Board 8 > Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard Trial 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen posted...

Blindly disbelieving police is not better than blindly believing them.

I won't take the word of police above a random person necessarily, but I will take the word of police over that of a known liar.

Your attitude towards police is as hateful as the things you accuse them of being. It's basically just comes off as a desire to hate on a group of people moreso than a realistic take on police.

Maybe you missed the part where recently police allowed 19 children to die and spent the past two weeks trying to protect their own asses.

Spoilers they are not the exception.

Lopen posted...

Blindly disbelieving police is not better than blindly believing them.

I'm not doing either one in this particular scenario, which was extremely clear in my original post.

Lopen posted...

Your attitude towards police is as hateful as the things you accuse them of being.

Yeah but the difference is that it's hatred against something you become by choice, rather than being born into.

I'm also A-OK with being hateful towards Nazis and rapists if that's your next question.

Lopen posted...

Blindly disbelieving police is not better than blindly believing them.

I won't take the word of police above a random person necessarily, but I will take the word of police over that of a known liar.

Your attitude towards police is as hateful as the things you accuse them of being. It's basically just comes off as a desire to hate on a group of people moreso than a realistic take on police.

In this case you are taking the word of the police over the victim?

Also police is an occupation absolutely worshipped by the vast majority of society, the idea that hating police is as bad as the thing youre accusing them of (doing racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc) is illogical and just stupid.

But all of this is beside the point, if any of you guys would fucking read what was said, no one HERE called that specific cop a homophobe or misogynist, we said its weird to take such a strong stance when shes literally arguing against the victim of the alleged abuse.

Listen, it's just extremely weird to shoehorn in anti-cop bullshit when all of the cops involved did the right things and the one cop Amber claimed was being a bigot against gay women was a gay woman herself, because she purposefully intended to discredit that one cop from doing the right thing by forcing her to stop assaulting her wife at the time.

Like I am all for anti-cop stuff, and I routinely talk about it and advocate for the changes that need to be made to hold them accountable, but every cop involved in this case did the right thing, and she was lying about every single one of them to prey on the already preconceived and valid feelings of cops being the shits. So why bring it up here and now? Why perpetuate the bullshit she wanted people to believe?

It's a part of the misplaced anger where everyone is pissed off at right wing nutters who are celebrating this case when they would have caused a bunch of shit if Johnny lost entirely anyway. Where the mainstream media wants you to be pissed off that an abused man who was lied about defended himself and ruined the progress of MeToo, when if anything they should be pissed off at Amber for using that for her own gain to ruin someone's life and propel her own career based entirely off lies.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

In this case you are taking the word of the police over the victim?

Believing her ex full stop would mean she's not a victim.

The anti-cop bullshit isnt shoehorned lol, when you have an incident where both people are contradicting each other, and one of those people is a cop saying there was a crime where the alleged victim of that crime is literally saying no, it was a misunderstanding by the cops, you would be an insane person to side with the cops in this situation.

kevwaffles posted...

Believing her ex full stop would mean she's not a victim.

Im gonna assume this is a joke and not a semantic gotcha because I didnt put victim in quotes.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The anti-cop bullshit isnt shoehorned lol, when you have an incident where both people are contradicting each other, and one of those people is a cop saying there was a crime where the alleged victim of that crime is literally saying no, it was a misunderstanding by the cops, you would be an insane person to side with the cops in this situation.

Im gonna assume this is a joke and not a semantic gotcha because I didnt put victim in quotes.

No, she said "The arresting officer was a homophobic misogynist" in order to protect her abuser, which is extremely common, when the arresting officer was a gay woman. She didn't just say "It was a misunderstanding." She said "The arresting officer was unfairly targeting us because they're a bigot." Abused people have constantly protected their abuser. It was a factor in this case when Johnny didn't tell everyone Amber destroyed his finger. Hell, it was Amber's defense when she supposedly didn't tell people about Johnny beating her nearly to death on the regular.

Her co-stars in Never Back Down around this time even said she was constantly abusive to her ex as well. And she even made this statement while she was still with Amber, giving her more reason to LIE about the arresting officer. But believing the lesbian cop wasn't a misogynist bigot is the insane stance here.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im gonna assume this is a joke and not a semantic gotcha because I didnt put victim in quotes.

Neither. Victims of abuse, particularly dv, downplay incidents often for a variety of reasons even when cops get involved.

Im gonna quote myself for you:

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

lol come on, dude! She doesnt have to be a woman hating anti-gay bigot who lied in court, she could just be wrong.

Your wildly exaggerating reads like an Ulti post when he really gets going.

The ex said it seemed like what started as a misunderstanding blew up to what it did in a way that seemed homophobic, because it was right after the cops found out they were partners.

She said their attitudes seemed misogynistic before that. It does not mean she said the lesbian cop is a homophobic misogynist.

Tony, you talk so confidently about topics you know absolutely nothing about. Constantly.

It's an impressive talent you possess and you are so brave for it.

Literally nothing I just said has been reported differently.

You have a different interpretation based on your opinion of the testimony of Officer Leonard, but only one of us is asserting they know the absolute truth, and its not me.

By the way, Depp will be back in court in July, as he's being sued for allegedly assaulting a crew member on a movie set in 2017.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

but only one of us is asserting they know the absolute truth, and its not me.

To be fair, while you may not intend to be doing so, you're also doing this by going "It'd be crazy to believe the cop," because then that leaves only one other answer. Definitively removing one of two answers is basically the same as definitively saying one answer is correct.

Jesus ChaosTony, just shut up.

Wow, this got Toxic fast.

Heard *does* have that effect on people, after all.

It turned toxic because certain users dug into political agenda that nobody over here implied. And by users I mean ChaosTony mostly.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Remember the officer who arrested her testifying? She said she was a lesbian. So Amber and her ex were lying, yet again, about other people. There was no homophobia or misogyny involved.

lol wut? it's entirely possible to simultaneously be gay and homophobic. watch american beauty sometime.

additionally, it's entirely possible to be a woman and misogynist. lauren southern is a good example of this.

Amber Heard is being hated for her actions, her absurd lies (which were literally exposed on so many accounts) and her sanctimonious holier than thou personality that she displayed infront of the jury, which is especially rich coming from someone as troubled as she is. Not because she is a woman. Not because she is bisexual. Not because we are Johnny Depp fans. But for the simple fact that she is a terrible human being. Nobody over here implied anything other than that.

So there is nothing wrong with celebrating someone like Amber Heard getting her comeuppance.

biscuit was saying "the officer heard claims is a bigot is a gay woman, so she can't be homophobic or misogynist." that's an absurd stance. doesn't matter whether heard or the cop is right.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

biscuit was saying "the officer heard claims is a bigot is a gay woman, so she can't be homophobic or misogynist." that's an absurd stance. doesn't matter whether heard or the cop is right.

It's unlikely, isn't it? Not impossible, but that lowers the probability considerably.

red sox 777 posted...

It's unlikely, isn't it? Not impossible, but that lowers the probability considerably.

sure. my problem is with biscuit saying "it's impossible."

StealThisSheen posted...

To be fair, while you may not intend to be doing so, you're also doing this by going "It'd be crazy to believe the cop," because then that leaves only one other answer. Definitively removing one of two answers is basically the same as definitively saying one answer is correct.

I said itd be crazy to believe the cop when the person theyre contradicting is the literal victim lol. I think its worth pointing out that I said twice its totally possible the cop is wrong, and it was the Biscuit/Lopens who implied the only reason to disagree was cop based politics

Axl_Rose_85 posted...

It turned toxic because certain users dug into political agenda that nobody over here implied. And by users I mean ChaosTony mostly.

These replies are genuinely so funny, its like a mob. Re-read the topic, goofball.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I said itd be crazy to believe the cop when the person theyre contradicting is the literal victim lol.

Its weird how all the modern discourse around abuse heavily emphasizes the multiple reasons why victims would downplay or outright deny their own abuse, but here in this particular case its apparently crazy to even think that could have happened.

@ChaosTonyV4

No need. Topic became dumb as soon as you started opening your mouth. Do everyone a favor and keep it shut.

Axl_Rose_85 posted...

@ChaosTonyV4

No need. Topic became dumb as soon as you started opening your mouth. Do everyone a favor and keep it shut.

lol oh did Summer Break start already, huh? Go outside, bud.

redrocket posted...

Its weird how all the modern discourse around abuse heavily emphasizes the multiple reasons why victims would downplay or outright deny their own abuse, but here in this particular case its apparently crazy to even think that could have happened.

Does our modern discourse emphasize it? Its definitely a thing that happens, but do we have any evidence or reason to believe it happened here?

Mr Lasastryke posted...

watch american beauty sometime

but Kevin spacey is cancelled

Kenri posted...

Yeah but the difference is that it's hatred against something you become by choice, rather than being born into.

I'm also A-OK with being hateful towards Nazis and rapists if that's your next question.

I'm sure self righteous racists in the past have compared black people to Nazis and rapists too.

Axl_Rose_85 posted...

It turned toxic because certain users dug into political agenda that nobody over here implied. And by users I mean ChaosTony mostly.

nah this topic was toxic from post one in the last thread

the entire trial is a net negative for everyone involved and in a perfect world would've been kept behind closed doors

colliding posted...

nah this topic was toxic from post one in the last thread

the entire trial is a net negative for everyone involved and in a perfect world would've been kept behind closed doors

If this trial was kept behind closed doors, we would be getting all of the biased and/or incorrect media coverage and everyone would think the result was completely fraudulent and that Amber was innocent, instead of being able to see for themselves that Amber Heard was the abuser all along and did in fact have a crazy hoax to destroy Depp's life.

Just look at the articles STILL coming out and trying to misrepresent what happened. Johnny wouldn't have had a chance to clear his name if the trial was kept private and people didn't see for themselves what happened in court.

johnny depp is not your friend

ok good talk

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Just look at the articles STILL coming out and trying to misrepresent what happened. Johnny wouldn't have had a chance to clear his name if the trial was kept private and people didn't see for themselves what happened in court.

yes, you've correctly identified that the trial was a PR move for Johnny Depp, which is the thing being complained about

I personally recognized little toxicity in this topic series while the trial was going. Most people contributing to the discussion were civil and several of us tried to keep it light throughout. It at least seemed like a fun time to me anyway.

Then after the verdict this topic took a nose dive into the ground and buried any and all joviality. Guess I shouldn't be surprised that everyone starts fighting after the final decision was made though.

Lopen posted...

I'm sure self righteous racists in the past have compared black people to Nazis and rapists too.

I'm begging you to stop embarrassing yourself lmao

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

yes, you've correctly identified that the trial was a PR move for Johnny Depp, which is the thing being complained about

Literally complaining that a man had his day in court to fight back against getting skewered in the court of public opinion/the media.

Kenri posted...

I'm begging you to stop embarrassing yourself lmao

It's Lopen in a Politics topic

Kenri posted...

I'm begging you to stop embarrassing yourself lmao

I'm just calling you what you are. In a different era you'd absolutely be a bigot. It's a toxic mindset that oozes from you, you're just desperately looking for that low hanging fruit.

Like here's the key

You're making sweeping judgments on a group of people based on zero first hand experience with that group, entirely based on hearsay. That's literally how racism and homophobia spread back in the day (and continues to spread today, albeit at a smaller scale)

It has nothing to do with choice vs born. That's an arbitrary distinction you created to feel justified.

A police officer isn't defined by violating someone or oppressing a specific group like a rapist or a Nazi. Plenty of people become police officers for reasons that have nothing to do with some sick desire to exert control over people.

Just because you hear some stories about some bad ones doesn't mean you know anything about them.

Lopen posted...

Like here's the key

You're making sweeping judgments on a group of people based on zero first hand experience with that group, entirely based on hearsay. That's literally how racism and homophobia spread back in the day (and continues to spread today, albeit at a smaller scale)

It has nothing to do with choice vs born. That's an arbitrary distinction you created to feel justified.

A police officer isn't defined by violating someone or oppressing a specific group like a rapist or a Nazi. Plenty of people become police officers for reasons that have nothing to do with some sick desire to exert control over people. Plenty of police officers are completely reasonable and out to try and legitimately help people. And then some are somewhere in the middle, just doing the work because it's something they're qualified for and they need money just like everyone else.

Just because you hear some stories about some bad ones doesn't mean you know anything about them.

In America there is institutionalized problems that by nature police officers have to accept to be police officers. Those that speak up have consistently been shown to be fired.

Seeing hundreds of stories a year about how police are not held accountable and comparing it to bigotry is incredibly yikes. But also I can see how it would appeal to you as you like novel arguments. Also not everyone who mutters about cops is on your level intellectually so it is probably pretty fun to bat this around.

Lopen posted...

I'm just calling you what you are. In a different era you'd absolutely be a bigot. It's a toxic mindset that oozes from you, you're just desperately looking for that low hanging fruit.

Youre talking about cops. A literal JOB, one capable of actual abuse of rights with no punishment, and comparing it to being born black and not having civil rights because of it.

Legitimately one of the nuttiest things Ive ever seen posted here.

CassandraCain posted...

I personally recognized little toxicity in this topic series while the trial was going. Most people contributing to the discussion were civil and several of us tried to keep it light throughout. It at least seemed like a fun time to me anyway.

Please dont take this the wrong way, but youre talking about a court case involving abuse thateven if the verdict was 100% correctwill lead to misogyny, as well as pain for victims of abuse.

The fact that it was a fun spectacle at all is an indictment of our culture tbh.

Listen man

There are hundreds of stories, but there are probably tens of thousands of stories of police officers just... you know, doing mundane shit that is what's actually in the job description, because the police profession is by and large an uneventful one depending on where you are.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the system of police work at some level.

I'm saying that judging people who become police officers at a broad strokes level is grossly misinformed at best, and in the case of Kenri seems like an outlet to be hateful that is deemed socially acceptable in his circles.

So I mean the problem is at some level it comes down to individual districts and stuff. Like to compare it to a different profession, this random corrupt police sector might be Blizzard-- you've got a lot of stories coming out of certain areas because there is a systemic problem in those areas.

But the analog would be like saying because you see a lot of stories about Blizzard employees that people become software engineers and game developers because they want to be creeps towards women.

It's patently ridiculous.

Lopen posted...

Listen man

There are hundreds of stories, but there are probably tens of thousands of stories of police officers just... you know, doing mundane shit that is what's actually in the job description, because the police profession is by and large an uneventful one depending on where you are.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the system of police work at some level.

I'm saying that judging people who become police officers at a broad strokes level is grossly misinformed at best, and in the case of Kenri seems like an outlet to be hateful that is deemed socially acceptable in his circles.

So I mean the problem is at some level it comes down to individual districts and stuff. Like to compare it to a different profession, this random corrupt police sector might be Blizzard-- you've got a lot of stories coming out of certain areas because there is a systemic problem in those areas.

But the analog would be like saying because you see a lot of stories about Blizzard employees that people become software engineers and game developers because they want to be creeps towards women.

It's patently ridiculous.

The analog breaks down because while whistle blowers at blizzard got the state of California to crack down whistle blowers for police are fired and nothing ever changes.

Qualified immunity
Incredibly low grand jury rate
Incredible amounts of funding
Police unions fighting against basic transparency measures.

Like I get your point. Not every person who is a cop has done it for the wrong reasons. It is why I think ACAB is bad optics and lazy messaging. However when you put on that uniform and don't speak up when you see something you become part of the problem. So many stories have come out about police corruption and those are just the ones that have come out. For people in such positions of power with a blank check they can't be given the benefit of the doubt.

Because there's no one that is going to hold them accountable most of the time. Unlike blizzard.

Like I'm gonna be clear here

I don't idolize police officers or military workers. I agree society is dumb for putting people who are just doing a job on a pedestal.

But that doesn't mean flipping over and thinking that every police officer is inherently as unreliable as a known liar either. There are bad people in the profession, yes. There are bad people in probably 90% of professions. In the end it comes down to not the professions themselves, but people.

Police officers aren't inherently corrupt, it's just that the job itself allows them a certain leverage that allows corrupt people to exploit it moreso than in other professions.

We should be calling for reform of the system so that morally foul people are not able to exploit it, not lynching the every police officer.

Lopen posted...

But that doesn't mean flipping over and thinking that every police officer is inherently as unreliable as a known liar either.

i think everyone but tony agrees with you here

Lopen posted...

We should be calling for reform of the system, not lynching the every police officer.

the police adamantly refuse to reform the system, though, so they are the problem. if you're a police officer and want to reform the system, you're going to quickly find yourself fired, because they prioritize protecting each other over serving the public. accountability and transparency are not to their benefit

I think you will find the venom thrown at police officers online is born out of frustration that we cannot change the system. It refuses to be changed. Even after police officers stand by for an hour and children die the mainstream message is 'police need more funding.' That department had 40% of that city's budget.

Also I think police officers in America are inherently problematic on a systemic level because they won't allow this system to be changed. It is what it is st this point. If you don't allow the system that is exploited to be changed then you are part of the problem.

I think this is largely an American problem. Training is much better in other places from what I see. Of course there are places with even worse corruption too but those are kind of already known.

Like yeah would love to just reform the system but the police keep lobbying hard against any such measures. Until they stop, they get the same brush.

agesboy posted...

i think everyone but tony agrees with you here

This is so fucking crazy, you guys literally do not read what I post.

How many times do I need to reiterate that my position is its more likely shes wrong than lying?

GuessMyUserName posted...

there seems to be a lot of arguing against claims that aren't actually made in these last few posts

this kept going on for a whole page

DoomTheGyarados posted...

However when you put on that uniform and don't speak up when you see something you become part of the problem. So many stories have come out about police corruption and those are just the ones that have come out. For people in such positions of power with a blank check they can't be given the benefit of the doubt.

Here's the problem

The inherent problems in the system probably aren't obvious in the start. There is also an incredibly high rate of turnover in entry level law enforcement, so a lot of potential whistle blowers are probably weeded out at the gates with the more corrupt areas, and they aren't able to speak out credibly without sounding like a typical disgruntled employee.

If you get to a certain level, you can speak out credibly, but at that point you have something to lose. I can't judge people for not speaking up when it's their pension, their 10-20 years of service with benefits on the line.

And honestly, the "tens of thousands of stories of police officers just doing their job" is probably not hyperbole. So much of police work is just routine stuff that does in fact help the general public good, even if it's not anything you're going to read about in newspapers. Like I don't know how many of you have actually lived in slummy areas but let me tell you when gangs and drug addicts are things you actually experience first hand, you tend to appreciate the fact that police exist and realize that yes there are worse alternatives than law enforcement.

I'm just saying like, reading stuff on the Internet you have no idea of what the system actually is-- and for every legitimate story you hear there is probably a Kenri out there trying to spread hate and not earnestly digesting the facts too and spinning an incident that isn't really that bad of a look for law enforcement. I work in IT with a government focus and a lot of my clients are in law enforcement and as such I have some exposure to the industry without being directly involved in it and I'm telling you by and large people in law enforcement are just like people in any other job. They aren't heroes, but they aren't villains either. They're just doing their job as best they can, and for the people who aren't sadistic believe it or not it's actually in their best interests to NOT abuse their position to control people because that tends to make their job harder, not easier. I've seen first hand several people get checked into detention centers as I was fixing problems with their booking PCs or whatever, spitting mad, trying to openly provoke police officers into doing bad things, and police officers keeping a cool head and trying to calm the person down, with no violence ultimately taking place-- you think that kinda stuff isn't more commonplace than the alternative? That's literally what their training is, to calm situations down.

Police corruption is a story that sells. We do need more regulation, particularly at the higher levels, in areas where more of those stories are coming out. But this distortion some of you are living out in your head where all police officers are just taking the job because they want to a license to exert control over others, it's incredibly sheltered and shows that you probably have lived in a cushy neighborhood your whole life and haven't actually met any real police officers or criminals in your life. I've had my fill of both and while there are exceptions on both ends, I would much prefer living in an area where there a lot of cops than a lot of drug addicts, drug dealers, gangs, vandals, etc.