Current Events > TLJ ruined my interest in Star Wars for quite some time *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I didn't think it'd be possible to outdo the prequels in suckiness, but... they found a way.

No you don't lol

People still bitch about Scream 3 being bad and it's much older. Does that make it a good movie now?

being a giant dead end

Five years later people still bitching about that movie lol

Yeah the biggest sin was trying to subvert expectations by being a giant dead end to all the mysteries set up in TFA which is ultimately what made it a very bad SW movie. I think as a movie, TLJ is pretty decent.

I see a lot more people saying those who don't like it are dumb/bigoted/fanboys, etc. than people shitting on people who like it. More people shit on the movie, but not the fans themselves.

I see this get tossed around a lot and it's symptomatic of such a lack of imagination

There were plenty of ways for the story to go after 8 lol

I don't get why people are so against the idea of that either. Why does every character have to be flawed and have to be jaded and cynical and be at a super low point? What's so wrong with Luke being a successful Jedi with a whole school? And why is it seen as a negative to want something like that?

AFAIK the original script for ep IX is public. From what I hear it wasn't that great, but at least it didn't actively undo the movie before it

No script would be a better script than RoS

I see a lot more people saying those who like it are dumb than people shitting on people who dislike it.

Thing is 'Exiled Luke' was already a thing in TFA and that was directly lifted from Lucas. Doesn't seem like that was ever happening in any of the movies. Of course the reasons could be different for each people but at the very least he was going to be used like another Obi-Wan or Yoda.

I don't think it's a negative to want something like that. They clearly wanted to go back to the feel of the OT and a successful Jedi school wasn't going to fit with that.

Thing is 'Exiled Luke' was already a thing in TFA and that was directly lifted from Lucas. Doesn't seem like that was ever happening in any of the movies. Of course the reasons could be different for each people but at the very least he was going to be used like another Obi-Wan or Yoda.

Sure, but there's a MASSIVE difference between "Luke disappeared on a mission looking for something on the Jedi homeworld out of his usual desire to help,"

From Lucas' first draft it was always "Luke's apprentice betrayed him and he exiled himself to a reclusive world in his misery"

the PT proved that Lucas isn't actually a very good writer...

And even if he created the series, it's not like his word is the ultimate final authority on anything. The OT had other writers and had editors and producers that helped shape the series into what it was.

I see this get tossed around a lot and it's symptomatic of such a lack of imagination

There were plenty of ways for the story to go after 8 lol

The strongest correlation in social sciences might be between the probability of whining about TLJ on the internet and being a thin skinned conservative.

Hate for TLJ is pretty bipartisan.

The strongest correlation in social sciences might be between the probability of whining about TLJ on the internet and being a thin skinned conservative.

I'm not trying to defend TRoS, but there were clearly better answers for all the mysteries from TFA than "nothing burgers". It's obvious he was trying to subvert expectations because that's what Rian Johnson loves to do in almost all of his films, but when you don't give a satisfying alternative with your subversion, of course you're going to expect backlash from it.

The strongest correlation in social sciences might be between the probability of whining about TLJ on the internet and being a thin skinned conservative.

Not to mention the (sadly) non-canon EU books

Sure, there were some sucky ones. And the New Jedi Order series is divisive, but they were captivating

I'm guessing he thinks TLJ is 'woke' because of the purple-hair lady

The strongest correlation in social sciences might be between the probability of whining about TLJ on the internet and being a thin skinned conservative.

My biggest qualm with TLJ was that it purposely shit on the story JJ Abrams was trying to set up, such that there was nowhere logical to go in TRoS.

The movie that relegated the only 2 minority characters into a universally panned c-plot is certainly not "woke" lol.

Well I mean yeah if you're complaining exclusively about "admiral purple hair," rose, or the casino planet, that's sketchy as fuck.

If we're being honest was JJ Abrams setting anything up that wasn't just another repeat of the OT? Would have been any better?

Not saying the story was great, but when you a) subvert the Luke scene set up at the end of TFA, b) make Rey's lineage be "nobody" and c) kill the major villain, what is JJ supposed to do with RoTS?

Over the years, I've come to realize that TLJ is my favorite of the ST, while TFA is probably my least favorite. Despite its flaws, I like that TLJ tried to do something different, unlike TFA, which played things too safe.

TFA put me to sleep how boring and safe it was. Whatta snore.

I found Rey to be uninspired. Finn was bleh and meh, either a lump on a log or embarrassing, especially beyond tfa. Kylo was so lamely constructed as a ragey villain I actively disliked him. Anti cool. I never wanted to see him again.

The character assassination of Luke Skywalker is what poisons the well.

I'm sorry. I dont care how "human" it is, post ROTJ Luke would never even consider executing Ben in cold blood. Not even for a second. And he CERTAINLY wouldn't fuck off to mope himself to death, leaving his friends and family to die at the hands of a mess he made.

Luke was meant to be the Superman character. The incorruptible force, who succeeded in all the places where his father failed. Anakin's power with Padme's compassion. The actual hope for the future, the Jedi's wisdom tempered with actual love. Yes, it's unrealistic. You know what else is unrealistic? Goddamn space wizards. It's a fantasy. It's like writing a sequel to Lord of the Rings where Aragorn decided to genocide the shire out of fear that lingering Ring corruption would get Sam.

What we're left with is a Luke whose arc barely matters. He's gone from a narrative foil to vader, to just a stepping stone in Vader and Rey's stories to prop them up.

I think his plan would have been that Luke's heroism was going to reignite people discovering they too could use the Force and sparking a new rebellion lead by the new generation of Rey, Finn etc. while also seeing the impact of someone like Kylo Ren getting the power and authority he felt like he was owed.

Would be cool to hear what his third movie would have been but I doubt we will.

Yeah. I mean, when asked to kill Darth Vader in RotJ, Luke tosses his lightsaber and refuses. "I am a Jedi, like my father."

And the minute he threw it away was the minute the last jedi's arc for him became ridiculous.

He overcame this test already. Obi Wan told him vader was irredeemable. Yoda told him that dark side corruption was irreversible. Vader himself repeated over and over that he could not be saved.

And Luke went in, unarmed, and even in the absolute darkest of moments, turned away amd saved him anyway.

This whole "if you could go back and kill Hitler when he was a kid" angle is ridiculous. Because, no. Luke would not. Maybe in EMPIRE he would have. But RotJ was LITERALLY about refusing to take the "quick and easy path, as Vader did." That was the entire point.

Luke isn't in the same scenario as he was with Vader.

Ben was his responsibility. Teaching the Force is dangerous. Look at how strict the Jedi overall is and how cautious they are of giving into the Dark Side. It's an entirely different dynamic. Ben's failure is his failure and on top of that he is family. If Ben follows the path of Vader he knows that he unleashed that back out into the galaxy.

It was a single scared thought that was overall orchestrated by Snoke just as planned. Luke wouldn't have killed him but for a brief second he thought of the consequences of what could happen if he didn't. Everyone in the saga makes mistakes that the bad guys usually capitalize on and his was a grave one.

Luke isn't in the same scenario as he was with Vader.

Ben was his responsibility. Teaching the Force is dangerous. Look at how strict the Jedi overall is and how cautious they are of giving into the Dark Side. It's an entirely different dynamic. Ben's failure is his failure and on top of that he is family. If Ben follows the path of Vader he knows that he unleashed that back out into the galaxy.

It was a single scared thought that was overall orchestrated by Snoke just as planned. Luke wouldn't have killed him but for a brief second he thought of the consequences of what could happen if he didn't. Everyone in the saga makes mistakes that the bad guys usually capitalize on and his was a grave one.

But it's not a mistake he would make.

Maybe if Ben actually DID something, sure. But "I sensed inner darkness and so I drew my weapon to kill him for bad things I think he might do, before I thought better of it?"

That's a hell of a thing. This wasn't a daydream. He had his weapon drawn.

And then he STILL fucks off to mope while the monster he made goes about systematically murdering his family and friends. And destroying planets. Like, the absurdity keeps compounding.

You don't NEED to be in the same situation. The Vader situation was a million times worse, and showed what character he was and the lengths he's gone and will go.

Luke would not have raised his lightsaber, Luke threw it away when imminent death was staring him in the face. Yet now that the idea, the CONCEPT of darkness was staring him in the face...he is scared?

Bullshit.

He ignited it in a second. Like as a reaction. He got the vision and reacted at the same time.

Which Luke would never do. Nor has he ever shown he's even capable of such.