Board 8 > Bayonetta voice actress Hellena Taylor calls for a boycott of Bayonetta 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

Super bizarre situation.

If they'd just lowballed Taylor and gotten some no-name, that'd make sense, but getting Hale who likely costs more and still having folks like Yuri Lowenthal who also doesn't come super cheap in the cast makes me think there's still more to this story.

Just strange all over.

I am still torn on which side I am on

But I just want to say Hideki Kamiya sounds like a ass in his Twitter
"BEWARE MY RULES" what the fuck dude step down from your high horse
Also his pinned tweet calling people "insects" and asking people only to post in Japanese
Come on now

Nanis23 posted...

But I just want to say Hideki Kamiya sounds like a ass in his Twitter

That's been his shtick for years. I'll admit I found it funny at first because I wanted to cheer the "passionate game auteur with the nfg attitude." But after 10-15 years of acting like a petulant asshole... he just comes across like a petulant asshole.

As for this specific story, I'm not excusing Platinum or Nintendo at all, but I read another take that commented on the rarity of actual firing/dismissal in Japanese culture, and that a company is more likely to lowball a contractor/employee if they want to be rid of them. Maybe this was their tactic to severe ties with the original VA, because Jennifer Hale is almost certainly one of the biggest names in the business and wouldn't have accepted a lowball offer herself.

It still looks like an exceptionally douchey and unprofessional movie, but I doubt the companies' underlying intent was about money.

Yeah Kamiya's had that schtick since...around Bayo 2 times I think? He'd get bombarded with English questions about bringing the game to other consoles and eventually started curating his twitter feed due to that, which in turn became a meme and a bit that he leaned into.

I don't really care about the bit, it's whatever, but doing it in this situation is not a great look.

YoBlazer posted...

That's been his shtick for years. I'll admit I found it funny at first because I wanted to cheer the "passionate game auteur with the nfg attitude." But after 10-15 years of acting like a petulant asshole... he just is a petulant asshole.

Fixed that for you.

https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1581337769858961408

Sounds kinda like how David hayter got pushed out of mgs

I need more info to evaluate this

Is it typical for VAs to get a fraction of the project's earnings in addition to an hourly rate? (My impression is no, but I'm not positive)? How many hours of recording was the role? What is a typical hourly rate for this type of role?

The overall amount isn't particularly meaningful without knowing all of that.

The amount they wanted to pay her was 66 copies worth of the game. It's probably going to sell millions. That seems like plenty to know.

MrSmartGuy posted...

The amount they wanted to pay her was 66 copies worth of the game. It's probably going to sell millions. That seems like plenty to know.

Not really? It's not at all clear to me that this is a grossly atypical wage for this type of role. If it's normal for VAs to just get an hourly wage with no fraction of the game's sales (which, again, I think is the case; please correct me if I'm wrong) then that's a grievance with the industry rather than a reason to boycott a particular game.

That's not to say that it couldn't have been a horrible offer regardless, but again I can't evaluate that without knowing how many hours of recording it was and what a typical rate would be for this type of role.

The current comparison going around is that streamers get more for reading off one add for Raid: Shadow Legends (around $4.2k) than she would have been paid for this game.

LordoftheMorons posted...

That's not to say that it couldn't have been a horrible offer regardless, but again I can't evaluate that without knowing how many hours of recording it was and what a typical rate would be for this type of role.

What's some numbers you're thinking of that could be reasonable for $4k for the lead of the game? $10/hr for 400hrs? $40/hr for 100hrs? There's no reasonable option.

That said, she is definitely not the only low balled VA in the industry.

MrSmartGuy posted...

The amount they wanted to pay her was 66 copies worth of the game. It's probably going to sell millions. That seems like plenty to know.

Maan I don't know. I admit I don't know how much a VA is supposed to get for a high-profile game. And it seems like neither is anyone in this topic, otherwise we would have got some examples
I assume it's protected under NDA or something.

The thing is, if it's really based on the game popularity, some VAs must be exteremly rich.
Like, Hellena said that it only took her 16 hours to record Bayonetta 1. And if 3 is anything like that, getting $250 per hour doesn't sound too bad!
On the other hand, companies are willing to spend MILLIONS for celeberaties to show up in their ad campaign even if it's just for a few seconds or just to use their face, so that's also a thing

We really need some examples to compare with. The more the better so we can avoid cherry picking.
Like, I am interested to know how much 2B voice actress got. Nier Automata also sold millions and I assume the amount of lines is kinda similar

UshiromiyaEva posted...

The current comparison going around is that streamers get more for reading off one add for Raid: Shadow Legends (around $4.2k) than she would have been paid for this game.

yup and the NFL gets several million dollars to run a 30-second ad during the Super Bowl. That's how business works

foolm0r0n posted...

What's some numbers you're thinking of that could be reasonable for $4k for the lead of the game? $10/hr for 400hrs? $40/hr for 100hrs? There's no reasonable option.

That said, she is definitely not the only low balled VA in the industry.

From what I was reading typical wages would be several hundred an hour; I don't know how hourly VA wages vary between side characters/main characters or how much they'd depend on the VA's past work. I also have no idea about how many hours of recording it would be. From howlongtobeat it looks like Bayonetta 1 and 2 were 10-15 hour games. Like if the situation was something like ten hours of recording for $400/hr and a bigger name VA typically worked for $500/hr it certainly wouldn't strike me as a boycott situation.

MZero posted...

yup and the NFL gets several million dollars to run a 30-second ad during the Super Bowl. That's how business works

Your continued attitude of 'businesses can legally do it, so that makes it okay' is weird.

LordoftheMorons posted...

From what I was reading typical wages would be several hundred an hour; I don't know how hourly VA wages vary between side characters/main characters or how much they'd depend on the VA's past work. I also have no idea about how many hours of recording it would be. From howlongtobeat it looks like Bayonetta 1 and 2 were 10-15 hour games. Like if the situation was something like ten hours of recording for $400/hr and a bigger name VA typically worked for $500/hr it certainly wouldn't strike me as a boycott situation.

VAs are chronically underpaid across the industry, so regardless of what the average is, I wouldn't use it as a baseline. $4000 for the third game in a popular series is extremely low, especially considering it comes with no royalties, which is how VAs can stay afloat when their income is inconsistent. People should be rewarded for helping contribute to something that ends up doing well and resonating with the public - instead we get devs and VA getting paid pennies while the publisher pockets everything.

KamikazePotato posted...

VAs are chronically underpaid across the industry, so regardless of what the average is, I wouldn't use it as a baseline. $4000 for the third game in a popular series is extremely low, especially considering it comes with no royalties, which is how VAs can stay afloat when their income is inconsistent. People should be rewarded for helping contribute to something that ends up doing well and resonating with the public - instead we get devs and VA getting paid pennies while the publisher pockets everything.

Well, the reason I want to use it as a baseline is that if it's just a standard case of underpayment then that's an industry-wide complaint, having nothing to do with Bayonetta specifically and therefore not justifying something like a boycott (though the standard itself may very well be reason for union action such as a strike).

If meaningful change is going to happen inthe industry, it has to start somewhere. You'll never get people to boycott everything, but making a statement with one game is theoretically possible.

For the record I don't think the boycott is morally obligated, will be followed through by a lot of the people currently saying they will, or will make Nintendo/Platinum/other devs change much. But the potential for small change is better than nothing. VAs have been getting screwed over for decades.

As I understand it the industry sucks but that offer sucks extra, so

God damn some of you in this topic are fuckin obtuse huh

Is 4000$ really that low? I mean she makes money from other games right? The game is a short platformer so she isn't recording much dialog?

I mean, some people I know would love to get 4000$ . If its only 16 hours of recording 250$ is still way more an hour than most people I know make. My last job I made 9 dollars an hour. If I was offered 4000$ for 16 hours of work I would easily take it.

banananor posted...

Sounds kinda like how David hayter got pushed out of mgs

Hayter being pushed out for Kiefer was much more of a star power grab attempt. While Hale is a bigger name in VA, I don't think they're under any delusions that switching to her is going to sell any more copies.

Alanna82 posted...

Is 4000$ really that low? I mean she makes money from other games right? The game is a short platformer so she isn't recording much dialog?

I mean, some people I know would love to get 4000$ . If its only 16 hours of recording 250$ is still way more an hour than most people I know make. My last job I made 9 dollars an hour. If I was offered 4000$ for 16 hours of work I would easily take it.

Do you think a 3 hour movie takes 3 hours to make?

https://twitter.com/AnEternalEnigma/status/1581484726967160832

The entire issue isn't that it may or may not have been a typical wage for this business, it's that if it is, that's unacceptable. It's very much the same vein of (prior to NIL) college athletes getting a scholarship and nothing else while schools profit millions off of them. The system itself is broken.

Now, if you want to criticize her because it took it happening to her for her to speak out? Sure, I guess. I personally didn't really like her calling out Hale for taking the job. But that doesn't really make her wrong here that it's just straight up wrong to pay someone 4k who is so instrumental in making a game sell.

He's done it.

THE ULTIMATE BLOCK

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/1/4/AAeolZAADyMO.png

Alanna82 posted...

My last job I made 9 dollars an hour.

Then you were massively underpaid.

kevwaffles posted...

Hayter being pushed out for Kiefer was much more of a star power grab attempt. While Hale is a bigger name in VA, I don't think they're under any delusions that switching to her is going to sell any more copies.

Good point.

Emeraldegg posted...

it's just straight up wrong to pay someone 4k who is so instrumental in making a game sell.

the underlying question is whether vg voice actors are more like movie actors who draw an audience, or more like a costume designer who helps build a portion of a character. Or even the person that writes the foreign language subtitles

I guess with this call for a boycott, we'll see how significant the VA's pull is

UshiromiyaEva posted...

He's done it.

THE ULTIMATE BLOCK

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/1/4/AAeolZAADyMO.png

Well he has 30 days to reactivate the account so unless it's dead for a month, this is only temporary

Alanna82 posted...

Is 4000$ really that low? I mean she makes money from other games right? The game is a short platformer so she isn't recording much dialog?

I mean, some people I know would love to get 4000$ . If its only 16 hours of recording 250$ is still way more an hour than most people I know make. My last job I made 9 dollars an hour. If I was offered 4000$ for 16 hours of work I would easily take it.

So why haven't you become a VA then...?

Alanna82 posted...

Is 4000$ really that low? I mean she makes money from other games right? The game is a short platformer so she isn't recording much dialog?

I mean, some people I know would love to get 4000$ . If its only 16 hours of recording 250$ is still way more an hour than most people I know make. My last job I made 9 dollars an hour. If I was offered 4000$ for 16 hours of work I would easily take it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/1/1/AAQnM_AADVhz.jpg

kevwaffles posted...

Do you think a 3 hour movie takes 3 hours to make?

Do you think there is 16 hours worth of voice acting in Bayonetta

Lopen posted...

Do you think there is 16 hours worth of voice acting in Bayonetta

Do you think everything is ad libbed or read sight unseen in a single take?

This is why you should just Pirate all AAA games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spL4CLfMOEY

colliding posted...

also she had me until she referred to Jesus Christ as our greatest moral teacher in part 4

Its kind of an irony that someone whose job was to voice a character that slaughtered angels would say that.

kevwaffles posted...

Do you think everything is ad libbed or read sight unseen in a single take?

I'm saying the 16 hour estimate is taking that in

There is probably 1 hour worth of dialogue from Bayonetta's mouth in Bayonetta games, absolute tops. Probably more like 30 minutes.

Like I'm not saying 4000 isn't an underpay but there isn't a huge amount of actual dialogue in the games from Bayonetta. The cutscenes themselves aren't heavy dialogue most of the time and what's there is split among the characters.

16 hours is likely the proper amount of time accounting for retakes and all that stuff.

kamiya was blocking people who were asking in Japanese about the Bayonetta situation yesterday, so good riddance

Emeraldegg posted...

I personally didn't really like her calling out Hale for taking the job.

I don't think she called her out for taking the job, but just asked her not to go to cons and such advertising herself as the voice of Bayonetta. It came out in an accusatory tone because she was already in a heightened emotional state.

She said "She has no right to call herself the voice of bayonetta" iirc. Can't get more accusatory than that.

Emeraldegg posted...

She said "She has no right to call herself the voice of bayonetta" iirc. Can't get more accusatory than that.

Her whole paragraph was...

They now have... a new girl voicing her over. And I love actors. I wish her all the joy in the world. I wish her all the jobs, but she has no right to say she is the voice of Bayonetta. I created that voice. She has no right to sign merchandise as Bayonetta. Any more than I have the right to sign as Eva Green, even though I was her parrot on video game The Golden Compass. That portrayal is her's and her's alone.
They'll probably try and do a spin-off with Jeanne. Don't buy that either.

Lopen posted...

I'm saying the 16 hour estimate is taking that in

There is probably 1 hour worth of dialogue from Bayonetta's mouth in Bayonetta games, absolute tops. Probably more like 30 minutes.

Travel time, work being intermittent, probably not getting benefits etc. 4000 for a stable job is a lot different then 4000 for someone who has to interview and travel for basically every job. Even if it was 10 hours of work it's probably at least a week out of her time if not 2. Which isn't bad if it was something that was consistently gotten which I doubt. If thats all she's getting for a big title like this imagine for small games.

PrinceOfKoopas posted...

Her whole paragraph was...

I maintain my stance. I don't care how she rationalizes it, imo there is no logical way for her to say that Hale has no right to do something without coming off as resentful of her, which I don't think is right. I totally get that she's emotional, and this is like the only thing in her statement I take issue with really. She still deserves a crapton more than 4 grand. But she could have made her point without bringing hale into it.

https://twitter.com/Skipp93653/status/1581595593134071808

no such thing as bad publicity

I mean let's be real that was probably happening anyway.

Well now I can't un-cancel my preorder, so... guess I'm sticking to my guns.

Confused by people saying they can't uncancel their preorder.

Says pretty clearly cancelations are up until the 21st, and canceling on Switch is effortless. Literally took me less than 2 minutes after making this topic.

He's back on Twitter, btw.