Board 8 > Bayonetta voice actress Hellena Taylor calls for a boycott of Bayonetta 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/hellenataylor/status/1581289084718227456?t=-ucjE-8HBIelrO8jWGptwA&s=19

They really tried to fuck her over, Jesus.

Will be canceling mine.

TBH I'll cancel mine for now just to try to make a point. It's painful for me to. I'm so hyped for this game.

the fact that they eventually recast bayo as Jennifer Hale makes me wonder if there's more to this

surely they would've had to pay her more than that, right? is there some kind of union stuff going on here?

My preorder's already locked in (digital), but damn, that's fucked up that they lowballed her so badly. Wish I had another way to show support besides angry tweeting :(

RySenkari posted...

My preorder's already locked in (digital)

Nope, eshop predorders finalize on the 21st, cancelled mine no problem.

https://twitter.com/FarFromSubtle/status/1581300616517013505?t=9oOyOGtfffJnzHR85ottVg&s=19

also she had me until she referred to Jesus Christ as our greatest moral teacher in part 4

This does sound fucked.

How long would you expect to work on a game like that? I can't imagine it's a quick job.

Wouldn't Jennifer Hale be more expensive than her anyway? Strange.

XIII_Rocks posted...

This does sound fucked.

How long would you expect to work on a game like that? I can't imagine it's a quick job.

For something with as much dialogue as Bayonetta, probably 8-16 hours.

Wow. $4,000 is insanely low.

For reference, I'm an indie author, and I paid an audiobook narrator $2,900 to read and produce my latest novel. The finished audiobook clocked in at just over 10 hours, so he got paid about $280 per finished hour, which was the terms of the contract. Many audio narrators charge north of $400/hour.

I have no idea what Taylor's contract looked like, but she should've been offered much more for voicing the lead in a AAA video game. Does anyone know what she got paid for Bayo 1 & 2? And Smash?

They gave her an offer and she refused it. Sounds like business to me. They aren't obligated to offer her anything. I'm not buying it because I haven't played the first two, but this doesn't seem like anything to boycott over

https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/1581316361657102337?t=X4YuDXIpTZQv1sLhiZLZhg&s=19

MZero posted...

They gave her an offer and she refused it. Sounds like business to me. They aren't obligated to offer her anything. I'm not buying it because I haven't played the first two, but this doesn't seem like anything to boycott over

"They aren't obligated to offer her anything" to voice the main character of a AAA game my dude???

XIII_Rocks posted...

This does sound fucked.

How long would you expect to work on a game like that? I can't imagine it's a quick job.

Depends on the length on the script and how many takes are needed. Also, there's the question of whether she strictly voices the character or if she's involved in production/sound design work.

I don't think time is the issue, though. She's likely upset that the Bayonetta franchise is taking off, seeing rereleases, and she's not earning any royalties because she signed a flat-rate contract for the first two games.

Voice actors get fucked over on the regular, so I'm not too happy with this

MZero posted...

They gave her an offer and she refused it. Sounds like business to me. They aren't obligated to offer her anything. I'm not buying it because I haven't played the first two, but this doesn't seem like anything to boycott over

What an oddly apathetic take

They were probably disappointed in her and wanted to cut ties so they offered her the low sum knowing that she will refuse, but still offered her the role "as respect" (yeah I know)

Not really sure it's about the money because Jennifer Hale wouldn't take 4k either

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

"They aren't obligated to offer her anything" to voice the main character of a AAA game my dude???

Obligated, no. She just got lowballed. Nintendo probably wanted Jennifer Hale instead.

I feel like there's more to this story.

I don't know the specifics of the contract, but I would guess that they lowballed her on purpose so she would pull out, leaving them open to pick Jennifer Hale as a bigger name.

That said, voice actors are typically treated like shit, and ones who dub over Japanese media in particular moreso. So I wouldn't be shocked if they just thought she was disposable because they don't care about the American version. I mean, we saw a Japanese developer replace Snake's voice actor who everyone thought was iconic. Why would another Japanese studio care about Bayo's American voice actor?

Nanis23 posted...

They were probably disappointed in her and wanted to cut ties so they offered her the low sum knowing that she will refuse, but still offered her the role "as respect" (yeah I know)

Not really sure it's about the money because Jennifer Hale wouldn't take 4k either

Yeah, it's very possible they didn't want her back, so they made her an insulting offer they knew she couldn't accept so they could have people like MZero say, "well they tried and she said no"

I was gonna wait on this anyway, but this is uhh odd?

Ill wait for the full story.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I feel like there's more to this story.

I don't know the specifics of the contract, but I would guess that they lowballed her on purpose so she would pull out, leaving them open to pick Jennifer Hale as a bigger name.

That said, voice actors are typically treated like shit, and ones who dub over Japanese media in particular moreso. So I wouldn't be shocked if they just thought she was disposable because they don't care about the American version. I mean, we saw a Japanese developer replace Snake's voice actor who everyone thought was iconic. Why would another Japanese studio care about Bayo's American voice actor?

Yeah, this is odd. The more I think about it, I don't understand how signing Hale sells more copies of Bayo 3. I mean, what gamer is sitting there thinking, "Bayo 1 & 2 weren't my jam... Oh wait, Jennifer Hale is VAing the main character now? Day 1 buy!"

With MGS5, signing Kiefer Sutherland created some buzz because he was a big-name TV actor in the 2000s. Not saying Hayter should've been replaced (even with MGS5's plot twist being considered), but the Sutherland hiring likely got the attention of some people who initially didn't plan on buying MGS5.

Sorozone posted...

I was gonna wait on this anyway, but this is uhh odd?

Ill wait for the full story.

This is going to sound unfair, but I straight-up won't believe whatever excuse Nintendo/Platinum comes up with. Companies lie all the time because they receive zero repercussions and have fans to defend them. Hellena Taylor has much less reason to lie because going after a big company like this will torpedo her career.

Also what was the point of the voice actor's strike if something like this happens? Legitimately, I'm just wondering what they were fighting for, because it seems like American voice actors are still getting shafted.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Also what was the point of the voice actor's strike if something like this happens? Legitimately, I'm just wondering what they were fighting for, because it seems like American voice actors are still getting shafted.

It's a lot better for VAs that are in a union.

Many VAs aren't in a union, often because many companies boycott unions and they're not financially stable or famous enough to turn down random roles. So yeah, VAs still getting fucked over.

plasmabeam posted...

Yeah, this is odd. The more I think about it, I don't understand how signing Hale sells more copies of Bayo 3. I mean, what gamer is sitting there thinking, "Bayo 1 & 2 weren't my jam... Oh wait, Jennifer Hale is VAing the main character now? Day 1 buy!"

With MGS5, signing Kiefer Sutherland created some buzz because he was a big-name TV actor in the 2000s. Not saying Hayter should've been replaced (even with MGS5's plot twist being considered), but the Sutherland hiring likely got the attention of some people who initially didn't plan on buying MGS5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq_MBc0DAas

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Also what was the point of the voice actor's strike if something like this happens? Legitimately, I'm just wondering what they were fighting for, because it seems like American voice actors are still getting shafted.

I've noticed Nintendo, Square, Capcom, among others, have been using a LOT more non-union talent since the union deal was made. It's why Alyson Court didn't reprise her role for RE2, it's why we got "Twials Of Mana"... it's infuriating but there's really no way for gamers to force the issue because video game boycotts have been largely ineffective on this sort of thing.

This really sounds like they wanted to replace her, but wanted to avoid the fan backlash of actively not hiring her, so lowballed her knowing she wouldn't accept allowing them to give the vague announcement of "Various overlapping circumstances made it difficult for Hellena Taylor to reprise her role".

KamikazePotato posted...

This is going to sound unfair, but I straight-up won't believe whatever excuse Nintendo/Platinum comes up with. Companies lie all the time because they receive zero repercussions and have fans to defend them. Hellena Taylor has much less reason to lie because going after a big company like this will torpedo her career.

I believe her, but I don't think she has a career to torpedo at this point. According to her IMDB page, her most recent acting credit is Smash 4.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

"They aren't obligated to offer her anything" to voice the main character of a AAA game my dude???

I mean they could have just offered it to someone else. Obviously I'm not saying she should do it for free lol

Leonhart4 posted...

What an oddly apathetic take

I just don't think the company did anything wrong. I also think she did the right thing not settling for less than she believes she's worth. They just didn't agree on how valuable she was, whether that's because they didn't think she was worth more or they wanted to go with someone else anyway.

"Well I just don't think the company did anything wrong" is the boot grinding on the neck of 95% of the people in the entertainment industry

KamikazePotato posted...

This is going to sound unfair, but I straight-up won't believe whatever excuse Nintendo/Platinum comes up with. Companies lie all the time because they receive zero repercussions and have fans to defend them. Hellena Taylor has much less reason to lie because going after a big company like this will torpedo her career.

I mean I agree. Nintendo especially has been very anti-union based on rumors. So it wouldn't be surprising in the least. It's just weird to completely lowball her here, then go get Hale. Hale ain't no slouch and I doubt she is taking jobs for the amount Taylor was offered here, but at the same time Hale isn't going to move the needle here for sales. Bayonetta's base is just a loyal base, I don't know how much more of an installment they would get from switching.

Well, I won't be buying it. $4000 is an insultingly low offer.

Reactions from the places I've checked seem to be split between "yeah that's bullshit" and "well they're a company so they can do whatever they want"

I will never understand why people who are infatuated with entertainment media find it so difficult to have a shred of empathy for the people who help create the thing they love the SECOND company branding they have no stake in is on the line

KamikazePotato posted...

I will never understand why people who are infatuated with entertainment media find it so difficult to have a shred of empathy for the people who help create the thing they love the SECOND company branding they have no stake in is on the line

Because they want to play the game without feeling bad. So they rationalize it.

Unfortunately some people just dont believe corporations or anyone influential/rich/etc should ever be held accountable for anything.

RySenkari posted...

I've noticed Nintendo, Square, Capcom, among others, have been using a LOT more non-union talent since the union deal was made. It's why Alyson Court didn't reprise her role for RE2, it's why we got "Twials Of Mana"... it's infuriating but there's really no way for gamers to force the issue because video game boycotts have been largely ineffective on this sort of thing.

Jennifer Hale is union though. What Nintendo games are non union?

MZero posted...

I just don't think the company did anything wrong. I also think she did the right thing not settling for less than she believes she's worth. They just didn't agree on how valuable she was, whether that's because they didn't think she was worth more or they wanted to go with someone else anyway.

Maybe they didn't do anything wrong legally, but if all you care about is legality and not ethics, then you're just going to side with cold hard business every single time.

Its probable Nintendo just wanted Hale

which is really weird because Im pretty sure Taylor voiced Bayonetta in Smash

For more examples of dub VAs getting completely fucked, look at the recent Jujutsu Kaisen movie release: $300 flat rate with no royalties for the characters with the most prominent roles.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the failure of Babylon's Fall has something to do with this.

Leonhart4 posted...

Maybe they didn't do anything wrong legally, but if all you care about is legality and not ethics, then you're just going to side with cold hard business every single time.

I mean, I wouldn't say she did anything wrong if she came in asking for one million dollars either. Unless this would take so long that she's making like $10/hr or something I don't think it's an ehtical issue. If they asked to audition for a role that would pay $20k and then offered her $4k to do it, that I would have an issue with

I work freelance and get lowball offers all the time. I just turn them down and move on. Obviously it's frustrating and I don't even blame her for being upset but calling for boycotts seems a bit excessive. By all means boycott if you don't like the new actress though, or even if you just really liked the old one

although, maybe the experience of being lowballed so often has made me numb and I'm just out of touch here. That's definitely possible

Are we at the point that japanese audio is the morally correct choice?

ahead of the curve

As we know, "internet boycotts" do not do anything, so people will say that they're "boycotting" the game in word only but still buy and play it because their desire to play the game overshadows their willingness to prove a point.

pjbasis posted...

Are we at the point that japanese audio is the morally correct choice?

No, for two reasons.

It's still the same people that brought in the Japanese voices that are screwing over the English ones.

Japanese voicing from Japanese companies are known for being low paying as well.
https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2020/12/31-1/demon-slayer-voice-actor-says-that-no-matter-how-popular-the-work-is-the-salary-stays-the-same

WhiteLens posted...

No, for two reasons.

It's still the same people that brought in the Japanese voices that are screwing over the English ones.

Japanese voicing from Japanese companies are known for being low paying as well.
https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2020/12/31-1/demon-slayer-voice-actor-says-that-no-matter-how-popular-the-work-is-the-salary-stays-the-same

Yeah, if you want to do a universal boycott for voice actors in video games, you aren't going to be playing many if any Japanese developed/published games.

UberPyro64 posted...

Yeah, if you want to do a universal boycott for voice actors in video games, you aren't going to be playing many if any Japanese developed/published games.

Correction, you won't be buying many games in general because unless your name is Noland North, Jennifer Hale or Troy Baker VA's aren't exactly making bank on games.

TKDBoy1889 posted...

Correction, you won't be buying many games in general because unless your name is Noland North, Jennifer Hale or Troy Baker VA's aren't exactly making bank on games.

True, it's just even more apparent in Japan because of the lack of unions.

sigh

a general boycott is a very different situation than a specific instance where an artist is calling for one

that said if anyone wants to stop buying all AAA video games with voice acting and only buy indies on itch or whatever, or pirate every AAA video game, more power to them