Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 318: Markey Matchup

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/1301266735555850241?s=21

#Salongate or whatever

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In a cycle of dumb news, this may be the dumbest.

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i'm somewhere in the middle on the "biden mental decline" debate.

on the one hand, i do think that there's something off about biden. "this isn't true because it's russian propaganda" is a logical fallacy. if russia today publishes that the sky is blue, it doesn't suddenly become false.

on the other hand, i'm annoyed by all the people going "OH BIDEN OBVIOUSLY HAS DEMENTIA" or whatever. diagnosing a person you've never met with no medical background from behind your computer screen is fucking stupid. who knows what kind of issues biden has.

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red sox 777 posted...

That sounds about right. It looks like he views D+3 as the breakeven point. I've been working with D+4 being the breakeven in my own modeling.

Trump crossed into favorite territory on Betfair today, apparently. He's up to 45% on PredictIt.

Seriously

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Having had family members who went through serious mental decline... Biden isn't that. Kind of annoys me when people try to get obnoxious about it, tbqh.

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i member when groge walker bush (jr) had dementia too in like 2002

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I think people would pretty much all agree if people just said 'cognitive decline' instead of necessarily dementia. Cognitive decline is also pretty noticable in Trump compared to his younger self, and even Bernie to a lesser extent. The shocking thing with Biden is mostly just how much has changed since he was last in the spotlight in the Obama administration. The russian angle is ridiculous though, democrats have to stop saying anytime anyone has a concern or a negative thought about their candidate it is russian influence. Especially when it comes from people whose concern with Biden's health is primarily that it being negative could cause him to lose, rather than people who would use his health as a reason not to support him.

Trump encourages supporters in NC to commit voter fraud (by voting twice):

https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/1301293436595773442

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Can we please talk about the real issues?

https://twitter.com/NBCPhiladelphia/status/1301213811458928640?s=09

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Cognitive decline will always be an issue for every candidate as long as the most popular ones keep being super old.

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there's a difference between questioning a near octogenarian's mental acuity and the messed up dementia shit that's been heavily amplified - same shit went on with hillary who was secretly dying in the last few months of the campaign

the thing about misinformation campaigns is that they're most effective by exaggerating and blowing up people's legitimate concerns - "legitimate" meaning concerns that the public already holds, not "legitimate" as in accurate necessarily

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Can we please talk about the real issues?

https://twitter.com/NBCPhiladelphia/status/1301213811458928640?s=09

How about we name them buffalo wings then?

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Trump encourages supporters in NC to commit voter fraud (by voting twice):

https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/1301293436595773442

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1301299333938151424

Bill Barr trying to defend it on CNN, basically just Barr claiming he doesn't know if maybe you are allowed to do it, if it counts as "maybe changing your vote up to a certain limit, I don't know what the law is" or w/e, and when pushed by Wolf that it's illegal to vote twice Barr responds "well if you know what he's saying why are you asking me!" -_-

Bill Barr is the absolute worst fucking tool in the administration and it's infuriating that this man is Attorney General

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GuessMyUserName posted...

Bill Barr is the absolute worst fucking tool in the administration and it's infuriating that this man is Attorney General

qft

Reg posted...

qft

it's too bad we don't have the old quote system so i could quote the whole thing but yes

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Bill Barr and Betsy Devos both doing an excellent job IMO.

GuessMyUserName posted...

Bill Barr is the absolute worst fucking tool in the administration and it's infuriating that this man is Attorney General

Pretty close race between him, Trump, and Mitch McConnel, but I probably hate Barr the most.

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Barr is Trump's worst appointment for sure. I think he's worse than McConnell; Trump is a closer call.

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If Trump does squeak in via the Electoral College again, it does just go to show that one of the best tools for preventing extremism is strong proportional representation, which is funny because that used to be the big argument against it!

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I think we could be headed down very dark paths if the popular vote winner continues to not be the electoral college winner. How much will "the people" take when it's 4%...7%...10%?

Not this election but maybe not too many more. Of course it's also possible by that point that state flips make this a moot point. Who knows.

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At this point I swear the only reason the Electoral College is still around is because of how the popular vote tends to line up with it more often than not. There have literally only been two Presidents over the past century who won the election while losing the popular vote and they were...Bush and Trump. Uh oh.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

At this point I swear the only reason the Electoral College is still around is because of how the popular vote tends to line up with it more often than not. There have literally only been two Presidents over the past century who won the election while losing the popular vote and they were...Bush and Trump. Uh oh.

The reason it's still around is that it would take a constitutional amendment to change it, which would require 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Since more than 1/4 of the states have disproportionately large voting power due to the electoral college, it's very unlikely to ever change.

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If Biden wins the popular vote by 7% and loses the electoral college I don't see how anybody can say it is fit for purpose.

Then again over in the UK a huge majority of recent governments haven't had a majority of the popular vote, including the incumbent - but it was especially bad when the "brexit election" enabled brexit despite a sizeable majority of voters voting for parties which pledged for a second referendum.

The gold standard is STV which they use in Ireland among other places, ironically designed by Britain to suppress republicans, who got voted in under FPTP anyway. It's both highly proportional and keeps local representation. And let me tell you having lived under and voted in both systems it's nice feeling like your vote actually counts. Voting in UK elections being registered in an incredibly safe seat just feels like a pointless endeavour.

And to extend that to the electoral college, it wouldn't be so bad if the electoral votes were administered proportionately - you get 60% of the vote you get 60% of the electoral votes and so on. And if the electoral college was updated every election cycle to actually reflect the population. What a system.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1301299333938151424

Bill Barr trying to defend it on CNN, basically just Barr claiming he doesn't know if maybe you are allowed to do it, if it counts as "maybe changing your vote up to a certain limit, I don't know what the law is" or w/e, and when pushed by Wolf that it's illegal to vote twice Barr responds "well if you know what he's saying why are you asking me!" -_-

Bill Barr is the absolute worst fucking tool in the administration and it's infuriating that this man is Attorney General

what the hell.

blitzer: it's illegal to vote twice, right?
barr: well, i don't know what the law is.

it's fucking terrifying how little regard this administration has for the most basic of democratic processes.

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To be fair, the electoral college is updated after each census count.

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Someone on YouTube once retorted back to me that other countries don't have 50 states, thus why the Electoral College is in place.

I forgot at the time that there were definitely not 50 states at the inception of the EC.

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Seanchan posted...

I think we could be headed down very dark paths if the popular vote winner continues to not be the electoral college winner. How much will "the people" take when it's 4%...7%...10%?

Not this election but maybe not too many more. Of course it's also possible by that point that state flips make this a moot point. Who knows.

If Trump wins the next election, by any means at all, we're not going to be having elections anymore. It'll just be handpicked successors.

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1301528521026744322

The double down.

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god bless america

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KamikazePotato posted...

If Trump wins the next election, by any means at all, we're not going to be having elections anymore. It'll just be handpicked successors.

Oh, there'll be elections, in four possible flavours:

-Non-competitive elections where you can only vote "yes", that are also massively rigged (Nazi Germany).

-Competitive elections which are massively rigged in favour of the incumbent (Belarus).

-Competitive elections that aren't necessarily completely rigged, but the political and social systems are set up to guarantee the incumbent wins (Russia).

And if you're really lucky:

-Competitive elections that the incumbent can lose, but power structures, voter suppression, low-level electoral fraud gerrymandering and political violence make that very difficult and ensure that as much power stays in the executive as possible (Turkey).

If Trump wins the next election the US only becoming like Turkey would be a result.

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You guys are so extreme. Lol. If Trump wins, the next election will be the same as every other. Trump likely isn't gonna win though. Dunno why you all do this every time. If Trump loses, they are going to grab their muskets ahhhh! If Trumps wins, democracy is over ahhhh! If Trump xxxxx, omg xxxxx ahhhh!

I hope you just like to use hyperbole and act sensationalized and don't actually live your lives that way.

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You guys are as ridiculous as Michelle Bachmann saying that if Hillary won that would be the last free election we ever had.

Corrik7 posted...

You guys are so extreme. Lol. If Trump wins, the next election will be the same as every other. Trump likely isn't gonna win though. Dunno why you all do this every time. If Trump loses, they are going to grab their muskets ahhhh! If Trumps wins, democracy is over ahhhh! If Trump xxxxx, omg xxxxx ahhhh!

I hope you just like to use hyperbole and act sensationalized and don't actually live your lives that way.

I won't speak for everyone in this topic as I don't always agree with them, but for my take in general Trump is acting like a fascist and if you're OK with that and don't see the clear way that this is true you are blind.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I won't speak for everyone in this topic as I don't always agree with them, but for my take in general Trump is acting like a fascist and if you're OK with that and don't see the clear way that this is true you are blind.

Both sides scare me, but the Democrats scare me more.

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The number of armed militias loyal to Trump on the streets has only
increased and theyve directly said off he loses theyll rise up but whatever Corrik stay in your bubble.

Point of order this has been helped along by a democratic party who often don't prioritize the interest of the people either. Feels like education and less military could have been accomplished at some point!

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

The number of armed militias loyal to Trump on the streets has only
increased and theyve directly said off he loses theyll rise up but whatever Corrik stay in your bubble.

No such thing as armed uprisings in the world today. Military could end that shit in seconds from across the globe. Nor is anyone actually going to pick up arms against their country. You live in a world of manufactured fear.

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Corrik7 posted...

No such thing as armed uprisings in the world today. Military could end that shit in seconds from across the globe. Nor is anyone actually going to pick up arms against their country. You live in a world of manufactured fear.

Unless the military takes the side of the uprising. We've already seen police (essentially militarized gangs) siding with and offering help and support to those militias.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I won't speak for everyone in this topic as I don't always agree with them, but for my take in general Trump is acting like a fascist and if you're OK with that and don't see the clear way that this is true you are blind.

Dude, they do this about every single angle. Win or lose there is some earth shattering problem with it. There is a Boogeyman in every corner.

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Inviso posted...

Unless the military takes the side of the uprising. We've already seen police (essentially militarized gangs) siding with and offering help and support to those militias.

You have never seen police take up arms against the government.

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Corrik7 posted...

You have never seen police take up arms against the government.

We've seen them take up arms against protestors, inciting violence to turn peaceful protests into riots so that the protests appear violent and worth exerting armed force to quell them. The police ARE the government there.

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https://theappeal.org/daniel-prude-rochester-new-york-police-killing/#.X1B7YGkxWsQ.twitter

Rough read. Don't recommend looking at the details if you're sensitive to this sort of thing.

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Corrik7 posted...

Dude, they do this about every single angle. Win or lose there is some earth shattering problem with it. There is a Boogeyman in every corner.

people weren't complaining about earth shattering consequences, even in 2004.

if you think 2020 is anything like any year prior to 2016 then you are blind

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Corrik7 posted...

Dude, they do this about every single angle. Win or lose there is some earth shattering problem with it. There is a Boogeyman in every corner.

This has nothing to do with them and everything to do with looking at Trump's actions tbh.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Point of order this has been helped along by a democratic party who often don't prioritize the interest of the people either. Feels like education and less military could have been accomplished at some point!

This is why I don't get liberals who complain that "lower-class white people are being tricked into voting against their interests". It's not like the Democrats have done much more for them on economic issues than the Republicans have for the last few decades. Seems perfectly logical to vote purely on social issues if that's the only thing your vote can change.
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Never never never never never never never call the police for a mental health situation.

It will end very poorly a majority of the time, because they will be treated as a threat no matter what.

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> It's not like the Democrats have done much more for them on economic issues than the Republicans have for the last few decades

Health care and social security don't count? The aca in particular is recent and huge and broken down along party lines

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Corrik7 posted...

You guys are so extreme. Lol. If Trump wins, the next election will be the same as every other. Trump likely isn't gonna win though. Dunno why you all do this every time. If Trump loses, they are going to grab their muskets ahhhh! If Trumps wins, democracy is over ahhhh! If Trump xxxxx, omg xxxxx ahhhh!

I hope you just like to use hyperbole and act sensationalized and don't actually live your lives that way.

i love how you always bitch about basic common sense responses to trump's bullshit being "so extreme" (in a topic where you dismiss the concept of war crimes as "nonsense" and defend slavery, i might add).

trump is literally encouraging voters to commit voter fraud. "wow how can you say democracy in danger with trump being president wahhhh so extreme."

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banananor posted...

> It's not like the Democrats have done much more for them on economic issues than the Republicans have for the last few decades

Health care and social security don't count? The aca in particular is recent and huge and broken down along party lines

Neither of those things actually help working class people.

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Obamacare passing as it did with a filibuster proof Senate majority is the democratic party failing the American public.

Full stop, no regrets saying it this way.

Like there is a reason why so many people are pissed off at Washington and it is also why social issues like abortion rights and LGBTQ rights and racial justice can be a split. If the Democratic party when in power actually offered substantial change to people there would be a lot less Republicans. Things like social issues tend to matter less to people when one party screws them financially and another doesn't.

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