Board 8 > Scarlet Ranks 150 User-Nominated Wrestlers

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wrestling is, at its most basic, a hybridization of sport and storytelling. When presented well, it can illuminate certain truths about the human condition, weaving classical tales of legends and myth with the mindset of the modern man. Wrestling has the opportunity to shine a light on culture and society as well as present characters that resonate with the fans. It's that potential in serialized storytelling that I think is the greatest strength of wrestling.

I reached out to the board over the last week and accrued 150 nominations for a ranking topic that starts today. My personally attitudes towards various styles and eras of wrestling will likely run counterintuitive to some others on the board (I tend to dislike WWE's normal attempts at comedy and vastly prefer the humorous moments in more serious angles), but I'm looking forward to reading responses and thoughts as we take a trek from the early days of wrestling all the way to the present, hopping all over the globe in the process.

I will note that there were some surprising omissions on this list. No one nominated, for example, the Rock, Sting, Roman Reigns... certainly there are some big names for whom I could write pretty extensive opinions. And naturally there were some nominations for which I could say very little. Those are mostly at the top of the list. There are only so many ways to say something sucks.

The next post will contain a list of the nominations, and a little later today, I'll kick off this ranking with the last place spot! I hope many of you join me in this countdown, and feel free to jump in and share your own thoughts.
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AH YAS LET'S GO.

Tag.

Tagaroo
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Forgot to post the nominations! Feel free to make predictions or what-have-you:

Adrian Neville
AJ Lee
AJ Styles
Alex Wright
Andre the Giant
Arn Anderson
Ashley Massaro
Asuka
Awesome Kong
Barry Darsow
Bayley
Becky Lynch
Big Boss Man
Big Show
Billy Graham
Bob Holly
Bobby Heenan
Boogeyman
Booker T
Braun Strowman
Bret Hart
Brian Pillman
Brock Lesnar
Bruiser Brody
Bryan Alvarez
Buff Bagwell
Charlotte Flair
Chase Owens
Chavo Guerrero
Chris Jericho
Chris Kanyon
Chuck Taylor
CM Punk
Daffney
Dan Lambert
Dan Matha
Daniel Bryan
Dave Crist
Dave Meltzer
Dean Malenko
Diamond Dallas Page
Disco Inferno
Dusty Rhodes
Dynamite Kid
Eddie Guerrero
Edge
Enzo Amore
Eric Bischoff
Ethan Carter III
EVIL
Final Solution
Finn Balor
Glacier
Goldust
Great Khali
Hayabusa
Heath Slater
Heidenreich
Hiromu Takahashi
Hirooki Goto
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Hornswoggle
Hulk Hogan
Hurricane
Jackie Gayda
Jacques Rougeau
Jake Roberts
James Ellsworth
Jay White
Jeff Hardy
Jenna Morasca
Jesse Ventura
Jinder Mahal
John Cena
Josh Mathews
Juice Robinson
Jushin Liger
Kairi Sane
Kane
Kazuchika Okada
Kenny Omega
Kevin Nash
Kevin Sullivan
Kota Ibushi
Krissy Vaine
Kurt Angle
KUSHIDA
Lex Luger
Lou Thesz
Maria Kanellis
Mark Henry
Matt Hardy
Matt Sydal
Matt Taven
Mick Foley
Mickie James
Minoru Suzuki
Mister Perfect
Miz
Muhammad Hassan
MVP
Naomichi Marufuji
Nikki Bella
Pentagon
Perry Saturn
Randy Savage
Raven
Rey Mysterio
Rhaka Khan
Ric Flair
Rich Swann
Road Warrior Hawk
Roderick Strong
Ron Simmons
Ronda Rousey
Rosa Mendes
SANADA
Santino Marella
Sasha Banks
Scott Norton
Scott Steiner
Seth Rollins
Shawn Michaels
Shinsuke Nakamura
Shockmaster
Sid Vicious
Steve Austin
Steve Blackman
Taichi
Taylor Wilde
Ted DiBiase
Terry Funk
Terry Gordy
Tetsuya Naito
Timothy Thatcher
Tommaso Ciampa
Tomohiro Ishii
Torrie Wilson
Toru Yano
Triple H
Trish Stratus
Tyler Bate
Ultimo Dragon
Undertaker
Vampiro
Vickie Guerrero
Vladimir Kozlov
WALTER
Will Ospreay
William Regal
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#150 - Jenna Morasca Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4MceD3fHHU" data-time="

"MINUS FIVE STARS!"

In the storied travesty - pardon me - history that is Total Nonstop Action Wrestling, nothing quite sank to the depths of utter awfulness that was embodied in Jenna Morasca's 2009 Victory Road match. So utterly, utterly bad, so completely and totally devoid of anything redeemable, a virtual dearth of any and all things good in the world, a torturous nightmare upon which wrestling in that very moment died a complete and utter death, so disgustingly, brutally awful was this assault on my eyeballs that, truly I tell you, there was no match worse than this.

And Rey Mysterio killed a guy once in the ring. That was better. At least there was some modicum of selling involved.

The match featured Jenna Morasca, a nonwrestler who had little claim to fame in 2009. Six years earlier, Morasca had been a contestant on Survivor. I have no idea as to if she had any success on the show. Most wrestling fans didn't. Because, you know, Survivor is not wrestling. We aren't impressed with reality TV success. Case in point, every winner of Tough Enough. Morasca faced off with Sharmell, notable for being Booker T's wife. What sort of wrestling experience did Sharmell have, you ask? Was she a seasoned in-ring veteran that could hopefully carry this green talent to a serviceable match? Why, of course! Sorry, I left off the word, "Not." Of course not. Sharmell had, at best, a small amount of developmental training under her belt; not that this was an indictment of Sharmell; she existed to be a manager, not a female in-ring talent. But in the mind of one Vince Russo, this was enough to book what he likely considered a high-profile match for a pay-per-view.

Everything about this match was wrong from the get-go. It hearkened back to the very worst of Russo sleaze that would be epitomized in the Attitude Era, with none of the redeeming value of star power to even attempt to salvage the match. It was a technical nightmare. Conjoined twins wrestling each other would have more grace. The match was mainly focused on terrible catfighting between two nonwrestlers in skimpy outfits, and at no point in the match was a real move attempted. In fact, it took outside interference to even get close to an ending. Awesome Kong interfered with some sort-of hamfisted strike on Sharmell, and Jenna Morasca proceeded to proceeded to do a lap dance on Sharmell's face and pin her with her vagina.

And that was Jenna Morasca's foray into wrestling. A Z-List celebrity with no clout trying to hang with a manager for a few minutes. It made Snooki's Mania match look positively professional in comparison.
And THAT match makes Stephen Amell look like a goddamn Hall of Famer (although admittedly, Amell was actually pretty darn impressive). There really is nothing worse.
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Jenna Morasca being dead last. Yay.

Wait shit how did i not nominate the shockmaster
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god everyone there looked bored
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greengravy294 posted...

Wait shit how did i not nominate the shockmaster

You did.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

And THAT match makes Stephen Amell look like a goddamn Hall of Famer (although admittedly, Amell was actually pretty darn impressive). There really is nothing worse.

Holy ****. I just realized no one in that feud is with WWE anymore. I mean, Neville might be, but he still hasn't been seen since Summerslam, and Stardust and King Barrett were gone before the brand split.

At least Derek Sampson still shows up from time to time on Arrow (I think?)
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Mega Mana posted...

At least Derek Sampson still shows up from time to time on Arrow (I think?)

AND Stephen Amell was on ROH and will soon be on the big All In show with Cody! They are actually good friends, thanks to the SSlam feud.
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#149 - Ashley Massaro Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY8BL9-12U8" data-time="

Do you like talentless winners of reality TV shows? Do you think an Avril Lavigne gimmick would translate to wrestling? Then have we got the deal for you. For just $9.99 a month on the WWE Network, you can watch a Divas Search star rocket to the main roster with little to no real training or wrestling experience, only to implode like a dying star and ultimately help to setup the need for a fake Women's Revolution 10 years later! It's $9.99, so what are you waiting for, Maggle?

Ashley Massaro was yet another heavily processed Stepford Wife masquerading as a so-called sports entertainer in an era chock full of heavily processed Stepford Wives masquerading as so-called sports entertainers. Of course, the big difference is that Massaro was supposedly the cream of the crop. Winner of the esteemed Divas Search, a show that produced about as much talent as Holy Foley, Massaro was able to top her fierce competition by participating in such grueling events as "water fighting" and dancing around the less attractive members of the male roster. Truly, this is how NXT determines who has developed enough to move up to the main roster. Coming soon to a Takeover near you - Adam Cole and Aleister Black will compete in a pie-eating contest.

Massaro was bad in the ring. There's not much else to say. When you're bad, you're bad. And she was bad. Bad on the mic, bad doing moves, bad at being charismatic, just bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Her acting made Plan 9 look like Citizen Kane. She could be outwrestled by Droz in 2004.

Eventually she was on Survivor, so maybe it's a symptom of contact with Jeff Probst to be terrible at virtually anything else in life.
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I think I'll stick to watching every video posted in this topic and attempting to comment on them, starting with Morasco.

There is a lot of awful crap and I have no clue how to bitch about this without suddenly turning it into a lecture no one wants to read (plus, I don't need to steal the topic away with an ignorant non-wrestling fan's complaints about a match), so instead... I'll just say what I found funny. "I'm just trying to find out who gets the camera shot there," there was mad Awesome Gorilla chasing after Sharmell's secondary, and then the ref trying to break up the catfight and instead getting rolled over. yay
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Quick, count the number of times her past escapades besides being a Playboy model were mentioned. Like... once since she was on Survivor. Definitely a quality wrestling star here. She started with a cheap shot and then proceeded to be slowed down through lovely moves like "the hair pin" (ya know, when someone grabs your hair and somehow you can't do anything because of it?) and... uh. Yeah. Literally her opponent tried to do her first actual wrestling move and then lost because she can't do anything correctly.

HOW'S MY ASSESSMENT!?
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You are not wrong.
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Ashley Massaro was terrible.

Ashley Massaro had ZERO character development on Survivor: China and ZERO character development in WWE.

The Avril Lavigne aesthetic was hot but, why couldn't she gave a promo and thank Avril Lavigne for inspiring the look for her and other girls to pave the way for the future of the wrestling business?

Was Ashley Massaro's parents ever on WWE programming? No.
Could she belt out different octaves like Avril Lavigne? No.
Was she ever a heel in WWE? No.
Was she seen babysitting little children in WWE? No.

Ashley Massaro was one of only like five girls when I ranked the Survivor Contestants her being in the bottom 100. And that is why she hasn't been relevant in a decade.

Avril Lavigne attended Maryse's baby shower. Yay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLd2XfGFQUg" data-time="

Why couldn't Jenna Morasca or Ashley Massaro bring a pet with them and distract the referee in a match or something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP7L6ZagrK0" data-time="

No write-ups today; I won't be able to do write-ups on days I'm on campus.
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Jenna Morasca actually WON season 6 of Survivor.

Ashley Massaro came in 15th out of 16 in season 15 of Survivor.
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Didn't Massaro go on to be an escort or something along those lines?
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#148 - The Great Khali Nominated by: JONA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8K_B7UWxNI" data-time="

In the annals of history, wrestling is littered with a veritable cornucopia of big men who couldn't go. Whether they were cardio nightmares, incapable of hoofing it to the ring without blowing up, or they were mush-mouthed simpletons lacking the ability to articulate simple words and phrases, most of these men at least provided some form of redeemable value: stature used to really matter. Strike an imposing presence and you rally fans behind a valiant underdog who just won't quit. Or fight for the fans and they will rally behind your indomitable fury.

Of course, what that requires is for there to be a modicum of realism involved in wrestling. Once you've blown kayfabe, you destroy the credibility of size. Size stops mattering. Workrate begins to matter. Brutality begins to matter. The ILLUSION of realism matters. And those categories all demand something Great Khali lacked - skill. In a world that was becoming more and more concerned with show-stealing, Khali gave that show back in spades. Coming into a Smackdown fresh off of its greatest workrate era ever, Khali was incapable of being mobile. Wooden and lacking any moveset, Khali lumbered around like a monster from Shelley, replete with an incomprehensible vocabulary. Painful were the nonsensical promos, although not as painful as the interminable matches. Khali was a relic of the past being pushed as the presence - even his gimmick of being an evil foreign heel was played out by the time he arrived on the scene (so imagine how bad Jinder was in 2018 if Khali was stale in the late 00s).

Khali was, in many ways, what fans hate about Roman Reigns. He was a Vince project and was treated as such. He was given an inordinate amount of TV time and instead of being allowed to succeed or fail on his own merits, he stole time from talent that could have hit it big. Left to their own devices, so many great stars could have used WWE as a platform to propel WWE further, but Vince wants what Vince wants. And Vince thinks it's hilarious to put a mic in front of Khali and laugh at his inability to speak.

Khali brought nothing to the table, and he killed the "big man" concept in WWE for years afterwards (until the arrival of Braun Strowman).
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I am just going to pretend he literally can't speak English and that's his gimmick. So he has no clue what anyone's trying to say and is pretty much the guy that never interacts with anyone in the ring and shrugs anytime he's being yelled at by a ref.
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The Great Khali is great :/
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I'll give Khali credit - I liked him in Get Smart.
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JONALEON1 posted...

The Great Khali is great :/

Agreed, but not as a wrestler.

https://goo.gl/images/NCv4cb
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I have always subscribed to the Lopen school of thought regarding Khali.

He looks different, walks different, talks different, and wrestles different and in the increasingly homogenized WWE we desperately need the Khalis
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I could wrestle different than everyone in WWE too but that doesn't mean I'd have any business being in a ring.
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Different isn't always better. If different results in a decline in quality storytelling, then it is worse. I care first and foremost about the storytelling. When I watch Khali segments, I can't gain any insight into other characters; Khali himself is incapable of cutting a promo, so his character is extremely hampered. Characters that face him are forced to develop IN SPITE of Khali being involved in a shared program. Now, I'm not disagreeing with you on the homogenization of WWE; however, WWE has discovered that there is a right way to book a monster, and that's Strowman. Strowman even gets a heaping helping of development over time.

When I look at the homogenization of WWE, it really doesn't have too much to do with appearance. We've got a couple more monster-types coming along behind Strowman. We got small guys, medium guys, athletic guys, "average" guys... the problem is in everything else. The problem is in poor writing of dialogue that doesn't differentiate between characters except for catchphrases. The problem is in the "WWE style" of match becoming so limited that men's matches, women's matches, tag matches... they all start to look the same. I can feel a difference in styles on Impact. I can feel a difference in styles on New Japan. I feel it less and less in WWE.

From my perspective, stature stopped mattering when kayfabe stopped mattering as much. In a postmodern WWE, Strowman is the only way to get a monster to feel like a monster. You have to go so far beyond the pale, and you can't really pull it off too often. Like, I don't think Lars and Braun and Joe and Keith Lee and WALTER, etc. will all work in the same roster without someone being the victim of fatigue. Of course, you can book characters to play to their strengths but that would require less of the sameness I just decried.

Long story short, being different for difference's sake is not valuable.

That's not to discount your opinion, of course, Eddv. I enjoy these kinds of conversations a lot.
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You're not wrong but youre still not quite right.

At the time - not so much during his world title push which was mostly caused by SOMEONE needing to hold the title as transitional champ and injuries forcing their hands - but in the late Cena era Khali served a good role on the roster. He had a baseline of relevancy based on size alone that helped push various wrestlers and his inability to really even walk made him just FEEL like a Frankensteins Monster
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Like I said about Strowman, stature can still be used. The problem is that the person with stature can't survive on stature alone. When there is a very limited roster, sure, it helps. But there's a reason Diesel didn't draw.
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Let me put it this way - I wouldnt rather have Khali than Strowman.

I might rather have him than Dolph Ziggler if that makes any sense.

Neither is ever going to draw and I think Khali simply brings more to the table than a generic wrestleman like Dolph
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Khali was terrible.

Less talky, more write-ups.

I can understand that. I think Ziggler has a much higher ceiling than Khali however. Ziggler, in my opinion, as a much bigger upside. Ziggler reached a point several times where he could draw. The issue was writing and booking; put Ziggler in ROH and he would be the top guy. Put Ziggler on Smackdown in 2004. Khali could also have been a top guy. In the territory days. And only for a few months in a territory, much like some of the foes of Dusty Rhodes back in the 70s/80s.

I think the ceiling of the individual is the issue. Without true kayfabe, Khali is a movie guy more than a wrestling guy in terms of the value of his stature. Strowman has found a niche as a monster, and I think Khali wouldn't be able to find that niche. Unless WWE pushed an Indian brand filming in New Delhi or something like that.
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khali is absolutely the attraction type of guy that would have thrived in the 70s/80s territory days where stories werent really congruent or there at all (likewise a faction could be simulaneously face or heel depending on the territory they were in which wasnt all that uncommon)

he was awful, but all you really needed back then was a huge guy that could go up against a plucky underdog. no speaking needed.
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also theres a fine line between being vanilla and Neapolitan. like khali was unique because he was presented as an incoherent indian. but i dont see that being entertaining. like sure, he has some strawberry because he sounds like he has sub 100 iq, and some chocolate because he's the only wwe contracted performer that walked like he was on stilts but it doesnt make him any better than generic mcgenericson (curtis axel post repackaging for instance)
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greengravy294 posted...

khali is absolutely the attraction type of guy that would have thrived in the 70s/80s territory days where stories werent really congruent or there at all (likewise a faction could be simulaneously face or heel depending on the territory they were in which wasnt all that uncommon)

he was awful, but all you really needed back then was a huge guy that could go up against a plucky underdog. no speaking needed.

Totally agree with this.
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There are probably few people who dislike Ziggler more than me, but his lack of ability to draw has very little to do with anything about him as a wrestler and almost everything to do with the constant stop-start pushes and horrendous storylines.

If they'd committed to him, he could've been a relatively big star so much as those are possible in today's WWE.
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thats pretty much how i feel about ziggler btw

and im sure he agrees too, hes been mailing it in for a while
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This was another day I was on campus. Tuesdays and Thursdays will generally have no write-ups; Wednesdays will likely only have 1 or 2.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

When I look at the homogenization of WWE, it really doesn't have too much to do with appearance. We've got a couple more monster-types coming along behind Strowman. We got small guys, medium guys, athletic guys, "average" guys... the problem is in everything else. The problem is in poor writing of dialogue that doesn't differentiate between characters except for catchphrases. The problem is in the "WWE style" of match becoming so limited that men's matches, women's matches, tag matches... they all start to look the same. I can feel a difference in styles on Impact. I can feel a difference in styles on New Japan. I feel it less and less in WWE.

Would strongly disagree that it's all the writing

Khali's matches generally felt different too. Even the ones with no build or anything, which clearly the writing has nothing to do with. Khali was so ridiculously limited in the ring that matches had to be structured entirely differently to work in any sort of sense. Also because he moved so slowly his moves had a sense of impact that you just don't see very much-- it also gave him an extremely glaring weakness that his opponent would work around to beat him.

Also Khali's promos were hilarious in their incoherence. Getting him a translator was the beginning of the end for the guy.

Like you'll never ever see a Khali match that's more than like 2 stars. But I'd rather see a 2 star Khali match than a 2 star Ziggler match every time. It's just going to provide a different feel than anything on the show, even if it's not very good. And if you're doing throwaway matches on Raw that's good enough.
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Lopen posted...

And if you're doing throwaway matches on Raw that's good enough.

That's the difference between you and me. I don't think there should be throwaway matches on TV.
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There will always be throwaway matches on TV. Even if they all have some storyline significance of some sort they're not all going to be classics. And they never have been, even in the greatest times of wrestling.
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Throwaway means there is not value whatsoever. Storyline significance isn't throwaway to me. But yes, Khali matches were generally throwaway matches.
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