Lurker > NeatoAnAccount

We want the damn album!

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Neato, an account

DeepsPraw posted...

"kafkaesque" actually follows English conventions and isn't two authors' names awkwardly smashed together

Metroidvania follows English conventions far more than Kafkaesque does. How many English words do you know that have the 2 vowels "uh-ehh" in a row? Or that include the sound sequence fk?

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Neato, an account

right

there wasn't a unified genre name because there were not yet 1000 games also organized like metroid, so you had to describe it with entire sentences

now you can just say "it's a metroidvania" and the other person will know what you mean. and if they don't know what a metroidvania is, they don't know video games, and therefore you're not going to say "it's a metroidvania" to them.

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Neato, an account

foolm0r0n posted...

What words did you use

I don't think I've ever actually used the word metroidvania before this topic lol

But when people started saying metroidvania i was like "oh i think i know what that means"

I don't remember when I learned how metroid was organized, probably pre-2008 though

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Neato, an account

MZero posted...

um, the entire point of the original article is explaining what Metroid is. The section translated in the tweet is literally called "What is the Metroid series?"

Does the target audience for this article actually exist though? Who's digging through the announcements on nintendo.co.jp without a clue of what a metroidvania is?

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Neato, an account

<a onclick="return show_quoted_message(8, 79602226, 956906807, 'f813bc50');" href="/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79602226/956906807">MZero posted... </a>

No, I'm talking about discussing Metroid with someone who doesn't know what Metroid is, which is exactly what this article is doing. Telling them it's a Metroidvania is completely useless

This article is using the Japanese translation of metroidvania, which literally means "search action" in English. Also, how many people found that article without knowing that Metroid is? Maybe like 3?

it's a genre name, it has to be generic at some level otherwise you're just describing a specific game. Action, Fighting, and Strategy could all describe Final Fantasy.

I have changed my mind on what the problem with this point is. Actually, it's totally fine for genre names to be incomprehensible to non-gamers. Genre names are not for non-gamers. Non-gamers will never run into the words "platformer" or "metroidvania."

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Neato, an account

foolm0r0n posted...

I am clearly not worried about wasting my time here. But I don't know why you think your argument is so bulletproof.

Let's take your experiment and ask 1 million non-gamers what an "exploration action" game might entail. What % would mention exploring a world to find keys to unlock doors? Definitely non-zero right? I would say 10% at least. Now what % would say that about "Metroidvania"? Absolutely zero.

Exploring a world to find keys to unlock doors is only metroidvania-y if the keys are abilities and the doors are the roadblocks that require you to have the ability.

Here's another experiment. Show 10 minutes of gameplay from 100 different games to a non-gamer. Ask them to pick out the exploration action games. How well would they do? Now do the same with "Metroidvania". They'll do better???

a) watching 16 hours of video games is extremely onerous compared to defining a word
b) they will pick every game that looks like there is exploration and action, without getting anywhere near the core things that make them explacts, so they will randomly be correct more often because they can rule out more things
c) i regret discussing how comprehensible these words are to non-gamers. this is extremely technical jargon for very online people with a specific interest. these words are not for non-gamers, and they never get used in conversations with non-gamers, so their comprehension of these words is irrelevant. "don't say metroidvania, say explact" is like "don't say pro se, say for yourself."

How [do you know what a metroidvania is without playing Metroid], if you have to experience it first?

i'll put the answer in spoilers but i want you to guess
talking about video games on the internet

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Neato, an account

OoT isn't a metroidvania. Plot flags open areas up, not your abilities. Also, it has distinct dungeons.

Maybe an individual dungeon is like a mini-metroidvania, where there's the pre-item phase and the post-item phase. But the game as a whole is a Zelda-like, not a metroidvania

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Neato, an account

foolm0r0n posted...

I fully understand your argument but it's extremely dumb.

"Exploration" is literally a word in a dictionary that people use all the time for all kinds of things. You can translate it natively to others language. How the hell would "Metroid" be better understood? I honestly don't know how you believe this argument, but it seems genuine.

Beyond that, you are also arguing that adding "vania" makes the term even more well understood. Even though you need to know:
* It refers to Castlevania
* It refers to just SOTN and not any of a dozen other Castlevanias

* It doesn't refer to any of the RPG elements, only the map and abilities

How??

The number of gamers who've heard metroidvania is bigger than the number of gamers who've heard "exploration action." Both terms are equally inaccessible to non-gamers; "what is a metroidvania" requires the same answer as "what is an exploration action game."

"but exploration and action are both real words non-gamers know!"

please ask your non-gaming relatives how they think an "exploration action" game works. they will probably say something like "idk, all video games include exploration and action." see if they come up with anything involving gates and keys. or better yet, don't waste your time because you already know both terms are equally non-descriptive

foolm0r0n posted...

Also "you have to play this specific video game in order to understand the word that describes it"

I knew what a Metroidvania was before I played my first Metroid.

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Neato, an account

foolm0r0n posted...

I don't agree with your idea that "metroid" and "vania" are equally well understood as "exploration" and "action"

Does anyone know what an exploration action game is that hasn't heard of a metroidvania?

which of the following 2 exchanges is more likely:
"what's an exploration action game?"
"a metroidvania"
"thanks I completely understand now"

or

"what's a metroidvania?"
"an exploration action game"
"thanks I completely understand now"

the answer is the first one. The concept of a metroidvania/explact will be unfamiliar to you until you actually experience it. Once you've experienced it, the word you'll pick up for this has like a 99.9% chance of being "metroidvania"

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Kenri posted...

I wouldn't even say this. If someone who didn't know what a Metroidvania was played Metroid Prime and Symphony of the Night, they could easily come away from that saying "okay, I played an FPS and a JRPG. Where are the exploration action games?"

Who's heard of "exploration action" but not "metroidvania" though? This is a nonexistent category of person. Exploration action would maybe be a slightly easier term for this hypothetical person to learn, but this hypothetical person doesn't exist.

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Neato, an account

ChichiriMuyo posted...

When I was really young I remember this one game that came out of nowhere for me...

Peek-a-boo!

I didn't see that shit coming when I was 2.

i appreciate this joke

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Neato, an account

MZero posted...

If someone doesn't know what Metroid is, telling them it's a Metroidvania does nothing. They don't know what "metroid" or "vania" is referring to. If you tell them it's "Exploration Action", they know what the elements mean so they can at least get a general idea of what it is.

You're discussing metroidvanias with people who don't know what metroid is? This is like saying we should change the name "wavebounce" in Smash Bros because it's meaningless to people who've never heard of wavedashing and doesn't tell you anything about it.

Also exploration action is a really generic term. Like sure, you can tell won't play like an FPS or JRPG, but "exploration action" sounds like basically any game with real-time combat where you're looking around for stuff. Metroidvanias have a really specific structure that you have to see to understand. You can't communicate the genre to the uninitiated in a snappy little 3-word name, you need a full description.

MZero posted...

also Metroidvania can't be compared to a word like "candy" that literally every English speaker knows. It's not on that level of awareness. I doubt even 50% of English speakers know what it means

My contention is that the word metroidvania is known and used by too many people to be forcibly changed from the outside by scolding people who say metroidvania.

foolm0r0n posted...

The vania part is nonsense that has confused the genre.

Who's actually confused about what constitutes a metroidvania because of the vania part? Literally nobody, or merely practically nobody?

foolm0r0n posted...

btw you know you agree with me right? You repeated my exact point but worse.

I don't agree with you. You're saying that people should stop saying -vania because metroidvanias are all metroid and no vania.

You've obviously never taken a linguistics class. If you had, you would understand that language change is a bottom up process. Someone says a word, their friends go "hey i like that word" and also start saying the word. And then eventually, everyone knows what the word means.


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Neato, an account

I don't think this is what you mean but Magic the Gathering. One of my exes taught me how to play. It's the kind of game that reprograms your brain and there are so many ways to engage with it except just playing.

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Neato, an account

>Ok now explain how Metroidvania conveys genre in a vaccum. Or RPG or FPS.

Metroidvania conveys genre because metroidvania is a word in the language english that means "game like metroid"

You may as well be asking "explain how the word 'candy' conveys meaning in a vacuum." It just does. That's how language works: a bunch of people start saying something, so now that thing they say is part of the language.

If we called Metroidvanias "coathanger baklavas" ("Just finished SotN so now I'm looking for a new coathanger baklava") then that would be the correct term to use instead of something more "descriptive," because a tiny little genre name doesn't tell you what kind of game it is unless you already know lots of games in that genre and others so you can compare them.

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Neato, an account

woah

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Neato, an account

DeepsPraw posted...

If anyone deserves to rot in high security prison though, it's the fucks who post on Kiwi Farms

Yes, posting on a message board is worse than repeatedly raping your elderly mother while being autistic and low in intelligence. You are a stable person. The internet hasn't poisoned your moral compass at all

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ChainLTTP posted...

Surprised that Mer/Michete has as few followers as he does

i was too and then i examined mer's content and now i'm like "yep makes sense"

pimanrules is doing pretty well youtube-wise, he's just gotta come up with a few more bangers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu3HEwc6Pwk&pp=sAQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yUPhRJtNJM&t=15s&pp=sAQA

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Neato, an account

Most: Bea, Jay, Kay, Elle, Em
Least: Adolf, Benito, whatever your mom's name is

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I can't believe you managed to play the game blind

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Neato, an account

I dislike this song

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Neato, an account

"Can you get me a sandwich now"

Get the king a non- chicken sandwich


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Neato, an account

Street Fighter

Also probably Magic the Gathering

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Neato, an account

rpgmaker games are like 100x as likely to make me cry as any other form of art

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Neato, an account

my pet peeve is when people are women

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Neato, an account

feel free to refute even one single solitary point or make an argument for another character being better-written

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Neato, an account

Having 2 siblings much younger than me has taught me that I do not want kids. I don't have enough emotional energy for them and I'm not willing to make all the financial sacrifices necessary.

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Neato, an account

Anagram posted...

This take is hotter than the surface of the sun.

I mean who is actually a better-written character than her? Nagito and Kaede are cool people and all but are they actually better-written characters?

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Neato, an account

Oh yeah this is the game that everyone kept mentioning in the "last game to blow your mind" topic, I should play it

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Neato, an account

Angie is the best character in the whole series. No other student has a more fully fleshed-out personality, a bigger impact on the other characters, or more to say about the real world than Angie. People write her off as a one-note joke character, but she's actually a tragic case of a crippling mental illness infecting every part of her psyche and causing massive problems for everyone around her until she dies from it.

The Atua thing is not a joke. You're not supposed to lol every single time she mentions Atua. Her auditory hallucinations are the reason she is so absolutely confident in all her decisions. If you believed the voice of god always told you that what you want to do is exactly right, you're going to be willing to do whatever you want. She's using her own hallucinations to justify what she wants to do anyway, without even realizing it. Any consequences are merely god's will.

Also every character in the cast has to either join or reject the student council. I love that the robot finds religion but the religion scholar doesn't. I also love the religion itself. It combines a Christian-style singular personified god who appears to their followers in whatever form appeals to them, the Buddhist idea that the root of all suffering is human desire, and an MLM-style point system.

Plus, from a certain point of view, she was right. She doesn't even have any unhappy sprites. She lives happily for a couple weeks until someone comes along and turns out the light. At the end of the game, basically everyone is dead, and she is the only character who doesn't get stressed out about it. For 80% of the cast, living like Angie would have been a preferable outcome.

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Neato, an account

Not_an_Owl posted...

I sincerely hope that the next time she's roped into a press conference she doesn't want to be in, Osaka employs the Marshawn Lynch maneuver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1kvwXsZtU8

i immediately love this guy, suck my dick journo scum

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Neato, an account

xp1337 posted...

skip the post-match press conferences for mental health reasons

i am disinclined to believe that this would harm her actual "mental health" and therefore i am inclined dislike her

i would be fine with "no interviews because journos suck" but the wording she used makes me skeptical

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Neato, an account

i'm happy that ulti received a large windfall, good for him <3

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Neato, an account

UltimaterializerX posted...

This is the legit honest answer.

hell yeah Trails in the Sky is downloading right now (its acronym is TitS lmao)

did I miss anything in the 2016-2018 era

it is pretty crazy how good b8's track record is at telling me what kind of games i like


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Neato, an account

thanks for letting me know, i will start paying more attention to 2-week spans of time since those are apparently real cool

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Dragonair posted...

all of b8 is really into fortnite now

what is fartnote is that like an open world survival game

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Nanis23 posted...

The Trails series is all the rage here now

Hell yeah checking it out now

This also makes me think of the Tales series. I should also probably try it, since it's popular with people whose opinions I respect

Leonhart4 posted...

That Breath of the Wild game is pretty good

hell yeah that was fun as heck, I should start that game up again especially since it has so many wacky little fun things

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Neato, an account

I joined around 2007 when Phoenix Wright was super hot (everyone on be3 had a phoenix wright avatar) and that was amazing

Then the last game I played from y'all after I left was Undertale and that was amazing

Then I played Omori after coming back and that was amazing

I know I wanna play Outer Wilds because everyone said it was amazing at the end of April when I came back

what other massive fads did I miss between 2015-ish and this year? because if b7 loves it i will probably also love it

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Neato, an account

impossible, mass effect 2 can't kick

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Neato, an account

UltimaterializerX posted...

Really?

Imagine talking to your boss about a problem you're seeing in the department. You can either talk to them privately about this thing you're seeing, or you can put them on the spot in front of the other employees. If your goal is to come to an agreement with them on how best to handle the problem, you should talk to them individually. If your goal is to epically pwn them in front of your friends, you talk to them in public

Now granted I don't think a message board post asking "what is your problem with me" is a "bullying tactic" but I understand why someone would say that. You're choosing the public option over the private one. We're all equals here and I don't think you're trying to embarrass anyone in front of everyone, but other people might look at that and go "hmmm, this should be in PM's since it's personal"

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Neato, an account

i feel like you can check ulti's 6-pools claim very quickly if you check his state's version of http://propaccess.traviscad.org/clientdb/?cid=1

we all still know his first and last name, right?

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Neato, an account

Shonen_Bat posted...

No idea what this one is about but I'm down for story driven games. Thanks for the heads up.

Hell yeah interactive fiction

When b8 recommends a game I've never heard of, usually it's really good

18 gigs though oof

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Neato, an account

happy belated 17th account birthday

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Neato, an account

like for instance in last surprise

i have the little bit where it says "you'll never see it coming" but instead the lyrics are "i'm bleeding from my asshole" and idk why because i'm not

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Neato, an account

would love to nominate:

danganronpa
danganronpa 2
danganronpa v3

also this topic series should have a spoiler warning in the title right

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Neato, an account

Here's a fun question: how many keys does the Bug Fables battle theme go through each time it loops?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6-QDDR7zO8

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masterplum posted...

I think duck bear is the only person I have blocked due to their posts being annoying

me too actually, both mrduckbear and full throttle

I wonder if they'd be fine if they participated in normal topics like a normal person

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Neato, an account

Jesse_Custer posted...

If I stop playing a game Im enjoying for a day or two because I got too busy, I often lose interest and dont go back to it. So I hardly ever finish a game.

Yeah this is me

Also there are a lot of games where I can't get myself to push through the start. It's not like a movie or song where you can fast forward until it starts getting good again, really. It kinda is but not really.

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Neato, an account

Started Bug Fables at the beginning of the year in Spanish, got through chapter 2

Starting again in English because, you know, English

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trdl23 posted...

Is anyone gonna explain that's a B8 meme, or

i had no idea but the intended tone was really obvious

sunroof is also joking with us, i am very sure

also FUck off , Troll

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