Poll of the Day > Bill Maher came out and said that he thought college was a scam....

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UT1999 10/17/21 7:45:55 PM #1:	...do you agree with him? yes no depends not sure ...do you agree with him? - Results (8 votes) yes 25% (2 votes) 2 no 37.5% (3 votes) 3 depends 37.5% (3 votes) 3 not sure 0% (0 votes) 0 do you agree with him --- "Sometimes they even attack wounded foxes" <cite>UT1999 posted [p:959135989] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote> ...do you agree with him? yes no depends not sure Vote View Results ...do you agree with him? - Results (8 votes) yes 25% (2 votes) 2 no 37.5% (3 votes) 3 depends 37.5% (3 votes) 3 not sure 0% (0 votes) 0 Show Voting Form do you agree with him </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 10/17/21 7:49:21 PM #2:	For a lot of careers, yes. I'd say for most careers it's either a scam or something that the employers traditionally handled on their side. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:959136076] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>For a lot of careers, yes. I'd say for most careers it's either a scam or something that the employers traditionally handled on their side. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wolfy42 10/17/21 7:49:25 PM #3:	It is a scam --- Tacobot 3000 "Saving the world from not having tacos." Friends don't make their friends die Hanz. Psychopathic friends do. <cite>wolfy42 posted [p:959136078] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>It is a scam </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UT1999 10/17/21 7:50:32 PM #4:	Zeus posted... For a lot of careers, yes. I'd say for most careers it's either a scam or something that the employers traditionally handled on their side. yeah i agree, that employers traditionally handled on their side. And a lot of times i don't agree with this poster --- "Sometimes they even attack wounded foxes" <cite>UT1999 posted [p:959136116] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>For a lot of careers, yes. I'd say for most careers it's either a scam or something that the employers traditionally handled on their side.</quote>yeah i agree, that employers traditionally handled on their side. And a lot of times i don't agree with this poster </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReggieTheReckless 10/17/21 7:53:40 PM #5:	It depends on what you want to do and what your career aspirations are <cite>ReggieTheReckless posted [p:959136233] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>It depends on what you want to do and what your career aspirations are </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 10/17/21 7:54:07 PM #6:	Depends If you go to a state/public school for cheap or otherwise have scholarships or such to keep the cost down, it's generally worth going. If you get a degree in a field where college is actually needed (doctor, lawyer, engineer, chemist, etc...) and has good employment prospects, it's generally worth it even if you have to go into debt, to a limit... Plenty of people are needlessly racking up insane student loan debt for worthless degrees just b/c they like the shiny facilities/grounds or because it's a "prestigious" school or whatever, though. I voted depends based on the above, but since it's common to advertise college as a "must" that will definitely lead to a better job/income no matter what you do there, it kinda is. Don't blame him for saying that. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:959136252] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Depends If you go to a state/public school for cheap or otherwise have scholarships or such to keep the cost down, it's generally worth going. If you get a degree in a field where college is actually needed (doctor, lawyer, engineer, chemist, etc...) and has good employment prospects, it's generally worth it even if you have to go into debt, to a limit... Plenty of people are needlessly racking up insane student loan debt for worthless degrees just b/c they like the shiny facilities/grounds or because it's a "prestigious" school or whatever, though. I voted depends based on the above, but since it's common to advertise college as a "must" that will definitely lead to a better job/income no matter what you do there, it kinda is. Don't blame him for saying that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 10/17/21 8:00:59 PM #7:	streamofthesky posted... I voted depends based on the above, but since it's common to advertise college as a "must" that will definitely lead to a better job/income no matter what you do there, it kinda is. Don't blame him for saying that. Pretty much. Bonus points where new graduates struggling with debt are criticized for making poor financial decisions as 17-year-olds that have spent their entire lives being told that college is a necessity if they want to get anywhere. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:959136459] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>I voted depends based on the above, but since it's common to advertise college as a "must" that will definitely lead to a better job/income no matter what you do there, it kinda is. Don't blame him for saying that.</quote> Pretty much. Bonus points where new graduates struggling with debt are criticized for making poor financial decisions as 17-year-olds that have spent their entire lives being told that college is a necessity if they want to get anywhere. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 10/17/21 8:10:07 PM #8:	Saying college is a scam is like saying high school is a scam... you don't go for the learnin', you go for the socials --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:959136736] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Saying college is a scam is like saying high school is a scam... you don't go for the learnin', you go for the socials </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
11110111011 10/17/21 8:18:39 PM #9:	For most careers, yes. If you study most of the arts or humanities it is definitely a scam. There is no career option other than teaching that subject in college. If you are going to school for a real career that requires an advanced degree and is known to have many employment opportunities (engineering, doctor, lawyer, etc) then it is not a scam. <cite>11110111011 posted [p:959137004] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>For most careers, yes. If you study most of the arts or humanities it is definitely a scam. There is no career option other than teaching that subject in college. If you are going to school for a real career that requires an advanced degree and is known to have many employment opportunities (engineering, doctor, lawyer, etc) then it is not a scam. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 10/17/21 8:25:52 PM #10:	Lokarin posted... Saying college is a scam is like saying high school is a scam... you don't go for the learnin', you go for the socials And I did genuinely enjoy the "college experience", hence why I said if you can go for cheap, it's potentially worth it even if your degree is useless. I do think high school is more intrinsically useful. The math and english being taught is still at a relatively basic level that you might actually use in real life. Plus high school is free... adjl posted... Pretty much. Bonus points where new graduates struggling with debt are criticized for making poor financial decisions as 17-year-olds that have spent their entire lives being told that college is a necessity if they want to get anywhere. Nah, I don't buy that. Where are the parents in all of this? NO ONE told these kids what kind of debt they'd go in to attend their "dream" school? Bull shit. And when I was figuring this shit out in high school, I strongly thought of cost. I had the grades to at least have a good chance at an Ivy League or MIT level school, but decided I didn't want the debt. Went w/ my state school for that reason, it had an accredited engineering program, that's what really mattered. There are plenty of state or community college options, but for a lot of students those aren't prestigious or cool enough. My sibling went to a private liberal arts college for a worthless degree just because the campus was beautiful (yes, really) and is still deep in debt. <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:959137205] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Lokarin posted... </cite> <quote>Saying college is a scam is like saying high school is a scam... you don't go for the learnin', you go for the socials</quote>And I did genuinely enjoy the "college experience", hence why I said if you can go for cheap, it's potentially worth it even if your degree is useless. I do think high school is more intrinsically useful. The math and english being taught is still at a relatively basic level that you might actually use in real life. Plus high school is free... adjl posted... </cite> <quote>Pretty much. Bonus points where new graduates struggling with debt are criticized for making poor financial decisions as 17-year-olds that have spent their entire lives being told that college is a necessity if they want to get anywhere.</quote>Nah, I don't buy that. Where are the parents in all of this? NO ONE told these kids what kind of debt they'd go in to attend their "dream" school? Bull shit. And when I was figuring this shit out in high school, I strongly thought of cost. I had the grades to at least have a good chance at an Ivy League or MIT level school, but decided I didn't want the debt. Went w/ my state school for that reason, it had an accredited engineering program, that's what really mattered. There are plenty of state or community college options, but for a lot of students those aren't prestigious or cool enough. My sibling went to a private liberal arts college for a worthless degree just because the campus was beautiful (yes, really) and is still deep in debt. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HornedLion 10/17/21 8:33:10 PM #11:	School is essentially meant to train the masses to wake up early, follow instructions, and stay in a place for 8hrs. All for the benefit of the already rich. The rich receive a completely different kind of education. --- I'm actually really enjoying GodFall. <cite>HornedLion posted [p:959137441] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>School is essentially meant to train the masses to wake up early, follow instructions, and stay in a place for 8hrs. All for the benefit of the already rich. The rich receive a completely different kind of education. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
helIy 10/17/21 8:34:51 PM #12:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AJDcfeOXPA --- i want you, to matter to you forget those backstabbers <cite>helIy posted [p:959137505] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AJDcfeOXPA </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wolfy42 10/17/21 8:37:24 PM #13:	No, college is straight up a scam in the united states. Other places are different, but here it's a straight up money grab, and total scam. The cost to actually teach? Negligible. If you provided school grounds for free (no taxes...like churches), and just paid the administration and professors based on tuition, each student would pay a very small fraction of what they currently do per credit. Students would graduate with a BA with less then 10k in total cost, possibly less then 5k. Instead, look at how much money is made from the education system each year in the US. Billions of dollars. It is a straight up scam. Worse is the student loan system (that income isn't including the interest made off loans). It's bad enough in this country that someone can go to college for 4 years get a BA degree and end up 60k in debt. What is worse is that often they don't get paid much for the first 5 years or so after that (In CA first 5 years as a teacher was 30k with no raises, per year, not even enough to rent a place yourself in the bay area where I lived). Because of the way student loans work, if you don't pay them off right from the start, you end up getting a ton of compounded interest, making a 60k debt in 2015 become a 120k debt in 2020. That should be illegal. The entire system is a scam. --- Tacobot 3000 "Saving the world from not having tacos." Friends don't make their friends die Hanz. Psychopathic friends do. <cite>wolfy42 posted [p:959137590] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>No, college is straight up a scam in the united states. Other places are different, but here it's a straight up money grab, and total scam. The cost to actually teach? Negligible. If you provided school grounds for free (no taxes...like churches), and just paid the administration and professors based on tuition, each student would pay a very small fraction of what they currently do per credit. Students would graduate with a BA with less then 10k in total cost, possibly less then 5k. Instead, look at how much money is made from the education system each year in the US. Billions of dollars. It is a straight up scam. Worse is the student loan system (that income isn't including the interest made off loans). It's bad enough in this country that someone can go to college for 4 years get a BA degree and end up 60k in debt. What is worse is that often they don't get paid much for the first 5 years or so after that (In CA first 5 years as a teacher was 30k with no raises, per year, not even enough to rent a place yourself in the bay area where I lived). Because of the way student loans work, if you don't pay them off right from the start, you end up getting a ton of compounded interest, making a 60k debt in 2015 become a 120k debt in 2020. That should be illegal. The entire system is a scam. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 10/17/21 8:38:44 PM #14:	Largely yes, which is a shame because higher education is a very important thing for a healthy society --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:959137624] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Largely yes, which is a shame because higher education is a very important thing for a healthy society </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 10/17/21 8:45:01 PM #15:	streamofthesky posted... Where are the parents in all of this? NO ONE told these kids what kind of debt they'd go in to attend their "dream" school? Bull shit. No sympathy for first time college attendees in their family? Relying on a "family history" of what is the best path forward to success is failing to help those who need it. --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:959137790] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Where are the parents in all of this? NO ONE told these kids what kind of debt they'd go in to attend their "dream" school? Bull shit.</quote> No sympathy for first time college attendees in their family? Relying on a "family history" of what is the best path forward to success is failing to help those who need it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 10/17/21 8:46:20 PM #16:	streamofthesky posted... My sibling went to a private liberal arts college for a worthless degree What an obnoxious attitude. I can't even --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:959137830] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>My sibling went to a private liberal arts college for a worthless degree</quote> What an obnoxious attitude. I can't even </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PMarth2002 10/17/21 8:52:24 PM #17:	No, just overpriced. --- They have taken untold millions that they never toiled to earn But without our brain and muscle not a single wheel can turn <cite>PMarth2002 posted [p:959138015] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>No, just overpriced. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 10/17/21 8:57:29 PM #18:	Clench281 posted... No sympathy for first time college attendees in their family? Relying on a "family history" of what is the best path forward to success is failing to help those who need it. What does understanding the concept of paying back a loan and that interest compounds have to do w/ having parents that went to college? Especially since boomers didn't even need loans like we do now, it's not like they'd have valuable experience about taking out too much in loans to afford college, anyway. Clench281 posted... What an obnoxious attitude. I can't even Guess that personal anecdote hit too close to home for you... <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:959138164] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Clench281 posted... </cite> <quote>No sympathy for first time college attendees in their family? Relying on a "family history" of what is the best path forward to success is failing to help those who need it.</quote>What does understanding the concept of paying back a loan and that interest compounds have to do w/ having parents that went to college? Especially since boomers didn't even need loans like we do now, it's not like they'd have valuable experience about taking out too much in loans to afford college, anyway. Clench281 posted... </cite> <quote>What an obnoxious attitude. I can't even</quote>Guess that personal anecdote hit too close to home for you... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
rexcrk 10/17/21 9:23:47 PM #19:	wolfy42 posted... No, college is straight up a scam in the united states. Other places are different, but here it's a straight up money grab, and total scam. The cost to actually teach? Negligible. If you provided school grounds for free (no taxes...like churches), and just paid the administration and professors based on tuition, each student would pay a very small fraction of what they currently do per credit. Students would graduate with a BA with less then 10k in total cost, possibly less then 5k. Instead, look at how much money is made from the education system each year in the US. Billions of dollars. It is a straight up scam. Worse is the student loan system (that income isn't including the interest made off loans). It's bad enough in this country that someone can go to college for 4 years get a BA degree and end up 60k in debt. What is worse is that often they don't get paid much for the first 5 years or so after that (In CA first 5 years as a teacher was 30k with no raises, per year, not even enough to rent a place yourself in the bay area where I lived). Because of the way student loans work, if you don't pay them off right from the start, you end up getting a ton of compounded interest, making a 60k debt in 2015 become a 120k debt in 2020. That should be illegal. The entire system is a scam. Pretty much --- Bah weep grannah weep ni ni bon <cite>rexcrk posted [p:959138876] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>wolfy42 posted... </cite> <quote>No, college is straight up a scam in the united states. Other places are different, but here it's a straight up money grab, and total scam. The cost to actually teach? Negligible. If you provided school grounds for free (no taxes...like churches), and just paid the administration and professors based on tuition, each student would pay a very small fraction of what they currently do per credit. Students would graduate with a BA with less then 10k in total cost, possibly less then 5k. Instead, look at how much money is made from the education system each year in the US. Billions of dollars. It is a straight up scam. Worse is the student loan system (that income isn't including the interest made off loans). It's bad enough in this country that someone can go to college for 4 years get a BA degree and end up 60k in debt. What is worse is that often they don't get paid much for the first 5 years or so after that (In CA first 5 years as a teacher was 30k with no raises, per year, not even enough to rent a place yourself in the bay area where I lived). Because of the way student loans work, if you don't pay them off right from the start, you end up getting a ton of compounded interest, making a 60k debt in 2015 become a 120k debt in 2020. That should be illegal. The entire system is a scam.</quote>Pretty much </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DirtBasedSoap 10/17/21 9:27:00 PM #20:	college is mainly a scam because of government subsidies. it really needs to be fixed. --- wieners and farts??? idk lol <cite>DirtBasedSoap posted [p:959138968] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>college is mainly a scam because of government subsidies. it really needs to be fixed. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DirtBasedSoap 10/17/21 9:31:29 PM #21:	Clench281 posted... What an obnoxious attitude. I can't even lmao --- wieners and farts??? idk lol <cite>DirtBasedSoap posted [p:959139089] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Clench281 posted... </cite> <quote>What an obnoxious attitude. I can't even</quote>lmao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kanatteru 10/17/21 9:38:29 PM #22:	11110111011 posted... If you study most of the arts or humanities it is definitely a scam. There is no career option other than teaching that subject in college. what? this is just not true --- despair-inducing \| she/her <cite>Kanatteru posted [p:959139290] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>11110111011 posted... </cite> <quote>If you study most of the arts or humanities it is definitely a scam. There is no career option other than teaching that subject in college.</quote> what? this is just not true </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DragonClaw01 10/17/21 10:02:03 PM #23:	College graduates still have superior long term career earnings compared to those that don't go to college. Yeah, you can always point out the exceptions, but if you play the averages college is still superior. But you can still make good money without going to college as well, so it is not like you are screwed if you don't go to college --- <('.'<) <(^.^)> (>'.')> Splendiferous <cite>DragonClaw01 posted [p:959139931] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>College graduates still have superior long term career earnings compared to those that don't go to college. Yeah, you can always point out the exceptions, but if you play the averages college is still superior. But you can still make good money without going to college as well, so it is not like you are screwed if you don't go to college </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Monopoman 10/17/21 10:03:05 PM #24:	The vast majority of people going to college are not chasing the best majors for a future job. So for those people it's a scam, sure if someone is going to major in Chemistry or try to become a Nurse or a Doctor, college is exactly where they should be. I also think for about the last 20 years parents freak out if their child says they don't want to attend college, so you get a lot of kids going into college and then just majoring in something they can easily handle. Trying to become say a Nurse is a far more intense and tough process than having a major in something like women's studies. <cite>Monopoman posted [p:959139966] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>The vast majority of people going to college are not chasing the best majors for a future job. So for those people it's a scam, sure if someone is going to major in Chemistry or try to become a Nurse or a Doctor, college is exactly where they should be. I also think for about the last 20 years parents freak out if their child says they don't want to attend college, so you get a lot of kids going into college and then just majoring in something they can easily handle. Trying to become say a Nurse is a far more intense and tough process than having a major in something like women's studies. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
streamofthesky 10/17/21 10:29:13 PM #25:	DragonClaw01 posted... College graduates still have superior long term career earnings compared to those that don't go to college. Yeah, you can always point out the exceptions, but if you play the averages college is still superior. But you can still make good money without going to college as well, so it is not like you are screwed if you don't go to college I do wonder how much of that may fall into "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Like, for one thing, obviously the STEM and law degrees and such are pushing up the average for the wage comparison of "degree vs. no degree". Also, it's kind of a chicken and egg situation... The people who excel in school tend to go to college. Would they have been noticeably less successful if they hadn't gone to college (for careers where you don't need really need a degree to do the job)? Has there ever been a true apples to apples study of lifetime earnings, comparing people by similar levels of high school GPA who skipped college vs went to college and got a "liberal arts" degree? I'm skeptical with such constraints in place, that the difference would be that pronounced... <cite>streamofthesky posted [p:959140614] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>DragonClaw01 posted... </cite> <quote>College graduates still have superior long term career earnings compared to those that don't go to college. Yeah, you can always point out the exceptions, but if you play the averages college is still superior. But you can still make good money without going to college as well, so it is not like you are screwed if you don't go to college</quote>I do wonder how much of that may fall into "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Like, for one thing, obviously the STEM and law degrees and such are pushing up the average for the wage comparison of "degree vs. no degree". Also, it's kind of a chicken and egg situation... The people who excel in school tend to go to college. Would they have been noticeably less successful if they hadn't gone to college (for careers where you don't need really need a degree to do the job)? Has there ever been a true apples to apples study of lifetime earnings, comparing people by similar levels of high school GPA who skipped college vs went to college and got a "liberal arts" degree? I'm skeptical with such constraints in place, that the difference would be that pronounced... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zareth 10/17/21 10:46:22 PM #26:	Much of it is, yes. Especially textbooks. Literally just there for the schools to make more money. "You can't use the older edition of this Math textbook, didn't you know how much Math has changed in the past couple years?" --- In my opinion, all slavery is wrong, even the really fancy kind - Mead <cite>Zareth posted [p:959141062] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Much of it is, yes. Especially textbooks. Literally just there for the schools to make more money. "You can't use the older edition of this Math textbook, didn't you know how much Math has changed in the past couple years?" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
faramir77 10/17/21 10:49:40 PM #27:	A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. It wasn't a scam. I've been fortunate that I've been able to do things with my degrees. But even if I wasn't, it wouldn't have been a scam. The education I received can't be taken from me. --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk -- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. -- <cite>faramir77 posted [p:959141157] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. It wasn't a scam. I've been fortunate that I've been able to do things with my degrees. But even if I wasn't, it wouldn't have been a scam. The education I received can't be taken from me. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DirtBasedSoap 10/17/21 10:50:30 PM #28:	faramir77 posted... A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. youre arguing semantics --- wieners and farts??? idk lol <cite>DirtBasedSoap posted [p:959141191] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>faramir77 posted... </cite> <quote>A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees.</quote> youre arguing semantics </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 10/17/21 10:55:04 PM #29:	faramir77 posted... A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. It wasn't a scam. I've been fortunate that I've been able to do things with my degrees. But even if I wasn't, it wouldn't have been a scam. The education I received can't be taken from me. I dunno man, youre saying some pretty dumb things so maybe they did --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:959141328] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>faramir77 posted... </cite> <quote>A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. It wasn't a scam. I've been fortunate that I've been able to do things with my degrees. But even if I wasn't, it wouldn't have been a scam. The education I received can't be taken from me.</quote> I dunno man, youre saying some pretty dumb things so maybe they did </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
faramir77 10/17/21 11:06:08 PM #30:	DirtBasedSoap posted... youre arguing semantics Okay fair Mead posted... I dunno man, youre saying some pretty dumb things so maybe they did "I disagree" is a healthier way to communicate than being an asshole Mead --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk -- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. -- <cite>faramir77 posted [p:959141663] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>DirtBasedSoap posted... </cite> <quote>youre arguing semantics</quote> Okay fair Mead posted... </cite> <quote>I dunno man, youre saying some pretty dumb things so maybe they did</quote> "I disagree" is a healthier way to communicate than being an asshole Mead </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Conner4REAL 10/17/21 11:22:16 PM #31:	this does depend on the field you are going into. It has become a scam, in a sense that the value of a college education isnt even close to what it should be and used to be. Its basically in and of itself the value equivalent of what a high school education was decades ago. but at the same time it is not. in a sense that even if the value of a college education alone isnt likely worth the cost of it, your employment Options will be severely limited without it. it has real world complications. But its not like every employer in America got together and consciously set standards. now a masters degree is for many what college was. of course this excludes those careers where a college degree is a stepping stone for a professional license which will boost the overall value like a doctor. --- "I pet my dog I don't eat it" ~ Lemone <cite>Conner4REAL posted [p:959142059] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>this does depend on the field you are going into. It has become a scam, in a sense that the value of a college education isnt even close to what it should be and used to be. Its basically in and of itself the value equivalent of what a high school education was decades ago. but at the same time it is not. in a sense that even if the value of a college education alone isnt likely worth the cost of it, your employment Options will be severely limited without it. it has real world complications. But its not like every employer in America got together and consciously set standards. now a masters degree is for many what college was. of course this excludes those careers where a college degree is a stepping stone for a professional license which will boost the overall value like a doctor. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 10/17/21 11:22:45 PM #32:	UT1999 posted... And a lot of times i don't agree with this poster Oh lawdy. Lokarin posted... Saying college is a scam is like saying high school is a scam... you don't go for the learnin', you go for the socials That's not comparable for any number of reasons, including the fact that high school is compulsory (up to a certain age) and "free" to the extent that it comes from taxes no matter what. streamofthesky posted... I do think high school is more intrinsically useful. The math and english being taught is still at a relatively basic level that you might actually use in real life. Plus high school is free... Also this. 1-12 tends to focus more on essentials, and those are going to be more broadly useful. I'd say that the scales begin to drop a little around middle school -- since, by then, most of the practical stuff is out of the way -- but high school is still arguably more valuable on a general knowledge basis than college streamofthesky posted... Nah, I don't buy that. Where are the parents in all of this? NO ONE told these kids what kind of debt they'd go in to attend their "dream" school? Bull shit. And when I was figuring this shit out in high school, I strongly thought of cost. I had the grades to at least have a good chance at an Ivy League or MIT level school, but decided I didn't want the debt. Went w/ my state school for that reason, it had an accredited engineering program, that's what really mattered. There are plenty of state or community college options, but for a lot of students those aren't prestigious or cool enough. My sibling went to a private liberal arts college for a worthless degree just because the campus was beautiful (yes, really) and is still deep in debt. Pretty much. I might have been able to make it into an Ivy League school, but I realized the ROI wasn't where it needed to be. faramir77 posted... A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. It wasn't a scam. I've been fortunate that I've been able to do things with my degrees. But even if I wasn't, it wouldn't have been a scam. The education I received can't be taken from me. All colleges individually and collectively make sets of promises regarding outcomes, and in the most galling cases they creatively interpret or outright falsify graduate data. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:959142075] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>UT1999 posted... </cite> <quote>And a lot of times i don't agree with this poster</quote> Oh lawdy. Lokarin posted... </cite> <quote>Saying college is a scam is like saying high school is a scam... you don't go for the learnin', you go for the socials</quote> That's not comparable for any number of reasons, including the fact that high school is compulsory (up to a certain age) and "free" to the extent that it comes from taxes no matter what. streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>I do think high school is more intrinsically useful. The math and english being taught is still at a relatively basic level that you might actually use in real life. Plus high school is free...</quote> Also this. 1-12 tends to focus more on essentials, and those are going to be more broadly useful. I'd say that the scales begin to drop a little around middle school -- since, by then, most of the practical stuff is out of the way -- but high school is still arguably more valuable on a general knowledge basis than college streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Nah, I don't buy that. Where are the parents in all of this? NO ONE told these kids what kind of debt they'd go in to attend their "dream" school? Bull shit. And when I was figuring this shit out in high school, I strongly thought of cost. I had the grades to at least have a good chance at an Ivy League or MIT level school, but decided I didn't want the debt. Went w/ my state school for that reason, it had an accredited engineering program, that's what really mattered. There are plenty of state or community college options, but for a lot of students those aren't prestigious or cool enough. My sibling went to a private liberal arts college for a worthless degree just because the campus was beautiful (yes, really) and is still deep in debt.</quote> Pretty much. I might have been able to make it into an Ivy League school, but I realized the ROI wasn't where it needed to be. faramir77 posted... </cite> <quote>A scam is where you are promised a reward, but the reward doesn't happen and instead you get screwed. My university didn't promise me jack shit, aside from my degrees. It wasn't a scam. I've been fortunate that I've been able to do things with my degrees. But even if I wasn't, it wouldn't have been a scam. The education I received can't be taken from me.</quote> All colleges individually and collectively make sets of promises regarding outcomes, and in the most galling cases they creatively interpret or outright falsify graduate data. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 10/17/21 11:25:28 PM #33:	faramir77 posted... "I disagree" is a healthier way to communicate than being an asshole Mead I disagree --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:959142140] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>faramir77 posted... </cite> <quote>"I disagree" is a healthier way to communicate than being an asshole Mead</quote> I disagree </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
faramir77 10/17/21 11:28:32 PM #34:	Mead posted... I disagree Alright, that was funny. Well played Mead. --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk -- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. -- <cite>faramir77 posted [p:959142235] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>I disagree</quote> Alright, that was funny. Well played Mead. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DragonClaw01 10/18/21 12:04:29 AM #35:	streamofthesky posted... I do wonder how much of that may fall into "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Like, for one thing, obviously the STEM and law degrees and such are pushing up the average for the wage comparison of "degree vs. no degree". Also, it's kind of a chicken and egg situation... The people who excel in school tend to go to college. Would they have been noticeably less successful if they hadn't gone to college (for careers where you don't need really need a degree to do the job)? Has there ever been a true apples to apples study of lifetime earnings, comparing people by similar levels of high school GPA who skipped college vs went to college and got a "liberal arts" degree? I'm skeptical with such constraints in place, that the difference would be that pronounced... That is true, but on the flip side you also have people in the trades that are pushing up the average for people that didn't go to college. There are a lot of horrible jobs for non-college grads. For every successful electrician or plummer you have several fry cooks and retail associates. Plus even if you are in the trades, you still are sacrificing your body. Generally, the better the pay, the more dangerous, dirty & detrimental it tends to be. As for the question, from my observation blue collar jobs tend to pay more to start, but reach thier cap earlier. White collar jobs give you more levels to rise up, so end up paying more in the long run at the expense of dealing with more career bullshit and a really shitty abusive career start. People that enter solo practice for white collar professions tend to make more. I have seen electricians who own thier own business that make $250,000 a year, but I have seen white collar professionals that own thier business make over a million a year, although people that start thier business are hardly the average, so don't make really good comparisons. --- <('.'<) <(^.^)> (>'.')> Splendiferous <cite>DragonClaw01 posted [p:959143209] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>I do wonder how much of that may fall into "lies, damned lies, and statistics". Like, for one thing, obviously the STEM and law degrees and such are pushing up the average for the wage comparison of "degree vs. no degree". Also, it's kind of a chicken and egg situation... The people who excel in school tend to go to college. Would they have been noticeably less successful if they hadn't gone to college (for careers where you don't need really need a degree to do the job)? Has there ever been a true apples to apples study of lifetime earnings, comparing people by similar levels of high school GPA who skipped college vs went to college and got a "liberal arts" degree? I'm skeptical with such constraints in place, that the difference would be that pronounced...</quote>That is true, but on the flip side you also have people in the trades that are pushing up the average for people that didn't go to college. There are a lot of horrible jobs for non-college grads. For every successful electrician or plummer you have several fry cooks and retail associates. Plus even if you are in the trades, you still are sacrificing your body. Generally, the better the pay, the more dangerous, dirty & detrimental it tends to be. As for the question, from my observation blue collar jobs tend to pay more to start, but reach thier cap earlier. White collar jobs give you more levels to rise up, so end up paying more in the long run at the expense of dealing with more career bullshit and a really shitty abusive career start. People that enter solo practice for white collar professions tend to make more. I have seen electricians who own thier own business that make $250,000 a year, but I have seen white collar professionals that own thier business make over a million a year, although people that start thier business are hardly the average, so don't make really good comparisons. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wpot 10/18/21 12:15:24 AM #36:	The idea of college is good. Buuuut... 1) The economics of attending are broken. It should be a test of knowledge (and, yes, dedication) but NOT resources or connections. Research focus, college sports, building mania, etc etc...there are many things broken regarding cost. 2) The demand for true expertise (the specialty of college) is low. How many jobs TRULY expect college grads to know anything anymore? In my opinion not many. 3) ...because instruction has become less practical. The American education system from top to bottom needs to do a better job of focusing and getting people on paths for types of jobs earlier so we stop wasting so much time. Broad education is fine, but not at the cost we're paying for it in time and money. 80% of the things being taught are rather irrelevant in the long run. 4) Remote-style college (post-COVID) is particularly pointless: you lose all of the independence/connections that are inherent to going somewhere. Etc etc etc. --- Pronounced "Whup-pot". Say it. Use it. <cite>wpot posted [p:959143446] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>The idea of college is good. Buuuut... 1) The economics of attending are broken. It should be a test of knowledge (and, yes, dedication) but NOT resources or connections. Research focus, college sports, building mania, etc etc...there are many things broken regarding cost. 2) The demand for true expertise (the specialty of college) is low. How many jobs TRULY expect college grads to know anything anymore? In my opinion not many. 3) ...because instruction has become less practical. The American education system from top to bottom needs to do a better job of focusing and getting people on paths for types of jobs earlier so we stop wasting so much time. Broad education is fine, but not at the cost we're paying for it in time and money. 80% of the things being taught are rather irrelevant in the long run. 4) Remote-style college (post-COVID) is particularly pointless: you lose all of the independence/connections that are inherent to going somewhere. Etc etc etc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dark_SilverX 10/18/21 12:35:57 AM #37:	wolfy42 posted... It is a scam This. --- Let's go Brandon! don't compare games to feces -- if you've an opinion worth mentioning, do so civilly <cite>Dark_SilverX posted [p:959143825] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>wolfy42 posted... </cite> <quote>It is a scam</quote>This. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 10/18/21 2:04:56 AM #38:	Went with depends. It isn't colleges/universities that are necessarily the problem. Capitalism creates the current pay-for-play system. It's inherent. --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:959145352] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Went with depends. It isn't colleges/universities that are necessarily the problem. Capitalism creates the current pay-for-play system. It's inherent. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 10/18/21 2:06:55 AM #39:	I disagree with "Remote-style college is particularly pointless". Certain classes absolutely should be in person, but the time/cost savings of being in an online class when it doesn't need to be 'in class' is a win-win. I definitely didn't prefer 'all-online', but my technology program went with a blended approach this year and it's great. It's still an expensive sham, but at least I don't have to drool at a desk while some idiot prof rambles. I can go make a coffee. --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:959145385] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>I disagree with "Remote-style college is particularly pointless". Certain classes absolutely should be in person, but the time/cost savings of being in an online class when it doesn't need to be 'in class' is a win-win. I definitely didn't prefer 'all-online', but my technology program went with a blended approach this year and it's great. It's still an expensive sham, but at least I don't have to drool at a desk while some idiot prof rambles. I can go make a coffee. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ReturnOfFa 10/18/21 2:07:47 AM #40:	Bill Maher is a rich neoliberal milquetoast provocateur. Also, nobody puts it better than Norm. https://youtu.be/1tzT-E3GWmc --- girls like my fa <cite>ReturnOfFa posted [p:959145399] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Bill Maher is a rich neoliberal milquetoast provocateur. Also, nobody puts it better than Norm. https://youtu.be/1tzT-E3GWmc </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Llamachama 10/18/21 6:08:55 AM #41:	The experience is not. Paying for it is. --- Strong people stand up for themselves. Stronger people stand up for others. https://imgur.com/AoImPRn <cite>Llamachama posted [p:959148007] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>The experience is not. Paying for it is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 10/18/21 6:59:52 AM #42:	streamofthesky posted... Guess that personal anecdote hit too close to home for you... I'm a total STEMlord bro, so you're not 'hitting close to' anywhere with your anecdotes Your attitude reeks of insecurity --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:959148531] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote> streamofthesky posted... </cite> <quote>Guess that personal anecdote hit too close to home for you...</quote> I'm a total STEMlord bro, so you're not 'hitting close to' anywhere with your anecdotes Your attitude reeks of insecurity </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 10/18/21 7:05:22 AM #43:	It's also funny that ten years have passed and people are still making the same statements that basically just show they don't know what "liberal arts" even means in terms of an education. Like y'all have had a decade to figure out what you're trying to say and still you get it wrong --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:959148582] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>It's also funny that ten years have passed and people are still making the same statements that basically just show they don't know what "liberal arts" even means in terms of an education. Like y'all have had a decade to figure out what you're trying to say and still you get it wrong </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 10/18/21 7:11:41 AM #44:	its still funny that to me that they lose their minds when they see a woman with dyed hair and black rimmed glasses --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:959148660] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>its still funny that to me that they lose their minds when they see a woman with dyed hair and black rimmed glasses </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dikitain 10/18/21 7:32:58 AM #45:	Unless you are going into STEM, law, or (MAYBE) business you don't need college. Everything else could either be done with certifications or apprenticeship. Both of which you should be getting a percentage of your total pay while earning. There is no reason to go into $100K in debt to get an art degree. --- After 16 years, I have decided my signature will NOT be about my job! But I still don't know what to put here so...yea... <cite>Dikitain posted [p:959148906] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Unless you are going into STEM, law, or (MAYBE) business you don't need college. Everything else could either be done with certifications or apprenticeship. Both of which you should be getting a percentage of your total pay while earning. There is no reason to go into $100K in debt to get an art degree. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 10/18/21 7:35:12 AM #46:	Dikitain posted... There is no reason to go into $100K in debt to get an art degree. yet many young people are encouraged to do exactly that --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:959148932] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Dikitain posted... </cite> <quote>There is no reason to go into $100K in debt to get an art degree.</quote> yet many young people are encouraged to do exactly that </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wpot 10/18/21 9:13:27 AM #47:	ReturnOfFa posted... but at least I don't have to drool at a desk while some idiot prof rambles. Well...that leads into my point: the classes are irrelevant more often than not. If you're not getting anything out of them there are only two possible reasons to be there: 1) The degree gets you access to something so you have to sit there 2) Broader campus life with its independence and new experiences is valuable Those are both fine reasons and #1 could be enough for you, but remote does away with #2. Convenient, yes. A good method for personal growth? Not really IMO. --- Pronounced "Whup-pot". Say it. Use it. <cite>wpot posted [p:959150625] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>ReturnOfFa posted... </cite> <quote>but at least I don't have to drool at a desk while some idiot prof rambles.</quote>Well...that leads into my point: the classes are irrelevant more often than not. If you're not getting anything out of them there are only two possible reasons to be there: 1) The degree gets you access to something so you have to sit there 2) Broader campus life with its independence and new experiences is valuable Those are both fine reasons and #1 could be enough for you, but remote does away with #2. Convenient, yes. A good method for personal growth? Not really IMO. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 10/18/21 9:28:24 AM #48:	Education shouldnt be part of capitalism. Same with healthcare. --- my resting temp can easily be in the 90's -Krazy_Kirby <cite>Mead posted [p:959150941] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Education shouldnt be part of capitalism. Same with healthcare. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 10/18/21 9:30:21 AM #49:	Mead posted... Education shouldnt be part of capitalism. Same with healthcare. Here's the thing... they AREN'T part of capitalism. Capitalism requires competition and they are wholly monopolies. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:959150989] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>Education shouldnt be part of capitalism. Same with healthcare.</quote> Here's the thing... they AREN'T part of capitalism. Capitalism requires competition and they are wholly monopolies. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BUMPED2002 10/18/21 9:38:06 AM #50:	College is a scam and if you know history, Thomas Jefferson said: "We need people to have 3 years of compulsory education then we'll select the rubbish from the geniuses" In the early 20th century, Woodrow Wilson said: We want one class of persons to have a liberal education (college), and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class of necessity in every society, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks. In the 1990s Former Drug Czar and Secretary of Education Bill Bennet said on a Sunday morning talk show: "If they all go to college, who's going to scrub the floor, empty the bedpans, and do the manual labor, if they all go to college" Needless to say these 3 men had one mindset and that was they embodied the ideals of America's beginning that lasted until 1865. --- SpankageBros <cite>BUMPED2002 posted [p:959151164] in Bill Maher... [t:79715750]...</cite> <quote>College is a scam and if you know history, Thomas Jefferson said: "We need people to have 3 years of compulsory education then we'll select the rubbish from the geniuses" In the early 20th century, Woodrow Wilson said: We want one class of persons to have a liberal education (college), and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class of necessity in every society, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks. In the 1990s Former Drug Czar and Secretary of Education Bill Bennet said on a Sunday morning talk show: "If they all go to college, who's going to scrub the floor, empty the bedpans, and do the manual labor, if they all go to college" Needless to say these 3 men had one mindset and that was they embodied the ideals of America's beginning that lasted until 1865. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > Bill Maher came out and said that he thought college was a scam.... (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > Bill Maher came out and said that he thought college was a scam....