Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 376: Pigs in Space

(+) Yeah! (+)

That's why I'm more torn on flu shots for everyone in their current form. Hopefully those get better in the relatively near future thanks to all the money we put into fighting Covid.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Im not even entirely sure what hes asking for here? Mob justice against the cop? We know who he is sure sounds like a threat

If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people maybe there is, I dont know.

https://twitter.com/byyourlogic/status/1425536065943883784?s=21

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NFUN posted...

well, that segment is fine, anthroporphism aside. Vaccines add selective pressure towards developing a strain that resists the vaccine, similar (but I suppose not identical) to how antibiotic resistant bacteria emerge. That doesn't at all imply that the new strains would be more deadly or contagious, which is where the argument entirely fails. And of course that consequence is only relevant to people who actually take the vaccine, it's unlikely that the virus would mutate enough core features to largely evade the vaccine in the near future, it wouldn't be difficult to develop a new vaccine for strains with new features, and decreasing infected biomass (by the population taking vaccines, for example) decreases the opportunities it has to mutate at all, for the benefit of everyone

This is all true, the one thing I'd stress is that selective pressure doesn't create mutations, it can only act on what is already there. This is important because the Delta mutation existing in the first place is largely independent from the vaccination level of the population. Even if Delta mutated in a vaccinated host that's still a totally random event not much different from it mutating in someone who has natural antibodies. Delta's adaptations aren't hyper targeted against the vaccine or anything, it just happened to be more infectious and have a higher viral load and be resistant to antibodies, which turns out to be good against the vaccine.

I'm being pretty pedantic but we're talking basic evolutionary cause and effect here so. If I can offer a reductive hypothetical, the big takeaway is that we very likely would have had to deal with the Delta variant regardless of vaccination. Vaccination levels absolutely allowed it to spread more easily than the original COVID-19 strain so it's not a lock, but people have to understand this stuff (fitness) is all relative.

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Jakyl25 posted...

I know the people in here know this, but thats not how evolution works

Yeah someone tried to argue with him. He just pointed out that the delta variant came weeks after the first vaccinations and insisted that meant they were connected even though he acknowledged the events happened in different countries.

There is just no convincing some people.

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Tulsi Gabbard signed a deal with Rumble, which is a YouTube rival that is mostly a platform for anti-vaxx shit and other hard right content

Anybody surprised

Anybody

Bueller

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We were talking about Rand Paul being so aggressively anti-mask and just ridiculous in general.

Doth a reason emerge?

https://twitter.com/jameshohmann/status/1425592918568546309

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :think:

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xp1337 posted...

We were talking about Rand Paul being so aggressively anti-mask and just ridiculous in general.

Doth a reason emerge?

https://twitter.com/jameshohmann/status/1425592918568546309

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :think:

xp1337 posted...

We were talking about Rand Paul being so aggressively anti-mask and just ridiculous in general.

Doth a reason emerge?

https://twitter.com/jameshohmann/status/1425592918568546309

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :think:

These headlines are often clickbait because senators trade stocks all the time. I would want to see if it was part of a larger stock purchase etc

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masterplum posted...

because senators trade stocks all the time.

also a problem

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Yeah I guess my prior is that Rand Paul doesnt need a financial incentive to be a piece of shit at all times

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Yeah I guess my prior is that Rand Paul doesnt need a financial incentive to be a piece of shit at all times

Well it certainly never hurts!

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If we're talking about people denying the effect of vaccines or something similar, I for the love of god can't wrap my head around what Dave Cullen means by the pandemic being a globalist ploy. It feels like he's reading far too much into the world economy situation.


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masterplum posted...

These headlines are often clickbait because senators trade stocks all the time. I would want to see if it was part of a larger stock purchase etc

I mean he reported a year later than he was supposed to. It'd honestly be MORE shocking if this were a harmless stock purchase because Republicans are just that much pieces of shit.

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masterplum posted...

senators trade stocks all the time

I want to just reiterate for a bit

This is a huge fucking problem with the current system.

Dancedreamer posted...

I mean he reported a year later than he was supposed to. It'd honestly be MORE shocking if this were a harmless stock purchase because Republicans are just that much pieces of shit.

If you think it's only republicans getting rich off politics I've got a bridge to sell you.

There are plenty of ways democrats are better in general than Republicans, but treating them like saints is how you get people who want to "both sides"

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And yet only one group within one party is suggesting reform to actually change the system.
Your both sides shtick has been dumb in the past and it's dumb once again.

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masterplum posted...

If you think it's only republicans getting rich off politics I've got a bridge to sell you.

Where did I say it was ONLY Republicans? Weird defense.

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Wow that was possibly the most blatant dash to but both sides Ive ever seen

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both sides any% no clip

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Reminds me of the response to Black Lives Matter.

"NO! ALL LIVES MATTER!"

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Just a reminder that "progressive" politicians are often just as inept and anti-science as your typical right winger. Case in point, Ontario NDP leader says vaccines shouldn't be mandatory for healthcare and education workers, and only backpedals once people pointed out how mentally deficient she was being:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/08/05/del-duca-horwath-ford-anti-vaxxer/

The federal version of that party is also being led by a man who has openly expressed support for Sikh terrorist groups, and our "Green" party is led by a woman who thinks Wi-Fi causes cancer and only believes in "homeopathic" medicine.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Where did I say it was ONLY Republicans? Weird defense.

Dancedreamer posted...

It'd honestly be MORE shocking if this were a harmless stock purchase because Republicans are just that much pieces of s***.

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Apparently thinking that politicians other than republicans make shady stock purchases is "both sidsing" it nowadays.

Ok then.

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Please put in bold where I said only Republicans do it, thanks.

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Unfortunately anti vaccine idiocy does tend to cut both ways although Id say thanks to Trump there is more right wing dumb dumbs than left wing at the moment.

And the Green Party tends to be full of lunatics which is a damn shame. Jill Stein bring a nice example of that.

Howie seemed pretty good but I say that admitting I didnt dig much into details so Im hoping Im not immediately corrected with eight different ways that he was crazy.

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Can we stop buying into vaccine misinformation here.

The vaccines in no way allowed the delta variant to spread more easily in the population. Breakthrough infections, as in being able to test positive for the virus, are still relatively rare. They are still heavily disproportionate to cases in the unvaccinated population.

Here in California at least 80% of cases are among the unvaccinated with a majority of the population in the vaccinated group.

Suprak the Stud posted...

Unfortunately anti vaccine idiocy does tend to cut both ways although Id say thanks to Trump there is more right wing dumb dumbs than left wing at the moment.

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/9753-Figure-1.png

Honestly, it's closer than I would have expected

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

If we're talking about people denying the effect of vaccines or something similar, I for the love of god can't wrap my head around what Dave Cullen means by the pandemic being a globalist ploy. It feels like he's reading far too much into the world economy situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUbp68V3mhM

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Leafeon13N posted...

Can we stop buying into vaccine misinformation here.

The vaccines in no way allowed the delta variant to spread more easily in the population. Breakthrough infections, as in being able to test positive for the virus, are still relatively rare. They are still heavily disproportionate to cases in the unvaccinated population.

Here in California at least 80% of cases are among the unvaccinated with a majority of the population in the vaccinated group.

Dude no one is disputing anything you just said.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Vaccination levels absolutely allowed it to spread more easily than the original COVID-19 strain so it's not a lock,

kevwaffles posted...

That's why I'm more torn on flu shots for everyone in their current form. Hopefully those get better in the relatively near future thanks to all the money we put into fighting Covid.

kevwaffles posted...

Dude no one is disputing anything you just said.

Yes they are.

In fact you are one of them.

I've been saying for a while that I honestly think most of the people who are unvaccinated in places where there is sufficient supply are more LAZY than anti-vaxx. A lot more people just couldn't be bothered to do something they don't see as benefiting them. That's why having requirements for proof of vaccine to do things is such an effective way to get people to book appointments. You tell these people that suddenly their lives are negatively impacted in a tangible way by not having the vaccine, and they will immediately change their minds.

This is why I fully support governments providing proper proof of vaccine, and having that as a requirement to do things like eat in a restaurant, or go to a concert/sport event, or for travel. Do this, and the only people that will stay unvaccinated are that ~5-10% of the population that are just irredeemably stupid

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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/9753-Figure-1.png

Honestly, it's closer than I would have expected

That isn't very representative.

Counties that heavily favored democrats have a higher vaccination rates than counties that only slightly favored democrats.

The republicans in democrat countries and democrats in republican counties homogenize the results if you don't sort the counties by how strong their lean is.

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For example this chart:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/06/28/multimedia/28-MORNING-subVACCVOTE/28-MORNING-subVACCVOTE-mobileMasterAt3x.png

gives a more clear picture of higher % biden votes resulting in higher % vaccination rate.

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LOL, ONLY 42% EFFECTIVE!!!1! MIGHT AS WELL BE ZERO, FUCKK FAUCHI! (I'd say I don't have to point out that I'm joking...but you never know with this topic...)

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint

I guess possibly disappointing news but some protection is still better than no protection. Also need to consider the source as more likely to post the most anti-vax findings they can.


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Seanchan posted...

LOL, ONLY 42% EFFECTIVE!!!1! MIGHT AS WELL BE ZERO, FUCKK FAUCHI! (I'd say I don't have to point out that I'm joking...but you never know with this topic...)

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint

I guess possibly disappointing news but some protection is still better than no protection. Also need to consider the source as more likely to post the most anti-vax findings they can.

That's considerably lower than other studies (and I believe they didn't control for stuff like a significant portion of the unvaccinated population having immunity from a past covid infection)

But yeah even if it was only 42%, that would still be considerably better than 0

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Is there a reason why there's no Democratic Bustamante figure running in the CA recall like last time in case Newsom loses? If Newsom loses the recall, some wackjob with 20% could actually win, but an anti-recall Democrat running as a backup could beat that pretty easily. Are California Dems just being that cocky?

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Seanchan posted...

LOL, ONLY 42% EFFECTIVE!!!1! MIGHT AS WELL BE ZERO, FUCKK FAUCHI! (I'd say I don't have to point out that I'm joking...but you never know with this topic...)

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-42-infection-delta-preprint

I guess possibly disappointing news but some protection is still better than no protection. Also need to consider the source as more likely to post the most anti-vax findings they can.

Well shit, and here I just got the Pfizer shot.

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Yesmar_ posted...

Are California Dems just being that cocky?

The answer is always yes

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Yesmar_ posted...

Is there a reason why there's no Democratic Bustamante figure running in the CA recall like last time in case Newsom loses? If Newsom loses the recall, some wackjob with 20% could actually win, but an anti-recall Democrat running as a backup could beat that pretty easily. Are California Dems just being that cocky?

Yeah, the reason is that Dems want to portray this as "Newsom vs a Republican" instead of "Newsom vs [insert your favorite candidate]." A legitimate Dem running would draw more "yes" votes for the recall question as well from voters who don't realize that a Republican will almost certainly get a plurality and be the replacement.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Yeah, the reason is that Dems want to portray this as "Newsom vs a Republican" instead of "Newsom vs [insert your favorite candidate]." A legitimate Dem running would draw more "yes" votes for the recall question as well from voters who don't realize that a Republican will almost certainly get a plurality and be the replacement.

This seems like a really stupid system. CA needs to change the recall law so that the recall question is decided first, and then, if the governor is recalled, have a replacement election with all parties.

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Yesmar_ posted...

Is there a reason why there's no Democratic Bustamante figure running in the CA recall like last time in case Newsom loses? If Newsom loses the recall, some wackjob with 20% could actually win, but an anti-recall Democrat running as a backup could beat that pretty easily. Are California Dems just being that cocky?

That was the strategy in the last recall and it just raised the amount of yes votes. If Democrats pushed a candidate Republicans would push one of theirs as well and that candidate would inevitably win if 'yes' passed due to the amount of yes/no replacement selected votes cast.

I see Tony tried to interject in something he apparently knows nothing about.

To be clear, the recall is extremely unpopular and the biggest issue California might have is convincing people it is not just a complete waste of time and they need to vote no or else the literal crazy people will get to govern the state for a year.

Leafeon13N posted...

To be clear, the recall is extremely unpopular and the biggest issue California might have is convincing people it is not just a complete waste of time and they need to vote no or else the literal crazy people will get to govern the state for a year.

I know there was a poll put out not that long ago that was pretty concerning. While obviously CA isn't going red or anything, I don't know if it's wrong to be concerned about turnout/enthusiasm there leading to a super dumb result.

As for the exact strategy to employ idk I'll leave that to people better informed on the local politics and if you're saying putting up an alternate candidate backfired last time than I'll trust you on that.

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Leafeon13N posted...

I see Tony tried to interject in something he apparently knows nothing about.

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500

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