Board 8 > Anagram Aces Ace Attorney Topic 2: Penny Nichols Edition (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Christ I adore Dahlia. Don't they mention the alt Judge being a different nationality to explain his wackiness? Or did I make that up?

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McMoogle posted...

Don't they mention the alt Judge being a different nationality to explain his wackiness? Or did I make that up?

Yes, they made him Canadian.

"Why, Mr. Edgeworth...I'm not sure I like you wagging your finger at me as though I were some hoser!" might be my favorite line in the series.

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Yeah, I absolutely love what they did to Young Edgeworth's sprite. The way they both redrew his face to make him look younger and gave him mannerisms that are more like von Karma's was brilliant, it comes across so well.

- So Fawles says he was dating Dahlia, when they would have been 21 and 14 at the time Mia is surprised, but the game doesnt present this like its the insane idea that it is. Like, this is insane even in Japan, right?
- Regardless, Valerie shoots him in the right arm and Dahlia jumps into the river with a 2 million-dollar jewel. This is the third character to get shot in the right arm in three games, by the way. Does someone get shot in the arm every game? Because I can get behind that.
- Mia: At first I thought shooting someone for a kidnapping was crossing the line Uh, Mia, jeez, even by bleeding hearts standards
- I actually didnt realize Terry Fawles was supposed to be, like, stupid during the first part of the trial.
- Ah man, Im a sucker for mentor gives the protagonist a piece of advice in the first episode and a prequel reveals that he stole the line from his own mentor, and goddammit, this game just pulled that on me.
- Woah, Dahlias fake backstory includes living in a country that had a civil war where her parents were killed? Thats unusually dramatic.
- You dont look like much of a hiker. But you do look like a digger of sorts. Coldblooded.
- Its strange to say this, but the most absurd thing in the entire series might be Edgeworths claim that Dahlia just happened to be hiking on the mountain she was kidnapped on when she saw her sister, the only person who knew who true identity, being murdered in a completely unrelated incident by her former kidnapper after she was mentioned in a note written by her sister.
- It was about the size of a pint of milk. Literally no one in history has ever used that as a measurement for size.
- Havent you figured out you can make your own rules? If anyones ever given accurate advice in these games, its Diego.
- Haha, Mia calling Terry to the stand in desperation and Dahlia acting pleasant to him, and him still being loyal to her.
- Oh Jesus, I sure as hell didnt see a suicide coming.
- There were no winners, only losers *Goes on to talk about how Dahlia was smiling two lines later*
- We finish with Phoenix reading the details of the case. Does he know yet that Godot is Diego? Is Dahlia going to show up again in 3-5? I dont knowwwwwwwww but probably because the jewels fate was never wrapped up and we never learned why Dahlia poisoned Godot.
- The idea of having to defend a client whos still enamored with the woman who betrayed him because hes incapable of understanding the situation is really interesting, and him ending it with a suicide (even if the idea that he was able to keep that necklace after being arrested is insane) is really, really good. Dahlia is also a really strong villain.
- Normally, I dont like prequels, but this absolutely killed it. It perfectly sets up Edgeworth, Dahlia, Godot, and Mia without feeling the need to explain every single detail (this is a weird analogy, but do you remember how MGS3 perfectly sets up the later games, and then Kojima needlessly filled in the space with more games to explain every unnecessary detail, thus ruining everything?), makes a really compelling story with a sympathetic client that ends tragically but perfectly logically, and doesnt waste time with the investigation parts, which makes everything feel necessary and streamlined. Also, young Edgeworth is fun.
- Im going to go ahead and say its the best case of the game so far. Ill decide on where it places once I do the whole series wrap-up. Its so good I wont even penalize it for Mia displaying zero recognition of Edgeworth in the first game.

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Anagram posted...

- So Fawles says he was dating Dahlia, when they would have been 21 and 14 at the time Mia is surprised, but the game doesnt present this like its the insane idea that it is. Like, this is insane even in Japan, right?

Iiiiiiiii... don't know

At the very least, it's legal

Anagram posted...

- Ah man, Im a sucker for mentor gives the protagonist a piece of advice in the first episode and a prequel reveals that he stole the line from his own mentor, and goddammit, this game just pulled that on me.

Oh yeah this is definitely one of the best parts of the game.

- You dont look like much of a hiker. But you do look like a digger of sorts. Coldblooded.

And damn I forgot how good a line this is. It's even better realizing that it was probably added in localization (unless Japan has a similar idiom for some reason).

And yeah, 3-4 is such a fantastic case. It's short and sweet. It's probably the least silly case in the entire franchise, in a good way - it takes itself seriously and really executes the whole flashback idea incredibly well. One of the things I love about it most is just the general sense of dread you get playing it - you KNOW that Mia didn't win her first case, and you KNOW that Edgeworth has "never lost a case" up to the point you meet him in AA1, so without the game ever even mentioning either of these facts I just immediately got the feeling that this wasn't going to end well, and I don't know if they intentionally used Edgeworth to punctuate that point but it worked perfectly. It's really impressive that they managed to make Edgeworth's appearance here not seem like fanservice and actually seem important, too.

Was there ever a point before this at which Mia could have recognized Edgeworth? It would have had to have been in 1-3 or 2-4, since they never appear together any other time, but I don't think there's any big indication that Mia would have ever been like "oh hey, Edgeworth, I know that guy!"

I admit Phoenix and Grossberg not recognizing each other is a little weirder, but Grossberg is a minor enough character that who cares

Anagram posted...

- So Fawles says he was dating Dahlia, when they would have been 21 and 14 at the time Mia is surprised, but the game doesnt present this like its the insane idea that it is. Like, this is insane even in Japan, right?

Yeahhhhhh this is the one thing that makes me have a pretty hard time sympathizing with Fawles! (Though it's partially explained by the fact that he's... slow and Dahlia is a master manipulator)

Also Diego crushing the coffee mug is one of my favorite scenes in the series. So good.

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Can't wait until Anagram plays DD and sees Phoenix give Apollo and Athena that advice
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Edgeworth showing up as the opponent in 3-4 was a shocking moment to me because I knew he was supposed to be undefeated. Later on in the case when it felt like things were turning around, I always had a sense of dread in the back of my mind because I knew it couldn't end well.
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It somehow never occurred to me that Mia had to lose 3-4 the first time I was playing it. I knew all of the pieces, but they never rose up to the level of consciousness so I was pretty damn surprised when Fawles killed himself!

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Anagram posted...

(even if the idea that he was able to keep that necklace after being arrested is insane)

He didn't. It was buried somewhere nearby before he was arrested, and he went to retrieve it before meeting with "Valerie."

But yeah, 3-4 is a legit top ten case for the series, and I think everyone has mostly hit on why. It's just amazing.

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I really love 3-4.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

It somehow never occurred to me that Mia had to lose 3-4 the first time I was playing it. I knew all of the pieces, but they never rose up to the level of consciousness so I was pretty damn surprised when Fawles killed himself!

Same

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Mewtwo59 posted...

They wanted to change up his sprite a bit, but they ran into memory limitations, so all they could do was give him a new coat.

I'm really surprised that this ran into memory limitations at all

I mean GBA I guess but still

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Yeah, I absolutely love what they did to Young Edgeworth's sprite. The way they both redrew his face to make him look younger and gave him mannerisms that are more like von Karma's was brilliant, it comes across so well.

I like this and I also like how it was never stated. It was there enough to make the connection but it doesn't hit you in the face with it. The best part of that case imo.

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Anagram posted...

I clearly recall Phoenix saying she was short, not just shorter than Matt Engarde. We see her in the picture and she has to be at least a good five inches shorter than him. Admittedly, there's no way to know how tall he is, but I definitely got the impression that she was supposed to be unusually short.

I think she's supposed to be like 5'2".

_SecretSquirrel posted...

I always figured the Fey outfits were designed in universe with the idea that the wearer might be capable of changing into a completely different body type in an instant.

Or maybe thats just too much of a stretch.

Oh yeah, I caught that pun.

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transience posted...

oh 2-3 is garbage and everyone agrees. people mostly like 3-3, though apparently it has some vocal haters? (which is fine)

I must be in the minority then. I find 2-3 to be perfectly acceptable, but dislike 3-3.

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What is the mentor piece of advice you guys are talking about?

3-4 so good.

I think it was my undefeated favorite non-epic case in the series. Until I played 6-3.

The guidebooks say that Adrian is 5'4" and Matt is 6'0".
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LeonhartFour posted...

He didn't. It was buried somewhere nearby before he was arrested, and he went to retrieve it before meeting with "Valerie."

Yeah, but he got arrested right after that!

LordoftheMorons posted...

It somehow never occurred to me that Mia had to lose 3-4 the first time I was playing it. I knew all of the pieces, but they never rose up to the level of consciousness so I was pretty damn surprised when Fawles killed himself!

I knew immediately that it had to end with Edgeworth winning, which I guess is technically incorrect. I wonder how "defendant commits suicide during the case" counts into your win-loss record.

Paratroopa1 posted...

And yeah, 3-4 is such a fantastic case. It's short and sweet. It's probably the least silly case in the entire franchise, in a good way - it takes itself seriously and really executes the whole flashback idea incredibly well.

Yes, that's a good, succinct way to put it.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Was there ever a point before this at which Mia could have recognized Edgeworth? It would have had to have been in 1-3 or 2-4, since they never appear together any other time, but I don't think there's any big indication that Mia would have ever been like "oh hey, Edgeworth, I know that guy!"

I don't know, I feel like Mia would have said something. Or maybe Edgeworth would have said something when he saw her, since it's definitively established that you look like the person you're channeling.


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ZeldaTPLink posted...

What is the mentor piece of advice you guys are talking about?

In 1-1, Mia tells Phoenix a lawyer is someone who smiles no matter how bad it gets. Diego tells her the same thing in 3-4.

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ZeldaTPLink posted...

3-4 so good.

I think it was my undefeated favorite non-epic case in the series. Until I played 6-3.

Hm, I think my favorite non-finale case in the original trilogy would be.... yeah maybe 3-4 or 3-2. Overall though, it's definitely 5-DLC or whatever the abbreviation for that one is

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ZeldaTPLink posted...

I nominated both 5 and 6. Don't know many games from this decade anyway.

But 6 is the better game, and I'm seeing more people mentioning it as a nominee.

I haven't played 6 yet, so if I were to nominate either, it would be 5.

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Anagram posted...

I knew immediately that it had to end with Edgeworth winning, which I guess is technically incorrect. I wonder how "defendant commits suicide during the case" counts into your win-loss record.

In this universe, no verdict can be rendered without a defendant to render it unto. So cases like this one don't count towards the lawyers' records at all.

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IMO best non-finale case in the series is

I2-3. It feels like a finale case in some way though, and I rank it among the best with 1-4, 2-4, and i2-5. I like those 4 over 3-5 myself.

Outside of that, and the other cases nominated here, I liked 5-DLC a good bit as well!

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TsunamiXXVIII posted...

In this universe, no verdict can be rendered without a defendant to render it unto. So cases like this one don't count towards the lawyers' records at all.

Useful to know, thanks!

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ZeldaTPLink posted...

What is the mentor piece of advice you guys are talking about?

A lawyer is someone who smiles, no matter how bad it gets.

I'm pretty sure "The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over" comes back at some point, too.

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Anagram posted...

Or maybe Edgeworth would have said something when he saw her, since it's definitively established that you look like the person you're channeling.

Edgeworth actually does establish some familiarity with Mia during 1-2, when he talks about how he's sure Phoenix has learned from his mentor's "cowardly" tactic of finding meaningless flaws in otherwise perfectly solid testimonies (or something along those lines). AA1 Edgeworth doesn't seem like the type of person to tell Phoenix "Oh yeah we met in court once."

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LeonhartFour posted...

Edgeworth actually does establish some familiarity with Mia during 1-2, when he talks about how he's sure Phoenix has learned from his mentor's "cowardly" tactic of finding meaningless flaws in otherwise perfectly solid testimonies (or something along those lines). AA1 Edgeworth doesn't seem like the type of person to tell Phoenix "Oh yeah we met in court once."

I remember that now, yeah, okay. I guess that works.

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Is 3-5 unusually long?

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its huge. youll need about 10 hours total.

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Maybe a little shorter than 1-5? It's been a while. Leon's the one who would know!

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i think leon clocked 1-5, 2-4, and 3-5 at similar lengths
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Yeah I'd say it's the second-longest case in the OT, longest if you don't count 1-5

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did someone call for my time statistics

I'll only include OT cases here

3-5 - 9:35:46
2-4 - 9:05:21
1-5 - 8:46:43
3-2 - 6:02:56
3-3 - 5:48:31
2-3 - 5:06:33
1-4 - 4:59:52
2-2 - 4:47:40
1-3 - 3:49:35
1-2 - 2:40:40
3-4 - 1:54:15
3-1 - 1:43:09
2-1 - 1:15:57
1-1 - 0:33:35

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Ah I guess you have 3-5 as the longest

I'd guess that most people playing through the series for the first time would get stuck in 1-5 enough to bring it to #1, though!

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Yeah, these are the statistics for someone who knows what they're doing! I imagine for a first timer, 1-5 will clock in as the longest. 3-5 is relatively straightforward by comparison.

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I can't believe 1-4 is shorter than 2-3 and 3-3.

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Underleveled posted...

I can't believe 1-4 is shorter than 2-3 and 3-3.

Try playing 1-4 again sometime. Those individual segments go quick.

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Yeah they really started making the trial days longer and longer as the series went on*, so even though 1-3/4 have the full 3 days, the segments are fairly short. 1-5 feels so long because it uses the full 3 days but has JFA/T+T-length court days, I think. And it's also, y'know, a huge pain a lot of the time.

*This feels like it was then taken to the extreme in Spirit of Justice, because that last trial day was endless... though I don't have the stats to prove it. But I'd be shocked if the last trial day in SoJ wasn't a series record for length.

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Oh great. Well, thatll be a multi day one for sure.

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For what it's worth, the first day is relatively normal in terms of length. It's day 2 that's a monster.

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Episode 5: Bridge to the Turnabout
- I would not trust a magazine named Oh! Cult!
- We need to go to Hazakura Temple, eh? Im sure this isnt the same temple mentioned in 3-4 an hour ago.
- I dont have anything to do with spirit power. The only thing I can channel is a TV.
- At first, Phoenix doesnt want to go to the spirit temple (its one of the lesser OoT temples, if were being honest), but hes persuaded when he sees a picture of Dahlia in it in the newspaper. The game helpfully gives a flashback to her even though weve seen her twice now. I see the game is going to insist on calling her a nun, too. Phoenix directly tells Maya about his suspicions, and the two agree to inform the police and wait for their investigation to take place. After a short vignette of still images of the police raiding the temple and arresting Dahlia, Phoenix tells the player that she was sent back to prison without getting to meet him again, and the game ends with his inner turmoil unresolved.
- Ah, the traditional American Shinto shrine in the snowy mountains right outside of LA.
- Some letters are roughly engraved into the stone. Someone roughly engraved them in perfect Times New Roman font.
- Phoenix meets a new woman with a beehive hairdo and a wizard staff and immediately thinks This lady makes Maya look like a 6.8/10 on the weirdness scale. Dude, this is one of the least weird people youve met. 50% chance she gets killed and the inevitable murder trial is about her.
- I love when translated Japanese things make zero attempt to explain anything Japanese-y. Im in 3-5 and no one has explained what a magatama is the whole series.
- Ah, the traditional American hibachi. Okay, Ill stop now.
- We meet Iris, who is just Dahlia in a nun outfit. She obviously recognizes Phoenix, so hopefully we wont get any trite amnesia stories.
- Ah, the traditional American ancient Japanese scroll with a woman on it drawn in anime style instead of traditional Japanese style. Also, I lied earlier, this is too much fun.
- Larry is also here. I guess if were going to wrap up the series, we need all of the major characters around. That means Edgeworth, Franziska, and possibly Lotta Hart should also appear eventually.
- I mean, if were going under the conceit that theyre nuns, shouldnt the translators have at least put in a line about how you cant have nuns as a type?
- Dilly-dally-shilly-shally has jumped from bad FFVII sequels into Phoenix Wright, I see.
- YES I KNEW IT
- Fat nun tells me to go call the police when we discover beehive hairdo womans body. This is the exact same setup as 2-2, Phoenix never learns anything.
- Phoenix runs across a rickety bridge thats on fire and gets exactly what he deserves.

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Anagram posted...

Larry is also here.

Who?

Oh, you mean Laurice.

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No mention of the Psyche-locks or "I pray for your safety on this dark, cold night"

:(

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Pokalicious posted...

No mention of the Psyche-locks or "I pray for your safety on this dark, cold night"

:(

I was happy about the psyche-locks because it implies no trite amnesia story.


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I love how Bikini has pounds of makeup globbed onto her for the newspaper picture and attempts to strike a sexy pose.

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Hype

3-5 is amazing

(And in fact is the best case)

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