Board 8 > Scarlet Ranks 150 User-Nominated Wrestlers

(+) Yeah! (+)

To me, a 2 star match is a 2 star match. All 2 star matches are more or less equally enjoyable (or in this case, unenjoyable). Khali doesn't get points from me because he found different ways to have a below average match.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Throwaway means there is not value whatsoever. Storyline significance isn't throwaway to me. But yes, Khali matches were generally throwaway matches.

Its a 3 hour show.

Theyre all throwaway.
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Well I would argue a bunch of 2* matches all wrestled in the same style aren't going to feel like 2* matches by the time you've seen the third one on the card.

Khali match won't burn you out on the normal style.
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Eddv posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Throwaway means there is not value whatsoever. Storyline significance isn't throwaway to me. But yes, Khali matches were generally throwaway matches.

Its a 3 hour show.

Theyre all throwaway.

Those two statements are both true, both bad, but also unrelated.
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Consider that in the era of Hogan they had like...6-8 canon shows a year.

And they still basically do, they just try to trick you into thinking its not.
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Eddv posted...

Consider that in the era of Hogan they had like...6-8 canon shows a year.

And they still basically do, they just try to trick you into thinking its not.

There's a reason I always say that Nitro was a great show. At its height, even the most ridiculous stuff mattered.
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Even at its height you had squashes involving Mike Enos and Road Block.

Not saying Khali wasn't overpushed as the world champion, but dude absolutely had some value on the show. And honestly if you're going to give someone a throwaway reign as a transitional champion, solidifying the credibility of a monster is one of the best ways to do so.
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Lopen posted...

Even at its height you had squashes involving Mike Enos and Road Block.

Yeah, but the guys fighting Road Block were top guys being pushed against monsters or were monsters, so that was the use of Road Block. And remember that Mike Enos was used most often in tag matches because they needed to create credibility on their tag division. Like, it was crash television, but often, Tenay or Schiavone or Heenan would provide reasoning for the matches, "This is a tune-up match," or "A winner here will solidify their case for a #1 contendership match."

I just have a different definition of throwaway. It's in the presentation.

Lopen posted...

And honestly if you're going to give someone a throwaway reign as a transitional champion, solidifying the credibility of a monster is one of the best ways to do so.

I agree normally, but Khali had no credibility to me because more than anyone else in WWE, he looked fake. Truly. Khali is the guy more than anyone else who ruined kayfabe for me. Bad gimmicks are one thing, but this was a true lack of fundamentals. And in an era where you have one promotion on top of the world and can sign anyone on Earth, you shouldn't be pushing someone who will never, ever improve.

Also, don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion. I can see the merit in it. I would agree to a certain extent, but there is a level of quality you have to achieve before variety matters.
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That seems like a really meta way to think of "credibility"

I mean I see a huge hulking guy chop another guy who is half the size in the head and pin him, I buy it.

I guess the thinking is "well he shouldn't have been hit by the chop cause it was slow and clumsy" but usually the guy facing Khali would do a good enough job selling that I could believe it.

I'm not even sure who I'd call the worst offender for damaging credibility, but Khali ain't even on the radar for me. It's probably someone on the other end like Spike Dudley.
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I don't believe that Khali can't be scouted for his extremely clumsy chops. I don't believe that the chop would ever land. And I could forgive Khali if literally anything else Khali did was entertaining to me, but Kiss Cam shit is just not my jam.
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#147 - Krissy Vaine Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrnzI8q62t4" data-time="

One of those "cup of coffee" talents (and I use that word quite liberally) that disgraced our screens in WWE for about 12 seconds, Krissy Vaine was just the victim of the machine doing what it does best. I remember reading that Vaine showed up to Smackdown in costume and was told absolutely nothing about her appearance. Eventually some diva took pity on her and went to ask the road agents what the hell Vaine was supposed to do on the show. No one really said a word to her backstage for an entire day before someone worked up the nerve to find out just what in the hell this mysterious person was doing lurking in their workplace.

I have very little to say about Vaine herself. She was a descendant of the progenitor of terrible WWE women - Sable. Ever since Sable encroached upon our screens, it became clearly apparent that women had a ceiling. To get over, you had to adhere to a very processed, artificial standard of beauty and your only value was in meeting said standard. Vaine had little to no real in-ring or mic ability, and yet she was somehow able to make it to the main roster (even if it was only for a nominal period) based on looks. Of course, the so-called creators of the women's revolution would deny this is the case any longer in WWE, but I would argue that the remnants are still there. There is a level of charisma, atheleticism, wrestling acumen and microphone that hasn't been seen in the women's division before; but I still think that beauty is a huge factor in the effort put into a character. Alexa Bliss is an example of someone who receives a great deal of attention from creative and I would argue that it's primarily due to her attractiveness. She has improved greatly on the mic over time (and she has a certain innate understanding of her character), but there's really not much to the character. There's still a disconnect between how women are written and how women actually are in WWE.
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I have literally no idea who that is, and based on the presence of vickie I was presumably watching at the time
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Queen Krissy Vaine appearing on Smackdown twice in 2007 (the other in the link Scarlet provided)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2S1OXBmFbg" data-time="

And that was literally it for the rest of her career.

I'M WINNING. YAY.

I watched that clip and I still don't know who it is.

MVP Matt Hardy feud was awesome though so I know I watched SD at that time.
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#146 - The Final Solution Nominated by: Anagram

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJsGVYOksv4" data-time="

Before he stumbled around like a drunken ent in Batman & Robin, Jeep Swenson was a "PoH" or "Pal of Hogan." Part of an elite group of so-called stars that could claim membership in the geriatric version of the Kliq, Jeep existed to make Roman look strong. Sorry, that meant to read "make Hogan look strong." Freudian typo. Swenson lacked any true claim to fame aside from his stature and a few appearances in films and stuntwork, but that was enough for Hogan - Swenson was bulky, brutish and could take orders.

So it was that in March of 1996, we were gifted the most utterly heinous match in WCW history, without question - the Doomsday Cage match. You see, Hulk Hogan had been traipsing across the WCW landscape over the previous few months. In his mind, he had been a real team player. He'd actually allowed three people to beat him (all with significant interference to prevent anyone from looking strong), and he felt it only right that they return the favor to the massive self-absorbed wannabe messiah of pro wrestling that was Hogan's ego. So why not rip the Band-Aid off? Why not make everyone job to him in one match?

So, in an 8-on-2 match, Hogan and Randy Savage took on the Dungeon of Doom, the Four Horsemen and two part-time Z-List actors in a triple decker cage. I don't even want to explain this atrocity. Just watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEWQSh3YAFk" data-time="

Be aware that they used the best workers on the top of the cage, and were forced to send them back in at the end because the guys on the bottom were completely blown up from STANDING THERE DOING NOTHING. That's how much of a non-wrestler Jeep Swenson was.

On a side note, Brian Pillman was supposed to be in this match, but he was replaced by Barbarian. Pillman, who was red-hot at the time, had caught the eye of Hogan. The Hulkster's narcissism naturally knew no bounds. Who was this young up-and-comer that somehow was getting heat? Perhaps I could siphon off this heat like a booking vampire, thought Hogan. Perhaps I could job him in one of the myriad of cages at Uncensored! Pillman grew wise to this and was able to convince WCW management that he was recovering from a routine throat surgery (he had suffered from polyps since childhood), and escaped the match.

He then left WCW in the most amazing case of a company getting worked by kayfabe ever, but we'll save that story for a later write-up.
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So i need to apologize for Anagrams nominees - he only really knows about wrestling from me and war sharing the nost ridiculous stories we can think of

And all else aside The Final Solution IS ridiculous.
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No need to apologize. I definitely have something to say at least!
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I thought the triple cage thing was the COOLEST EVER when I was a kid

I don't think I have to this day actually seen the match, but the TV build sure grabbed me
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Tom Bombadil posted...

I thought the triple cage thing was the COOLEST EVER when I was a kid

I don't think I have to this day actually seen the match, but the TV build sure grabbed me

Yeah as a kid this was the hypest damn thing.

THE ALLIANCE TO END HULKAMANIA is just so good.
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Eddv posted...

So i need to apologize for Anagrams nominees - he only really knows about wrestling from me and war sharing the nost ridiculous stories we can think of

That's not true, I also know about the Japanese wrestler who kept his Korean heritage secret because he was afraid people wouldn't like him.
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I'm late but I also like Khali
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#145 - Rhaka Khan Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ-ykOTwGPs" data-time="

This is one of those write-ups that is utterly worthless to read because I have no real insight on this character. Rhaka Khan was essentially an ancillary midcard character. Unfortunately, Khan enhanced nothing. A below average wrestler even by early 21st century women's standards, Khan was utterly forgettable in most aspects and disappeared relatively quickly from TV.

There are tons of undercarders who do absolutely nothing in wrestling and disappear within a year or two. Khan is one of them. Hell, most of WWE's women's division in the 2000s would qualify under that descriptor. But this one was nominated for reasons passing human understanding, so here we are. A pointless nomination that does nothing to further this list. Did you know that the Rock was not nominated for this list? Owen Hart could have been nominated here instead of Rhaka Khan. Austin Aries could have taken this spot. I could have ranked Fit Finlay instead of Rhaka Khan. We all would have been better served reading a Bruiser Brody write-up. Scott Hall was still available when Rhaka Khan was nominated.

My point is, don't make bad nominations. We all are the poorer for it.
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I ended up nominating a few "mainstream" nominations that I wouldn't normally have nominated going off my normal silly nominations just because I felt there were a lot of snubs on the list. Given another 10 I could've cleaned up this city.
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#144 - Dave Crist Nominated by: JONA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJUDdK_wnME" data-time="

Fuck Dave Crist. In a tag team of Jannettys, Dave Crist somehow proves himself so much worse than any Jannetty you can conjure in your mind. He's the Crush of Demolition. He's the Droz of LoD. He's the Dave Crist of the Crist Brothers.

It doesn't help that the Crists were paired with LAX, a team that is always entertaining and utterly ridiculous. Konnan is the definition of "so bad he's good." Consistently repeating the same 20-year-old catchphrases ad nauseum, he somehow creates captivating television with his supposedly criminal organization that features four to five people playing dominoes constantly. Occasionally they will say things like, "Diamante, get control of the hoes!" or "BRRRRAAAPPP!" These statements somehow only reinforce the majesty of this excellent and yet also terrible gimmick.

LAX is all about the pomp and circumstance surrounding street level gangs somehow deciding that wrestling will be a moneymaker. The Crist Brothers have come along (accompanied by the ever irritaing Sami Callihan) pretending to be what is essentially the biggest gang in Ohio. Ohio, you know, the capitol of gang violence. Except, Dave Crist has this weak, high-pitched Matt Sydal voice and accompanies this with a Corey Graves foppish pompadour. His entrance pose, replete with a mask taken off of the face of the gargoyles in Hunchback of Notre Dame, consists primarily of Crist pretending to fall asleep. This is extremely appropriate as his flabby gut slows his workrate to a crawl and makes anyone within viewing distance immeasurably sleepy thanks to the boredom that oozes from Crist's skin like molasses.

Now, Crist is a member of the aforementioned Crist Brothers. Jake and Dave, the Brothers Crist. Whether these brothers are Uso style brothers or Edge and Christian style brothers, I have no idea. But I find it hard to believe that Jake Crist, a fiery and well-dressed example of a decent lowcard guy, shares the same DNA as a lumpy dopey reject like Dave Crist. Dave is the wrestling equivalent of Gabe on The Office. So unremarkable and yet at the same time unrelentingly awful that in no way can you stand to see him on television. He's a blight to the wrestling world with his mediocre awfulness.
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Lopen posted...

I ended up nominating a few "mainstream" nominations that I wouldn't normally have nominated going off my normal silly nominations just because I felt there were a lot of snubs on the list. Given another 10 I could've cleaned up this city.

You are doing god's work.
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I think my first 6 nominations were just NJPW's current main eventers.
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but I'd rather see you talk about random midcarders
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I'm just surprised Khan was ranked higher than Mendes and Gayda.

But good topic please continue.

#143 - Rosa Mendes Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Xou6O2Szg" data-time="

Now, this is a list based on honesty. I can't present to you a ranking that isn't grounded in my own wrestling experience, and thus I must confess to you a truly heinous secret - I watch Total Divas.

I do. I know. I'll let it sink in for a moment.

The reason for this harsh and uncomfortable revelation should be apparent to anyone who has seen Rosa Mendes on TD - she is atrocious. She's easily a bottom 5 character on that show, and that show is comprised of so many bottom 5-quality characters that it makes the cast of Glee look like the cast of Westworld. And yet Rosa Mendes stands out as the character with the most X-Pac heat on the show. While Paige's love life was always an enjoyable trainwreck on the show, and aside from Alicia Fox dating an elderly man at one point (and let's not start on Eva Marie's supposed husband), Rosa's relationship took the very worst of all of the others and wrapped it into a nice, little Christmas fruitcake package. All of the worst with none of the things you love! Rosa lacked any charisma and simply waddled around crying about her pregnancy and impending nuptials, as if she had earned any goodwill to bore us with her domesticity.

This is wrestling. You have to 16 championships before we care about whether your significant other will marry you. In the meantime, the dull drone of the monotonous pregnancy lurched forward with all of the plot momentum of Mad Men and none of the quality storytelling.

Oh, and she "wrestled" too. But if you can name one memorable moment in her years-long career in WWE, I will be impressed.
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Scarlet is just destroying every woman I nominated.

Everything I remember about Rosa's career

- Debuted as Zack Ryder's girlfriend
- Had a gimmick for like a month where she came to the ring jumping rope to "train" as an excuse to jiggle on PG Television
- Fandango's dancer for a while

And I'm not even sure all of those were Rosa.
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#142 - Jackie Gayda Nominated by: Preston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K9gIOP3H_Q" data-time="

Known around the net for years as That Jackie Gayda Match, the link above should highlight all of the reasons in which Gayda was one of the worst wrestlers in WWE. It's funny, really, when you think about how Moolah has received so much criticism over the last week thanks to WWE's recent push of her legacy. Wrestlers like Gayda are exactly the results of Moolah's decades-long stranglehold on women's wrestling. The quality suffered in every way imaginable; when a woman would reach a level of talent that would rival Moolah's popularity, that person was quashed under her boot thanks to her disturbing machinations. And the only other woman who broke the mold suffered being the victim of an unwanted WWF downsizing and made an extremely poor choice in order to get a job at a rival promotion.

Sure, you had new talents at the end of the Attitude Era coming into their own, but the business was trying to revitalize the women's division with attractiveness rather than talent, and so Jackie Gayda became a wrestler on national television. I feel just as bad for her as I do others on this list, but that doesn't help in the ranking process. What does help, however, is a decent track record as a valet. And when I say, "decent," I mean "barely acceptable but it didn't particularly offend, so it lands her slightly above other stuff which is worse."

I could go on but... actually, I couldn't go on. There's nothing to say, really. This is a dull nomination. 4/10 mediocre at best.
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I remember Jackie Gayda took her top off one time on Raw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zQwCISPJHs" data-time="

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrnzI8q62t4" data-time="

I swear, the highlight of that video was Matt Hardy being just like "what the fuck are you doing???"

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJsGVYOksv4" data-time="

I got nothing, so as someone that doesn't know wrestling, can you explain to me what they meant by constantly just saying "uncensored" ?

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ-ykOTwGPs" data-time="

She honestly felt like someone nominated Chandra Janway in a Nascar ranking. Just someone who's there to look pretty (might I say she actually is pretty attractive, but still). Well, and sideline turn the match in her ally's favor.
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I'll get to more later, sorry that I'm behind.
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WickIebee posted...

I'll get to more later, sorry that I'm behind.

Fair reactions so far.
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Well thats what you get for accepting the nominees of Preston
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Hey I accept all participants! Except one, but he wasn't going to participate.
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The only nominations I have left

Torrie Wilson
Nikki Bella
Awesome Kong
Taylor Wide

150. Jenna Morasca
149. Ashley Massaro
147. Krissy Vaine
145. Rhaka Khan
143. Rosa Mendes
142. Jackie Gayda

Damn, it certainly wasn't intentional to knock out your noms specifically on my part.
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Well when those are your nominations you don't exactly have to make it intentional

I would be surprised if any of the rest came up for at least a little while as the rest are at least somewhat decent at some facet of professional wrestling
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scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJUDdK_wnME" data-time="

Racist and got what he deserved. Next.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Xou6O2Szg" data-time="

Oh, Total Divas stuff.

Lopen posted...

- Fandango's dancer for a while

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH.

But back to League, so nah.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K9gIOP3H_Q" data-time="

Man, I care more about how much of a loser Nowinski was in that than Gayda, for her it was just like "yeah, she sucks... whatever." And then back to Nowinski literally running away from the match. What a joke. Granted, I did say I'd make comments on the video, not the people you're doing write-ups of, so I guess it works.
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#141 - Matt Taven Nominated by: JONA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zHz1H8xBU" data-time="

Matt Taven is the Andy Dick of pro wrestling. Utterly without talent and a black hole of charisma, Taven almost single-handedly turned me against watching Ring of Honor. His presence alone was enough to frighten me away from the show. If you ever have the displeasure of listening to Taven on commentary, you will understand exactly what I mean. Something about his every line digs into my eardrums and burrows like a an insect into my brain, wracking me with intense pain. His dialogue seems to come straight out of the worst Brian Bendis comics, and I think he's never had a single original insight. He would be a perfect commentary partner for Percy Watson.

He's not even a bad wrestler. I won't go so far as to say he's great or anything, but Taven certainly can be serviceable in the ring. But having to listen to Matt Taven cut a promo makes his in-ring work a slightly enjoyable byproduct of the modern form of torture. I wish I could have found one of the myriad of examples in which Taven sucks as hard as he does, but unfortunately there aren't a lot of non-Bullet Club clips from recent years of ROH on Youtube. There's a difference between getting good heel heat and just being frustratingly awful. Taven easily falls into the latter category. Every week during his most recent injury, Ring of Honor would trick me by starting with the standard commentary team before pulling the rug out from under me and sending Taven down to the table. Almost as if to say, "Oh, we got you again, Scarlet!"

Ring of Honor is a company of shoot heels, and Taven is the method by which they pursue their evil deeds.
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#140 - Jinder Mahal Nominated by: charon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxg4Aw_719c" data-time="

I have to say here and now, unequivocally, that oftentimes I think that Board 8 has a contingent users who enjoy memetic comedy in wrestling so much that they will actually go out of their way to antagonize others who wish wrestling had more heft and weight to it. A good case in point is the run of Jinder Mahal over the last year, the story of a man who was clearly a jobber and didn't have the talent to sustain a longterm push.

When I look at Jinder's title run, I see quite clearly how much of a failure he was by its ending. AJ Styles faced Jinder after his surprising title victory at Clash of Champions during a rematch, and while many thought that Jinder would be on his way to a second title reign, Aj Styles stunned Jinder by tapping him out to the Calf Crusher. Why this is so notable is simple: Men dont tap out in WWE, at least not often, and when they do, its nearly always a marker of a shift in storyline. Someone backstage, likely but not necessarily Vince McMahon, sees giving up to a submission move as emasculating. This is why women tap all the timeNatalya tapped to Charlottes Figure Eight earlier in the eveningwith no more import attached to it than to any other finishing move.

Rusev, on Ride Along, recently said that the Accolade doesn't "work on top guys." It was kind of a shocking statement to make public, but clearly true - if you tap out, you are clearly hitting your head on a ceiling beneath the real stars. And Jinder just never came across as a real star.

There are a lot of reasons to put a title on someone: it brings prestige to the belt, prestige to the holder, or is a necessity to a storyline (ie: a transitional champion). With Jinder, none of these things were true. Randy Orton, who was coming off of one of the worst title feuds in recent memory with Bray Wyatt, certainly needed a marquee opponent to put some luster back on the title. Instead, he was surprisingly placed with Jinder Mahal. Many thought this was just an opportunity to give Jinder a brief showcase in preparation for a marketing push in India by WWE, but instead, Orton was stunned in a victory that was truly undeserved. The title had by no fault of its own gone from a promising new champion in Bray Wyatt to an oversaturated worker with in Randy Orton by way of a terrible feud and now had passed to a glorified jobber who had a massive losing streak going into his title reign. The title had been dragged through the mud and now it had lost prestige.

Jinder had been positioned with not one but TWO heel managers in order to mask some of his terrible workrate. I personally thought that the Singh Brothers were a very solid unit, capable of doing great mic work. They were J&J Security mixed with Maria Kanellis in TNA; they fulfilled their role admirably. But too often, Jinder's mediocrity just overpowered them. Gimmicked matches and poor chemistry with all opponents just layered the problems more and more; this came to a head when WWE resurrected the often lambasted Punjabi Prison match, a match in which the competitors are trapped inside of two cages, so layered in cage that the viewers can essentially see none of the match. And somehow, that match ended in interference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdA2ZE5rtno" data-time="

Jinder was clearly a ploy for a market that had no interest in Jinder. His Orton feud was long and tiresome, and when it ended, the two continued to have match after match. Last week, they sparred yet AGAIN in a US Title showcase. But the crowd, aside from the sort of nihilistic fans of wrestling that like to smirk and feel superior because they back a contrary choice, are clearly bored with Jinder. His promo work as a foreign heel lacks the panache or menace of the old school heels of the 80s, and he feels forced and fake on the mic. His body is acne-ridden and disgusting, and on the mat he is unremarkable.
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I don't even know who Matt Taven is.

Matt Sydal? Matt Hardy? Matt Morgan? Matt (aka Zack Ryder)?

"There's to many damn Matts!" - Preston Condra

"There's too many damn lions!" - Vince McMahon

I don't think you'd know him unless you watched ROH. Not sure he's ever been elsewhere.
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#139 - Heidenreich Nominated by: Gravy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEK80zqUXWQ" data-time="

Other than the ability to make a kid cry at a show while playing a heel, and despite having the great Paul Heyman as his manager and legendary tag team wrestler Road Warrior Animal by his side in one title run, Heidenreich seemed to be a wasted push.

Heidenreich was poor in the ring, and that all too often is a death knell for me. I have to clarify that I don't need a worker to be a cruiserweight workhorse to be enjoyable. As we climb this list, you'll see that it is ultimately believability that matters to me more than anything else. When a worker can do all sorts of little things, providing details that enhance the character beyond the cartoon, THAT'S when I get excited as a fan. But Heidenreich lacked the fundamentals to suck me in. And in an era where there is no kayfabe, I think there is a huge premium on making a fan suspend disbelief.

Aside from his poor in-ring performance, Heidenreich's character was one dimensional. He reminded me of a bad version of Sid. And if you know anything about Sid, that is quite an indictment. Sid is not exactly the most talented on the mic. Heidenreich lacked even the car crash-style of awful that made Sid kind of enjoyable. He felt written, and badly written at that. Whereas Sid was organically ridiculous, Heidenreich was the product of a room of writers thinking THIS was the best way to write a big man. Compare him to even an average big man like Lars Sullivan and he comes up wanting. Considering he was in WWE during a time when numerous other tall generic powerhouses were in the company, he didn't stand out on his own. Not even the Undertaker could carry him into a memorable match, and he only really got noticed when he stood beside Road Warrior Animal and said "I'm the other guy".

Aside from one infamous backstage segment, Heidenreich is ultimately a footnote in wrestling history. At least he's better than Nathan Jones.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zHz1H8xBU" data-time="

I had to pause the video because I was laughing way too hard at "you paid to see me" camera moves to show that Matt Taven is talking to a chair that is not uniform with the row.

Yes, you, the booing chair. I don't actually care what fans think but I'm still salty about being boo'd and being told I suck because you, misaligned chair... paid to see me. Then I unpaused and couldn't take him seriously anymore.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxg4Aw_719c" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdA2ZE5rtno" data-time="

Okay, first video had the case of being amusing towards the second half... Had he not brought a laugh track crew to try to tell us that he's funny like most shitty American comedy shows. Only the worst shows need to tell you when it's being funny. Second video I feel sorry for Orton there, bleeding arm and still needs to be interfered with.

scarletspeed7 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEK80zqUXWQ" data-time="

This was so hilariously bad. Though I feel like anything I say about it is just saying what anyone can grasp from it. So better if it's left unsaid.
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WickIebee posted...

Second video I feel sorry for Orton there, bleeding arm and still needs to be interfered with.

Jinder never really could beat Orton without interference. Orton is too big a star and it was too unbelievable.
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