Board 8 > Hades topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

100 runs in.

Arms:

Blade - 21 (5)
Bow - 19 (6) - Highest heat: 15
Fists - 17 (5) - Best time: 24:36
Spear - 15 (4)
Shield - 15 (6)
Rail - 13 (4)

Hammer Upgrades:

Blade - Shadow Slash - 6
Bow - Relentless Volley - 6
Spear - Massive Spin - 5
Fists - Rolling Knuckle - 5
Shield - Sudden Rush - 4 & Empowering Flight - 4
Rail - Rocket Bomb - 4

Aspects:

Bow - Chiron - 9 (Still need to clear with Zagreus)
Blade - Poseidon - 6
Shield - Chaos - 6
Fists - Talos - 6
Spear - Achilles - 4 & Hades - 4 (Still need to clear with Guan Yu)
Rail - Hestia - 3

Most Picked Boon per God:

Athena - Divine Dash - 35
Hermes - Greatest Reflex - 22 & Side Hustle - 22
Demeter - Frost Flourish - 20
Zeus - Electric Shot - 19
Aphrodite - Heartbreak Flourish - 17
Poseidon - Poseidon's Aid - 16
Artemis - True Shot - 15 & Pressure Points - 15 & Hunter's Mark - 15
Ares - Slicing Shot - 13
Duo - Stubborn Roots - 12
Dionysus - Drunken Strike - 11

Top 5 Boons with Best Ratio (10 or more uses):

Snow Burst - 80% (8/10)
Pressure Points - 75% (10/15)
Heartbreak Strike - 75% (9/12)
Static Discharge - 71% (10/14)
Support Fire - 64% (9/14)

Most Picked Keepsakes:

Owl Pendant - 29
Frostbitten Horn - 18
Lucky Tooth - 18
Adamant Arrowhead - 17
Cthonic Coin Purse - 16

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Finally saw credits! What an incredibly fun game this has been. I'm not sure how long I'll keep playing, but I definitely want to explore more.

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I made some incredibly poor decisions with boons and hammer upgrades with Deadline on and this game is so fucking cheeky



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getting this setup is hard but man, it fucking stomps shit so hard. i love it so much

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While I've beaten the game once, I've now hit the wall a little bit. I think it might be due to a lot of times picking boons to fill out the various prophesy lists. I can now reliably get to Elysium 90% of the time but the boss there is stomping me. If I do manage to get past them, then Hades is the next wall. I'm hoping I can manage to complete a run without needing the healing over time boon...

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Now that they fixed it Hera bow with Crush Shot is really great, lots of damage!

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Seanchan posted...

While I've beaten the game once, I've now hit the wall a little bit. I think it might be due to a lot of times picking boons to fill out the various prophesy lists. I can now reliably get to Elysium 90% of the time but the boss there is stomping me. If I do manage to get past them, then Hades is the next wall. I'm hoping I can manage to complete a run without needing the healing over time boon...

just keep at it

i went from hating the elysium boss to now getting upset if I use a death defiance on them.

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I have trouble against Theseus sometimes, mainly if he gets in the corner and seems to shield everything. Usually he's not much of a problem though.

Man, I've had Hypnos at max Nectar forever and still haven't gotten his Favor to activate. Some of the triggers seem rougher than they should be.
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i've had the requisites for sisyphus' quest line done for probably 70 runs if not much much more and still have not triggered that one. definitely agree that some of the triggers are iffy, though it does seem to be limited to just a couple. i also have not gotten hypnos' to activate, but everything else hasnt been an issue.

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pxlated posted...

i've had the requisites for sisyphus' quest line done for probably 70 runs if not much much more and still have not triggered that one. definitely agree that some of the triggers are iffy, though it does seem to be limited to just a couple. i also have not gotten hypnos' to activate, but everything else hasnt been an issue.

For Sisyphus, you have to talk to Bouldy. None of the guides I looked at mentioned that for some reason.

I'm wondering if there's some hidden trigger for Hypnos I'm missing too.
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oh...duh

he even told me to do that and i just spaced out. should have paid more attention!

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Same thing happened to me, yeah. Never realized it was possible!
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you also get random buffs from bouldy from giving him nectar

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...huh

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Does ambiguity bonus do anything?
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nope

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lol extreme measures on meg and the hydra were pretty reasonable so i figured theseus and asterius wouldn't be so bad

i was not expecting that at all

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WazzupGenius00 posted...

That fight with Extreme Measures is one of the funniest things in the game

I told yall weeks ago!

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I appreciate how if you run into the minotaur alone with Extreme Measures on he complains about not liking his buff but Theseus is.....Theseus

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How do you deal with that fight with Extreme Measures anyway? I only did it once, but lost two Death Defiances, and it was mostly a pretty good run otherwise. Target Theseus first? Not sure how to fight Asterius without a ranged weapon.
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Theseus is easier to ignore than during the non-EM version IMO (just don't get in front of him) and Asterius is even more of a direct threat than usual, so I definitely always focus him first.

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@MattThorson (of Celeste fame) sure plays a lot of Hades...

https://twitter.com/MattThorson/status/1316951303713599489?s=20

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3rd clear, exactly 25:59:59 with Chiron bow. Zeus on special and Demeter on cast (I love her cast). Plus had 3 dashes with Ares rifts on dash so there was a lot of damage over time. First time clearing without using a single death defiance.

Makes up for my previous run where I had maybe 2 hits left on the final boss with the shield, and then died because I forgot to put my shield up...

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This is the game of the year. The more I play the more I fall in love with it

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I've been doing some Heat 0 runs to get all of those rewards, and landed on this set of stuff:



Rocket Bomb + Triple Bomb is a crazy combo, and works way better with Eris than I was expecting. And Charm works on everyone, including Hades and is especially fun on Theseus and Asterius.

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Managed to get to but lose to Hades again. Had his 2nd phase down to about 1/3 left but took some silly hits.

I think my key is to be more patient. I can't trade blows with Theseus/Minotaur or Hades. I've got to take my shots then back away and regroup. With the Elysium fight, focus on the Minotaur first and use those columns to avoid Theseus' shots.

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The game definitely loses its grip hard after the first clear. Now that I have all the keepsakes, I can pretty much do the same few builds that I know will work, so there's no variety anymore. It feels mindless now but not in a zen way like Necrodancer. Maybe at higher heats it becomes more interesting again. But it sucks to do a whole 30 minute run just to get like 1 minute of plot.

I want to explore some other weapons to freshen things up, but then I'll be giving up my plot progression as I die more. It's a weird balance. Plus the ranged ones are just more fun at first.

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Even though I have builds I like more, I never necessarily aim for anything in particular. Each run I just use my Dark Thirst, swapping keepsakes as necessary to level them up, and take whatever gods and upgrades I get. Maintains the randomness and keeps it more fun.

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The successful escapes necessary to reach the credits arent the only form of plot progression, even a death will advance other things. The game has over 20,000 lines of voiced dialogue, you wont be exhausting those any time soon.

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foolm0r0n posted...

The game definitely loses its grip hard after the first clear. Now that I have all the keepsakes, I can pretty much do the same few builds that I know will work, so there's no variety anymore. It feels mindless now but not in a zen way like Necrodancer. Maybe at higher heats it becomes more interesting again. But it sucks to do a whole 30 minute run just to get like 1 minute of plot.

I want to explore some other weapons to freshen things up, but then I'll be giving up my plot progression as I die more. It's a weird balance. Plus the ranged ones are just more fun at first.

Just try not tunnel visioning on the clears for story and work on other goals. I suggest working on the Prophesies that require you to take specific Boons you haven't done yet which will force you to make different builds if you keep gravitating towards the same ones (especially the Legendary and Duo ones). At low heat you will be able to deal with subpar builds as you improve anyways.

The story does not really gate off many gameplay elements so you aren't missing too much on that front either.

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But then I would have no goals anymore. I don't care about prophecies cuz they just give some gems.

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You unlock all the heat statues?

You can join us in the B8 32 Heat club

I don't think we have anyone who did it with spear or fist yet

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Yeah, I play with whatever weapon has Dark Thirst every run. I think it would've gotten old quick just using the same weapon every time.
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yeah that sounds more like a personal issue than a significant flaw of game design. i'm at least 150 runs in and am still having fun discovering new ways to build, story progression, etc.

i haven't done any high heat runs yet, have been focusing on trying to max out all the aspects i like so i am just doing one level at a time. i think my highest is 6 so far, on two or three of the 6 weapons

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first time trying something other than trippy flare with the board, and it was awesome. maybe even better than the fog builds! i did get very lucky with duo boons early on though. along with mirage shot, which i got like halfway into tartarus, i got the one that increases the level of every pom you find right before the tartarus boss fight.

also, tidal dash is strong as *hell* and handled basically all the small enemies for me the entire run. super nice in the hades fight, just dash away quickly to kill the green skulls and dash back to wherever hades ended up

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Got my first clear 34 runs in. I was routinely getting Hades to 20 percent on his second phase and this time it just felt easier. I made a ton of mistakes and I feel like I could have won using only one death defiance.

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neonreaper posted...

Got my first clear 34 runs in. I was routinely getting Hades to 20 percent on his second phase and this time it just felt easier. I made a ton of mistakes and I feel like I could have won using only one death defiance.

congrats!



i finally got a clear with the guan yu, though this build was a mess and i made many poor choices. aphro on special and the ares call were enough to get me through, though

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FINALLY unlocked the Guan Yu aspect. Now I can start getting the other hidden ones....

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i feel like you gotta max guan yu for it to even be playable.... the fact that it -70%'s all HEALING and not just max life upgrades is so brutal

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I was fine just staying at low heat on it. I would not waste any more blood on that garbage.

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i like the guan yu's moveset a lot more than the rest of the spears, which is why i upgraded it all the way.

i like the normal spears just fine but it feels weak in comparison to the other weapons/guan yu. the spin attack isn't quite right imo. i like it more on the guan yu, though it's still not great.


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pxlated posted...

yeah that sounds more like a personal issue than a significant flaw of game design

Not enough extrinsic motivation is the most classic game design problem of all time. Especially when the first 10 runs have an insane amount of extrinsic motivation and content density. The game is designed to move inch by inch after your first escape. Lots of people complain about that. It's just unbalanced.

I'll keep going until I win with each weapon at least.

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I mean I just don't agree with that at all. After the first clear the game incentivizes you not only to switch weapons for more bounties, but to immediately bump up the heat to refresh the bounties on them. And that gives you the rewards you want - blood, diamonds, and nectar - that will continue to rank up your runs. I am fairly certain I still don't have Heat 0 clears on some weapons even after 15-20 clears, just because it wasn't worth it to go through the entire run for 1 blood compared to continuously bumping up Heat.

So again, the problem is you're valuing the clear itself too highly.

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foolmo has his own perspective when he plays games because of his game dev insight. he's looking at this to see what the carrot is to keep playing. What reason do I have to do another 30 minute run? the reason has to be good enough or it isn't worth it.

but the beauty of Hades is that it's not really using targeted goals to incentivize you. you do another run because it'd be fun. the base gameplay of fighting things feels pretty good, and it's mixed up pretty well with the different boons and weapon combinations to keep each escape attempt feeling fresh. this is enriched by the compelling characters and story telling, to the point that hearing just a little bit from a character adds a lot to the experience you are already having. you get a little more powerful after each run, and you make things a bit more difficult for yourself each time with heat, to the point that neither *really* is making that much of a difference. it's just keeping the gameplay a little different each time so you don't feel too repetitive.

all of this adds together to create a really fun gameplay loop that you just want to play again for no real reason in particular. i don't think most players are subjecting themselves to 30 minute runs that they don't really enjoy just to get another titan blood or clear another heat level or hear some more from mom. those are just the barest of excuses to keep going back in for another run - which is fun! when you stop enjoying the runs is when you stop playing the game.

i wouldn't worry too much about convincing him about why you think the game is so magical. you can just believe yourself that it is.

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I like hades because its fun tbh

Games that have a mix of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are usually the best ones.

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pxlated posted...

i like the guan yu's moveset a lot more than the rest of the spears, which is why i upgraded it all the way.

i like the normal spears just fine but it feels weak in comparison to the other weapons/guan yu. the spin attack isn't quite right imo. i like it more on the guan yu, though it's still not great.

I tried a 0 heat run with Guan Yu since I didn't have any more titan blood to bump up the healing from -70%. I found that spin to be 1000% more useful than the regular spear, plus the healing effects were useful.

I had a pretty nice run going and managed to get all the way to the Theseus fight. Then, as usual, that got me. I was playing cautiously since I only had maybe 55 max health but taking a hit was 10-15 health and I just couldn't find a rhythm to consistently connect on the spin attack without getting hit again. Still felt like I took some bullshit splash damage from Theseus' spear while I was hiding behind a pillar but oh well.

It's been a while since a game bit me hard like this. As soon as I lose I'm immediately compelled to talk to everyone, do some upgrades, and get back out there again. The variety is good enough that the game never feels rote, so it's just as much fun to gain mechanical knowledge and muscle memory as it is to get those tiny new story drips, even as someone who isn't clearing runs every time out.

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masterplum posted...

Games that have a mix of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation are usually the best ones.

Right, I'm just not too crazy about the action combat. Wasn't with Bastion either. That's not the game's fault, but I do think if the story was like 2-3x as fast, I wouldn't complain.

Maybe y'all don't remember the first escape, but it is so intense. You're totally focused on getting as good of a build as possible and playing perfectly, and you know you won't make it, but you try anyway since it could happen if everything aligns. And all of it is to see the surface and find your long lost mother. It's a really stark difference to the "add 1 to number" and "see 3 more lines of cryptic dialogue" of the core loop.

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I felt like Bastion was boring combat-wise thought it's been a long time.

I really like Hades. I think the reload mechanic on the rail gun is the only real obvious downer I've seen so far. Also maybe some of the halberd statues in Elysium.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Right, I'm just not too crazy about the action combat. Wasn't with Bastion either. That's not the game's fault, but I do think if the story was like 2-3x as fast, I wouldn't complain.

Maybe y'all don't remember the first escape, but it is so intense. You're totally focused on getting as good of a build as possible and playing perfectly, and you know you won't make it, but you try anyway since it could happen if everything aligns. And all of it is to see the surface and find your long lost mother. It's a really stark difference to the "add 1 to number" and "see 3 more lines of cryptic dialogue" of the core loop.

I guess for me I still feel that excitement/intensity of "can I get this run to work" since success is not trivial. But I'm still enjoying the combat and the exploration therein. If you're not, it might just be time to move on. It's okay to be satisfied with a game without "chewing all the meat off the bone" as it were.

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dude what

I had no idea foolmo was a game dev

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