Biden being a pussy and not federally mandating vaccines to try and pin it on someone else to do it is bad.

The Supreme Court would probably eat this up and hesitancy would rise. Need the states to do it.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

then what ARE you saying?

Something I honestly don't know how to explain to you without being far less tactful than I was able to meagerly manage in the first place.

Look, unless you're trying to weaponize irony, misunderstanding others is probably a topic you should leave alone.
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fuck off

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https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1422645031358320642

Biden administration going to try to do something about evictions. Sounds like reinstating the moratorium in areas with high levels of COVID (but that still ends up covering like 90% of the country?)?

I... don't know how that would stand to a challenge given what SCOTUS said last time but given Congress went AWOL it's all we got right now. =/

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

fuck off

Look, Lasa. When I personally make a point to you that you feel I haven't conveyed properly, I'll explain it in whatever terms you want no matter how blunt. But if I didn't know better I would think you were just trying to troll me into being meaner to someone else.
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How do you post something... and it never show up... and it skips over it in post numbers also? lol Is that a new feature on this site?

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Corrik7 posted...

How do you post something... and it never show up... and it skips over it in post numbers also? lol Is that a new feature on this site?

Like as in your own post you're not seeing?
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If you can see this post say somethingggggggggg. I think my account or GameFAQs is brokeeeeeeee!

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I guess quoting your question was counter-productive.
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seems like the site is glitching out. anyway...

kevwaffles posted...

Look, Lasa. When I personally make a point to you that you feel I haven't conveyed properly, I'll explain it in whatever terms you want no matter how blunt. But if I didn't know better I would think you were just trying to troll me into being meaner to someone else.

then don't respond to me.

first you respond to me, then you insult me, then you go "i'm not arguing with you, this is between me and tony." that's just stupid.

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Dude you can say whatever you want to me and you can argue unprompted on someone else's behalf to your heart's content. But when you're trying to get me to be ruder to someone else, whether intended or not, then I'm going to tell you that I'm not going to do that.

I really thought I was being glib enough not to piss you off, but I probably should have known better.
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kevwaffles posted...

But when you're trying to get me to be ruder to someone else, whether intended or not, then I'm going to tell you that I'm not going to do that.

i legitimately don't get why you keep saying this. when the hell did i "try to get you to be ruder to someone else"? why would i do that? was there a part in any of my posts where i went "KEVWAFFLES YOU SHOULD TOTALLY CALL TONY AN ASSHOLE" that i completely forgot about?

I really thought I was being glib enough not to piss you off, but I probably should have known better.

i don't see what's "glib" about implying that i'm some kind of idiot who stumbles around this board constantly misunderstanding people.

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Corrik7 posted...

How do you post something... and it never show up... and it skips over it in post numbers also? lol Is that a new feature on this site?

This happened to me and then the post showed up a little bit later. So you aren't crazy. Something buggy.

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oh i totally butchered kewaffles's name and i can't see my own posts so i can't edit it dammit

edit: oh nevermind the posts are showing up now

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Lasa let me be clear about something. I don't think you're an idiot. Making that jab at you like that wasn't meant to be a serious indictment of you and I'm legitimately sorry I pissed you off over nothing.
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kevwaffles posted...

Lasa let me be clear about something. I don't think you're an idiot. Making that jab at you like that wasn't meant to be a serious indictment of you and I'm legitimately sorry I pissed you off over nothing.

i'm afraid this apology doesn't mean much because you're contradicting yourself now. if what you're saying here is true, what is the point of your jab? if i'm not a person who regularly misunderstands people on this board, why is your jab funny? like, does your jab work with any random user? would you also say "hey team rocket elite, unless you're trying to weaponize irony, misunderstanding others is probably a topic you should leave alone"? it's clear that you DO think i constantly misunderstand people, hence why you made the jab (even if that doesn't make me an "idiot" in your estimation).

it seems like you now feel bad because i'm pissed off because of your insult and that's why you're going with this "oh no i actually didn't mean it at all it was just a joke" response now, apparently thinking that's what i want to hear... but no, this doesn't work for me. i would like you to be upfront about what you think of me.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i would like you to be upfront about what you think of me.

I think you're thin skinned, honest to a fault, and more than a bit naive at times when it comes to other people's intentions behind their words, at least via text.

None of that makes you stupid.
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red13n posted...

This happened to me and then the post showed up a little bit later. So you aren't crazy. Something buggy.

Yeah they changed how blocking works today and fucked everything up. It's better now.

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Leafeon13N posted...

The Supreme Court would probably eat this up and hesitancy would rise. Need the states to do it.

And, he can't literally mandate is across the country (Though I think they actually can with... didn't they will smallpox?)... But, they can refuse to give any federal money to states that don't do it... which in effect... mandates it.

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