Board 8 > Scarlet Ranks 150 User-Nominated Wrestlers

(+) Yeah! (+)

scarlet is ranking good > mediocre > bad
you want good > bad > mediocre
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Eddv posted...

I'm just saying you still have Steve Blackman to go and some truly like....guys I cant say anything about besides "he does good wrestleman moves".

Its just a difference in priority.

It's a ranking of wrestlers so dividing them by how well they can wrestle doesn't seem like a very odd choice to me.
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I think you're underrating Glacier's in ring potential a good amount. It's really really hard to be any good when the highest caliber opponent you're facing in a non squash is Mortis, and 90% of your matches are squashes one way or the other.

Nothing against Kanyon but yeah he's not exactly the type of guy to bring out the best of a guy. I'd love to have seen a Glacier vs Bret Hart match that got time.

That's not to say "can be carried" is a ringing endorsement but I just feel like if you had booked Glacier against the same guys and in the same way as Steve Blackman there'd be less of a difference in their in-ring ability.

Also some of his Thunder era promos were at least passable
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Oh god I'm really behind.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5AWX8uapKo" data-time="

I wish I read the newsletter known as Scarletspeed7's post instead of watching this.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAG6udmdbv8" data-time="

You know, he's kind of obvious lower tier in just being a wrestler, and I dunno. I think he's a little respectable but that getup was just terrible.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M85Y1KpqDms" data-time="

DAMN Samoa Joe just was relentless and destroyed him there. Serves him right for being Ex-football OL #432. Next will be Joe Thomas taking your place now that he's retired from the NFL. jk.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9i2ZUdSaBw" data-time="

Ew. I feel like there are a few gimmicks that could be good with this, but I still wouldn't like him with that being just gross. Plus ya know, Sharmell just felt like she was overreacting to everything. It looked like a much darker storyline than her waking up next to WORMS. Still, ew.

I'll do a bit more later so I can catch up.
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Lopen posted...

I'd love to have seen a Glacier vs Bret Hart match that got time.

Glacier vs. Dean Malenko would have been even better. The flavor!
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NFUN posted...

scarlet is ranking good > mediocre > bad
you want good > bad > mediocre

Im just gonna throw this out there - bad wrestlers are better for wrestling than mediocre ones
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Eddv posted...

NFUN posted...

scarlet is ranking good > mediocre > bad
you want good > bad > mediocre

Im just gonna throw this out there - bad wrestlers are better for wrestling than mediocre ones

I generally prefer bad > mediocre as well
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Well, I don't necessarily agree bad wrestlers are better than mediocre ones, but I would rather have a wrestler who is good at something (and most of the bad ones who would receive nominations in a thing like this are good at something otherwise no one would care to nominate them) even if it's an overall inferior package over a wrestler who is generally boring but lacks the glaring flaws.

Like Boogeyman may be the worst wrestler I've ever seen in WWE that had a sustained run but I'll take him every day of the week over one of the Naturals. But it's not because he's worse in of itself-- it's because he's actually good at charisma and his character to the point where people like him in spite of stinking up the ring so bad.
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I don't think anyone nominated completely mediocre wrestlers.

But I disagree that bad wrestlers are better than mediocre ones. In a complete vacuum, that is untrue.

Bad wrestling isn't better for wrestling. It's worse. It's why Jinder emptied arenas. It's factually and statistically untrue.
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Well if a Natural had the world title they'd empty the arena too
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Lopen posted...

Like Boogeyman may be the worst wrestler I've ever seen in WWE that had a sustained run but I'll take him every day of the week over one of the Naturals. But it's not because he's worse in of itself-- it's because he's actually good at charisma and his character to the point where people like him in spite of stinking up the ring so bad.

I would too. But no one nominated guys like that.
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Right that's why I don't necessarily agree. In the context of people nominated for this list, I probably wouldn't. Even the aforementioned Steve Blackman had some entertaining aspects to him I think. I more think the bad ones are underrated than the mediocre ones are overrated-- probably, anyway. I guess we'll see if any total snoozers I missed glancing through the list pop up but yeah.
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Like, for reference, 9 of my top 10 wrestlers were nominated. I have to admit that a lot of this list is cream of the crop.
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#129 - James Ellsworth Nominated by: paulg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrZuRqUYJmw" data-time="

Ellsworth, for a brief moment, captured lightning in a bottle and served as a quite enjoyable part of a title storyline that deserved more attention. AJ Styles and Dean Ambrose had a great little feud in December of 2016, and Ellsworth served as a pawn that somehow found himself pinning the world champion. Given his "aw shucks" personality and easy-to-love catchphrase introduced on RAW against the indomitable Braun Strowman, it all came together in an entertaining holding position feud that has sadly become fairly quickly forgotten.

Ellsworth reminded me of an everyman character in almost every way except that he was just a little too pitiable. So instead of being a guy you could root for, you mostly just felt sympathy for him. Then, when he turned heel, he yanked all of that away and it certainly left incredulity. "Who does this little shit think he is?" I would think to myself. At first, as he transitioned into Carmella's manager, I thought there might be something special there, but WWE quickly proved that they just didn't have much left in the tank when it came to Ellsworth, and he was put out on his ass. It's really too bad, as Carmella certainly lost what little heat she had when Ellsworth disappeared. He had become instant heel venom by the end; it's probably why Becky Lynch was able to earn such a fantastic babyface reaction when she beat him in his last appearance.

But with all of this positivity, you have to wonder why he ranks so low. Ultimately, I think Ellsworth had proven by the end of his run that his character was out of juice. There was just nothing left for him to do. He was starting to become a Santino quality character, and I know that for me personally, nothing was worse than the forced romance between Carmella and Ellsworth - especially since Ellsworth had talked about his wife and kids on Talking Smack before. It kind of ruined the entire concept of the character for me, and I tihnk most things that come into contact with Carmella became worse for it. I don't see a ton of upside in Ellsworth, and soon we'll be entering a territory with a lot of great talent and ability on this list, so here is where we drop off Ellsworth, continuing on to bigger and better things.
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Khali too low.

Also these noms....
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#128 - Nikki Bella Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36dzGw7plU" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNu2QrRVypE" data-time="

Ew. Gross.

In the past, I likely would have ranked Nikki much lower than this, but, and I hesitate to reveal this, I find myself... actually liking her a little bit.

Not too much, mind you. Just a smidgen. But enough to actually rank her higher than most of the really awful nominations on this list.

Sure, she has improved a tiny bit in the ring to the level of mediocrity. Sure, she really can't cut a great promo. Sure, she has nepotistic tendencies that make her run in WWE all but insured. But I think it's her tenacity in the face of adversity that makes me actually respect Nikki ever so slightly. After her neck injury, the level of commitment she put forth to return to the ring suggested to me that wrestling actually matters to her. She really does have a passion for the business, and while she's not at the level of Daniel Bryan's addiction to in-ring action, her desire to be a wrestler and overcome obstacles that normally would see a lesser person give up pursuit of ambition shines a light on Nikki I never saw before. I think over the last couple of years, both Bella Twins have demonstrated that they have a tenacious and positive outlook on life and a desire to remain in the ring long after lesser divas would have hung up the boots.

This doesn't mean that Nikki is a good wrestler. This doesn't mean that the Growing Up Bella segments were anything beyond utter drivel. They were absolutely the worst thing to come out of WWE in years. Hell, this doesn't even mean that I can stand watching the Bella Twins' glorified infomercial segments on Total Divas (I watch that show for Natalya and Nia Jax, and that's it). But hell, I find myself willing to root for Nikki once and a while, and I think that means something.
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And to no one's surprise Awesome Kong and Taylor Wilde are all the (only) girls left in my nominations.

LMFAO.

#127 - Jay White Nominated by: IHateThisCPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVj5BXF5ZUo" data-time="

Eric Bischoff told me that controversy creates cash, so here is a controversial opinion, and I expect the check to be in the mail soon.

I hate Jay White.

Jay White is probably the biggest edgelord in the history of wrestling, earning so much heat from me just by existing despite delivering some pretty good matches in ROH and NJPW (aside from that Tanahashi match). He reminds me of Pete Dunne if Pete Dunne dressed as your rival in Pokemon Gold and Silver. His hair is the stuff nightmares feed upon for inspiration, a mane of unseasonable color and style, replete with terrible side head shaving that makes him look like he was hit by a weed whacker on the left side of his face. He's that eighth grade boy who saw the sophomore burnouts behind the track and field showers and thought "I want to be them when I grow up."

He's the kind of guy who writes a manifesto that includes demands for Joss Whedon shows to be returned to the air. He's the kind of guy that thinks more zippers on his pants will detract attention from his youthful visage. He's the kind of guy that, when he gets carded for buying alcohol, goes onto 9gag to complain about it. He's the kind of guy that watches "only cool" anime and lambasts other people for not adhering to his hardcore tastes in animated Japanese shows. He's the kind of guy that takes photos with his guns and posts them on Instagram, only for his 2 remaining friends to comment that those are airsoft guns that he's just repainted. He's the kind of guy that listens to death metal unironically. He's the kind of guy that removed the ceiling lights in his room and replaced them with extremely dim bulbs. He's the kind of guy that, when he is somehow able to get a woman to return to his "pad", is shocked that she doesn't want to sleep in his partially sloped bed covered in flannel blankets and a pillow which has a case that clearly hasn't been washed since he dyed his hair several months ago. He's the kind of guy that talks a big game about being a lone wolf but will kowtow to his mother's demands to visit his old racist grandmother who proceeds to box his ears whenever he says words like, "crap" and "sucks". He's the guy that demands to be included in an acquaintance's D&D campaign and cries when, after he tries to murder or assault every woman in the first village, is attacked by a handful of farmers and killed when his group won't assist him. He's the kind of guy who legitimately likes the Vong in the Star Wars EU. He's the kind of guy who thinks cosplaying as Dark Link at a renaissance fair is badass. He's the kind of guy that has proudly carried the same pack of cigarettes around for 10 months because he secretly hates smoking but wants to impress his two friends who dropped out of college their sophomore year. He's the kind of guy that uses pens and sharpies to color his shoes and fingernails in an effort to look different.

I say this honestly and unequivocally - fuck Jay White.
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@Bane_Of_Despair I have a new nomination for your ranking
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I unironically supported Nikki Bella as the APWT woman wrestler of the year a few years back when she won it.

I still think she's pretty underrated. She's passable on the mic and has a fun power moveset (I kinda wish she just did the Torture Rack instead of The Rack Attack though for maximum laughs). She's more on the tier of the current set of women wrestlers than the previous generation with AJ Lee/Kaitlyn/Paige/etc or the one before. I think Brie actually holds her back-- because she's actually a lot better than Brie in the ring and on the mic but if you just lump them together in your head as many do (probably happens less now since they've individualized more and more) it drags her down.

I mean she's not one of my favorites or anything, and voting her that year was more a symptom of how bad WWE women's wrestling was then since your #2 was literally AJ Lee (and let's face it other organizations weren't winning that year) but yeah.

Speaking of AJ Lee I imagine she'll be the first one I say is too high since apparently she was nominated.
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I don't cast any aspersions on people who like Nikki, honestly. She and AJ were the only people who did much of anything at all before the Women's Revolution. She's not my cup of tea in terms of most of her in-ring ability, but I think better opponents upped her game significantly when they moved up the Horsewomen. It's too bad AJ didn't get to work them too, since I think she could really have used better competition.

I actually SLIGHTLY prefer Brie to Nikki, but I think it's simply because Brie is depicted on Divas as this great force of support for Daniel Bryan, and she comes off so well there. And, honestly, time has dulled my distaste for her wrestling ability.

Also, I hope voltch comments about my Jay White ranking.
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Oh yeah. Nikki is the worst on Total Divas so if I watched a lot of it like you I would possibly like Brie more than her as well. I tend to just try and forget that show exists unless Natalya or Cameron are involved (probably some of the more current characters aren't bad either but the few episodes I watched were from long ago)
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Lopen posted...

Oh yeah. Nikki is the worst on Total Divas so if I watched a lot of it like you I would possibly like Brie more than her as well. I tend to just try and forget that show exists unless Natalya or Cameron are involved (probably some of the more current characters aren't bad either but the few episodes I watched were from long ago)

Cameron used to be great.

Right now, Natalya is still carrying the show (she had a feud with Lana that was pretty enjoyable). Nia Jax is a huge heel on the show, so you might enjoy her. She fed Alexa Bliss' pet pig bacon in one episode.

Right now, like many seasons, the guys are holding the show up. Jimmy Uso and Rusev really carry a lot of the non-Natalya episodes. It's too bad they dropped Renee Young, since she was pretty much the coolest person ever when she was on the show.

Miz and Maryse are... okay, but they don't do interesting things. I think they could be better if their plotlines didn't suck so much.
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I think a Switchblade edgelord type character has the potential to work, but not when played straight like NJPW is doing it (nor do they ever really do gimmicks that nuanced). Plus Jay White and his baby face cannot sell the character. I do think the "taking Chaos down from the inside" storyline is a good one, though. Pertinent to the bad but interesting vs. mediocre debate, I'd rather him be getting this push than, like, YOSHI-HASHI.
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Hey, YOSHI really impressed me in the Cup this year! Also, he's Kilik.

Okay, I agree I'd rather have Jay White get this push than YOSHI but leave YOSHI alone :(
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Yeah, the Ibushi match was good, I just have a very hard time caring about anything that he does.
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#126 - Shockmaster Nominated by: gravy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fahljd_0xjA" data-time="

Despite being one of the single greatest promo segments in wrestling history, Shockmaster's debut can't do enough to lift the Typhoon and Tugboat aspects of this character out of the gutter.

But, for a brief moment, consider how a poorly placed 2x4 turned a jumbled mess of yelling and screaming into a complete dumbfounded and silent room of some of the most boisterous talkers in the business. Ric Flair... has no words. Sting... has no words. Booker T... has no words. The moment the Shockmaster crashes through the wall, careening to the floor, losing his completely and totally fair use licensed Stormtrooper helmet in the process, everyone - including the voice of the Shockmaster himself, Ole Anderson - is utterly stymied. It's a beautiful moment as several disparate things come together perfectly. The segment had already gone off the rails, and this was physical proof of that. The pyro only served to highlight a complete discrepency between what was SUPPOSED to happen and what DID happen. And the man who could have saved this moment, Ole Anderson, a consummate professional, said absolutely nothing.

And then Sid opened his mouth because only a man like Sid could save a segment like this. "I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE!"

That is the single greatest moment of this entire debacle. Sid is not going to break kayfabe no matter what. Goddammit, Shockmaster was going to be an imposing presence and he was going to pretend like nothing out of the ordinary had happened here. We'll talk more about Sid later, but I love Sid so fucking much in this segment. He is that secret ingredient that puts it over the top, making it so utterly perfect.

As for the Shockmaster himself, despite a great debut that will forever be etched in the annals of wrestling history, there is little to nothing else of merit to mention in regards to his career. By all accounts a gentle, sweet man, the former Tugboat/Typhoon really never reached a level of stardom in WWE, and I couldn't be more nonplussed by his overall career.

But for one brief moment, he was the star of The Room of professional wrestling.
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I might be writing a long rant in defense of Jay White when I get to a computer tonight, fair warning.
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NBIceman posted...

I might be writing a long rant in defense of Jay White when I get to a computer tonight, fair warning.

I knew I would create controversy!
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Good stuff so far dude.
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Thanks!
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I barely know wrestling at all but this is still a super fun read.
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#129 - James Ellsworth Nominated by: paulg

I don't know how much higher he could go considering the who's who still to come, but I think Ellsworth could potentially be higher. Yes, the holding pattern with Carmella took him out of things for pretty much good until the Money in the Bank to exit, but he was one of the craziest and natural characters in the fall and winter of the amazing Smackdown Live.

There are two things I feel like the write-up neglected: Strowman and why he went heel. Strowman had just gotten separated from the Wyatt family in the brand draft, and he was due for a series of 'monster squashes local talent' stuff to get him over. As we saw when they did this for Nia Jax and the Bludgeon Brothers, it's not very memorable or helpful in this day and age. And this was back before Strowman was a monster among men. This was the guy who could barely wrestle, and looked completely utterly awful against the Dudleys a few weeks (months?) before. They were looking to rebuild Strowman as his own man and not a really bad Wyatt pawn. But Strowman's first opponent? It's this no chinned white trash looking guy with no muscles and a really really awful haircut (I liken him to Barnell 'Beak' Bohusk from Grant Morrison's X-Men). Like, this guy is going to just get squashed by the new Vince project and its going to be 'been there, seen that' like so many squash journeys before.

But you know what's crazy? This nothing, pitiable, flabby, Gillberg-looking no-name... thinks he can actually take on the six-foot-something wall of beef mcstroganoff? That he can try for the upset?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB2WIdovlLs" data-time="

"Any man with two hands has a fighting chance."

Like, it's insane. And Braun just wrecks him. Just absolute carnage. In my opinion, this is the first match where Braun looks... like a monster. He was big bearded babyface until he fought Ellsworth; this was the genesis of the Braun we know and love today. James Ellsworth did his job, and he made Braun Strowman shine. And now that he's wrecked, it should be done there. What other jobbers from his squashes or any other squash runs show up ever again, or even this soon? But he comes back. AJ Styles brings him to Smackdown to piss off the Miz. And then he gets a (charity) match with AJ Styles... that special guest referee Dean Ambrose gives Ellsworth (who thankfully was not killed when he botched taking AJ's Styles Clash, good looking out AJ) the win. And then he hits AJ Styles in their rematch with that sweet looking superkick after getting (literally) tossed around like a ragdoll. Ellsworth helped cement Smackdown as a land of opportunity, and added to both Ambrose's mindgames and trolling and AJ Styles' frustration and bruised ego (which would help lead to AJ vs. Shane). The with two or three wins over AJ Styles, he thought he was hot **** and let his fluke, tainted wins get to his head and he became an overconfident, patronizing, full of himself, horrorshow heel, but it worked. Overnight, and the perfect time, he just flipped and the crowd flipped with him and, sadly, he joined with Carmellla and fell away, but yeah, he was amazing for a while.

Also, eating all the superkicks from the Smackdown women's roster before he left was amazing.

Additionally, watching some more Ambrose-Styles clips... James Ellsworth interrupting the WMitB to drop the briefcase to Carmella is absolutely consistent with his character of disrupting big matches. How many times did he cost Ambrose with his poor decision making? Hell, trying to fight Braun in the first place showed where his head was at.
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God Damn Sid man.

I have so much to say about him but I just think it needs said I dont think anyone has ever been better at just doing what needs done in a segment and just not overthinking anything.

Its an incredibly valuable skill for a carny and one way too many current guys completely lack.
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I don't even know who Jay White is.

So I rather have Torrie Wilson higher than him.

Please continue on Scarlet.

OK, Jay White is good now:
https://streamable.com/za0jo
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good ol' sid
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#125 - Hornswoggle Nominated by: Johnbobb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dmw8QNb-HU" data-time="

I can clearly see at this point that some of the nominators watched wrestling for totally different things than me. I really hate to ram my opinions on comedy down all of your throats once again, but I guess at some point I have to be a little redundant for the sake of a write-up.

Hornswoggle was the death knell of several great aspects of WWE over the years; whether he was ruining the excellent storyline about McMahon's mysterious heir or flat-out ending an entire division of wrestling that once commanded respect, Swoggle was branded as an angle killer. And look; his character deserved that. You and I both know that his appearance certainly did not command respect in the ring - especially in a company that prided itself on musculature and stature, Swoggle was clearly meant to serve as an outlet for Vince's overinflated ego and its hatred for anything diminutive. Swoggle also never really got over in a big way, so one has to wonder why the writing staff never was able to convince Mr. McMahon that the jokes they were making at the expense of Swoggle were just not funny. Sure, there were some that COULD have been, but too often it became wrapped up in Swoggle's appearance and a personality that was so stereotyped and unfunny. Remember that Swoggle's character was based on the little people used in wrestling by Vince in the 80s; he was a mischievous impish childlike character. He was the stand-in for a kid, almost. And to me, that was the definition of a stereotype.

That's why, when angles would go to die, they would do it at the feet of Hornswoggle. The Anonymous GM, a storyline that could have had huge payoff, ended up without a surprise Kevin Nash or a payoff for Michael Cole. Instead, we were cursed with Hornswoggle and nothing else. We lost out on KENNEDY being the son of Kennedy McMahon, instead getting Hornswoggle. DX completely lost their edge by trying to cater to Vince with Hornswoggle (although, to be fair, they had already completely lost their edge the moment Shawn Michaels left the first go-round).

Of course, what could Swoggle have done to create good storylines? Swoggle might have served as a manager, crafty and intelligent, with an appearance that belied the underlying resourcefulness beneath. Perhaps he could have been a character fans would fondly remember. And the reason I say that is simple: there is a mode in wrestling comedy where you take something broad and uninteresting and give it just a little bite. And I hesitate to say this, but TNA got it. There was a way to play Hornswoggle as somewhat legitimate in a comedic role, and they figured out how that worked. I ask you all to watch the following segments and tell me that this isn't the 2017 feud of the year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoMn5Josp40" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NxsGLwG5zU" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtfZbGSXjnY" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmjC9IDzX0Q" data-time="

This is going to sound insane, but that is how you do comedy. Spud becomes this unhinged maniac, turning into a rage-fueled monster. He brutalizes Swoggle and simultaneously takes the heat and garners the ridicule in this feud. Swoggle, meanwhile, is able to come off as just "one of the guys" in a feud with Spud in total meltdown mode. The absurdity of losing consistently to Swoggle breaks Spud and leads to the most melodramatic feud in recent years. It's fantastic.
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Really, Hornswoggle should just be Tyrion Lannister.

Everyone should be Tyrion Lannister.
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#124 - Kevin Sullivan Nominated by: Eddv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBf_KoG4wiQ" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clGOhqIQe2Q" data-time="

The phrase "Heavy lies the head that wears the crowd" is quite fitting when it comes to the story of Kevin Sullivan, a wrestler-turned-booker who was either blessed or cursed (depending on your point of view) with the job of wrangling the personalities working in WCW during its burgeoning years of 1995-1997. After that point, he was put on a committee before being phased out completely. Sullivan, of course, is best known for sounding and looking like Granny Goodness and Ed Asner's love child under the name of The Taskmaster in the most infamous storyline of Hulk Hogan's career. The Taskmaster was a spurned ally of Hogan who, betrayed by Hogan being a total douchebag (and why anyone would be surprised by that clearly never actually watched Hulk Hogan), formed the DUNGEON OF DOOM in order to end Hogan once and for all.

This would lead to some of the most horrendously stupid matches and story arcs in Hogan's career, including the match featuring Final Solution that we talked about earlier in this ranking. But I don't want to spend too much time talking about the Dungeon right now.

Instead, I want to talk about a guy who didn't get nominated on this list - Chris Benoit. Now, regardless of what you thought of Chris Benoit before or after he died, it was clear in the mid-90s that Benoit and Sullivan were not exactly the best of friends. After all, Benoit started having an affair with Kevin Sullivan's wife while Benoit was rising through the ranks in the Four Horsemen. Not long after, Nancy Sullivan (also known as "Woman" in her WCW manager role) left Kevin Sullivan and would eventually marry Benoit. Now, people vary on what happened during this topsy-turvy era of WCW, but it's clear that Sullivan took the opportunity to book Benoit against himself in a pretty brutal 50/50 feud that HE HAD BENOIT WIN. Sullivan actually let Benoit go over in a feud that was literally based on the fact that Benoit stole his wife.

It's all very Lita-Edge-Matt.

Sullivan was by most accounts a team player who just wanted to occasionally got his time in the spotlight. Usually, however, he was a very generous booker and would almost always let other people go over on him in big matches. But there seems to be a lot of shady innuendo out there in regards to Sullivan's personality and motives, and because WCW was the equivalent of a catty girl's locker room in high school, it's hard to say whether many of the rumors are true.

As for his wrestling, it was pretty awful. He was a short, stumpy man without much wrestling acumen. What worked with Sullivan was that he could take a beating and keep going. His matches (aside from those with Hoganites) were usually extremely rough. But so often his feuds suffered due to his opponents, his own prowess (or age), or just a terrible storyline that detracted from everything around him.

Now, there is a strange and baseless theory that Sullivan murdered Nancy Benoit years after their divorce. I highly, highly doubt the validity of this story. Sullivan clearly had put all of that behind him, choosing to work out his aggression with Benoit himself a decade earlier in the ring like men. And hell, he even found closure and gave Chris Benoit the opportunity for success. Still, this entire story has always left me with an uncomfortable feeling, so any good Sullivan has done has always been met with feeling of hesitance on my part. And in a ranking like this, a gut feeling of trepidation such as that can land you pretty low on this list.
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#123 - Steve Blackman Nominated by: GOGZero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSqFGgQkch0" data-time="

Steve Blackman's role in WWE was not to be like The Rock or Steve Austin, because he wasn't much of a talker. However, his likability came from the fact that he had a martial arts prowess. In fact, he was probably the best Hardcore champion thanks to his unique background. There was an air of legitimacy to Blackman that didn't exist elsewhere in WWE, allowing him to fit in on the midcard with a variety of opponents. Anyone from Ken Shamrock to Kane would get the same match out of him, but it was a unique match. Earlier in these rankings, I talked about how WCW would show 8 different matches every week and nowadays on RAW we essentially watch the same match 8 times each episode. Blackman was the type of guy that would allow the Attitude Era RAWs to run different matches. His style was wholly separate from everyone else out there.

In terms of charisma, however, he was a Lance Storm level talker. This isn't to say that you have to be a great talker to be a great wrestler. However, when you position yourself as a star in an era of the best talkers in the business, you naturally are going to come across as leaden and uninteresting in comparison. Steve Blackman was, in fact, not The Rock. It got to a point, eventually, where Blackman would be put into comedic backstage segments simply to highlight how stoic he was. And that... kind of worked. Of course, once Lance Storm started doing the same thing (and Lance actually has an amazing dry wit so he knew how to play with the straight man role much better), Blackman's prototype was rendered virtually obsolete.

Still, as a Hardcore Championship contender and winner, Blackman excelled. He was Glacier done right.

Also, never forget that he came out to Jungle Japes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j3dOhfTyYU" data-time="
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Steve nobody Blackman and Horns nobody Woggle over Torrie Wilson? :(

Actually thought Swoggle was good when he was just Finlay's rabid attack leprechaun. That was the only time he was used properly-- while I didn't see the TNA stuff you were referring to I would be surprised if I thought that was anything more than "less bad than WWE"

Sullivan meanwhile would be a strong contender for my lowest entry on the list. I guess as a booker you could argue he was less selfish than most wrestler bookers but when you compare where he should have been on the card to where he was I'm not so sure about that. Didn't he book himself over Pillman which caused Pillman to walk out? Really the guy was just really cringey and bad in all regards of wrestling, and had a horribly miscast gimmick to make things worse.

I do like Blackman though. His hardcore title run was fun. He couldn't talk but in that era he didn't need to because we had more than enough talking. Also got a huge kick out of his one match on Brawl for All, where he totally gamed the system and just hit like 20 takedowns on his opponent (wanna say it was Marc Mero?) to utterly dominate in points. He would've absolutely won it had he not been injured-- and I dare say he'd have had a shot to actually beat Butterbean too had they gone that way since I doubt Bean's takedown defense is very good (granted, they wouldn't have-- Brawl for All would've been very different if Blackman was in it)
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Lopen posted...

Didn't he book himself over Pillman which caused Pillman to walk out?

That was all completely a work by Pillman, but Pillman used the work to play WCW. Sullivan was in on it to some extent. This has been confirmed by friends of Pillman (such as Meltzer) as well as Sullivan.

I'm going to disagree with you on Sullivan somewhat. He didn't necessarily WANT to be the Taskmaster, it's just that no one else was even around who was willing to play that role. And his Benoit feud was quite good. He was cutting excellent promos there. And in the meantime, he's also booking the start of the cruiserweights as well as pushing some new stars (which stops when he gets taken out of the solo booking role). He deserves some credit for getting WCW to where it was in 97.

As a wrestler, bad, sure. But as a booker, he was pretty savvy especially when you consider the egos he had to manage.
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#122 - Barry Darsow Nominated by: Eddv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r77868CA-DE" data-time="

Darsow seems like a nice individual and a team player, but he never really had the opportunity to shine. Thrown into a major feud much too early into his green rookie career, Darsow carried himself reasonably well as Krusher Khruschev. Eventually he found his way to WWF, where he became one-half of the fondly remembered tag team Demolition before changing gimmicks and becoming the infamous Repo Man. After that, he would spend time as the awful Blacktop Bully character before sinking into a string of terrible gimmick characters and obscurity.

I imagine that for most people, Demolition serves as the most pertinent example of Darsow's work, and as Smash (although it would have been much more relevant if he had been Crush, just saying) he DID find a significant amount success. However, a lot of that really should be attributed to both his managers and his oft-overlooked veteran partner, Bill Eadie (or Ax). Eadie is one of those genuinely underrated workers who had experienced instincts that allowed him to really work a crowd well. As Masked Superstar, he was truly a great star; when he became Demolition Ax, he served as a mentor to Darsow's Smash and the pair went on to great success. The wrestling was not particularly strong, but they worked the crowd well with their gimmick. Eventually they would set a record (recently broken by the new Day) as longest tag team champions before the team would suffer from bad creative directions, killing the team with a new member. It was clear that once Ax was out of the picture, Darsow couldn't carry a rookie (named Crush, of course), and the team lost all of its heat.

I imagine Eddv wants me to speak on the subject of Repo Man, and I will. Repo was a bad gimmick, to be sure. The "job as a gimmick" characters were too goofy for the era into which they were born. However, Repo Man was certainly a well-portrayed character. Still a below average wrestler, Darsow sank himself into the character, capturing a voice and a walking mannerism that were instantly recognizable. Fans certainly enjoyed booing or laughing at his heelish antics, and Darsow has noted many times that he would pitch unique storylines that WWF and Vince just weren't interested in. This included the concept of Darsow stealing a title belt from Randy Savage (at one point Savage was going to beat Yokozuna for the world title), a story that would result in a long run of comedic segments backstage where the Repo Man would consistently escape.

The most interesting idea Darsow pitched promoted the idea of Repo Man as a vigilante, a Zorro-like character that would rob the rich to give to the poor. Repo would feud with IRS and DiBiase (a nice circle back around from where the character started as a lackey of the Million Dollar Man), pushing Repo as more of a superhero.

Unfortunately, Vince ditched Darsow in 1993, and we got the infamous King of the Road match featuring Darsow against Dustin Rhodes in WCW. And from there it was history.

For my part of the ranking, if I wasn't ranking these individuals on the totality of my experience with them in wrestling, Darsow would rank higher. Repo Man is a great POTENTIAL idea, and Darsow was a wonderful human being. But his wrestling his mediocre and his promo work was generally average. Still, I can't help but like the guy as a human being, so here he ranks.
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See i have fond memories of growing up with mid 90s WCW , so to me the sentences Kevin Sullivan is a bad wrestler and The King of the Road match was bad dont even really register to me as true statements.

I honestly love a good gimmicked wrestler - Yano Toru and all of that and I just feel like Darsow was one of the best gimmick guys that never broke out of the midcard. Obviously Kane/Undertaker are the cream of the crop there but still.
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King of the Road is objectively bad, but it was entertaining. Whereas, for example, Braun Strowman vs. Brock Lesnar was objectively not bad, but very dull. To be fair, I didn't say the match was bad. It's stupid and silly, but I kind of like it.

Blacktop Bully, the character, was awful.
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I honestly dont even really remember that gimmick
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Eddv posted...

I honestly dont even really remember that gimmick

There's probably a reason for that XD
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I do want to talk about Ax for a second because it still strikes me as the dumbest thing ever that he was forced to retire over what turned out to be an allergy to shellfish.
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