Board 8 > Jeff Zero & Leonhart in Different Houses: The Odyssey Concludes [JZLF]

(+) Yeah! (+)

All right, I'm finished with Fate/Zero. The last few episodes were all pretty good. The final fights were all exciting and fun. I guess I should put this in spoilers so I can discuss specifics.

The ending was...interesting (hashtag Saberwasright - "few" always becomes more than you planned or hoped and sometimes the "few" are what's worth protecting), but I guess it was intended to be a direct lead-in to Fate/Stay Night, so I'm sure I'm only getting half the picture there. I actually agreed with Kiritsugu's decision to have Saber destroy the Grail, although I guess it backfired in more ways than one. And of course, it ends poorly for Kariya. Man, I felt bad for that guy. Although honestly probably the main redeeming factor of the ending was that Waver lived. I thought for sure all the Masters except the winner would end up dead, so I'm very glad he lived. We actually ended up with three surviving Masters! Well, sort of. I guess Kirei is some sort of zombie now? Something like that.

In any event, the relationship between Rider and Waver was my favorite part of the show. Good interaction and chemistry are big for me, and that felt like the only Master/Servant relationship that actually had any significant development to it other than Kirei/Archer (since Irisviel isn't actually Saber's Master). I'm glad they got a lot of stuff together in the last several episodes. It definitely made it easier for me to stick with the show!

As far character rankings go...Maybe I should split it up between Servants and Masters.

Servants: Rider >> Saber > Archer > Berserker > Lancer > Caster > Assassin

Masters (and Irisviel): Waver > Kariya > Irisviel > Kirei > Kiritsugu > Tokiomi > Ryuunosuke > Kayneth

Everyone else doesn't really get enough screentime for me to form a solid opinion of them, but I assume they get it in F/SN. Well, except for Maiya. She sucks. That Zouken guy sucks, too, but at least you're not supposed to like him.

I guess I should include either Saber or Irisviel in the female character rankings, but I'm not entirely sure which one I liked better. Let's go with Saber.

Nagato > Yakumo > Kurisu > Chizuru > Yukiko > Aqua > Makoto > Mitsuru > Yui > Yachiyo > Shiori > Eru > Wagatsuma > Ritsu > Akane > Pepper > Amy > Namine > Yurippe > Mikasa > Eureka > Saber > Art3mis > Valentine > Zelda > Vera > Elizabeth > Cora > Kotori
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I'm sad that you don't want to protect Iri's smile
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I was sad Kiritsugu didn't either but such is life
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The Rider/Gilgamesh fight is so good

And yeah, Waver living was definitely a pleasant surprise.

Are you gonna watch F/SN?
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I don't seem to see an English dub for it on any legit sites. Kind of lame for Crunchyroll to have the dub of Fate/Zero but not F/SN.
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Aniplex is just being weird. It's one of their few anime they don't have a dub available on Crunchyroll.
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Fate/UBW used to be on Netflix, IIRC. Not sure if it still is. Or if you have Netflix.

Final fights are definitely hype.
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Yeah I actually thought you might warm up a bit to the ending of Fate/Zero. I do think the narrative portrays him as a hero (which you might not agree with?), but it's definitely as a flawed or a misguided hero as opposed to...I don't know...something else. It's designed from the ground up to be a tragedy. (In fact a huge factor in why I recommend Fate/Stay Night first is because many of the early scenes in Fate/Zero have an entirely different tone when you already know how the anime is going to turn out.)

Guess I'll spoil this also: I've said this already but I definitely also agree Rider/Waver is the best part of Fate/Zero. It's sort of interesting because from the perspective of Fate/Stay Night the main point of Fate/Zero is to more deeply explore the character of Kiritsugu specifically and also the events that transpired between him/Saber and Kotomine/Archer. So, those elements are 100% what any F/SN reader/watcher will be looking out for going into Fate/Zero. So then for the characters of Rider and Waver (who don't even exist at all in Fate/Stay Night) to come out of nowhere and completely steal the show was a pretty big surprise to me.
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To me Fate/Zero is Waver's story. And it all leads up to him standing up to the King of Heroes himself at the end and being deemed worthy by him.
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xp1337 posted...

Fate/UBW used to be on Netflix, IIRC. Not sure if it still is. Or if you have Netflix.

Looks like it still is. I always forget to check Netflix since I never use it.

Bryce Pappenbrook is the main character huh

oh well at least they got Kari Wahlgren and Crispin Freeman back
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Huh, I thought for sure that you'd be soured on Kariya by what he did to Aoi. Cool if you weren't though.
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I mean the dude was basically goaded into it by Kirei setting the whole thing up to make him look bad in front of her so while it's not a great move on his part it's just another chapter in the tragedy

it's hard to hate him when he's being set up to fail by so many people
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Huh, I thought for sure that you'd be soured on Kariya by what he did to Aoi. Cool if you weren't though.

This did make me hate him

The existence of multiple scenes of women being choked is by far my least favorite thing about F/Z. Ugh.
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apparently there's nowhere online you can just rent the Star Wars movies for a one-time watch except for TFA and Rogue One, and only Rogue One is on Netflix as far as I can see

they make you buy the full movie for 20 bucks if you want to watch them on Amazon or anywhere online that I can see
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Wait, TFA isn't on Netflix in the US? It is here in Canada.
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Looks like just Rogue One here, but maybe I'm just missing it. Apparently, Disney pulled most of their Star Wars and Marvel stuff in preparation for launching their own streaming service?
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Yeah I dont think TFA was ever on Netflix in the US.
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well I was going to watch Return of the Jedi tonight but I guess I'll wait until I can find another avenue for watching these movies

I guess I could go physically rent it tomorrow because there actually is still a video store around here
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I will loan you my copy if you want to make the quick and easy trip to upstate New York
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I could also make the quick and easy 8 hour trip back home to borrow my old Special Edition VHS tapes and a VCR
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In Yu Yu Hakusho, it's a video game duel between everyone and the Game Master. Perhaps the biggest surprise is the fact that Genkai is an avid video game player. Not so surprising is that Yusuke is almost Kuwabara tier in video game skill. Kurama figures out that they can continue as much as they want, but their chances of actually beating him seem slim. It's also pretty rare for Kurama to do the episode previews, and he suggests that he's going to do something he'll regret next episode! What could it be?!
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All right, since I can't watch RotJ, I decided to go ahead and start Unlimited Blade Works. Only watched the first episode since it's an extra long one like Fate/Zero's first one was. Rin has become quite the tsundere over the last...however many years. I'd guess 10ish? I recognize that Archer dude because I've seen pictures of him before, but I didn't realize that profound smugness is a requirement for every Archer. Unfortunately, he's forgotten who he really is.

Rin and Sakura go to the same school, and Sakura actually seems normal. Do they even remember that they're sisters at this point? Oh hey, it's that boy that Kiritsugu adopted in the last episode of F/Z, or at least I'm guessing so since they called him Emiya. They don't waste any time getting into the action here, as Archer and a different Lancer fight it out, and then the same old Saber returns at the end. By the way, I'm kind of confused. I thought at the beginning of F/Z, they said the Grail War took place once every sixty years, and there's no way it's been sixty years. Maybe I misheard something, or screwing up everything at the end of F/Z sped the process up. Or Kirei's manipulating stuff behind the scenes when Rin isn't hanging up on him.

Also, what's the difference between Unlimited Blade Works and the original version of F/SN? I guess this one came after F/Z so it probably has some references to it, but is there anything else?
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The first several grail wars were separated by 60 years, but this one came early (don't remember why or if it was even explained).

There are three different routes in the F/SN VN. The original anime (which is not great) covers the first (Fate) route, and UBW covers the second route (which is both a better route and is adapted much better).

Apparently the same studio that did F/Z and UBW is making a movie adaptation of the third route (Heaven's Feel).
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LeonhartFour posted...

Also, what's the difference between Unlimited Blade Works and the original version of F/SN? I guess this one came after F/Z so it probably has some references to it, but is there anything else?

they adapt different routes of the VN.

also the DEEN F/SN adaptation is generally thought to be not good.
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Ah, I see. That makes sense, I guess. I figured UBW was just a remake of the first one or something.
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fine then I didn't want to read that post anyway
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LeonhartFour posted...

fine then I didn't want to read that post anyway

I can confirm you didn't even if you don't realize it. It was a pretty dumb post.

(Yes I was the one who made it; I'm not like insulting someone else here.)
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I watched a couple more of those "Found in Translation" FFVII videos.

it makes me very happy that Cloud's line, "You look like a bear wearing a marshmallow," is actually fairly close to what he says in Japanese
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I figured I'd post another update since I finished Working!!. The third season wasn't quite as good as the first two but I enjoyed the ending. Ultimately my previous character ranking remained unchanged, too. Inami is the best.

I realized that reposting my definitive anime ranking might get in the way so I'll link to it instead! Bonus anime character ranking too (and boy was it not fun looking up how to spell some of those names on my phone. The order of Japanese family/given names also confuses me and seemed inconsistent between sources but oh well)

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/572509-gremlins-2-the-new-batch/76077616/891854355

The next thing I plan to do that will be relevant to this topic series is the Clannad VN sometime early next year, but until then I think it makes more sense if I move my inane chatter to the anime topic. I know no one really cares where I post but I'll feel less in the way there. Plus, this way I won't risk spoiling Leonhart on animes he might someday want to watch (well I'm pretty sure he only watches dubbed anime and I watch subtitled stuff mostly at random so this would probably never happen, but still!)

Thanks for putting up with me as I began this journey into anime! I'll still be checking in and commenting wherever I can, obviously.
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yeah the stuff you're watching at random doesn't really seem like stuff I would watch anyway (largely because I don't just watch stuff at random)
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LeonhartFour posted...

I watched a couple more of those "Found in Translation" FFVII videos.

Oo he made more? Gotta check em out
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He releases one every two or three weeks. He's started doing one for Xenoblade 2, although I won't be watching that one, obviously.
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In Yu Yu Hakusho, Kurama is excellent. He understands the rules of Game Master's territory and uses the truth of it to mess with his head and beat him, although the result torments him. He takes out that regret and anger on Gourmet, who was actually the other Toguro brother, who's been in control of his body for a while now, and beats him the only way he can. Next up appears to be the Spirit Detective Showdown, and we have a new ED, too! I'm gonna miss the third one. It really grew on me, although this fourth one at least isn't as bad as the second one.
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it's kind of annoying not having anyone to vent certain frustrations to and you know you can't do it publicly so you just keep your mouth shut

this is my passive aggressive way of venting without providing any context
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did you just get UBW spoiled because you googled something?
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Anyway, watched another episode of UBW. It was pretty long like the first episode, but I guess that's because it's basically a retelling of it from a different perspective. Shirou seems like a nice guy who enjoys helping people, and he can actually solve problems without killing people, so that's good. Sakura's got a pretty obvious crush on him, and this teacher who eats with them all the time is flat out crazy. So does Shirou live in the same place Kiritsugu used as his base in Fate/Zero? I'm wondering because that storehouse looks the same, and it's got a magic circle in it, so I'm guessing it is. He summons Saber essentially out of sheer willpower, even though he's not really a proper mage. We still don't know who Lancer's Master is, and we haven't met anyone else involved in this Grail War yet, but at least it's been pretty action-packed so far.
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GranzonEx posted...

did you just get UBW spoiled because you googled something?

no I'd have no problems venting frustrations about that

I'm also pretty good at keeping myself from getting spoiled so no need to worry about that
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ok well just be careful because UBW has a huge spoiler that's easy to let slip, that's why I refrain from talking about UBW in general
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I should say that Fate/Grand Order could easily spoil that as well.
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LeonhartFour posted...

In Yu Yu Hakusho, Kurama is excellent

Yup
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I forgot how the Kurama/Toguro fight ended so I decided to rewatch it.

That did not disappoint.
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LeonhartFour posted...

So does Shirou live in the same place Kiritsugu used as his base in Fate/Zero?

Yes
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Made quite a bit of progress in Chaos;Child (also the chapters seem a bit shorter.) On Chapter 6 now.

things getting pretty real
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Oh man, just realized that Gilles's COOLU from Fate/Zero is a play on Cthulu (the t and h are silent). Not sure if that came across in the dub or not.
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who the heck is Gilles
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Gilles de Rais, that's Caster.
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Oh, you mean Bluebeard.
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you mean Danna/Aohige?
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All right, I've finally worked up enough motivation to get back to Odyssey. I'm up to about 800 Moons, and now I'm tackling the one Moon on Darker Side. I'll probably just use a guide to get the rest because I'm about ready to be finished with this game, and because I don't want the topic title to make me a liar.
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I stopped at around 850. The only moons I had left were a handful on Dark Side, the one on Darker Side and a few of the boss rematches in Mushroom Kingdom.

Other games came up and some of those Dark Side ones were annoying me. I may get back to finish it up at some point.
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