Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 376: Pigs in Space

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Xeybozn
07/24/21 12:55:10 AM
#51:


BlAcK TuRtLe posted...
the only reason we let people out of prison is because it's too expensive to keep them there

Wait, if we never want to let anyone out of prison wouldn't it be even cheaper to just execute all criminals immediately after they're convicted? Or is that what you're getting at when you call for harsher punishments?
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LinkMarioSamus
07/24/21 5:53:21 AM
#52:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
Can we please kill this fucking meme that Trump had good foreign policy? He didn't. The Trump admin's foreign policy was mostly characterized by:

- weakening our ties to allies
- reaching out to become closer to authoritarian regimes (most of which didn't even stick because Trump would piss them off later)
- trade embargos for nebulous reasons
- supporting foreign coups
- literally everything that happened (and still is) at the US-Mexico border
- yelling VERY LOUDLY about how you're not a warmonger while drone strikes increase and the state "subtly" tries to manipulate Iran into a war

Please enlighten me as to what is good about this (don't, it's rhetorical)

If you want to argue that Biden's foreign policy is largely a continuation of Trump's then sure, that's mostly true and the improvements are generally so marginal that I don't really care to argue about them literally being the same. But please stop acting like Trump's was GOOD and Biden is worse.

I heard that even some of Trump's biggest detractors admitted aspects of his foreign policy were good. Though that probably really just came down to not starting any new wars, which as I said sounds like Trump only doing it because he knew it would make him look good. That describes his presidency in a nutshell and is a big reason why the pandemic exposed his administration's weaknesses in the worst way, to the point conservatives had to do everything in their power to cover it up.

Regarding the election, I do however think that Biden did a poor job of spreading the word during campaigning and that he took it seemingly for granted that Trump would get anti-voted to hell. He was right but depending on your opponent's weakness is still dangerous. The problem in this case is that conservatives probably let the 2016 election victory get to their heads and completely ignored Trump's deficiencies as a candidate which hurt him even back then.

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LordoftheMorons
07/26/21 5:59:11 PM
#53:


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xp1337
07/26/21 7:14:47 PM
#54:


A sheriff's office in Florida started up its version of Minority Report.

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1419519167250763776
https://www.tampabay.com/investigations/2021/07/24/pasco-sheriffs-office-letter-targets-residents-for-increased-accountability

Pasco County's Sheriff's Office creates a list of people it considers likely to break the law based on criminal history, social networks, and other "unspecified intelligence." It then sends deputies to their homes repeatedly, often without a search warrant or probable cause.

As for "other unspecified intelligence," the Tampa Bay Times found they have a separate program that uses kids' grades, attendance records, and abuse histories to label them potential future criminals.

It's like a sick fusion of Minority Report and 1984. They send a letter to people in the program and...

The Tampa Bay Times reports...
"We are pleased to inform you that you have been selected..." it says.

But the four-page letter from the Pasco Sheriff's Office goes on to tell recipients they will be facing enhanced police scrutiny under the agency's controversial intelligence program.

"You may wonder why you were enrolled in this program," the letter continues, "You were selected as a result of an evaluation of your recent criminal behavior using an unbiased, evidence-based risk assessment designed to identify prolific offenders in our community. As a result of this designation, we will go to great efforts to encourage change in your life through enhanced support and increased accountability."

The new letter to so-called "prolific offenders" says its purpose is to communicate the agency's "sincere desire" to help recipients "begin a new path."

"We are committed to your success," it says.

[...]

But it also delivers a stern warning. "Our desire to help you will not hinder us from holding you fully accountable for your choices and actions."

In an online video, Sheriff's Office Captain Toni Roach says being selected is "good news" because participants will "have the opportunity to receive assistance from the Pasco Sheriff's Office and several community partners."

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Forceful_Dragon
07/26/21 7:22:44 PM
#55:


That can't be real...

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ChaosTonyV4
07/26/21 7:24:43 PM
#56:


https://thehill.com/policy/defense/564423-senate-panel-votes-to-make-women-register-for-draft

If women have to register for the draft, you think theyll get a free razor?

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NFUN
07/26/21 7:25:05 PM
#57:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
That can't be real...
People have been saying this about the existence of Florida for years, and yet

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htaeD
07/26/21 7:31:18 PM
#58:


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Maniac64
07/26/21 7:35:17 PM
#59:


So is there any actual support given or just visits from police?

Like do the people with bad grades get free tutoring?

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ChaosTonyV4
07/27/21 11:51:12 AM
#60:


https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-endorsed-candidate-shontel-brown-faces-potential-ethics-probe-1613460

lol

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FFDragon
07/27/21 12:13:53 PM
#61:


Literally who cares about Clinton and anything she's doing.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/27/21 1:26:56 PM
#62:


Its about a Congressional candidate.

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FFDragon
07/27/21 1:34:51 PM
#63:


And yet that's not what they lead with, so again: who cares?

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ChaosTonyV4
07/27/21 1:43:04 PM
#65:


lol this is not even worth it

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FFDragon
07/27/21 1:48:48 PM
#66:


atta boy

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GuessMyUserName
07/27/21 1:53:15 PM
#67:


nice

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xp1337
07/27/21 5:52:10 PM
#68:


The GOP has finally found the one responsible for 1/6: Nancy Pelosi.

https://twitter.com/AndrewSolender/status/1420016108527046657

The right wing bubble narrative on 1/6 is truly mind-bending. It is simultaneously a bunch of peaceful, patriotic tourists LED BY ANTIFA BUT DON'T INVESTIGATE IT calling for accountability for a stolen election TO MAKE TRUMP LOOK BAD and now the ringleader is PELOSI BUT STILL WE DON'T WANT TO INVESTIGATE IT.

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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
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RaidenGarai
07/27/21 5:58:43 PM
#69:


The far right hasnt lived in reality for a long time.

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LordoftheMorons
07/27/21 5:59:33 PM
#70:


People like Stefanik absolutely know that they're full of shit

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ChaosTonyV4
07/27/21 6:41:55 PM
#71:


Yeah, a bubble narrative implies theyre oblivious and can be snapped out of it.

Its a choice. They will never snap out of it until it stops working.

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xp1337
07/27/21 6:46:02 PM
#72:


I never meant to imply Stefanik believes that shit, I was just making a broader commentary on how the right wing narrative is the literal definition of "doublethink" in holding multiple contradictory positions on 1/6 simultaneously.

I actually do agree that for most of Trump's cult they actually do know deep down it can't all be true at once but cycle through them as needed depending on what they think is most advantageous for them at the moment but their bubble actively encourages and promotes it.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/27/21 7:26:20 PM
#73:


https://twitter.com/iboudreau/status/1420111384604549122?s=21

lol

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Phantom Dust.
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PostContestUlti
07/27/21 9:52:56 PM
#74:


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LinkMarioSamus
07/28/21 5:39:39 AM
#75:


Trump's America was basically a third-world country.

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HeroDelTiempo17
07/28/21 9:21:29 AM
#76:


LinkMarioSamus posted...
Trump's America was basically a third-world country.



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masterplum
07/28/21 9:42:41 AM
#77:


LinkMarioSamus posted...
Trump's America was basically a third-world country.

This is such a dumb take. Americas problems didn't suddenly appear with Trump and they didn't just disappear with Biden.

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LinkMarioSamus
07/28/21 10:07:15 AM
#78:


I know but the whole vibe surrounding the country just changed all of a sudden when Biden was inaugurated. Probably a coincidence relating to the vaccine rollout but still.

Not a single other part of the world has seen its pandemic fortunes swing this much in so little time.

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HeroDelTiempo17
07/28/21 10:59:22 AM
#79:


https://twitter.com/akela_lacy/status/1420354909090852865?s=19

Now, I'm not posting this to relitigate defund as a campaign slogan so let's not do that. But as for this actual campaign sloganeering: who is this for? Cause all I can think of is liberals that already vote D. Is this a sad attempt to energize the base? What conservative would actually to buy this?

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Mr Lasastryke
07/28/21 11:08:14 AM
#80:


masterplum posted...
This is such a dumb take. Americas problems didn't suddenly appear with Trump and they didn't just disappear with Biden.

i mean, a lot of america's problems did suddenly appear with trump

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masterplum
07/28/21 11:18:22 AM
#81:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
i mean, a lot of america's problems did suddenly appear with trump

They really did not. You can tell based on how the sentiment of trump isn't exclusive to the US. Other countries are facing similar challenges (see Brexit as the most obvious)

Trump just made them obvious to people living in bubbles

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htaeD
07/28/21 11:24:18 AM
#82:


PostContestUlti posted...
https://twitter.com/BarbaraBoxer/status/1300161239742468096?s=20

Well that tweet sure aged well.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/former-sen-barbara-boxer-assaulted-131023802.html


Reaaaally sounds like you're enjoying the fact that she got beaten up here.
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Dancedreamer
07/28/21 11:34:39 AM
#83:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
i mean, a lot of america's problems did suddenly appear with trump

Did they really though? I'd say Mitch McConnell exacerbated the issue as much as Trump (and before Trump came along). Trump just brought out the worst in everyone. For once, they felt safe talking about their worst inhibitions because Trump always talked about his. That's why they always said he was a 'straight-talker'. What they really meant by that is that he wasn't afraid to say the worst things that were on their minds that they never felt they could say in public, but now they just don't care anymore.

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masterplum
07/28/21 11:39:26 AM
#84:


Dancedreamer posted...
Did they really though? I'd say Mitch McConnell exacerbated the issue as much as Trump (and before Trump came along). Trump just brought out the worst in everyone. For once, they felt safe talking about their worst inhibitions because Trump always talked about his. That's why they always said he was a 'straight-talker'. What they really meant by that is that he wasn't afraid to say the worst things that were on their minds that they never felt they could say in public, but now they just don't care anymore.

And Newt Gingrich exacerbated it before Mitch McConnell

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Dancedreamer
07/28/21 11:51:42 AM
#85:


masterplum posted...
And Newt Gingrich exacerbated it before Mitch McConnell

And Ronald Reagan before Gingrich. Not to mention Joseph McCarthy, and so many others responsible for the anti-poor sentiment in this country. (Not to mention anti-lgbt, with his handling of the AIDs crisis, if you can even call it 'handling')

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Lightning Strikes
07/28/21 12:29:47 PM
#86:


masterplum posted...
They really did not. You can tell based on how the sentiment of trump isn't exclusive to the US. Other countries are facing similar challenges (see Brexit as the most obvious)

Trump just made them obvious to people living in bubbles

Of course, while there are similarities between Brexit and Trump largely in terms of fact-free campaigning and the likes of Cambridge Analytica, they are pretty different in terms of motivation and result.

There was no actual single reason for people to support Brexit. At the end of the day the reason a popular Brexit deal was impossible was the fact that everybody who wanted Brexit had a different idea of what it meant. You cant look at it and say well, immigration because less than a third of Brexit voters listed immigration as a top issue. This is the only way it was able to succeed - Brexit was never defined, do it could get a large coalition of people who wanted different things. It was a range from protectionists to globalists to liberals to communists voting for it. The end result is a deal which almost everyone hates as nobodys issues were fully addressed leave or remain. And of course it is much longer term damage than nearly anything a President can do.

Now contrast that with Trump, who was very clear about what he wanted to do. Voting coalition-wise it was the same group that always voted Republican by-and-large, and his policy platform was just the extension of what Republicans have been drifting towards for decades, which is fascism. It is telling that everyone in the UK hates Trump, even hardcore Brexiteers view him unfavourably and for a time his approval ratings there were worse than Putins, so Id say his sentiment was very unpopular.

So no, they are not comparable. Of the two Brexit is a much bigger anomaly as it was a referendum (already very strange, only three national referendums in UK history) in which the winning side was effectively tricked into voting for something terrible with no actual definition as to what it was. Trump on the other hand was just far right party in two-party system goes mask off, not all that surprising. Also Brexit will probably have much worse impacts long-term.

With that said, Trump is not a global oddity. Erdogan, Orbn, and Bolsonaro are all effectively the same. In particular it was Erdogan that started this new model of tinpot dictator that Trump would crib from. So I guess I agree Brexit is just a bad example.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/28/21 12:51:33 PM
#87:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
https://twitter.com/akela_lacy/status/1420354909090852865?s=19

Now, I'm not posting this to relitigate defund as a campaign slogan so let's not do that. But as for this actual campaign sloganeering: who is this for? Cause all I can think of is liberals that already vote D. Is this a sad attempt to energize the base? What conservative would actually to buy this?

I came here to post this exact tweet.

This is fucking insane, its like they want to get destroyed in the midterms.

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masterplum
07/28/21 12:55:02 PM
#88:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
I came here to post this exact tweet.

This is fucking insane, its like they want to get destroyed in the midterms.

Are any of the people that would be mad about this going to change their vote because of it? Maybe Minority enthusiasm?

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PerfectChaosZ
07/28/21 1:03:06 PM
#89:


I mean at this point it's just obvious that when Dem's get in power their goal is 'put a republican back in power' since they work for them.
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Inviso
07/28/21 1:12:24 PM
#90:


I've said it before, but for a large portion of the politically active voters who reliably turn out for every election (re: white people who aren't negatively impacted by the systemic racism of the police), defund the police is a bad slogan and goes against what they actually want. They don't want the police to be defunded, because that terminology makes them think "abolish the police", which is frightening for them. We live in a country where the police are treated like heroes (I've pointed out how like 70% of CBS' evening programming is devoted to copaganda), and white people have this fantasy ideal of what policing is: that cops will protect them from criminals.

Basically, if the GOP is going to try and paint the Dems with "Defund the Police" (which they rightfully realize is going to hurt them more with voters than help them), then the Dems trying to flip the script and scare those same, self-centered voters into fearing the GOP, can't make things worse.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/28/21 1:18:51 PM
#91:


The point isnt about the phrase, its that literally who is this for?

If youre a diehard cop supporter, youre not going to all of a sudden think the defund the police goals are actually from the Republicans.

If youre NOT a fan of the cops, this is the Dems going Look its the GOP who want to defund them, obviously we want to fund them even more.

What type of person is this for?

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masterplum
07/28/21 1:19:22 PM
#92:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
The point isnt about the phrase, its that literally who is this for?

If youre a diehard cop supporter, youre not going to all of a sudden think the defund the police goals are actually from the Republicans.

If youre NOT a fan of the cops, this is the Dems going Look its the GOP who want to defund them, obviously we want to fund them even more.

What type of person is this for?

Independents

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Yesmar_
07/28/21 1:29:17 PM
#93:


The goal is to have Republicans waste time by having them defend the attack.

See: Pretty much every Republican attack made against Democrats.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/28/21 1:29:59 PM
#94:


masterplum posted...
Independents

Independent in what way? If theyre ambivalent about the police, I dont see how this affects them at all either.

Yesmar_ posted...
The goal is to have Republicans waste time by having them defend the attack.

See: Pretty much every Republican attack made against Democrats.

lol yeah so its a bad plan.

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Jakyl25
07/28/21 1:30:11 PM
#95:


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HeroDelTiempo17
07/28/21 1:33:43 PM
#96:


Yesmar_ posted...
The goal is to have Republicans waste time by having them defend the attack.

See: Pretty much every Republican attack made against Democrats.

They don't have to waste any time defending the attack. They pile up police endorsements anyways, without even trying. They will play the "I am rubber and you are glue" strategem and say that Dems are the ones who want to defund the police, which is what they were going to do anyways.

Again: who is going to believe this? How is this a reasonable strategy at all? If the point is to take control of the narrative they have to try way harder than that.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/28/21 1:34:53 PM
#97:


Jakyl25 posted...
https://twitter.com/mstratford/status/1420422062431215621?s=21

AUGHHHHHHHH

LOL were so fucked, Democrats suck so bad. I cant believe people are happy to support these clowns.

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Maniac64
07/28/21 1:35:53 PM
#98:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Independent in what way? If theyre ambivalent about the police, I dont see how this affects them at all either.
I think the belief is that they arent ambivalent about police but are in fact supportive of police and funding the police.

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DoomTheGyarados
07/28/21 1:36:32 PM
#99:


Sigh.

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ChaosTonyV4
07/28/21 1:37:39 PM
#100:


Maniac64 posted...
I think the belief is that they arent ambivalent about police but are in fact supportive of police and funding the police.

Those people already definitely know the GOP wants to defund schools and give that money to the cops lol, the accusation is feckless

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Mr Lasastryke
07/28/21 1:40:44 PM
#101:


masterplum posted...
Other countries are facing similar challenges (see Brexit as the most obvious)

i'd say covid is a good example. no, trump didn't create covid and it's obviously a challenge that the whole world is facing. but no other country leader has been as completely atrocious at handling it as trump except maaayyybe bolsonaro.

my prime minister has been terrible at dealing with covid but he's still been leagues better than trump at it.

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