Board 8 > Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard Trial 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

I just don't trust anyone who wields the power of the law, even though I recognize the need for it's existence. I lived through systematic abuse for many years, and seen that same system completely ignore people who needed help. It's a system that doesn't want to be fixed.

Though my personal experiences with the police do give me a bias. Twice I've dealt with officers, and twice they've been actively abusive. I never even got a reason why for the last time. I was being yelled at before I even said anything and physically threatened for asking why I was pulled over. The condescension was dripping from every word they spoke.

Then they threatened me again as they were leaving just for funsies.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This is so fucking crazy, you guys literally do not read what I post.

How many times do I need to reiterate that my position is its more likely shes wrong than lying?

Christ alive Tony.

You think it's likely she was wrong about witnessing Amber Heard drunk off her ass, screaming at her partner, grabbing her by the arm, violently pulling a necklace off of her and leaving a mark on her neck?

Or do you think it's more likely that Amber's ex-partner was lying to protect her abuser, like what is so common with abuse victims?

You are so dense sometimes. Like you cannot just admit that it's most likely Amber and her ex-partner, both noted terrible, lying people, are just fucking lying to protect their asses, and that the cop wasn't just misunderstanding or lying.

He also in this very topic took "is a police officer" vs "has a known history of lying" to be a net neutral in terms of trustworthiness. Like Kenri is comparing police officers to rapists, and tends to trust the accused over police in general.

My mom literally got raped by a gang member when I was 8 and they broke into our house beat her to a pulp, raped her, and stole a bunch of shit. There is no comparison to make. He is taking the side of a group that includes literal actual rapists in non-trivial amounts over people he compares to rapists in analogies. It's fucking ridiculous.

I'm not saying hold police on a pedestal-- I'm saying take in the facts and realize that probably more people "repressed" by police are awful people than people working as police. It's an awful world out there. Some police being able to exploit holes in the system doesn't mean all or even most police are bad people. It means the system needs reform. It means that you shouldn't by default trust police, but that doesn't mean you by default flip to distrusting them because there a LOT of people they're dealing with that are terrible people and quite literally the nazis and rapists we're comparing police to.

Lopen posted...

If you get to a certain level, you can speak out credibly, but at that point you have something to lose. I can't judge people for not speaking up when it's their pension, their 10-20 years of service with benefits on the line.

i think it's fair to judge these people to some extent.

I mean it's fair to be sure but I don't personally hold it against them. It doesn't make them awful people as long as they themselves aren't being corrupt-- it just doesn't make them particularly good people.

But then again I'm not someone putting them on a pedestal. If you do put police on a pedestal, you absolutely should.

Lopen posted...

A police officer isn't defined by violating someone or oppressing a specific group like a rapist or a Nazi.

That's exactly what police are defined by. Do we live in the same reality?

Lopen posted...

I'm saying that judging people who become police officers at a broad strokes level is grossly misinformed at best, and in the case of Kenri seems like an outlet to be hateful that is deemed socially acceptable in his circles.

You mean, what, Board 8? Or my real life social circles? Because I once said "police should be held to a higher standard than fast food workers" and immediately got shouted down by an entire room full of friends that disagreed with me. I live in a pretty conservative area; my venom for cops comes from my genuine beliefs (and, crucially, because it's very funny how much it bothers people like you), not because I expect it to be socially acceptable.

Kenri posted...

Because I once said "police should be held to a higher standard than fast food workers" and immediately got shouted down by an entire room full of friends that disagreed with me.

People who actually idolize cops would say "they are" not disagree with you

Sounds like you're making up fake stories to win an argument, bro

Lopen I feel thinks people are more hinged than they actually are about these topics. I will leave it at that.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Christ alive Tony.

You think it's likely she was wrong about witnessing Amber Heard drunk off her ass, screaming at her partner, grabbing her by the arm, violently pulling a necklace off of her and leaving a mark on her neck?

Or do you think it's more likely that Amber's ex-partner was lying to protect her abuser, like what is so common with abuse victims?

You are so dense sometimes. Like you cannot just admit that it's most likely Amber and her ex-partner, both noted terrible, lying people, are just fucking lying to protect their asses, and that the cop wasn't just misunderstanding or lying.

You think Tasya is both a victim of Amber Heards, but also a terrible, lying person, trying to protect her ass by saying in 2016, years after they split, that it was a misunderstanding?

So it stands to reason that you believe Elon is a terrible lying person protecting his ass as well? And Johnny used to be a terrible lying person?

Lopen posted...

People who actually idolize cops would say "they are" not disagree with you

Sounds like you're making up fake stories to win an argument, bro

I don't need to make up fake stories when cop stans are actually this ridiculous. I can't really blame you for not believing it though because I could not believe it either.

(Also, I am legitimately sorry to hear about what happened to your mom. I would have picked murderers or something instead of rapists as a comparison had I known that.)

Lopen posted...

People who actually idolize cops would say "they are" not disagree with you

Sounds like you're making up fake stories to win an argument, bro

If they said they are they would literally be disagreeing with him when his position is that they are not, lol.

Also the context was "if a fast food employee screams at or physically abuses someone just for being rude to them, they get fired". You can't make the claim that police are held to a higher standard there because they're just... not.

So that's why there was disagreement rather saying than "they are".

I am just saying you come off as someone who has hatred for cops not grounded in reality, not unlike the mindset people afflicted by prejudices, rather than someone who's credible when discussing them, and I hope you realize that the extreme nature of your position is not something most people should be expected to agree with, even among people who have no particular fondness for the police.

Also your story does not reflect how I would expect people who idealize cops to act, nor do I quite frankly believe you could actually be friends with people who idealize cops. Hell I probably couldn't be friends with people who idealize cops.

But all I'm saying is cops are people. If you think "cops have been given too much power and as such some bad people within the organization have exploited that to make all cops look bad" is "stanning" for cops then I dunno what to tell ya. I just think you come off as completely absurd when you try to compare them to nazis or rapists and think that makes your point look valid or credible.

Can someone give me the cutoff post where to stop reading? Because the fucking Godwin's Law didn't start until after the verdict happened... which should tell you enough about the people who posted their first thing in here.

And I am aware of the hypocrisy despite following the topics since day 1.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

You think Tasya is both a victim of Amber Heards, but also a terrible, lying person, trying to protect her ass by saying in 2016, years after they split, that it was a misunderstanding?

So it stands to reason that you believe Elon is a terrible lying person protecting his ass as well? And Johnny used to be a terrible lying person?

You can be a terrible liar and also a victim of abuse. How do I even have to say this?

Lopen posted...

Also your story does not reflect how I would expect people who idealize cops to act,

have you ever tried to have a calm conversation about religion, gun rights, or cops in the deep south when you're heavily outnumbered by people with very strong opinions about those things? they see red immediately if you disrespect any of them

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

You can be a terrible liar and also a victim of abuse. How do I even have to say this?

Is your misrepresentation of what we both just said intentional or are you trying to twist words around to look correct?

First of all, you didn't say "terrible liar", you said "terrible, lying people", which are two completely different things.

I'm asking you if it makes you a terrible person to BE a victim of abuse who lies about it, or is there more to her being terrible, and what is it?

Lopen posted...

Also your story does not reflect how I would expect people who idealize cops to act, nor do I quite frankly believe you could actually be friends with people who idealize cops. Hell I probably couldn't be friends with people who idealize cops.

Bro -- everyone idolizes* cops. I don't know a single person in real life who doesn't. My police abolitionist mother was saying today she wished there were more cops at my niece's graduation in case there was a shooting! Explain how tf that one tracks! Even if someone doesn't like police they probably still idolize war criminals or whatever. You've gotta agree to disagree at a certain point or just suffer in loneliness, I guess.

*Idolize is a pretty strong word if that's the sticking point here, but it's close; not sure what else to call it

Edit: misread idealize as idolize, ignore that last part I guess

Lopen posted...

I just think you come off as completely absurd when you try to compare them to nazis or rapists and think that makes your point look valid or credible.

I'm not trying to look valid or credible, I'm trying to meet your energy when you came in swinging with "cop-hating sheep" or whatever. I feel like my first post was pretty reasonable and it could have easily kept going that way but I really didn't see a reason to treat most of your posts up until now with any kind of respect.

agesboy posted...

have you ever tried to have a calm conversation about religion, gun rights, or cops in the deep south when you're heavily outnumbered by people with very strong opinions about those things? they see red immediately if you disrespect any of them

Yes. I have. I've learned to avoid those topics very well among my clients that are very conservative, of which there are many. Friends that are, not so much, because well, people who are very much into these things don't tend to be my friends. I have a couple of friends that are kinda into gun rights but yeah it's easy enough to just not discuss that.

But yeah it's not that they disagreed or that he was shouted out of the room, it's how he presented the story that makes me not believe his story. It pings me in a bad way. I mean whatever if he's telling the truth he's telling the truth-- nothing to gain from convincing me of that and means little if I believe it or not.

I'm just saying it smells of pulling stuff out of his ass so his lack of first hand experience with police can't be focused on. Which frankly, is irrelevant anyway-- discussing police with conservative friends isn't the same as first hand experience with police or crime or anything else either. You can be a sheltered rich kid who gets 95% of their feeling about causes or people from reading things on the internet and also know some conservative people you talk to regularly-- unless those conservative people you talk to are your HUD inspector, a local drug addict neighbor who is shouting out of his house how he's going to shoot you dead while bashing the walls of his trailer who the police can't take in because he's been brought in too many times this week and there's a population problem at the detention center, or actual police officers that you're not being offended towards because they pulled you over, you don't have a lot of ground to stand on as far as character judgments of police vs the accused or the nature of police work or whatever else.

When did I ever say that people who lie about their abuse are terrible or liars? People who co-starred with Amber and saw a lot of Tasya van Ree said she wasn't a great person either. And I would argue that calling someone a misogynist and homophobic without any basis to cover your ass isn't great behavior either.

Listen to yourself that this is the depths of an argument you want to go to defend this. That you ignore the fact that for the cop to be "wrong" she would have to be outright lying about the entire situation, which you claim is less likely. There were PHYSICAL MARKS OF ABUSE on Tasya which is why Amber was placed into custody from the VIOLENT ATTACK that Amber placed on her that the cop witnessed that put the marks on Tasya's body. That is what matters here. There is no "alright but maybe she is wrong". It's either the cop lied or she didn't, or Amber and her ex are lying or they're not.

Stop with this absurdist misdirection.

Lopen posted...

I'm just saying it smells of pulling stuff out of his ass so his lack of first hand experience with police can't be focused on.

You are literally the one who brought up my social circle...? My first hand experience with police has been pretty uniformly negative, but I don't think it's really relevant. An anecdote can be somewhat representative of my friend group, not so much of the 800,000+ cops in the US.

Like I must stress my point wasn't that "hey, Police are good people"

It's "Police are people" and we should treat them like we'd treat any other people and that people by and large don't become police officers because they want to oppress people (nor do they by and large do it because they want to help people, for that matter-- they do it for money, just like every other person who works a job).

When I call you a "police hating sheep" that's because that's what you come off as when you say "well I don't know whether to believe Amber Heard (someone who has a well established history of lying and exhibiting the behavior the officer claims) or random police officer (who you know literally nothing about aside from them being a police officer)"

It's literally the exact same logic process hate groups use to dehumanize and vilify their targets, right down to deluding yourself into believing that it's okay to have this broad strokes hate because you'll be on the right side of history when all the corruption is brought to light.

Lopen posted...

It's literally the exact same logic process hate groups use to dehumanize and vilify their targets

Maybe if you say it enough times you'll convince yourself it's actually the same

I'm not trying to convince myself I'm trying to convince you

But if it was that easy prejudice wouldn't exist in the first place

I think lopen and kenri are both good faith

I don't think lopen understands, and he won't be convinced to understand, how kenri has arrived to this place reasonably over time.

Kenri and others could learn how their language they use at times diminishes their arguments from a lopen perspective, but they don't care because they are so past that point. Which I find reasonable but also I understand what lopen is saying too.

Lopen's stance on cops in a vacuum is fine it just ignores the police worship that goes on by and large in politics and in the media. I find lopen's view very reasonable absent the reality of the situation. Personally? Never had a single bad run in with a police officer. I have known plenty for work related things they all seemed fine to me. Did their jobs well.

But we haven't come any closer to fixing the systemic problems of police and we probably won't in our lifetime. So that sucks.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

it just ignores the police worship that goes on by and large in politics and in the media

It's more that I think a lot of people come to the conclusion that "all cops are bad" entirely because of this (and the flip side, the pieces out there that expose the bad things some cops do) and nothing Kenri has said has convinced me that he has any practical real world experience that leads to an actual informed viewpoint of the police or crime or anything else of that sort.

The thing is, if you're dealing with absolutes, you actually need some real world exposure to how the police system actually works, how crime actually works, and the people involved in both. You need to know that while politics and media glorifying policework is wrong, that doesn't make the media out there that exposes wrongdoing the typical state of affairs either. Both are media sensationalizing, because no one wants to read about the routine stuff. Detention Center work for many counties in particular I think makes me more aware of just how many people are in jail actually deserve to be and are just terrible people, and for every time cops are dicks to them I'm sure they're dick to the cops that many more times over. And there are also plenty of inmates who are completely fine, and get along completely fine with the detention center officers as well, because not every person in a prison is inherently a terrible person either. I also know that at least some "corrupt" cops in some jurisdictions get caught and quietly dealt with-- there is in fact disciplinary action for some, even if it doesn't get a ton of (or necessarily any) media coverage, it's clear that some personnel changes are not a result of a sudden desire to change careers and you can kinda piece things together. Don't want to get into too much details here but yeah.

And you also have to realize that as people, every story like Crescent's out there could possibly be the cop having a bad day due to some other person that was NOT reasonable and being on edge due to it. Because they're people, not robots. They get rattled by things sometimes.

I am glad we get the pieces out there that paint law enforcement in a negative light. I think as we get more and more of those we'll be closer to the reform the system needs. But it's important to not go too far on the other end, too. Blind hate towards police or trying to delude yourself into thinking everyone who takes the job is fulfilling some power fantasy is not productive and comes off as hate speech more than anything, and trying to paint every person who is in prison as a victim of police misconduct until proven guilty is an even more gross misrepresentation of the real world than putting the police on a pedestal.

https://twitter.com/thisiskyler/status/1532132605696548870?s=21&t=tgbmT7CGxx7-fYr9LkxdFQ

Cool and normal country we have.

Remember the simpler days when I could just post how nice depps suits were in peace?

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/thisiskyler/status/1532132605696548870?s=21&t=tgbmT7CGxx7-fYr9LkxdFQ

Cool and normal country we have.

I think we need to ignore dipshits like this. It was the correct verdict. Does it suck that stupid people are using it as a rallying cry? Absolutely. But let's be honest, if it went the other way, they'd be doing the same thing, only under the banner of "Johnny was treated unfairly!" Grifters gonna grift no matter what.

StealThisSheen posted...

I think we need to ignore dipshits like this. It was the correct verdict. Does it suck that stupid people are using it as a rallying cry? Absolutely. But let's be honest, if it went the other way, they'd be doing the same thing, only under the banner of "Johnny was treated unfairly!" Grifters gonna grift no matter what.

This is 100% correct, and I'm overall a bit disappointed by the reactions from some of the Politics topic regulars here.

I imagine things would have been burned down had it gone the other way.

Lopen posted...

When I call you a "police hating sheep" that's because that's what you come off as when you say "well I don't know whether to believe Amber Heard (someone who has a well established history of lying and exhibiting the behavior the officer claims) or random police officer (who you know literally nothing about aside from them being a police officer)"

see, i still don't think it's reasonable to accuse someone of being a "police hating sheep" on the basis of that quote. that quote is pretty much how i feel about this situation and my views on cops are pretty moderate (granted, i don't live in the US so i probably don't have as much of a reason to dislike cops as kenri - though i have had several negative experiences with dutch cops). like, if kenri had said "lol the cop is obviously a lying bitch because she's a cop," "police hating sheep" would have been appropriate, but i don't see the need to use these words in response to what he said.

note that it doesn't have to be a 50/50 split between whether you believe heard or the officer. i do think it's (a lot) more likely that heard is the liar here but i can't completely rule out the possibility that the cop is lying. because this is a he said/she said situation.

again, i think biscuit's "the cop is gay so there's a 0% chance she has homophobic sentiments" claim is a lot more ridiculous and worthy of criticism than what kenri said, but you didn't call out biscuit at all.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

again, i think biscuit's "the cop is gay so there's a 0% chance she has homophobic sentiments" claim is a lot more ridiculous and worthy of criticism than what kenri said, but you didn't call out biscuit at all.

Your reading comprehension is almost as bad as Tony's.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

see, i still don't think it's reasonable to accuse someone of being a "police hating sheep" on the basis of that quote. that quote is pretty much how i feel about this situation and my views on cops are pretty moderate (granted, i don't live in the US so i probably don't have as much of a reason to dislike cops as kenri - though i have had several negative experiences with dutch cops). like, if kenri had said "lol the cop is obviously a lying bitch because she's a cop," "police hating sheep" would have been appropriate, but i don't see the need to use these words in response to what he said.

note that it doesn't have to be a 50/50 split between whether you believe heard or the officer. i do think it's (a lot) more likely that heard is the liar here but i can't completely rule out the possibility that the cop is lying. because this is a he said/she said situation.

again, i think biscuit's "the cop is gay so there's a 0% chance she has homophobic sentiments" claim is a lot more ridiculous and worthy of criticism than what kenri said, but you didn't call out biscuit at all.

Lasa you don't need to take things so literally/maximally. Biscuit isn't claiming absolute knowledge of the situation because he wasn't there. It's like how if I say "American voters are going to reject the Democrats at the polls because the Dems are too socialist" I don't mean literally all Americans are going to vote against them. Nor do I mean that all Democrats are socialists.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Your reading comprehension is almost as bad as Tony's.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Remember the officer who arrested her testifying? She said she was a lesbian. So Amber and her ex were lying, yet again, about other people. There was no homophobia or misogyny involved.

Our bad, you didnt say 0% chance she has homophobic sentiments, you said she was a lesbianno chance homophobia was involved.

Massive difference, lol

Yes. There was no homophobia or misogyny involved because she witnessed Amber Heard violently attacking her partner to the point she saw the marks that she left on her, and they lied and said they were targeted because of misogyny and homophobia, which sounds even more absurd when you know she is a lesbian.

If an officer witnesses someone violently attacking someone and they see marks that they physically left on them, they're getting arrested for assault, full stop. This wasn't a misunderstanding. The officer was not wrong. The officer was not unfairly targeting them. She witnessed assault, the results of the assault on the other person with marks on them, and she acted.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

I do think it's (a lot) more likely that heard is the liar here

Then no that quote is not "pretty much how you feel about the situation" lol

Lopen a bootlicker confirmed.

HeroicCrono posted...

Lasa you don't need to take things so literally/maximally. Biscuit isn't claiming absolute knowledge of the situation because he wasn't there. It's like how if I say "American voters are going to reject the Democrats at the polls because the Dems are too socialist" I don't mean literally all Americans are going to vote against them. Nor do I mean that all Democrats are socialists.

this seems like a false equivalency to me because there's a difference between making a generalization about a group and making a specific claim about a specific person.

like, imagine if a conversation would go like this:

biscuit: "remember lasa, the guy who hates cheese, according to john? well, it turns out he's dutch. so, john was lying. lasa likes cheese."
me: "what? just because i'm dutch doesn't mean i necessarily like cheese. that's kind of stereotypical and dumb."
you: "stop taking things so literally! biscuit was just saying there's a HIGH CHANCE you like cheese!"

i think it would be pretty absurd to say i'm in the wrong in this scenario.

i really don't think this is a case of me "having bad reading comprehension" or "taking things too literally," i think biscuit just worded his point poorly. when you're discussing a trial, it's especially important to word things precisely and carefully. you, as a lawyer, should know this.

Lopen posted...

Then no that quote is not "pretty much how you feel about the situation" lol

how is it not? "i don't know what's true" and "one option is more likely than the other" aren't mutually exclusive statements.

The latest word now is in new test screenings for Aquaman 2 Heards role has doubled to 20-25mins of screen time.also Aquaman 2 and The Flash were both delayed for what Im assuming are issues related to both Heard and Miller (he was recently accused of grooming a girl who was 12 at the time apparently)

Nothing against Mamoa, but if they push Mera in A2 I hope it is a critical and commercial disaster.

No way in hell Id go pay to see it thats for sure

Why would they double the time? That's the complete opposite direction they should be taking. No one wants to see the movie if she's even in it for a single minute.

And I can't believe they've kept Ezra for this long. WB needs to seriously get it together, stop working with shitty actors and start making good DC movies.

If only. At this point theyd probably lose quite a bit reshooting The Flash and the DC movies already have a pretty shitty reception as it is

CassandraCain posted...

Why would they double the time? That's the complete opposite direction they should be taking. No one wants to see the movie if she's even in it for a single minute.

There's a very loud vocal minority that still attest that Heard is the victim having her life ruined unfortunately. Often somehow proudly boasting about how they didn't watch any of the trial as a badge of honour yet strongly holding onto their own preconceptions as gospel and asserting that the only way to be against Heard to be a horrible person, it's insane.

Oh good so there's a Heard cult now? Just what we needed...

Controversy sells. I am generally against canceling unrelated things, and also this way, she will have more money to pay Johnny Depp what she owes.