Board 8 > So my relationship is over...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

If they are that poor, they can get free counsel though.

kevwaffles posted...

That's only for public defenders regarding criminal proceedings. Even I know that.

kevwaffles posted...

Dude, the key parts of that sentence are "if you qualify" and "free to you".

"If you qualify" = Just because they'll represent you doesn't mean this sentence applies to you. In fact it's more likely it doesn't.

"Free to you" = They're going into this anticipating that someone is paying for it, just not you.

If they are that poor. If you qualify.

Free counsel. Free to you.

Like, you said it only happens in criminal defense cases. It literally outright states you are wrong.

I won't respond again because you just want attention and argument at this point. You can obviously see you stated only in criminal defense cases. You can also obviously see that it states you could have free representation if certain qualifiers are met.

I mean, it's just laughable from my end to know that you are arguing against people who work in the literal court house I have first hand talked to. But, hey, I understand you aren't privy to that. I don't hold that against you. I do hold it against you that you cannot see what you yourself wrote and what something literally outright tells you though. Whatever.

Won't get another response from me regarding it.

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Sure thing, Corrik.

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Sweet my Series X got moved up from June 9th to this Monday on Delivery. Also, have a date with this girl on next Sunday. She is even more liberal than I thought which is hard to believe. She seems like a really nice girl though. We will see where it goes.

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Also, on a side note, I was legally advised that if I had called the cops on my ex the night she stole my phone, was physically pushing me, and calling me a ***** over and over while blacked out drunk that I likely could have had been granted emergency custody then and possibly could have had a solid case for keeping better than 50/50 custody in a court case. I ain't like that though.

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Long term custody is one thing, but I do not understand why someone wouldn't want to get their kid away from the scenario you have presented to us while its happening.

Don't worry, though. I'm sure whatever reasoning you have is perfect. You don't even have to explain it I'm sure it's so good.

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Corrik7 posted...

It depends on case-load. If they are backed up, they only do the most extreme cases, but yes, they can possibly represent you if your financial situation meets it, and their case-load allows for it. It's the same with child support cases also.

I mean, they won't outside of extreme stuff but go off.

Corrik7 posted...

Also, on a side note, I was legally advised that if I had called the cops on my ex the night she stole my phone, was physically pushing me, and calling me a ***** over and over while blacked out drunk that I likely could have had been granted emergency custody then and possibly could have had a solid case for keeping better than 50/50 custody in a court case. I ain't like that though.

Speaking as someone who almost had his entire life destroyed by his ex because I didn't call the cops when she was doing literally this, you should have called the cops on her. Especially since she seems absurdly unfit to mother your child, especially since if she's willing to do this abusive stuff to you, she's more than willing to do emotionally, mentally, and potentially abusive stuff to your child.

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kevwaffles posted...

Oh I didn't reach it just now. But like I said to Chris, kid's gloves and pity.

Someone literally already jumped to your defense for you. But I guess Chris' opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's here to you, which is why I don't get why he bothers constantly being your advocate in these situations.

In this case I was being your advocate. Saying things like that to someone, even it they are in the wrong, debases you and no one else. If you are that bothered you can just tell him to fuck off and ignore him literally or metaphorically. But wishing legitimate ill on someone over annoying message board posting isn't a heroic stand.

Also I have played so much mafia with corrik that I think I am immune to the base level of annoyance he gives off. Which I know is there so I understand but it just does not bother me like it does with other people and my advice is of someone annoys you that much don't willingly interact with them. This advice is meant to help you, not him. When lotm passes me off I just walk away after a certain point myself.

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Corrik7 posted...

But I am smarter than you because I literally was at the courthouse and know what was said,

i don't think that's how intelligence works

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ShatteredElysium posted...

It's not like it's crazy expensive to add one either. Average cost is $40-60k.

That's a crazy amount to pay extra just to get a pool, plus all the maintenance. That's why it's reserved for rich people. Anyone middle class would put that into a nicer house or location.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Especially since she seems absurdly unfit to mother your child, especially since if she's willing to do this abusive stuff to you, she's more than willing to do emotionally, mentally, and potentially abusive stuff to your child.

He doesn't care about the kid. He seems to be driven by some weird form of pride, or faith that everything will work out if he follows this custom morality he's thought up (which also comes from pride, or fear?)

Pretty sure this is exactly why people say "you need Jesus"

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when are you going to finish Control?

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foolm0r0n posted...

That's a crazy amount to pay extra just to get a pool, plus all the maintenance. That's why it's reserved for rich people. Anyone middle class would put that into a nicer house or location.

My wife works in real estate and this is absolutely not the case where I live. There is a ton of houses in the 300-500k range in nice areas that have pools. Yes there's maintenance costs but they aren't astronomical.

Out of the 8 people I frequently hang out with who are homeowners (including myself), 5 have pools. 1 has no pool but owns a boat and a hot tub and is on the lake every weekend so didn't want a pool. 2 do not have pools. The valuations of 7 out of the 8 houses are in the 300-500k range and the one outlier is worth 800-900k because it's lakefront. None of the 8 live in a bad area and 4 of those houses are in two of the most desirable areas in Orlando (Windermere and Lake Conway). None of us are rich, we are all in the middle class bracket.

The only reason to not build a pool is because typically a pool adds 10-20k to a house valuation so unless you really love the property it's cheaper to just make a sideways move to a property that has one already.

Yeah if you buy a house with a pool that's the only way it makes sense. Adding one is just throwing money away though, even in your area. I realize there are also really hot areas where everyone has a pool, so the economics is different there.

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pools in Florida are a bit different than up in the northeast, for sure.

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One of those people I mentioned spent 90k not even building a pool but renovating his existing pool because he loves his house so much. He is obviously the one who who has the 800-900k house. He paid like $600k for it just before the crash in 2008 and has renovated the entire house from top to bottom. He's definitely behind when combining purchase cost and renovations and comparing it to market value. He's a pharmacist for the NICU, I don't know what he earns but I'd guess lower 6 figures.

MZero posted...

when are you going to finish Control?

I already did a long time ago! Sorry! I am actually going to probably play Resident Evil 7 next! I was dabbling a little in Skyrim.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i don't think that's how intelligence works

Indeed it isn't. = (

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Kevwaffles trying to pull rank on intelligence is almost as good as Mac Arrowny trying to pull rank on knowing what well adjusted behavior looks like.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

kevwaffles posted...

Oh I didn't reach it just now. But like I said to Chris, kid's gloves and pity.

Someone literally already jumped to your defense for you. But I guess Chris' opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's here to you, which is why I don't get why he bothers constantly being your advocate in these situations.

In this case I was being your advocate. Saying things like that to someone, even it they are in the wrong, debases you and no one else. If you are that bothered you can just tell him to fuck off and ignore him literally or metaphorically. But wishing legitimate ill on someone over annoying message board posting isn't a heroic stand.

Also I have played so much mafia with corrik that I think I am immune to the base level of annoyance he gives off. Which I know is there so I understand but it just does not bother me like it does with other people and my advice is of someone annoys you that much don't willingly interact with them. This advice is meant to help you, not him. When lotm passes me off I just walk away after a certain point myself.

Also also I am not like sitting in judgment or trying to be above it all I promise. In this case I was genuinely shocked you went there about a person's kid. Just felt like the time to cash in your chips instead of doubling down to me.

Don't get me wrong. I get where you're coming from. I got it the whole time, and you're not wrong. But for as venomous as I got, the reason I phrased it the way that I did is because I really do want the magically correct best scenario for his kid who doesn't deserve any of this shit.

Logically, even if Corrik's stories of her were like 80% BS my scenario still probably isn't what's best.
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Lopen posted...

Kevwaffles trying to pull rank on intelligence is almost as good as Mac Arrowny trying to pull rank on knowing what well adjusted behavior looks like.

I would have gone with the self-reflective comparison here, personally.
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I'll leave the self reflection to people who think mixing in 6th grade level vocabulary into the 1st grade staple of "I know you are but what am I" is something resembling a witty retort

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Oh wait unless you meant I should have went with "Kevwaffles trying to pull rank on intelligence is almost as good as Kevwaffles trying to pull rank on knowing what well adjusted behavior looks like"

I mean I guess that could work considering you went into a topic about a guy agonizing about an abusive relationship and a custody battle with the abuser and then said you were rooting for the abuser because the topic creator was told about pro-bono representation for matters like this by his local system and you assumed because the constitution only gives the right to free representation in criminal matters that there couldn't possibly be situations where one could get free representation otherwise

I mean yeah that is pretty poorly adjusted. But you didn't try to pull rank on well adjusted behavior so I dunno

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one outlier is worth 800-900k because it's lakefront. None of the 8 live in a bad area and 4 of those houses are in two of the most desirable areas in Orlando (Windermere and Lake Conway). None of us are rich, we are all in the middle class bracket.

Man what is considered the middle class bracket that someone can have a near million dollar home and be in it?

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Dude, Lopen, you're just trying too hard now.

I have no emotional investment in you or anything about you. The only thing I really know about you is that what you're doing right now is something you do a lot. That's really all I meant, and why I would never get as upset with you as I did with Corrik last night.
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reading this pool discussion like
https://imgflip.com/i/5anady

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Saying I'm trying hard is giving yourself way too much credit. This is like slam dunking on the hoop at the local pre-school. No effort needed just walk over and drop the ball in.

Maybe I should have fired back keeping only to the first grade vernacular to keep it challenging. They're shorter after all-- would have a harder time with the monster jams.

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You're right. This probably doesn't take much effort on your part. Like I said, literally the only thing I know about you is...this. So it's not like you're treading out of your comfort zone.

Regardless, you're not going to get the reaction I think you're trying to get. You're welcome to keep trying, though.
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Maniac64 posted...

Man what is considered the middle class bracket that someone can have a near million dollar home and be in it?

Working class even with a high salary is middle class.

But a 1 mil house over 30 years is around 4k/mo mortgage, 48k/yr. You just need a 140k salary (between 2 people) for it to be the recommended 1/3rd of your income.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Maniac64 posted...

Man what is considered the middle class bracket that someone can have a near million dollar home and be in it?

Working class even with a high salary is middle class.

But a 1 mil house over 30 years is around 4k/mo mortgage, 48k/yr. You just need a 140k salary (between 2 people) for it to be the recommended 1/3rd of your income.

To further expand, plenty of people that would be middle class could also not afford this. Middle class covers a pretty wide range.
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"Middle class" is an increasingly nebulous term. It's a pretty wide range of incomes/lifestyles and depends a lot on where you live.

There's a lot of people who think they're upper class but are actually middle class, and there's a lot of upper class people who claim to be middle class. So it gets pretty muddled.

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1m house is like 4k p+i but youre forgetting escrow which will likely be another 1k at least, and that's if you can put together a 100-200k down payment.

I would not recommend someone with 150k income spending that much on a house.
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Maniac64 posted...

Man what is considered the middle class bracket that someone can have a near million dollar home and be in it?

He bought the house at the height of the boom in 2008 when they gave anyone mortgages. He paid like 600k and they gave him 2 mortgages to make it work (He's not married and it's all in just his name). I don't know his wage but I'd guess 100-150k, I have no idea what it was in 2008 as I didn't meet him until 2014 and he's been a pharmacist as long as I've known him.

Edit: All 8 people in the group I mentioned are probably in the 70-150k bracket.

My house was only 125k with nothing down. But, yes, it has a pool and deck, a fire pit, a trampoline, a pavilion, a massive shed, a bricked off area with a flagpole, a side pad, and another cement pad also which I put firewood on.

Which is why I say... cutting grass is what I hate most in the world.

But, above-ground pools aren't very indicative of wealth.


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kevwaffles posted...

Like I said, literally the only thing I know about you is...this. So it's not like you're treading out of your comfort zone.

Not sure why I need to be innovative in every post, but I do do more than this around here so *shrug

But you act dumb, I point out dumb. Tired of seeing it? Don't be the one acting dumb and add a small contribution to the cause giving me less targets

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foolm0r0n posted...

Working class even with a high salary is middle class.

But a 1 mil house over 30 years is around 4k/mo mortgage, 48k/yr. You just need a 140k salary (between 2 people) for it to be the recommended 1/3rd of your income.

Lol if you can afford 4K a month on a mortgage alone, you are not middle class.

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I don't understand how a 1 million house over 30 years is 4k/mo mortgage.

A simple calculator says with 0 down, 0 taxes, 0 insurance, 0 pmi, and a great 3.5% interest rate, the monthly mortgage alone is 4,490.45 a month.

Even if you put 20% down, assuming they have 200k laying around... It is 3,592.36 a month... again WITH 0 Insurance, 0 Taxes, 0 PMI (Which would be correct with 20% alrdy paid), and a good 3.5% interest rate over 30 years.

But, insuring a house and the taxes on a house that high and you might easily be well over 10k a month on your mortgage.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

Working class even with a high salary is middle class.

But a 1 mil house over 30 years is around 4k/mo mortgage, 48k/yr. You just need a 140k salary (between 2 people) for it to be the recommended 1/3rd of your income.

Lol if you can afford 4K a month on a mortgage alone, you are not middle class.

I would think you are. It's just it's a huge range and plenty of "middle class" also couldn't afford this.

Of course it's all pretty damn nebulous anyway, so maybe it's more of a to-may-to to-mah-to type of thing.
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I pay 4k a month for a 2br apartment and I wouldn't necessarily consider myself "upper class" so idk

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lol if you can afford 4K a month on a mortgage alone, you are not middle class.

What are you then? If you think 150-200k/yr is beyond middle class then you have fallen for some serious billionaire propaganda. Arguably a class traitor.

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Corrik7 posted...

I don't understand how a 1 million house over 30 years is 4k/mo mortgage.

A simple calculator says with 0 down, 0 taxes, 0 insurance, 0 pmi, and a great 3.5% interest rate, the monthly mortgage alone is 4,490.45 a month.

Even if you put 20% down, assuming they have 200k laying around... It is 3,592.36 a month... again WITH 0 Insurance, 0 Taxes, 0 PMI (Which would be correct with 20% alrdy paid), and a good 3.5% interest rate over 30 years.

But, insuring a house and the taxes on a house that high and you might easily be well over 10k a month on your mortgage.

I think that general rule foolmo is referring to is before you factor a lot of that in. It's supposed to be a rough estimate for the range you're looking for when buying.
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The median household income is around 50k.

On what basis is 3 to 4 times that still in the middle?

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Corrik7 posted...

A simple calculator says with 0 down, 0 taxes, 0 insurance, 0 pmi, and a great 3.5% interest rate, the monthly mortgage alone is 4,490.45 a month.

I was going with 10% down.

But yeah there's PMI, insurance, taxes. So that's another 2k/mo if you have the worst property tax rate and got the most expensive insurance you could find. So fine, 6k/mo worst case, which needs 215k/yr. If you're paying 10k/mo you're getting ripped off harder than Corrik by his ex-wife.

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ChainLTTP posted...

I pay 4k a month for a 2br apartment and I wouldn't necessarily consider myself "upper class" so idk

dude you literally said you were very wealthy in your "my favorite movies with writeups" topic

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The median household income is around 50k.

On what basis is 3 to 4 times that still in the middle?

Median household income in my county is $100k. Rough estimates usually put 2x median as the bound between middle and upper class. So $150k - $200k would still fall within middle in this case.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The median household income is around 50k.

On what basis is 3 to 4 times that still in the middle?

You haven't answered what it is if not middle. It's ok if you only just realized that you internalized some billionaire propaganda here. It's pretty widespread.

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foolm0r0n posted...

You haven't answered what it is if not middle. It's ok if you only just realized that you internalized some billionaire propaganda here. It's pretty widespread.

I think the upper 10-20% is upper class, so yeah youre right, clearly the only upper class are the 500 or so billionaires and Ive fallen for their propaganda or whatever.

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foolm0r0n posted...

I was going with 10% down.

But yeah there's PMI, insurance, taxes. So that's another 2k/mo if you have the worst property tax rate and got the most expensive insurance you could find. So fine, 6k/mo worst case, which needs 215k/yr. If you're paying 10k/mo you're getting ripped off harder than Corrik by his ex-wife.

Fair enough. However, it probably varies significantly from area to area on what those costs are. Either way, 4k was really low.


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foolm0r0n posted...

You haven't answered what it is if not middle.

Upper-middle class

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I think the upper 10-20% is upper class, so yeah youre right, clearly the only upper class are the 500 or so billionaires and Ive fallen for their propaganda or whatever.

Upper-middle yeah, no one would argue that. But it's still middle. And even if you make 1 mil/yr salary you're still upper-middle class as long as you're working for it (though with that much income it's hard not to enter the capitalist class).

The propaganda is that someone working to make 6 figures compares with someone who makes 6 figures off investments. Like if someone's work becomes valuable enough they are suddenly villainized by those who hate the rich.

(Although your grouping does put people who make 85k with those who make 350k, which doesn't seem intentional)

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It's all stupid anyway
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