Current Events > TLJ ruined my interest in Star Wars for quite some time *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I noped out of seeing Last Jedi when it came out and there was immediately this war between the media and people who didn't like it.

I still haven't seen it. There's no joy in it for me.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

I agree. That's why the movies were about getting him there, instead of starting him there.

The first movie automatically made him an ace pilot that could hit a pinpoint target on his first try despite having no training in an X-Wing and like five minutes of force training.

If A New Hope came out today and Luke was a woman, people would be calling him a Mary Sue.

COVxy posted...

I was asking you to assess your impression of whether this is a detail is actually accessible to the normal viewing of the movie. Most people miss the bear walking through the basketball field. My guess is that next to no one noticed this, and is only accessible because, for some reason, people felt the need to fine tooth comb to find things to dislike.

Like others have said, do this in pretty much every single movie with any amount of action and you'll notice fuck ups.

Sure. There's whole channels dedicated to this stuff like cinema sins. And even if you disagree with these "sins" every movie has tons of fuck ups.

But movies that want to present themselves as action movies should at the bare minimum make sure the action is done right.

So do you think, if I went through them with a fine toothed comb, that I'd find a mistake like that in either of the two Avatar movies?

I mean you'd find a mistake like that in both Terminator and T2, arguably the greatest action movies of all time lol

Smashingpmkns posted...

I mean you'd find a mistake like that in both Terminator and T2, arguably the greatest action movies of all time lol

Whoooo that's a can of worms I'm not prepared to open at 10:30 pm

Are we really pretending that TLJ had worse background actors failing in action scenes than other action movies? Cause that's been a trope since the 80s

Tyranthraxus posted...

So do you think, if I went through them with a fine toothed comb, that I'd find a mistake like that in either of the two Avatar movies?

A choreography goof? No. Because the action scenes are basically all animated with CGI.

Continuity goofs? Absolutely.

Hinakuluiau posted...

Are we really pretending that TLJ had worse background actors failing in action scenes than other action movies? Cause that's been a trope since the 80s

I don't think the background actor is at fault here. He did what he was asked to do.

Hornswoggled posted...

I noped out of seeing Last Jedi when it came out and there was immediately this war between the media and people who didn't like it.

I still haven't seen it. There's no joy in it for me.

And didn't this movie apparently traumatize the fuck out of some people? Didn't Nerdrotic, and Doomcock, and all those people come out of the woodwork to go to war with Hollywood because of Last Jedi?

Hornswoggled posted...

Doomcock

Lol is this a real person

While we're on the subject, this video is one of my favorite in depth "goof" combing

Spoilers for Star Trek.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xhslseNBOU

Hornswoggled posted...

And didn't this movie apparently traumatize the fuck out of some people? Didn't Nerdrotic, and Doomcock, and all those people come out of the woodwork to go to war with Hollywood because of Last Jedi?

That says more about internet discourse than the movie or Hollywood.

Luke's potrayal isn't that bad when you consider he grew up. He's not some idealistic punk ass kid anymore - he's a jedi historian, who stared into the holocrons as a consular, tried to rebuild the order, and realized like past jedi before him he was teaching the wrong lesson, and even went on to carry on the hypocrisy of the jedi by attempting to slay his own nephew on suspicion he may end up mass murderer.

He was full of shit like everyone else, and proved the jedi are just sith not honest about what they kill for.

Punished_Blinx posted...

It is a bit weird isn't it? Like you'd think Star Wars is the most ruined sci-fi franchise around.

I have my issues with the PT and ST but God damn it's nothing compared to what happened to the other sci-fi franchises I like. At least in every movie there's concepts and decisions worth talking about.

I mean there's that.

And also despite their fandom being ruined over the ST, people still can't stop talking about it.

It was dumb as fuck they didn't get the same director for all 3 movies. And if they had to have different directors, they didn't sit them all down at a table and come up with the framework so they cant undo each others stuff and try to make the movie for themselves.

Nintendo_Porn posted...

Luke's potrayal isn't that bad when you consider he grew up. He's not some idealistic punk ass kid anymore - he's a jedi historian, who stared into the holocrons as a consular, tried to rebuild the order, and realized like past jedi before him he was teaching the wrong lesson, and even went on to carry on the hypocrisy of the jedi by attempting to slay his own nephew on suspicion he may end up mass murderer.

He was full of shit like everyone else, and proved the jedi are just sith not honest about what they kill for.

Yeah like most of the stuff in that passage makes his potrayal horrible . Getting older does not make you an asshole.

cjsdowg posted...

Yeah like most of the stuff in that passage makes his potrayal horrible . Getting older does not make you an asshole.

No, but saving the galaxy because you could sense the good in your father and fast-forwarding decades to sensing the bad in your nephew and having a split-second reaction to ignite your lightsaber, playing into the mindgames the greatest Sith of all time has been working on him, will make you appear as an asshole.

Hinakuluiau posted...

No, but saving the galaxy because you could sense the good in your father and fast-forwarding decades to sensing the bad in your nephew and having a split-second reaction to ignite your lightsaber, playing into the mindgames the greatest Sith of all time has been working on him, will make you appear as an asshole.

It wasn't a split second, this is like pulling out a gun, pointing it next to the your nephew's head, and cocking it. There is not excuse for it. Then when the shit hit the fan. He didn't do anything to fix it.

cjsdowg posted...

It wasn't a split second, this is like pulling out a gun, pointing it next to the your nephew's head, and cocking it. There is not excuse for it. Then when the shit hit the fan. He didn't do anything to fix it.

You're really underselling how visceral the visions a Jedi can get are, how Luke has always had the emotional range of a teaspoon, and that he literally saw his nephew destroying everything he and his friends had built up for decades. Not to mention that he regretted igniting the lightsaber immediately.

Hinakuluiau posted...

You're really underselling how visceral the visions a Jedi can get are, how Luke has always had the emotional range of a teaspoon, and that he literally saw his nephew destroying everything he and his friends had built up for decades. Not to mention that he regretted igniting the lightsaber immediately.

Luke knows visions are the real. Just something that could happen. He learned this before. And who cares that he regretted it. He did nothing to fix his mistake. He bitches about the jedi when his actions where the opposite of what Jedi would do.

https://youtu.be/fDYvG_P3MnU

You can instantly see the shock and regret Luke has when he ignites the lightsaber.

cjsdowg posted...

Luke knows visions are the real. Just something that could happen. He learned this before. And who cares that he regretted it. He did nothing to fix his mistake. He bitches about the jedi when his actions where the opposite of what Jedi would do.

The Jedi make an effort to redeem people who fall to the dark side?

Like the overall point was that he was repeating the same mistakes of the Jedi. He needed to be better.

Doom_Art posted...

The reasons are just always so... dumb though

You slurp that movie so this means nothing.

Hinakuluiau posted...

You're really underselling how visceral the visions a Jedi can get are,

And this is one of my problems with TLJ

Because the magnitude of these powers play pivotal roles in the plot but are never really illustrated in a way that makes their result believable

Like the inter-galactic Skype call that can kill you because those long distance charges are fuckin cray

Can we agree that TLJ has beautiful visuals

Punished_Blinx posted...

The Jedi make an effort to redeem people who fall to the dark side?

Like the overall point was that he was repeating the same mistakes of the Jedi. He needed to be better.

The mistake was trusting horrible people, not killing children in their sleep.

Punished_Blinx posted...

RoS to me says no.

RoS had to deal with what TLJ destroyed so that's not a fair point at all.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Man that doesn't effect my enjoyment of the scene. Goofs happen all the time. It's a bad ass scene and probably one of the best fights, if not the best fight, in the franchise. It's not like Star Wars was ever known for well choreographed fight scenes.

My man are you serious? Anakin vs Obi-Wan exists and you're saying that is the best? Uhh.

K181 posted...

Always remember, diehard Star Wars fans only like two or three of the twelve Star Wars movies.

I love every movie but TLJ. And I haven't seen RoS.

If I had to rate them?

RotS > ESB > RotJ > ANH > Rogue One > Force Awakens > Phantom Menace > Attack of the Clones >>>>>>>>>>> TLJ

CyricZ posted...

I mean there's that.

And also despite their fandom being ruined over the ST, people still can't stop talking about it.

I don't think the fandom is ruined or anything myself. Not sure what you're even saying in this topic. I love the franchise but it burned a lot of good will. The older stuff was still amazing, I was just iffy on newer stuff. Hence how it ruined my interest.

cjsdowg posted...

The mistake was trusting horrible people, not killing children in their sleep.

They also believed that falls to the Dark Side were a one way trip and that they shouldn't be allowed to be emotional or love anyone.

Which kinda set up the stage for Anakin to begin with.

dave_is_slick posted...

RoS had to deal with what TLJ destroyed so that's not a fair point at all.

And TLJ had to deal with an OT repeat. Which is what TROS tried to revert back to.

If JJ had anything more interesting in mind he had the opportunity to use it. What we got was "Somehow Palpatine returned and also he's the grandfather of Rey because I have no original ideas or answers to my mystery boxes"

Smashingpmkns posted...

No that shit was cool as fuck. Every fight in Star Wars is pretty fucking bad but gets a pass. This was a legitimately good fight and had great visuals.

It's not. It is legit horrifically choreographed. The ONLY bit of it I liked was them actually using the fact that lightsabers turn off and on for actual combat. Blades crossed? Turn off and on, back in the fight!

K181 posted...

The first movie automatically made him an ace pilot that could hit a pinpoint target on his first try despite having no training in an X-Wing and like five minutes of force training.

He's had experience already hitting targets that small. He did it in his spare time.

Punished_Blinx posted...

If JJ had anything more interesting in mind he had the opportunity to use it.

Not when his foundation was destroyed.

dave_is_slick posted...

Not when his foundation was destroyed.

He made Rey related to someone important like he wanted.

Snoke wouldn't have had any purpose outside of being what Palpatine was in TROS. Abrams had no interest in explaining their rise to power in either of his movies. He was just redoing what the Emperor was in the OT. A mysterious bad guy for Kylo Ren to turn against and be redeemed.

What did he or we miss out on? It's not like he particularly cared about what TLJ did.

Like there's a reason JJ Abrams is specifically known for 'Mystery boxes'

The guy is known for giving out satisfying potential questions. But his focus has never been answers.

Dude gives TED talks about Mystery Boxes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpjVgF5JDq8

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/5/3/AACT2jAAEdXV.jpg

The point of Snoke and Rey was to speculate over things that he didn't really care about giving an answer to. The question is more interesting than the answer. It's his thing.

Then when he's given the movie that resolves those answers we get "Somehow Palpatine Returned" which really is still just another mystery box for people to figure out later. Mystery is the catalyst for imagination.

It's why he didn't care about setting up how the First Order got set up or how Snoke managed to do it. Mystery is the catalyst for imagination. In a sense that's what Star Wars also was before the PT to be totally fair to him. We didn't need to know who the Emperor was, what the Jedi were like etc. because it didn't matter to Luke's journey. The imagination of those things carried that franchise along until the prequels and basically everything outside of the movies.

dave_is_slick posted...

It's not. It is legit horrifically choreographed. The ONLY bit of it I liked was them actually using the fact that lightsabers turn off and on for actual combat. Blades crossed? Turn off and on, back in the fight!

Give me like 2 better fight scenes in star wars

Punished_Blinx posted...

What did he or we miss out on?

A second movie that would've built on the foundation.

Punished_Blinx posted...

The point of Snoke and Rey was to speculate over things that he didn't really care about giving an answer to. The question is more interesting than the answer. It's his thing.

Then when he's given the movie that resolves those answers we get "Somehow Palpatine Returned" which really is still just another mystery box for people to figure out later. Mystery is the catalyst for imagination.

JJ was trying to clean up all the miss from TLJ. There was no big bad. Snoke was dead and RJ wrote out find as love interest and made it Kylo. So because of those Reylo fans he couldn't be the big bad. RJ also made Hux into a fool.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Like there's a reason JJ Abrams is specifically known for 'Mystery boxes'

The guy is known for giving out satisfying potential questions. But his focus has never been answers.

Dude gives TED talks about Mystery Boxes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpjVgF5JDq8

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/5/3/AACT2jAAEdXV.jpg

The point of Snoke and Rey was to speculate over things that he didn't really care about giving an answer to. The question is more interesting than the answer. It's his thing.

Then when he's given the movie that resolves those answers we get "Somehow Palpatine Returned" which really is still just another mystery box for people to figure out later. Mystery is the catalyst for imagination.

It's why he didn't care about setting up how the First Order got set up or how Snoke managed to do it. Mystery is the catalyst for imagination. In a sense that's what Star Wars also was before the PT to be totally fair to him. We didn't need to know who the Emperor was, what the Jedi were like etc. because it didn't matter to Luke's journey. The imagination of those things carried that franchise along until the prequels and basically everything outside of the movies.

The problem is that Star Wars isn't some artsy horror movie. It's a narrative fantasy. His "mystery box" approach loses a lot of oomph when it's in a story that relies heavily on satisfactory payoff.

And star wars is absolutely dependent on the "buildup, payoff" structure. It has been since 1977. And the payoffs in the sequel trilogy were uniformly crap. Between Johnson deciding we didn't need them, and Rise shoehorning in completely unearned "capstone" moments, the whole thing is a flailing mess.

People excusing The Rickrack of Skywalker with "what else could JJ do after Last Jedi" are truly, truly, the worst shillers. He could have done literally anything else. He could have made an actual movie. He could have sat down with a team of writers and taken the time to "sort out the mess" if such a mess existed. If it was unsalvegable as some people seem to think, Disney could have stepped in and changed the release plan so that people all over the world were not made to pay to watch a fake movie.

Literally nobody forced him do a c-tier writing plan and bring back the franchise's most popular villain from the dead. Nobody forced him to do an insane macguffin after macguffin hunt plot. A fucking knife that folds out to reveal a certain configuration of crashed materials that was rusting away in salt water and wouldn't stay the same, all to find a weird thingamagic that has the magic power to take them to the McEvil planet. What the fuck is this sunday cartoon plot? I guess I could understand people making this criticism if he made an actual movie that failed to be good, but what he did was ask a team of twitter researchers "what did people dislike about Last Jedi?" and then wrote a script based on correcting as many of those perceptions as possible.

He even wrote Rose out of the movie into an E-plot background character. I don't like Rose, but you know... write her better and she's fine. The way the character was treated in Rumble in the Skywalker was basically a reward to all the shitty humans who abused her actor online. They got exactly what they wanted. But I guess there was nothing else he could have done. His hands were tied by Rian Johnson.

It's pretty crazy how Palpatine's return was revealed in Fortnite.

When I heard that Luke Skywalker died, I refused to watch the movie. As far as I'm concerned, Star Wars is a trilogy of films with a beginning, middle, and end.

And no CGI revisions.

BurmesePenguin posted...

People excusing The Rickrack of Skywalker with "what else could JJ do after Last Jedi" are truly, truly, the worst shillers. He could have done literally anything else. He could have made an actual movie. He could have sat down with a team of writers and taken the time to "sort out the mess" if such a mess existed. If it was unsalvegable as some people seem to think, Disney could have stepped in and changed the release plan so that people all over the world were not made to pay to watch a fake movie.

Literally nobody forced him do a c-tier writing plan and bring back the franchise's most popular villain from the dead. Nobody forced him to do an insane macguffin after macguffin hunt plot. A fucking knife that folds out to reveal a certain configuration of crashed materials that was rusting away in salt water and wouldn't stay the same, all to find a weird thingamagic that has the magic power to take them to the McEvil planet. What the fuck is this sunday cartoon plot? I guess I could understand people making this criticism if he made an actual movie that failed to be good, but what he did was ask a team of twitter researchers "what did people dislike about Last Jedi?" and then wrote a script based on correcting as many of those perceptions as possible.

He even wrote Rose out of the movie into an E-plot background character. I don't like Rose, but you know... write her better and she's fine. The way the character was treated in Rumble in the Skywalker was basically a reward to all the shitty humans who abused her actor online. They got exactly what they wanted. But I guess there was nothing else he could have done. His hands were tied by Rian Johnson.

Tbh I don't know how anyone can act like JJ Abrams hands were tied when he specifically took the time to outright disregard Rey's origin in TLJ to add some bullshit backstory that added absolutely nothing to Rey's character or the dilemma he was in.

Like we already had this assumption that it was going to repeat a twist like the OT. JJ Abrams specifically called back to it. By twisting the expectation that she is actually a nobody is the worst thing for Rey to hear. It's a gut punch for her and the audience. She wanted to be special and have an important reason for being ditched. That's an opportunity to show that heroes and family can come from anywhere and not only that but expand the potential stories within the Star Wars universe.

But instead JJ ignored it just to repeat the same stuff as the OT for no reason. Which not only ruined character arcs and consistency but again restricts things back to a limited number of people with the potential to be special due to being related to characters from the other movies. It's an outright reaction to surface level criticism and we know for a fact that JJ was still debating it when filming TROS which shows he never really had any strong idea on what the answer to his original mystery box was supposed to be.

Yep, that movie was complete fucking garbage. I have no idea how anyone could like it, non-Star Wars fan or not. My girlfriend cares not one bit for Star Wars and she thought Super Leia flying around was incredibly stupid.

Return of the Jedi had some bad parts, but overall it was a good movie. The prequels were all pretty terrible with Revenge being only comparably better than the garbage it was a sequel too. I gave zero fucks about Star Wars and then TFA hits. It's basically a rehash of ANH, has some cringe, some bad characters (that stupid CG bartender alien managed to be cringe and bad), but also some interesting new characters and maybe it could go places. TLJ was just awful. It was clear no one planned anything out and it was just being made up as it went along. I figured that was rock bottom. Then I saw RoS. That was reaching levels of bad I couldn't even imagine. I know people say Mandalorian or whatever is good but I don't care. I am done with it.

PesticideDream posted...

Yep, that movie was complete fucking garbage. I have no idea how anyone could like it, non-Star Wars fan or not. My girlfriend cares not one bit for Star Wars and she thought Super Leia flying around was incredibly stupid.

Super Leia made me roll my damn eyes into the back of my head. I almost couldn't finish it after that.

Slayer_22 posted...

Super Leia made me roll my damn eyes into the back of my head. I almost couldn't finish it after that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSNjk4vKDxA

cjsdowg posted...

Yeah like most of the stuff in that passage makes his potrayal horrible . Getting older does not make you an asshole.

Fine. He got older, and was staring into the abyss which fucks any idealism he had.

I'm just saying there is precedent for his behavior, and was even ranting about the BS of the order in TLJ. He wasn't talking out his ass. He had all that time to study the history.

He ended up just like any emotionally closed off jedi as seen in Book of bobba. (Other disney star wars) That's true to star wars imo, but yes yes....it propagates the jedi being a fucking cult who molds murderers.

I know it's jarring, and i bring this up alot, but kotor 2 makes me appreciate what they did even if hamill himself hates it.

Slayer_22 posted...

I don't think the fandom is ruined or anything myself. Not sure what you're even saying in this topic. I love the franchise but it burned a lot of good will. The older stuff was still amazing, I was just iffy on newer stuff. Hence how it ruined my interest.

Your own personal fandom, is what I meant. Your interest, your motivation.

The discourse is not about what Star Wars is doing or where it's going, but where you thought it should have been.

And it's not just you specifically, but so many people in this topic. And in every Star Wars topic we've had on this board for the last five years.

CyricZ posted...

Your own personal fandom, is what I meant. Your interest, your motivation.

The discourse is not about what Star Wars is doing or where it's going, but where you thought it should have been.

And it's not just you specifically, but so many people in this topic. And in every Star Wars topic we've had on this board for the last five years.

I legitimately said, in the topic title, that it ruined it for 'quite some time' then Fallen Order and Mandalorian reinvigorated it. That is why I'm talking about it now. Jedi Survivor came out, and I'm enjoying that. I'm musing over the fact that I missed out on Mandalorian until S2 because I didn't like the movie.

I'm allowed to discuss my feelings on the movie or what I'd have liked changed or made different. If you're dissatisfied with myself or others doing so, there's a button that leads out of the topic. There's also a button that hides the topic. No one is forcing you to read the topic, man.

Slayer_22 posted...

I'm allowed

No one's saying you're not. Chill.

Like I said it's not just you.

There's a cottage industry around Star Wars fandom rehabilitation and recovery.

I went through it similarly, although quite a few years prior.

But this version of it is just constant "I need to talk about how TLJ was awful, we can't talk about this enough." Like it's a group therapy session we have over and over again.