Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 373: T Party Republicans

(+) Yeah! (+)

(beyond that, I have no idea what you are accusing me of gaslighting. I thought my comments were pretty direct)

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what are the regulations for demolishing a topic again

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Absolute (value) refers to the distance between a point and 0.

In this case, is Joe Biden truthful or not?

And the answer is no.


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Peak Board 8 is going to the dictionary to settle an argument only to then disagree about what the definition means.

(FWIW I think I'm with red here -- that definition is not saying what you think it is. In fact I don't even think that definition applies here at all.)

We should obviously want non-liar presidents but lmfao I'm not holding my breath.

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What, do you think fuming was saying absolute to mean the pinnacle or something?

Thats not even listed in the definitions!

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What, do you think fuming was saying absolute to mean the pinnacle or something?

Thats not even listed in the definitions!

... it's literally the first entry in your screenshot

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If I'm being 100% honest I feel like "absolute liar" applies better to Biden than Trump because the phrase I'd use to describe Trump is "detached from reality". Like Biden is infamous for lying, but Trump does it so much and so frequently that it feels like a different level than just lying.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

... it's literally the first entry in your screenshot

We are wildly disagreeing over semantics here.

I see absolute to mean this (the same it means in math): With no equivocation or waffling, does Joe Biden cross the threshold to be a liar, Yes/No.

And in Joe Bidens case, it is absolute that he is a liar.

You wanna talk quantity, or hello quality, thats a different discussion.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Absolute (value) refers to the distance between a point and 0.

In this case, is Joe Biden truthful or not?

And the answer is no.

...Does this mean that anyone who has ever told any kind of lie is a liar?

This brings me back to "objectively who isn't [a liar]?"

because if you're going to die on that hill that's a pretty useless definition imo

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by that definition literally every human being is an "absolute liar"

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GuessMyUserName posted...

by that definition literally every human being is an "absolute liar"

Nah.

just every human being above the age of like 2.

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xp1337 posted...

...Does this mean that anyone who has ever told any kind of lie is a liar?

This brings me back to "objectively who isn't [a liar]?"

because if you're going to die on that hill that's a pretty useless definition imo

Very good B8 post.

Lets just put it this way: Is there anyone here who thinks Joe Biden is not a liar? If not, who else is not a liar, and how many totally fabricated lies would put them over the edge?

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xp1337 posted...

Nah.

just every human being above the age of like 2.

You clearly don't have kids.

They lie waaaaaaay before 2.

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dammit you caught me in an absolute lie

also animals can lie too so that might be an absolute lie by omission whoops

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Ok so we went from calling all our Presidents liars is QAnon shit to everyone is a liar.

Great stuff.

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Tony is an absolute liar, and I think we all can agree that we want better posters than that in this topic.
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If your intent was to say "like every human, both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have told a lie at least once during the course of there lives" then.... Sure?

But also why waste the time to make that post. It is a waste of your life to type it and a waste of our lives to read it if thatwas your intent.

The only context with which it even makes sense for you to bother posting that sentence is if there was "intent to equivocate" because the alternative that you are presenting may as well have been an empty post. That is what everyone was reacting to.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

We are wildly disagreeing over semantics here.

There is nothing semantic here. You are just wrong.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Very good B8 post.

Thank you, I try - occasionally.

Biden is a liar in the sense that I'm pretty sure I'd classify every state and national politician a liar. Biden might be on the higher end there re: plagiarism but politics is basically a profession in which you are going to lie.

However, while Biden may be on the higher end of the spectrum (and to be entirely honest I feel like the modern GOP is actually rushing over to that side so fast it might actually make Biden looks a bit better in relative terms. Still would be high-end on the Dem scale though), Trump is like... so far over the spectrum that it broke physically, mentally, and emotionally. They are not comparable unless you just arbitrarily cap it in the same way if you capped differentiating the decibel system at like 40 dB and then claimed that a conversational tone, chainsaw, and jet engine were all on the same level of "loud" because they're all above that artificial cap. Like, okay, if you contort yourself to define it that way that's not incorrect but it's now an entirely useless definition and absolutely no one in general/casual conversation operates under those parameters.

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This is possibly the dumbest argument I have seen in this politics series and thats really saying something

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masterplum posted...

This is possibly the dumbest argument I have seen in this politics series and thats really saying something

We've done worse. Trust me.

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i mean it is very semantic but in a literal "we disagree about what a word means" way and not "you're misconstruing my point" way ever since he doubled down and posted a dictionary screenshot

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(Its ok to be both not happy Biden is not following through with promises and realize his quantity and magnitude of lies are not in the same stratosphere as Trumps)

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Again FWIW, my take on this is that they are both absolutely (read: certainly, unquestionably, unconditionally) liars and that that doesn't imply they lie equally often or that they tell equally large lies, because it's obvious that Trump lies more often and more outrageously. I have no issue with fuming's post I just don't think the philosophical definition of "absolute" is meaningful here.

Ideally we'd have non-liar presidents but again lmao.

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Kenri posted...

Again FWIW, my take on this is that they are both absolutely (read: certainly, unquestionably, unconditionally) liars and that that doesn't imply they lie equally often or that they tell equally large lies, because it's obvious that Trump lies more often and more outrageously. I have no issue with fuming's post I just don't think the philosophical definition of "absolute" is meaningful here.

Ideally we'd have non-liar presidents but again lmao.

Indeed. It boils down to politicians know they have to say things people want to hear to get elected. I wish that wasnt the case, but I think thats a downside to democracy not a specific person

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masterplum posted...

Indeed.

i think you mean

absolutely

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Kenri posted...

Again FWIW, my take on this is that they are both absolutely (read: certainly, unquestionably, unconditionally) liars and that that doesn't imply they lie equally often or that they tell equally large lies, because it's obvious that Trump lies more often and more outrageously. I have no issue with fuming's post I just don't think the philosophical definition of "absolute" is meaningful here.

Ideally we'd have non-liar presidents but again lmao.

If this is your take, how and why do you agree with Red?

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Calling Biden a 'liar' is disingenuous in the sense that it implies he's more of a liar than the average politician, or is at ALL comparable to the level of a liar that Trump was. Like, let's have some perspective here.

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Biden is in fact more of a liar than the average politician.

Donald Trump is just sooooooooooooo far out there that our comparisons are out of whack.

If you throw out Trump as an outlier, as far as Democratic Politicians go, Biden is legitimately near the top, and I know people are going to have a problem with this, but if you disagree, Id ask you to just Google for 5 minutes before unloading on me.

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Tony, you are literally going hard on "what he said wasn't what he meant" to defend someone accused of QAnon-like behavior. You are a treasure.
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One Biden always lies
One Biden always tells the truth
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kevwaffles posted...

Tony, you are literally going hard on "what he said wasn't what he meant" to defend someone accused of QAnon-like behavior. You are a treasure.

I just thinking comparing someone to fuckin QAnon over calling JOE BIDEN a liar is obscene.

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I mean did Biden fulfill any of his campaign promises yet? I'd call that an absolute liar- as in, a person that has lied about everything they were gonna do.

I didn't say calling Joe Biden a liar makes you QAnon brain.

But if you put his level of lying on the same level of Trump, I maintain you are living in a QAnon adjacent reality.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I just thinking comparing someone to fuckin QAnon over calling JOE BIDEN a liar is obscene.

red13n posted...

But if you put his level of lying on the same level of Trump, I maintain you are living in a QAnon adjacent reality.

Both of these statements are simultaneously true. This discussion is stupid.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

I mean did Biden fulfill any of his campaign promises yet? I'd call that an absolute liar- as in, a person that has lied about everything they were gonna do.

Yes, he has.

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

I mean did Biden fulfill any of his campaign promises yet? I'd call that an absolute liar- as in, a person that has lied about everything they were gonna do.

... We are 4 months into a 48 month term. What the hell

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

I mean did Biden fulfill any of his campaign promises yet? I'd call that an absolute liar- as in, a person that has lied about everything they were gonna do.

Yeah it's too bad we still left the WHO.
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a reminder what 2021 politician lies are like

https://twitter.com/bryrsmith/status/1394470243544838151

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

I mean did Biden fulfill any of his campaign promises yet? I'd call that an absolute liar- as in, a person that has lied about everything they were gonna do.

If you say you're gonna do something, and you don't do it in literally the first two hours of the day, you are an absolute liar that lied about everything you were gonna do.

You ARE Biden

Enjoy

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Kenri posted...

Again FWIW, my take on this is that they are both absolutely (read: certainly, unquestionably, unconditionally) liars and that that doesn't imply they lie equally often or that they tell equally large lies, because it's obvious that Trump lies more often and more outrageously. I have no issue with fuming's post I just don't think the philosophical definition of "absolute" is meaningful here.

Ideally we'd have non-liar presidents but again lmao.

I agree with this and my entire point was that "its troubling people voted for a liar" is a weird comment since everybody in every vote has basically always voted for a liar- it isn't something anyone has been holding as a standard for politicians in anytime I can recall. and like Tony said, Biden and Trump were particularly notorious liars, even if not equivalent in that regard. People are voting based on many things, but "honesty" sure isn't one of them, because there is no punishment for lying when the only other option is supporting the party you don't align with in the real reasons you vote (self interest, ideology, how others in your society are treated , etc)

But it's been months not days and he's literally said no I'm doing things I promised suck one I'm the president now what are you gonna do

But he has done things?

Reversed Trump's ban on transgender members in the military.

Has made major progress on the children held by ICE/DHS at the border. (Again, once the gears of bureaucracy got moving the number went down 75% in a month. It's not done until that number is zero but he has unquestionably got things moving in the right direction.)

Ordered that DOJ not renew any contracts with private prisons on the federal level

Lowkey he also formed that commission to look into SCOTUS reform (but we all know any action on that is beyond dead on arrival in the Senate)

Since the Senate failed to muster the courage to do anything with the filibuster and Manchin and Sinema don't believe in it - Biden did all he could do and ordered that any company that contracts with the federal government have a $15 minimum wage and in the future indexed to CPI.

Like, no doubt he hasn't gotten around to everything obviously. And he surely will abandon some of them I'm sure. Just as others will fail to materialize because they require the Senate to actually do something and Manchin or Sinema will fuck it up (in much the same way that, had Sanders won, M4A would be a "lie" because the Senate would fuck it up too) but Biden has 100% done things he has promised and/or done what is in his power to the extent he can when Congress has fucked its end up.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

If this is your take, how and why do you agree with Red?

I only agree with him insofar as we both think you had the wrong definition of absolute, lol

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

We are wildly disagreeing over semantics here.

I see absolute to mean this (the same it means in math): With no equivocation or waffling, does Joe Biden cross the threshold to be a liar, Yes/No.

And in Joe Bidens case, it is absolute that he is a liar.

You wanna talk quantity, or hello quality, thats a different discussion.

Kenri posted...

Again FWIW, my take on this is that they are both absolutely (read: certainly, unquestionably, unconditionally) liars and that that doesn't imply they lie equally often or that they tell equally large lies,

Im not trying to argue Im genuinely confused, your definition seems the same as mine?


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StealThisSheen posted...

If you say you're gonna do something, and you don't do it in literally the first two hours of the day, you are an absolute liar that lied about everything you were gonna do.

You ARE Biden

Enjoy

No John you are the Bidens

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im not trying to argue Im genuinely confused, your definition seems the same as mine?

The definition you posted in post 391 is the philosophical sense of "absolute", like absolute morals vs moral relativity. My take is that that isn't applicable to a statement like "they're both absolute liars" which is just using it in the more casual sense.

If we use wiktionary ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/absolute ) which I feel does a better job distinguishing between the two, it's like definition 5 (one of several regular ass uses for the word) vs. 7 (narrow philosophical use)

I don't know if I'm explaining this effectively. I don't really think you're wrong about Biden, in any case. Maybe singling him out semi-unfairly but not wrong.

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...This is like the quintessential distillation of Poe's law on Confederate Monument Defense apologists' "If we remove the statues we'll forget the history!!!"

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1397210401864093709

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*edit* i'd rather this not be a top of the page post without quoting the source being responded to

xp1337 posted...

...This is like the quintessential distillation of Poe's law on Confederate Monument Defense apologists' "If we remove the statues we'll forget the history!!!"

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1397210401864093709

i mean if that's the defence for not taking them down... what's the argument for not putting up new Hitler statues? My city has no Hitler statue, so don't we then need one to "teach others about who they are and what they did"?

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https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1397233819690930192?s=21

For fucks sake

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