Board 8 > Hades topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Depends how you define it

---

Seanchan posted...

It's okay to be satisfied with a game without "chewing all the meat off the bone" as it were.

Yeah and I usually am butttt I do really want more of the story. We'll see how far I get before I start diving into the wikia

---

foolm0r0n posted...

Maybe y'all don't remember the first escape, but it is so intense. You're totally focused on getting as good of a build as possible and playing perfectly, and you know you won't make it, but you try anyway since it could happen if everything aligns

I mean no, this doesn't sound like my experience at all! I cleared while I was still experimenting with new powers and weapons, on the Sword, which I wasn't too comfortable with. I had a subpar build with some defensive buffs. But I was able to make it work because I enjoy the gameplay and I was simply getting better at playing the game. Then I was immediately rewarded by being able to turn up the difficulty and get past the bottleneck on rewards.

But yeah if you don't find the gameplay itself very fun then sure. I will say it is LEAGUES better than Bastio. I revisited that game 3 years ago and the combat was very mediocre. Hades's is a blast.

Also, frankly, if you are really focused on the story I think you are going to be disappointed. It's very enjoyable, it's integrated well into the gameplay cycle, but to again compare to Bastion, it's not on that level.

---

Railgun special targeting keeps moving on me, lost my run at hades because of it

I'm wondering if that's drift

---

In case you're not aware, your launcher can be deflected by walls and pillars. Those two pillars you use to hide from the lasers can be finicky with regards to deflecting your launches. Sometimes they work, sometimes they bounce, depending on where you're standing.

But if you mean it's moving while you're still holding down X to aim then yeah that might be drift. Or you're just being frantic and touching it yourself while still in a dodging mindset. I've done that at times.

---

Launcher targeting is really weird. It auto-targets the nearest enemy, so if you want to hit yourself (useful for various reasons) then you have to anticipate what the nearest enemy is and aim away from them so the target lands back on you. I think it's a really fun quirk actually. Ended up liking the weapon way more than I thought because of the launcher.

---

I just use mouse and keyboard, where the launcher goes to wherever youre pointing the mouse

---

Playing with mouse and keyboard is like a different game from the controller. I started with keyboard, then briefly tried controller because my buddy was using it, and I hated it. It felt like my movements were way more restricted despite expecting the control stick to be more responsive than WASD. Aiming long range attacks is a million times better with a mouse. Went back to keyboard after like 1 run.

---

only controller for me. didnt even want to leave the training room on mouse/keyboard

---

Down to 3 Achievements left: Bad Call (use Greater Call against a god in a Trial), Heat 16, and view the epilogue. Past the lock on all characters other than Hypnos and Artemis (and Demeter), still need to max Eurydice/Achilles/Patroclus (not being able to give them Ambrosia when they're together is lame). Maxed a decent chunk of weapons too. It'd be fun to get all the Achievements, but I'm not sure if there's a good way to get Bad Call on purpose.
---

I love playing games on Switch but sometimes I wish I could get Achievements with it. Ah well.

Anyway, got my 2nd clear today, this time with the Sword. Ended up with a heavy Ares build with some devastating blade rift and call boons. Did the last 40% to Hades 2nd form with one Greater Call, so that was fun!

---

The hidden sword aspect is so good. It's like a whole new weapon! Might be my new favorite

---

foolm0r0n posted...

Not enough extrinsic motivation is the most classic game design problem of all time. Especially when the first 10 runs have an insane amount of extrinsic motivation and content density. The game is designed to move inch by inch after your first escape. Lots of people complain about that. It's just unbalanced.

I'll keep going until I win with each weapon at least.

yeah and i feel like there's plenty of extrinsic motivation. i have plenty of goals still, directly provided by the game.

hence it sounds more like a personal problem! the extrinsic goals the game provides are not good for *you*

---

foolm0r0n posted...

Right, I'm just not too crazy about the action combat. Wasn't with Bastion either. That's not the game's fault, but I do think if the story was like 2-3x as fast, I wouldn't complain.

Maybe y'all don't remember the first escape, but it is so intense. You're totally focused on getting as good of a build as possible and playing perfectly, and you know you won't make it, but you try anyway since it could happen if everything aligns. And all of it is to see the surface and find your long lost mother. It's a really stark difference to the "add 1 to number" and "see 3 more lines of cryptic dialogue" of the core loop.

again, you're even admitting this is a personal issue. not sure why you have trouble with that idea. the game could have all the extrinsic motivation in the world - you dont enjoy the base combat very much, so it wont matter very much. if all you're interested in is the main story and literally nothing else, then yes, sure, after 10 clears the game has little
to offer you. that isn't indicative of some flaw of game design - it's literally impossible to make something that appeals to everyone.

i'm not trying to defend this game as perfect or something, it isn't. you're just being a bit disingenuous.

---

there's more story after ten clears, both in terms of side character arcs and the main narrative

---

pxlated posted...

yeah and i feel like there's plenty of extrinsic motivation. i have plenty of goals still, directly provided by the game.

The game is definitely front loaded with content in the first 10-20 runs. I mean most people probably unlock all of the weapons before even finishing a run and that's the majority of the actual content in the game right there. Once you clear 10 times the side quests (the main extrinsic motivation in my opinion) are painfully slow to complete.

I mean I played for 50 hours and I'd put the game at 9/10 but I played Binding of Isaac for 200+ hours before I finally started getting bored and that was solely because of gameplay and the vast differences between runs. With Hades the run variety is just not high enough for me. Yes the weapons are different but the actual run is basically identical each time.


---

i never disagreed with that.

i'm not sure why a game tapping out at 50 hours is a bad thing. even half that, really. the game costs 25 dollars.

---

WazzupGenius00 posted...

there's more story after ten clears, both in terms of side character arcs and the main narrative

also this. i just got a cool main story thing and i'm near 150 runs in.

---

pxlated posted...

i'm not sure why a game tapping out at 50 hours is a bad thing. even half that, really. the game costs 25 dollars.

Considering I rated the game 9/10 I'm not sure why you think I'm saying that's a bad thing

---

yeah sorry, i'm more addressing foolmo. you just kind of lumped into it.

---

What I always find funny is I dread playing a 50-60 hour long game because of the time sink and have tons of long ass game on my backlog for that reason.

Yet I'll play a rogue-lite like this for that same 50-60 hours without even realizing it.

---

pxlated posted...

i have plenty of goals still, directly provided by the game.

Draw a chart of the goals the game over time relative to their strength. There's sharp drop off.

I get that you have no problem with it personally, but it's possible to criticize it. I also get that gamers don't understand that it's possible to criticize a game that you like. If you want to read about how the game is perfect for 100+ hours I can link you no less than a dozen articles about that. But I want to post something you haven't read.

And yeah I just hit 25 hours in the game. Absolutely no complaints about the quality or the value of the game right now.

pxlated posted...

i'm also not trying to say foolmo's concerns aren't valid, i just don't like the way he frames it. because i'm pedantic and have nothing else going on.

You know how I can go on forever with pedantry

---

foolm0r0n posted...

Draw a chart of the goals the game over time relative to their strength. There's sharp drop off.

I get that you have no problem with it personally, but it's possible to criticize it. I also get that gamers don't understand that it's possible to criticize a game that you like. If you want to read about how the game is perfect for 100+ hours I can link you no less than a dozen articles about that. But I want to post something you haven't read.

And yeah I just hit 25 hours in the game. Absolutely no complaints about the quality or the value of the game right now.

That's a problem with a lot of things in our world now. Everything is black and white; it's "amazing and the best thing ever" or "it sucks, how could you like that". It's truly ridiculous, especially when my reaction to 90% of stuff (whether it's games, movies, food, whatever) is "that was fine, that was ok". You know, that middle of the road opinion.

Got my first clear with the Bow last night. Had a strong Aphrodite/Dionysus build that was just shredding. Still need clears for Spear, Fists, and Gun.

---

In foolmos defense, you definitely can have games that are just too long.

I loved CrossCode for around 50 hours. One of my favorite games ever.... and then the puzzles just kept getting more and more complicated to the point of exhaustion.

i picked it up again for an hour the other day and was reminded why I stopped playing. Puzzles are cool, a puzzle or two that takes 20 minutes in the game or cool, but once you hit 20 15 minute puzzles I start wishing I was just playing a dedicated amazing puzzle game like the witness or talos principles

---

foolm0r0n posted...

Draw a chart of the goals the game over time relative to their strength. There's sharp drop off.

I get that you have no problem with it personally, but it's possible to criticize it. I also get that gamers don't understand that it's possible to criticize a game that you like. If you want to read about how the game is perfect for 100+ hours I can link you no less than a dozen articles about that. But I want to post something you haven't read.

And yeah I just hit 25 hours in the game. Absolutely no complaints about the quality or the value of the game right now.

You know how I can go on forever with pedantry

yeah sorry i don't really have a problem with anything you said, was more a stress reaction than anything. am glad you're still enjoying the game

---

Ive beaten 16 heat with Shield, Bow, Rail, Sword, and Fists.

I tried 32 heat with all of those and I cant even escape Tartarus.

---

Whats your setup?

I know two of us posted 32 heat runs. You could see what pacts we took to see if that helps

---

Sword - Nemesis and Poseidon aspects.
Shield - Zeus and Beowulf aspects.
Bow - Hera aspect.
Fists - Talos aspect.
Rail - Eris aspect.

Keepsakes - I like hunting for gods for the first 2 floors, switch to Hourglass for Elysium, and then switch to Pom, Spearpoint, or Tooth for Styx. Usually I hunt for Artemis/Demeter/Dionysus for Tartarus and Aphrodite/Artemis for Asphodel.

Summon - Skelly or Bouldy. Ive been using Bouldy more but Skelly seems like the smarter choice.

Mirror - All purple except for Duos and Dark Foresight (which arent used anyways because of Routine Inspection heat). Still trying to figure out which defiance is better.

Heat - Generally I try to have avoid Hard Labor, Jury Summons, Heightened Security, and Approval Process. I also have difficulties with 7:00 Tight Deadline so I keep it at 9:00. I stick with 20% Forced Overtime, 40% seems rough.

---

has anyone ever completely shut out thanatos? i've held him to 1 kill before but i'm curious if there's special dialogue for it.

there's gotta be special dialogue for it, honestly

---

I think I got held him to 0 once and he said something like "...well I guess you didn't need my help then"

---

http://puu.sh/GFQwm/42a27003bd.jpg

Probably one of the most braindead builds I've gotten so far. Basically just held down attack and dashed. Barely even used my Cast/Special.
---

i was really sloppy against hades but otherwise this run went really well. guan yu is definitely my favorite spear

---

masterplum posted...

I loved CrossCode for around 50 hours. One of my favorite games ever.... and then the puzzles just kept getting more and more complicated to the point of exhaustion.

I definitely felt that as some point in the game, but even towards the end they kept it really fresh. Really surprised how much I liked that game. It also benefited hugely from early access like Hades did imo.

But yeah, I probably wouldn't ever play it again knowing how long it is. Kinda sad, but tbh I'm not even gonna replay short games again. There's just too many games.

---

Got my 16 heat clear! The claws kick some serious ass.

32 though...that's gonna be an enormous step up in difficulty

---

Made it to Hades' second form on my 8th run and thought "Wow, I'll probably be able to escape on one of my next runs"

And then "Murder...murderer..."

---

Alecto > Tisiphone > Meg in terms of difficulty.
---

Yeah it was actually Alecto who I faced first and died to. But Tisophone also nearly killed me the first time because I struggled in the small room at the end.

---

Also the new Bone Hydra was rough. Don't think I even died to the first one ever.

---

New bone hydra nearly killed one of my last runs, thank goodness for Patroclus.

---

i have more trouble with em hydra than any other boss in the game, except maybe em hades
---

Whoa weird

I've always thought the hydra was by far the easiest boss

---

EM Hydra is easier; the heads are closer together so you can hit multiple at once more often

---

Both Hydras are cake. EM Hydra is easier than the EM version of any of the Furies. (regular Furies are probably easier than regular Hydra though, other than maybe Alecto).
---

at 32 heat EM Hydra is definitely the hardest boss for me

unless of course youre unlucky enough to get tiny vermin then that might take the cake depending on your build

---

I find EM Hydra way tougher than the normal one, mostly because I have a bad habit of not noticing Im standing in lava. I also find it harder to manage the little heads in the new arena, but I imagine Ill get better at that as I get more used to it.

EM Furies are just a straight up more fun fight the the original imo, and not TOO much tougher really

---

For awhile I didn't realize EM1 only meant the Furies were different, and I kept trying to figure out what was different about the other bosses. Like thinking maybe the hydra fight launched more fireballs, or Theseus was faster, or Hades' minions had tougher defenses or something.

---

hydra usually is pretty easy with/without EM for me, but when it goes bad it goes real bad usually.

someone else make a new topic~

---