Board 8 > FFXIV Topic 12 - Tales of loss and fire and faith

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's not even learning your rotation. It's straight up not pressing buttons. The truth is a lot of people play casually and don't know basics like "always be casting" and "keep cooldowns active." Or even stuff with elaborate fight mechanics, we all know and laugh at the classic newbie move of running away with the stack market but the game has added so much shit like that you just have to know. We get used to it by doing raids where they're introduced but I've anecdotally seen a bunch of people who quit during like...Stormblood come back to the game and marathon everything now and just be like "wtf is this shit" at all the flashing lights.

And that's fine right, the game gets marketed as a story focused MMO. I do get annoyed when people don't just use the trusts to learn mechanics though. I had a 40 minute run of the final MSQ dungeon today with two newbies, Ive seen multiple 30+ minute in-progress and vote abandons of the Hydaelyn trial and it's just like...why.

edit: specifically I think those two things (as well as the final Shadowbringers dungeon too actually) are a little pushed in difficulty relative to other story content and the devs can get away with it because Trusts are basically a tutorial. But I think less people use Trusts for going through the story than expected so you get newbies queuing for them and eating shit

It's wild to me that people defend a game that requires you to install a 3rd party addon that tells you where to go.

Sounds like they lost control of their fights.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I do get annoyed when people don't just use the trusts to learn mechanics though.

The last expac actually trained people to not use Trusts. A single Trust would take nearly an hour if not playing a DPS

UshiromiyaEva posted...

It's wild to me that people defend a game that requires you to install a 3rd party addon that tells you where to go.

Sounds like they lost control of their fights.

i think ffxiv has too, to a much much lesser extent and not quite in the same way

but i find it very hard to believe that the rise of FFLogs isn't part of what's contributed to fight design being streamlined, less adds, less downtime, no mechanics that'd randomly prevent a person from achieving a top parse (i.e. like being gaoled), etc

there's still a bit of that stuff, but much less of it.

maybe it's just because people don't like anything that stops them from pew pewing on the boss though, idk

FFLogs is one thing but add-ons for mechanic callouts and overlays in FF14, while they DO exist, are way more controversial in the community.

banananor posted...

i guarantee you have at 10k+ hours logged into action video games- yes, you are better than the median sampling of the population

??? no, i don't have 10k+ hours logged in to the genres i listed? lol. i have 10k+ hour in video games, but not those.

a lot of people play successful mmos outside of lifetime action gamers. a lot of the easy grinding, farming, old content, and crafting is targeted towards them

sure, that's a valid thing i was missing. yeah, this game may be attracting people who otherwise don't play games that require any real reflexes or learning, especially if they're playing to just see the story and then do farm/grind content.

complaining about newbies or the uncoordinated is not it, guys. in fact, the one thing that's supposed to be true about ffxiv is the positive and supportive community. (this is not targeted towards just you, obviously)

well a) some of us don't like the forced positivity vibes, but b) i'm not really complaining about newbies - if they were new, i'd understand it. it's when they're *not* new, and/or when they're clearly not even *trying*. if someone's at least trying, i don't care. and yeah, uncoordinated is one thing, but failing to clear a normal mode trial in an entire lockout, come on, that's pretty extreme. hence my wondering what on earth happened there. when i roll one of these trials i expect a wipe or two and a bunch of deaths, but not that.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

FFLogs is one thing but add-ons for mechanic callouts and overlays in FF14, while they DO exist, are way more controversial in the community.

yeah hence why i said it's not the same at all, but the thing i think it has in common is the addons influencing the game

i'm glad the game doesn't rely on stuff like that

i played some WoW (casually) and i remember how refreshing it was to start FFXIV and not have to immediately start tinkering with a million different mods before i felt i could play the game

UshiromiyaEva posted...

It's wild to me that people defend a game that requires you to install a 3rd party addon that tells you where to go.

Sounds like they lost control of their fights.

I refused to download any addons when I played WoW. You don't need them (or at least as of like 5 years ago you didn't), though they do seem to make things a lot easier

when i played (like 10 years ago) the biggest was mostly UI addons from what i recall. the default UI was just horrible.

Dels posted...

well a) some of us don't like the forced positivity vibes, but b) i'm not really complaining about newbies - if they were new, i'd understand it. it's when they're *not* new, and/or when they're clearly not even *trying*. if someone's at least trying, i don't care. and yeah, uncoordinated is one thing, but failing to clear a normal mode trial in an entire lockout, come on, that's pretty extreme. hence my wondering what on earth happened there.

Again you have to understand that a ton of people do not play this game regularly. They come around every few months or years to check out what's going on. You also can get absolute weirdos that level everything to cap via fates or Bozja in or doing all the sidequests in each zone, without even touching "normal" grouped content on most jobs. The important thing to understand here is the game is actually designed around this and that's part of why it's so successful.

LordoftheMorons posted...

I refused to download any addons when I played WoW. You don't need them (or at least as of like 5 years ago you didn't), though they do seem to make things a lot easier

My understanding was some of the highest difficulty fights they've introduced have been specifically included to not have tells for certain mechanics with the developer intention of you downloading weak auras, and that they cannot be beaten without them.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Again you have to understand that a ton of people do not play this game regularly. They come around every few months or years to check out what's going on. You also can get absolute weirdos that level everything to cap via fates or Bozja in or doing all the sidequests in each zone, without even touching "normal" grouped content on most jobs. The important thing to understand here is the game is actually designed around this and that's part of why it's so successful.

right, you can tell the difficulty of the game has been trending in the direction of them trying to make it as hard to fail as possible

that's where the job design went in multiple jobs that got reworks - you can't drop enochian anymore, your bard skills all work even if you forget dots, if you lose huton it just takes 1 click to get it back

and it's where the extra tank self-healing and mitigation comes from, and etc

so that's why it's particularly surprising to hear there are DF groups that are still failing despite that

obviously none of that stuff prevents you from dying if you can't learn a mechanic though

Doing mechanics while pressing buttons is more fun than doing mechanics without pressing buttons. That simple.

Dels posted...

you can't drop enochian anymore

speak for yourself

LordoftheMorons posted...

I refused to download any addons when I played WoW. You don't need them (or at least as of like 5 years ago you didn't), though they do seem to make things a lot easier

you don't need them for casual content but the game is still designed around the fact that you do have them, so you're playing at a large disadvantage if you choose to not use them. what was the hardest content you cleared back then? normal raids?

I think I got maybe like 2/3 of the way through heroic HFC near the very end of the expansion in WoD?

Yeah if you don't download addons in WoW the game is actively less fun in a lot of ways, that default UI is gross.

I have noticed that when I first leveled in FFXIV I was a fish out of water and now when I do roulettes normal content is like, super easy now that I am comfortable with the game.

They've been streamlining the jobs but at the same time there's been an increase in flashier gimmicks specific to fights instead of generic yellow aoes. That kind of stuff fucks people up. Nothing nearly as punishing as Titan deleting you from the fight but at least he told you it was about to happen.

Plus there's also the simple fact that a lot of people have not had to do content while it's current, besides like leveling dungeons which do have aggressive syncing. But for stuff at the level caps so much of it gets done after it's been outdated hard by ilevels and echo.

Again I should reiterate something Dels said- it is NOT about being new or bad. It is about not caring or trying. It is perfectly fine that people come around only once every few months, can't dodge certain mechanics, or aren't playing their job optimally. It is NOT fine for someone to completely ignore advice when given it in a non-aggressive manner, or worse, snap back at the person giving the advice.

This is a team game. If someone decides they don't want to press buttons or even attempt to be mentally present in the encounter, that is absolutely not okay.

I have had bad parties before where we wipe 4+ times on a trial and the group falls apart- many times, in fact, as I've been playing off and on since ARR launched (I'm looking at you Steps of Faith pre-nerf). Those do not bother me at all beyond thinking 'well that was annoying'. What DOES bother me is when people intentionally decide to waste other peoples' time.

And there has been a lot of it the last few weeks in duty finder.

Is it that big of a deal? No, not really- I'll just party up with my FC more or do other content. But it IS annoying.

Speaking of trusts;

I wonder when they'll finally admit castrum/praetorium would be better served as either a solo instance or with trusts and take away that roulette. I figure trusts would be easiest to implement (although story wise they'd have to give you like, generic soldiers, but w/e)

I like the huge bonus from that roulette but it's kind of a dumb solution to the problem of the dungeons being super story heavy/long

There was an interview where Yoshida said big changes are coming to MSQ Roulette, so that's what I'm expecting.

Dantezoid posted...

I wonder when they'll finally admit castrum/praetorium would be better served as either a solo instance or with trusts and take away that roulette. I figure trusts would be easiest to implement (although story wise they'd have to give you like, generic soldiers, but w/e)

We already have trusts with generic soldiers.

They suck.

But it would absolutely be the way to go today.

Or go the more complicated route and split those duties into wings.

my hot prediction is they are working behind the scenes on making the entire game 100% solo-able. i think they want to retroactively make every dungeon doable with either trusts or squadron or something new.

idk, maybe that's too unfeasible. i mean, trials in particular would be really hard this way.

but i think they want to, even if it's just a backburner thing or in the brainstorming phase

Dels posted...

my hot prediction is they are working behind the scenes on making the entire game 100% solo-able. i think they want to retroactively make every dungeon doable with either trusts or squadron or something new.

idk, maybe that's too unfeasible. i mean, trials in particular would be really hard this way.

but i think they want to, even if it's just a backburner thing or in the brainstorming phase

I mean there is proof of this in the msq

Didn't FF11 implement something similar?

ffxi trusts can be used actually almost literally anywhere to great effect, outside of late last expansion stuff (and that might be changed by now)

almost every hard hurdle- maat limit break fights, required aht urghan assaults, etc- can be done with trusts and a naked main character

and that has benefitted the game- as a hardcore game requiring party communication and effectivity in its death throes- immensely

14 does not need that just yet. but i think it definitely benefits as an option a lot. ive played since arr and i think i'm very good bu i get tank anxiety, but trust tanking it makes it so easy of an option to take

The constant struggle of respecting Healers who actually use Resuce, and me knowing the mechanics and that I can greed without issue.

There's a cast bar dammit, I know how the boss of Great Gubal Library Hard works!

https://twitter.com/IncorrectFFQTS/status/1474840775456432129

Oh hey job frame pichttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/9/AAcMtoAACvWz.jpg

BTW I just made a Board 8 CWLS for those of us on Primal so hit me up (L'eknif Micheaux on Hyperion)

I'll try and remember to check periodically if you're online when I get on later tonight.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does that acronym mean?

Cross-world linkshell

Thanks! Im on Primal (Lamia), so will def take a look!

Just got a sprout tank suspended mid dungeon because he called the healer a r***** after he pulled way to hard and didn't use any mit.

Feels good!

What do you actually get for leveling trusts, if you don't need to level them to use them?

In ShB there as an achievement + title ("trusted friend")

Great community btw

I mean it was less than 2 minutes between report and suspension, so it's not like people like that stay around for long lol.

PS5 has a trophy for leveling all trusts to 90

UshiromiyaEva posted...

What do you actually get for leveling trusts, if you don't need to level them to use them?

they're slightly stronger than their scenario versions (for an 81 dungeon they'd be 82 instead if you've levelled them, and they do seem to get abilities at even levels as they level up), you have more to choose from (can pick almost anyone), and hitting 80/90 gives you alternate outfits

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/9/7/AAdoZGAACvqJ.jpg
i think not!

sorry lol these things just amuse me

https://twitter.com/CubedOranges/status/1474617506862043137

"......you're welcome, boy."

Estinien is such a bro. Him piledriving the Sister Ra.........I mean, new cannon thing, was super sweet!

Up to MSQ lvl 69, about to do Castrum Abania.

Also, how do I join the linkshell thing?

message a leader, ask for an invite

might ask for an invite later myself, havent played in a couple days because i got RF4 for the third time

Finished P3

All I can think of looking at this dude is "Count Dorkula"

LordoftheMorons posted...

Finished P3

Portable or FES?

Pandaemonium!

FES back when I played that, though.

the board 8 crossworld linkshell has been formed; do one of these to contact us until you get in
/tell Baldr Sky@Hyperion
/tell L'eknif Micheaux@Hyperion

if a red error message appears we're probably either offline or in a duty so just resend it every now and then

tcaz2 posted...

Portable or FES?

gf had portable and ill never forgive her for that