Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 376: Pigs in Space

(+) Yeah! (+)

masterplum posted...

My spouse told me Three less votes for republicans in Florida was not the correct response to reading this.

Well yeah, three Republican voters dying in Florida just means three new Republican voters will move there to replace them. You gotta think these things through.
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masterplum posted...

Well yeah, theres going to be some deaths which are sad, but I honestly think if you are rooting for the human race as a whole, the best outcome is this suddenly becomes twice as deadly. One of the largest factors of if you are going to be vaccinated is your level of societal trust, and eliminating humans with low societal trust is what lets societies collectively come together and survive.

Prior to 300 years ago people with low levels of societal trust just died on their own by wild animals, famine, marauders whatever. Now they dont, and we are seeing why thats a problem.

Uh, my primary concern here are the immuno-compromised who can't get the vaccine, others like kids who can't, and the possibility that with the virus allowed to continue to rampage through large unvaccinated populations allows for the greater chance of a mutation that has a greater ability to breakthrough the vaccinated population.

Your position here sounds extremely uncomfortably like trying to establish an equation where "x number of 'undeserved' deaths still comes out to a net positive if it results in enough disproportionate death among those more deserving" when you come openly hoping the virus gets more deadly.

and like... that's not really the kind of equation i think is at all one we should be trying to come up with. It's basically the eugenics argument repackaged in the from of disease.

Like, I get why a lot of people are just "If they refuse to get vaccinated then so be it, it's on their heads" but even that, to me, misses the mark of the point of the vaccine in containing COVID and ironically plays into the anti-vax, "You got the vaccine right, so why do you care if I didn't?" nonsense by framing it in terms of a individual/personal responsibility instead of a societal one.

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Did not expect "Thanos Was Right" to be today's topic

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I don't want the unvaccinated to die.

But I also don't want them to be the only reason the virus is allowed to continue to circulate and mutate until the protections afforded by the vaccine become useless.

But if they got snapped away for a month and then came back there is a chance that covid would run out of viable hosts. That Thanos idea sounds kind of appealing..

It just sucks that most of the same people who refuse the vaccine are the ones who were less likely to properly socially distance last march/April when we still had a chance to ride COVID-19 out before it got an insurmountable amount of traction.

"You can't make me stay home. I have rights."
"You can't make me wear a mask. I have rights."
"You can't make me protect myself with a vaccine. I have rights."

And in taking that stance they become a series of weak and vulnerable threads in the Fabric of society that affects the stability of everyone else.

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https://twitter.com/rob_sheridan/status/1421638027760128001?s=21

Dems are responding to Cubans being Republican by going further on Cuba than Trump did, neat.

Sec Blinken is objectively worse than Pompeo at this point

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I'm confused are we now pro police attacking protestors?

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Did not expect "Thanos Was Right" to be today's topic

I mean, the Thanos snap was random so I assume we'd still be stuck with anti-vaxxers.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

But I also don't want them to be the only reason the virus is allowed to continue to circulate and mutate until the protections afforded by the vaccine become useless.

Right, that means you need more stringent pandemic measures than we do now. Whether that's locking down again or vaccine passports or even a vaccine mandate. But this "oh well it's their own fault" is some weak shit, no better than sacrificing grandma to the economy at the start of the pandemic.

And I'm talking purely at a policy level here. I'm not asking anyone to have empathy towards the antivaxxers or feel responsible for their health or anything. Just to recognize that people dying en masse is still fucking bad, and if people aren't taking precautions than societal structure should take that into account. Even in terms of utilitarianism it seems good for the government to have an interest in its citizens not fucking dying instead of, as xp points out, this pseudo-eugenicist libertarian bullshit.

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so apparently logan paul is going to debate candace owens lol

whoever wins we lose

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Wow I can't think of a debate I'd like to watch less

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I'd be all for mandatory covid vaccinations (except for those medically diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder)

I don't see that policy surviving the supreme court, do you?

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TotallyNotMI posted...

I'm confused are we now pro police attacking protestors?

Youre not actually confused, youre being antagonistic like usual.

Why are we sanctioning other countries for doing exactly what we do in ours?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Youre not actually confused, youre being antagonistic like usual.

Why are we sanctioning other countries for doing exactly what we do in ours?

Yeah, responding to you accusing someone of being "objectively worse than Pompeo" is definitely him being the antagonist.

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Oh my bad for antagonizing Secretary Blinken, didnt realize he posted in this topic.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Why are we sanctioning other countries for doing exactly what we do in ours?

I mean fair, we should fix our own shit too I agree with that. But I still don't see this as a bad action just not as good as it should be

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TotallyNotMI posted...

I mean fair, we should fix our own shit too I agree with that. But I still don't see this as a bad action just not as good as it should be

No, because it isn't genuine. It is the type of hypocritical posturing that leads to other countries distrusting our government and rightly so. It is pathetic on every level. They have the gall to sanction other countries when our own is a mess? They take the time, effort, and spend precious resources telling another nation to not do what they do to their own citizens? No, fuck that.

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And for the record I wasn't being antagonistic I was genuinely trying to figure out why saying "don't assault protestors" is a bad thing.

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I'd still take disingenuine but the right message over practically anything Pompeo did but I do see the point

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Well I am not a person who will compare things to Pompeo who is hot garbage but yeah it being not genuine will in the end do more harm than good.

See: the 20th century of our foreign policy.

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Blinken in his role only deals with foreign policy. He wouldn't be able to do anything about the state of policing in America.

Is that above right? I could have a misunderstanding. If I am right there though, again I don't see the issue with him fixing things he can fix.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

Blinken in his role only deals with foreign policy. He wouldn't be able to do anything about the state of policing in America.

Is that above right? I could have a misunderstanding. If I am right there though, again I don't see the issue with him fixing things he can fix.

If you think Blinken acts without the President's approval <_<

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That's fair too, yeah.

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So hypothetically if this was done in conjunction with some kind of penalty against police forces in America who used force against protestors, this would be a fine action. It's the circumstances and hypocrisy that make this bad. Yes?

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I won't speak for Tony but my position is yes for me.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Oh my bad for antagonizing Secretary Blinken, didnt realize he posted in this topic.

I'm more referring to you constantly putting what could otherwise be valid points, removing any sort of nuance to make them sound as ridiculous as possible, and then acting like the wronged party as if you didn't lead with that.
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kevwaffles posted...

I'm more referring to you constantly putting what could otherwise be valid points, removing any sort of nuance to make them sound as ridiculous as possible

Which part is ridiculous my guy? What nuance did I remove? This is worse policy on Cuba than Pompeo, so I am once again asking for you to post literally any discussion other than Tony bad to make your point.

kevwaffles posted...

and then acting like the wronged party as if you didn't lead with that.

See above. Lead with what? Im sorry that me being mean to the Secretary of State offended you somehow.

TotallyNotMI posted...

And for the record I wasn't being antagonistic I was genuinely trying to figure out why saying "don't assault protestors" is a bad thing.

If this is true, Im sorry, but the situation is wayyyy more complex than saying dont assault protestors.

Lets set aside our domestic hypocrisy for a second.

If dont assault protesters was actually a foreign policy position the US cared about, Blinken would be saying shit to the government of Colombia, where police literally sexually assaulted a dozen protestors, physically abused thousands more, and disappeared an unknown number of others.

How many people in this topic even knew about it/read the one post I made about it awhile ago? Thats the type of situation were dealing with right now, and its why this position on Cuba is literally no different/worse than Pompeo.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Did not expect "Thanos Was Right" to be today's topic

I feel this is closer to a Light Yagami was right situation

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im sorry that me being mean to the Secretary of State offended you somehow.

You constantly choose words to bait a response and then act like it wasn't what you said when you get one. That's not the same as offending anyone. It's just literally being antagonistic.

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thanos was a moron with no creativity

if he can snap his fingers to kill half the people because there isn't enough space for all the people, why not just snap your fingers to make twice as much space?

curious

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I don't know why you guys are bringing supervillains into this when the Darwin Awards have existed for decades and much more accurately describe our sentiments

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This is worse policy on Cuba than Pompeo

Also, this is an example of "not what you said before but acting like it was", just so we're clear.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't know why you guys are bringing supervillains into this when the Darwin Awards have existed for decades and much more accurately describe our sentiments

Because medicine and technology keeps people alive that previously would have been darwined due to antisocial behavior.

I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but I honestly think humanity is racing the clock with the goal being fusion power. I think unlimited energy would solve 99% of our problems so the question is which comes first, fusion or we destroy ourselves

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kevwaffles posted...

You constantly choose words to bait a response and then act like it wasn't what you said when you get one. That's not the same as offending anyone. It's just literally being antagonistic.

Yes, Im posting exactly how I always post to bait a response from the annoying person who literally only snipes at me, yeah thats it.

Have you considered that when you literally always respond to me with salt, Im going to respond to you with vinegar?


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kevwaffles posted...

Also, this is an example of "not what you said before but acting like it was", just so we're clear.

My position never changed, that comment is me adding support to my position, something youve yet to do.

Show me how hes better, dude! Im fucking waiting.

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Blinken is worse than Pompeo in totality is such an insanely hyperbolic statement that it draws all the focus away from the very legitimate point you had before it.

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This is why Tony was bad at mafia, he doesn't know how to sharpen his spear to pierce an argument. He just hammers all day.

Is he usually wrong? No, but he throws the kitchen sink

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masterplum posted...

I feel this is closer to a Light Yagami was right situation

even worse

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

This is why Tony was bad at mafia, he doesn't know how to sharpen his spear to pierce an argument. He just hammers all day.

Is he usually wrong? No, but he throws the kitchen sink

Tony is so frustrating in these topics because hes usually almost exactly right and then drives a truck through nuance and then no one listens to the thing he was trying to say in the first place.

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Then again we have Plum supporting serial killers which is a weird flex lol

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Blinken is worse than Pompeo in totality is such an insanely hyperbolic statement that it draws all the focus away from the very legitimate point you had before it.

Im still waiting for someone to show me a state department policy Blinken supports that is better or wouldnt be supported by Pompeo, anyone is free to chime in.

Im not unwilling to change my position, but Iran, Israel, Cuba, Bolivia, all the same or worse than Pompeo.

Please, guys, you know I love good news, give me some.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im still waiting for someone to show me a state department policy Blinken supports that is better or wouldnt be supported by Pompeo, anyone is free to chime in.

Im not unwilling to change my position, but Iran, Israel, Cuba, Bolivia, all the same or worse than Pompeo.

Please, guys, you know I love good news, give me some.

okay

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/us/politics/blinken-human-rights-women.html

Reversed the Trump State Department's policy to overlook discrimination and denials of women seeking sexual health services and declared that women's access to contraceptives and reproductive care is a global human right that will be monitored by the US.

Also dismantled a committee Pompeo formed that prioritized religious liberties and property rights among the universal freedoms, placing them higher than all others.

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I cant read that article even incognito, but yeah those are objectively better things.

Let it be known hes not worse on all aspects.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Dems are responding to Cubans being Republican by going further on Cuba than Trump did, neat.

This is such a baffling takeaway. Like how can you misunderstand Cuban/American politics this badly?
Like I'm halfway convinced I'm somehow reading your post wrong

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DeepsPraw posted...

This is such a baffling takeaway. Like how can you misunderstand Cuban/American politics this badly?
Like I'm halfway convinced I'm somehow reading your post wrong

I see how youre reading it wrong (because of how I said it), and I mean Cuban-Americans (not Cubans in Cuba) are Republicans.

I read an article that the administrations position on Cuba is in response to Republicans having basically all of the Florida Cubans in 2020

edited this like 10 times to clarify lol

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oh ok I get it. Your saying the dems are trying to win over gusano voters by being tough on Cuba, right?
Yeah I'll admit I read that wrong

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DeepsPraw posted...

oh ok I get it. Your saying the dems are trying to win over gusano voters by being tough on Cuba, right?
Yeah I'll admit I read that wrong

Precisely.

I was going to say gusano, but I decided against it to avoid an argument.

of course it happened anyway, but lol yeah

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Actually that's still kind of soft on the dems since it implies the anti-cuba sentiment is for votes and not the actual reason, that they are just as anti-socialist as the GOP

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Wait what's wrong about opposing police action against protesters in Cuba?

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https://twitter.com/seldo/status/1422191563174596611?s=19

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Its almost as if Section 230 is actually good and necessary for websites with user generated content to function at all!

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