Current Events > TLJ ruined my interest in Star Wars for quite some time *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I never watched RoS but remember Phasma? Was she just created to sell action figures of a shiny stormtrooper? There were a lot of bad character arcs and motivations but she felt absolutely pointless the whole time.

Autocraticus posted...

I never watched RoS but remember Phasma? Was she just created to sell action figures of a shiny stormtrooper? There were a lot of bad character arcs and motivations but she felt absolutely pointless the whole time.

A lot of characters were just completely forgotten. I still can't remember the name, but that bartender CG alien thing seemed important in the first movie and had some story to tell with the lightsaber. She was like in a call briefly in Last Jedi and then she was just background decoration.

Maz Kanata's story of how she got the Skywalker lightsaber still hasn't been told, not even in side content.

CyricZ posted...

Maz Kanata's story of how she got the Skywalker lightsaber still hasn't been told, not even in side content.

Please don't give Disney ideas.

BurmesePenguin posted...

Please don't give Disney ideas.

I'm just saying. For anyone not as attached as I am wondering if that story has been told in a comic, book, animated short, etc., it has yet to be told.

As far as anyone knows, the lightsaber falls down the shaft in Bespin and appears in a chest in Maz's basement thirty years later.

CyricZ posted...

I'm just saying. For anyone not as attached as I am wondering if that story has been told in a comic, book, animated short, etc., it has yet to be told.

As far as anyone knows, the lightsaber falls down the shaft in Bespin and appears in a chest in Maz's basement thirty years later.

Right, and the fact that it "called out" to Rey makes the whole "she's actually nobody" thing 100x more stupid

Derwood posted...

Right, and the fact that it "called out" to Rey makes the whole "she's actually nobody" thing 100x more stupid

No I don't see it that way. It's the Force, man. It's not against any kind of established information that an item tied to the Force can only "call out" to another powerful Force user if that user has some kind of direct relation to the object.

Besides, why would Rey have some kind of familial connection to the Skywalker lightsaber? She's a Palpatine.

In fact there's plenty of precedence that all it takes is some kind of tie to the Force itself for items, artifacts, places, events, to call to just about anyone with sufficient sensitivity to the Force.

Derwood posted...

Right, and the fact that it "called out" to Rey makes the whole "she's actually nobody" thing 100x more stupid

Why is it less dumb that Luke's lightsaber would call out to a daughter of Palpatine than a force sensitive nobody?

Why would a light-side Jedi's lightsaber call out to a Palpatine? Or why wouldn't the voices she heard be a mash-up of Grievous, Dooku, Palpatine and Maul instead of Kenobi and Yoda?

I dunno, you tell me.

Either way, I don't agree with how restrictive you want SW lore to be.

Derwood posted...

Why would a light-side Jedi's lightsaber call out to a Palpatine? Or why wouldn't the voices she heard be a mash-up of Grievous, Dooku, Palpatine and Maul instead of Kenobi and Yoda?

Are these actual questions you're asking, or is this just complaining?

I'd prefer to know before we continue.

To me, I just see the ST as one big product. It's been so long at this point. It's not that bad overall, but could have been much better.

I actually only watched 1, 5, and 9 this May 4th. It was pretty random.

I'm excited to see how the next trilogy goes with Rey. I'm also excited to see some of the pre-ST gaps filled in via the Mandoverse.

CyricZ posted...

Are these actual questions you're asking, or is this just complaining?

I'd prefer to know before we continue.

It's illustrating the point that RJ willfully shit on a premise that JJ set up just to shit on it

InfinityMonster posted...

I actually only watched 1, 5, and 9 this May 4th. It was pretty random.

Wow that is random.

InfinityMonster posted...

I'm excited to see how the next trilogy goes with Rey.

I think it's meant to be a single movie. Honestly, I think this is the best idea.

Derwood posted...

It's illustrating the point that RJ willfully shit on a premise that JJ set up just to shit on it

So complaining then.

CyricZ posted...

So complaining then.

I mean, sure? Is your method of shutting down conversation to label other people's posts as "complaining"?

Derwood posted...

I mean, sure? Is your method of shutting down conversation to label other people's posts as "complaining"?

What is the conversation you're looking for, here? Are you asking questions looking for answers or are you just looking for things to complain about and hoping people agree with you?

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about in my previous posts. This whole discourse is one repeating therapy session of venting and complaining.

CyricZ posted...

No one's saying you're not. Chill.

Like I said it's not just you.

There's a cottage industry around Star Wars fandom rehabilitation and recovery.

I went through it similarly, although quite a few years prior.

But this version of it is just constant "I need to talk about how TLJ was awful, we can't talk about this enough." Like it's a group therapy session we have over and over again.

And it's gotten 5 pages of responses, so obviously people want to talk about it. Get over it?

Derwood posted...

Why would a light-side Jedi's lightsaber call out to a Palpatine? Or why wouldn't the voices she heard be a mash-up of Grievous, Dooku, Palpatine and Maul instead of Kenobi and Yoda?

Grievous was a Sith?

greenjeans posted...

Grievous was a Sith?

Not really...I guess he was ALLIED with the Sith?

Slayer_22 posted...

Not really...I guess he was ALLIED with the Sith?

Okay, that's what I thought. Just trained how to use sabers

Slayer_22 posted...

And it's gotten 5 pages of responses, so obviously people want to talk about it. Get over it?

Get over TLJ first haha.

greenjeans posted...

Grievous was a Sith?

Yeah see about here was when I realized that Derwood was just in complaining mode.

CyricZ posted...

Get over TLJ first haha.

Nah.

There are but 3 constants in the world:
1) Death
2) Taxes
3) A CEman waking up in the morning and deciding that bitching about TLJ is the best way to spend his day

I'm wistful for a time when the 3 constants were death, taxes, and a new Venture Bros. season every 2-3 years.

I just found to movie to be either boring and when it wasn't boring, it was stupid.

Couldn't take Poe seriously from the get go cause of that stupid Yo mama joke. Finn's been relegated to comic relief while also retreading the same character arc from the previous movie. The entire Holdo plot drama was dumb and as transparent as glass. The less said about what happens with Rose, the better.

Phasma was just chucked in there for a quick scene to get rid of her. Though to be fair, there really wasn't too much with her from TFA. The whole Ex-ST Finn vs. his former commander as Finn grows away from his indoctrinated upbringing could have been a decent side plot throughout the trilogy, but it's just wasted.

I didn't have as much issue with Luke as many others had, but the flashbacks of him and Kylo were dumb.

About the only part of TLJ that I found interesting was the Rey/Kylo scenes. I really enjoyed their interactions throughout the whole movie. I really wanted to see them grasp hands and try to figure things out away from all the first order/resistance bullshit, but I guess that would've been too boring for the average moviegoer. In any case, that got ruined by Kylo declaring himself the next big bad.

Honestly, my biggest problem with TLJ was wasted character potential. RoS is a worse movie in every way, but I'd still watch it over TLJ any day. RoS was so bad that it's genuinely funny at points. TLJ was just disappointing, frustrating, and boring, it's greatest sin.

Slayer_22 posted...

Nah.

Well then we'll see you at next week's therapy session where we will continue to make no progress.

CyricZ posted...

Well then we'll see you at next week's therapy session where we will continue to make no progress.

It's mental health month - lay off that one.

People really out here explaining JJs mystery box theory like its a good thing. SMH.

There are definitely some problems with TLJin particular structural problems with the plot largely stemming from the decision to make the entire movie centered around a chase sequence. Now you can make the argument that thats partly JJs fault for deciding to end TFA on a fucking cliffhanger so they had no real choice other than to have TLJ start immediately where TFA leaves off, but I cant help but feel like there had to have been a better direction to go in.

The dialogue is also pretty bad at points, even for a Star Wars film. Maybe not on the level of I hate sand but there are some real stinkers. The quippiness of the sequels is bad all around and TLJ is no exception.

That said, I dont find everyones complaints about the characters individual arcs very compelling. You might not like what they do with Lukes story, but that doesnt make it bad. Luke has always, always, always been a melodramatic little bitch. You could power an entire star fleet with his whining from the Original Trilogy alone.

Overall I think TLJ does a pretty good job of developing its character arcs and having those arcs drive the plot forward. Each of the principal characters (Luke, Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe, Rose) has their own character development that gets informed by the plot development, and in turn informs their own actions which then develop the plot further. Roses line about saving what you love is stupid as hell, but her decision to stop Finn from sacrificing himself makes perfect sense in the context of her character arc.

Also its just a straight up good looking movie. You can point out little nitpicks here and there of things missed in editing and post production but from a cinematography perspective it might be the best shot Star Wars film, period.

So, yeah. If The Last Jedi ruined Star Wars for you, I dont know what to say other than, maybe do some self-reflection?

Nintendo_Porn posted...

It's mental health month - lay off that one.

Just ignore him. He's really insensitive about a lot of stuff.

Anyway, another thing I wasn't much a fan of was the whole hyperspace thing. Movie could have done without that honestly.

Nintendo_Porn posted...

It's mental health month - lay off that one.

Slayer_22 posted...

Just ignore him. He's really insensitive about a lot of stuff.

I'm not the one being flippant about this. This is a years-long exercise trying to process your frustration towards a piece of fiction.

And absolutely no progress has been made in that time. Y'all are just as bitter now as you were then.

Have you considered finding a way to come to terms with it all, or are you just going to be complaining for another five years?

The movie is straight trash, easily the worst mass released Star Wars film. For how much people try to gas it up it was actually considerably more simple than most other films. Star Wars has always been about the "Hero's Journey" or the "Monomyth." The Last Jedi borrowed extremely heavily from Buddhist parables so it ended up just being white yuppie's first "Eastern Philosophy" class instead. Rise of Skywalker is worth seeing for Beast Machines Megatron - Palpatine at least.

CyricZ posted...

I'm not the one being flippant about this. This is a years-long exercise trying to process your frustration towards a piece of fiction.

And absolutely no progress has been made in that time. Y'all are just as bitter now as you were then.

Have you considered finding a way to come to terms with it all, or are you just going to be complaining for another five years?

Rich coming from the guy that will continue arguing about Dave Chappelle and Harry Potter every chance he gets.

MuscleRobo posted...

The movie is straight trash, easily the worst mass released Star Wars film. For how much people try to gas it up it was actually considerably more simple than most other films. Star Wars has always been about the "Hero's Journey" or the "Monomyth." The Last Jedi borrowed extremely heavily from Buddhist parables so it ended up just being white yuppie's first "Eastern Philosophy" class instead. Rise of Skywalker is worth seeing for Beast Machines Megatron - Palpatine at least.

The only reason I feel tempted to see RoS is to compete the saga but...fuck, I don't really want to.

Slayer_22 posted...

Rich coming from the guy that will continue arguing about Dave Chappelle and Harry Potter every chance he gets.

I don't go on about Harry Potter. I go on about JK Rowling. She and Dave Chappelle are living people, not pieces of fiction.

But let's not engage in your usual "you're just as bad as me" activity and let's talk about your topic and your feelings.

And to that point:

Slayer_22 posted...

The only reason I feel tempted to see RoS is to compete the saga but...fuck, I don't really want to.

What do you expect to happen when you see the film? The earth to swallow you whole? The sun to blink out of existence? It's a few hours of mediocre cinema and if it gives you any profound emotional trauma, find a way to process it or get some help in doing so.

I'd say "just don't see it", but clearly that's not an option. You're going to see it eventually, as you're still a Star Wars fan, as you claim. You could put aside these petty dramatics and rip that old band-aid.

Oh, sorry. Was that "insensitive"?

JK Rowling woulda wrote a better SW trilogy tho let's be

CyricZ posted...

I don't go on about Harry Potter. I go on about JK Rowling. She and Dave Chappelle are living people, not pieces of fiction.

But let's not engage in your usual "you're just as bad as me" activity and let's talk about your topic and your feelings.

And to that point:

What do you expect to happen when you see the film? The earth to swallow you whole? The sun to blink out of existence? It's a few hours of mediocre cinema and if it gives you any profound emotional trauma, find a way to process it or get some help in doing so.

I'd say "just don't see it", but clearly that's not an option. You're going to see it eventually, as you're still a Star Wars fan, as you claim. You could put aside these petty dramatics and rip that old band-aid.

Oh, sorry. Was that "insensitive"?

Dude if you're this mad just leave the topic lmao. And for the record, you're worse than me, I'm quite pleasant unlike whatever vitriol you've been spewing this topic lol.

The hide topic button is wonderful. Take a chill pill. We're having nice, civilized discussions in here.

TLJ sucked but man oh man was the next movie a real stinker.

Slayer_22 posted...

I'm quite pleasant

[citation needed]

I'm sorry you're having trouble dealing with your Star Wars trauma. I really am.

But there needs to be a way out of this. For your own good.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/3/3/AASa75AAEAFl.jpg

CyricZ posted...

I don't go on about Harry Potter. I go on about JK Rowling. She and Dave Chappelle are living people, not pieces of fiction.

But let's not engage in your usual "you're just as bad as me" activity and let's talk about your topic and your feelings.

And to that point:

What do you expect to happen when you see the film? The earth to swallow you whole? The sun to blink out of existence? It's a few hours of mediocre cinema and if it gives you any profound emotional trauma, find a way to process it or get some help in doing so.

I'd say "just don't see it", but clearly that's not an option. You're going to see it eventually, as you're still a Star Wars fan, as you claim. You could put aside these petty dramatics and rip that old band-aid.

Oh, sorry. Was that "insensitive"?

You're getting stranger as the thread extends...probably better just to let it go. Let people talk about stupid parts of stuff they like. We all do it and we all enjoy doing it

You know what let me put my thoughts in a different perspective.

I'm what I would call a "terminal" Star Wars fan. In that no matter what happens with the franchise, I will likely die a Star Wars fan. Now that doesn't mean I'd be following it forever if the quality dips, but quite frankly, the "Star Wars" that lives in my head and my heart is something that will never truly sour. It's mostly my love for the setting, and the possibilities, and only being bound by the limits of the imagination.

So that's a long walk to say that I love talking about Star Wars. If you get me in a proper mood, I will talk about Star Wars until the banthas come home.

But this is the kind of Star Wars discussion that bothers me. It's toxic and it's bitter. And yes, perhaps I should just turn myself off to it and let people do whatever, but the part I can't shake, and I did mention this in my first post in this topic, is that this has been going for so long. And it's so consistent. You can almost set your watch to finding a topic on CE of people complaining about Star Wars, almost always the Sequel Trilogy.

And I don't honestly feel like I have to rush to its defense. The ST can take care of itself. It made billions, and I have my own feelings about each film and have come to terms with them. In a more curated environment and with prompting, I'd share them, but this ain't that.

But as I said, I've never seen this kind of behavior on anything but Star Wars. Sure, people complain about anything on these boards, but for so long, and so consistently, and with so much fresh vigor every time, all for something that has said what it wanted to say and nothing will change that. It's a genuine mystery.

And I wonder if there's been some YT genius who has figured out why this phenomenon has happened as such, but I'd rather not wade through the quagmire of YT SW essays to find out.

So my long-labored point is basically the same as it was: there's gotta be a way out of this for you all, and it worries me how few people are willing to seek it.

They don't want a way out, nor feel the need for one, or any of that. You are trying to tell someone who defends pineapple on pizza that they need a way out of doing that, and coming off as feeling holier for it. So perhaps you need a way out of how you're feeling about them

Except pineapple on pizza isn't a toxic or bitter behavior, so I don't know what that analogy was supposed to accomplish.

Trying to turn it back on me is the alcoholic saying "I don't have a problem YOU have a problem".

Now THAT'S a more apt analogy.

CyricZ posted...

Except pineapple on pizza isn't a toxic or bitter behavior, so I don't know what that analogy was supposed to accomplish.

Trying to turn it back on me is the alcoholic saying "I don't have a problem YOU have a problem".

Now THAT'S a more apt analogy.

It is quite toxic

Uh oh here we go again all subjective trying to sound objective

greenjeans posted...

It is quite toxic

Okay thanks for not contributing anything constructive, friend.

Shows me engaging with the latest in a series of banned accounts.

CyricZ posted...

Okay thanks for not contributing anything constructive, friend.

Shows me engaging with the latest in a series of banned accounts.

Just trying to help your overall well-being

It's weird. I don't really agree with Cyric's takes whenever he argues about the discourse regarding Last Jedi and find that comes off as quite an agenda driven jerk about it.

But my god, whenever he does argue about it, his opposition is just the fucking worst. Like the bottom of the argumentative barrel.

Cyric for you maybe Star Wars is a passion but for many others it's just a series of movies and TLJ is a movie that discarded a great deal of exciting and interesting plot elements set up in the prequel. TFA also had problems but I was still excited for the next installment at the time.

Now there's merit to the mystery box, the problem is mystery boxes are meant to stay closed forever, or if you do open them, it has to be something really awesome inside. What TLJ did was turn that scene in which Hiro-san reveals to miss weaver that nothing was inside the box the whole time. And that shock and disappointment was comical in a 5 minutes scene but it turned out to get stretched into the whole movie and then played off like it was some artsy fartsy expectations subverting genius. The whole TFA is about finding Luke. What's he gonna do? Turns out the answer is nothing. Who are Rey's parents and why did they abandon her in such a hurry? Again the answer is nothing. Who is Snoke? Again, nothing. Maybe you like that. Maybe you thought it was bold and challenging. I didn't and many others didn't.

There's nothing wrong with either of those opinions.

And to save you the trouble of scouring video essays, these topics are so toxic because people make them toxic. They don't have to be. People need to understand that an attack on something they like isn't an attack on them.

As for whether or not this goes on in other fandoms, it absolutely does, and I know it does because I'm on the opposite side of this argument on the Zack Snyder DC movies.

Tyranthraxus posted...

As for whether or not this goes on in other fandoms, it absolutely does, and I know it does because I'm on the opposite side of this argument on the Zack Snyder DC movies.

That's a good point. Maybe I'm just passively ignoring the DC movie topics and missing out on that discourse.

That said...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Cyric for you maybe Star Wars is a passion but for many others it's just a series of movies

No one who would be this salty about Star Wars or DC movies would I ever accept that they think of them as "just a series of movies".

CyricZ posted...

No one who would be this salty about Star Wars or DC movies would I ever accept that they think of them as "just a series of movies".

Well I do think there's merit to the suggestion that some people hate the movie for ulterior motives. Rose's actress was bullied off social media. People have had it out for Rey & Kathleen Kennedy since the beginning. And stuff like that. For those people it's definitely not just a movie but the movie part of it isn't what they have a problem. Attacking the movie is their way of trying to prove it doesn't work but they don't want it to work for reasons that have nothing to do with the plot of the movie itself.

Other people will bandwagon on once one starts as they all want to share their grievances.

By and large I never hear anyone talking about Star wars these days except for D+ shows. There's more discussion now than usual because Jedi Survivor just came out but honestly people seem mostly done with this particular topic.

hockeybub89 posted...

So much better than the trash fire prequels

Nah, the prequels were better. At least they were enjoyable to watch.