Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 367: Cuomophobic

(+) Yeah! (+)

HashtagSEP posted...

No, it's absolutely the Dems that are fucking up by trying to compromise with him in the first place, which just gave him more power, instead of making him have to decide if he wants to be the vote that kills it or not. There were several of them in favor of cutting it to $300 as it is.

Let's not pretend they're blameless, here. The phrasing is absolutely correct.

I mean okay he kills it the way McCain killed their healthcare vote. Now what?

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TotallyNotMI posted...

I mean okay he kills it the way McCain killed their healthcare vote. Now what?

Then it's actually clear Manchin is the one that killed it, instead of them compromising and compromising and compromising and putting forth a shitty end product that will rightfully be blamed on all of them and STILL lose them the house and senate.

You take the chance to step over the shit and hope the other guy has enough sense to do so as well, instead of agreeing to roll around in it.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Then it's actually clear Manchin is the one that killed it, instead of them compromising and compromising and compromising and putting forth a shitty end product that will rightfully be blamed on all of them and STILL lose them the house and senate.

You take the chance to step over the shit instead of agreeing to roll around in it.

And then the entire country gets no relief or UI extension.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Then it's actually clear Manchin is the one that killed it, instead of them compromising and compromising and compromising and putting forth a shitty end product that will rightfully be blamed on all of them and STILL lose them the house and senate.

but then people don't get any aid at all. That's the problem with actually caring about people when your opponents do not.

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I mean, that's literally the problem with the democratic party.

"Well, we probably SHOULD let them shit in our mouths, because it's better than nothing, right?"

You literally can't get stronger and move forward as a party if you just cower every time, because the other side and now Manchin know they literally have all the power. And this is just going to happen again and again and again.

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Letting Machin kill everything in the bill is also letting him know he has all the power! In that scenario it still gets spun as Dems didn't deliver while the country suffers even more!

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Frankly, I don't think Manchin kills it when it gets down to it. He's bluffed before.

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Also, lost in all this, Sinema literally copied the McCain thumbs down on the minimum wage vote.

https://twitter.com/Roots_Action/status/1367906192626831363

Garbage people.

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8 Dems voted no on that amendment. Fuck all of them.

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Fuck the democrats.

Closer and closer to only voting I.

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Dancedreamer posted...

GOP: "They promised COVID relief, but never provided."
Voters: "They're right!"
*ignores that the GOP and Manchin stopped it from happening, not the Dems*

Yes.

Because the Dems did promise Covid Relief. Immediately, even.

And they lied. And backpedaled.

The Dems wouldn't promise it if it was majority Republicans.

So they lied. They promised it to win an election and when it came down to it, they couldn't deliver. This is simple. Don't promise anything you can't deliver.

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One of the byproducts of previously liberal Republicans like Corrik and I leaving the party for the Democrats....

Is Democrats becoming more conservative

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Again, 84% of the democraric senators voted in favor of $15 minimum wage while 0% of GOP did.

The takeaway here shouldn't be fuck the Dems.

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The parties should have some sort of standard for who they say is a part of their organization then.

Its almost funny in a disgusting way that the Left has been IMMEDIATELY proven right about the Biden administration/Dems in almost every way.

Im washing my hands of these fools, until you hold the Manchins accountable, fuck off Im not accountable to you.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

Again, 84% of the democraric senators voted in favor of $15 minimum wage while 0% of GOP did.

The takeaway here shouldn't be fuck the Dems.

I dont see a single person giving the GOP any credit, get out of here with this please.

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HashtagSEP posted...

No, it's absolutely the Dems that are fucking up by trying to compromise with him in the first place, which just gave him more power, instead of making him have to decide if he wants to be the vote that kills it or not. There were several of them in favor of cutting it to $300 as it is.

Let's not pretend they're blameless, here. The phrasing is absolutely correct.

I disagree because of the circumstances here. I actually deleted an earlier post with similar sentiments as more details came in.

If it were a matter of daring Manchin to tank the entire bill on this, then yes, I actually would reluctantly support Dems calling his bluff and daring him to be the one to deny COVID relief to millions of Americans. I say reluctantly because I absolutely loathe putting such a must-pass bill in jeopardy but I would think it's a bluff.

However, because this is dueling amendments, I don't fault the Dems for trying to work a deal with him. Because now you're too deep in the weeds for most people to follow. The bill at-large can still pass and I don't think most people will delve into the details to learn/care that Manchin joined the GOP to cut UI at the last second. They'll just go "why did dems pass a bill that was so weak on UI?" even though it was a GOP amendment. If they know it's the case he won't back the $400 number then I don't fault for them for trying to make the cut to UI less worse than it would otherwise be if they did nothing and let Manchin walk over to Portman. They don't gain anything other than some moral superiority if they hold fast to $400 and let Manchin cut it down the way Republicans want to. What are they going to do then? Refuse to pass the COVID bill because Manchin and the Republicans passed a shit amendment? They can't do that. And that moral superiority isn't worth anything to the people who would be getting the more draconian GOP UI plan. The bill itself will be painted as Dem only bill because it's probably going to be a party-line vote!

Manchin served them a shit sandwich right here despite having just said he was satisfied with how the bill was the other day after the eligibility restrictions and I can't fault them for trying to damage control this given the unique circumstances.

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hooray 2 party system

Welcome to my past decade of libertarian life

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TotallyNotMI posted...

Again, 84% of the democraric senators voted in favor of $15 minimum wage while 0% of GOP did.

The takeaway here shouldn't be fuck the Dems.

yeah but muh Bernie

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Its almost funny in a disgusting way that the Left has been IMMEDIATELY proven right about the Biden administration/Dems in almost every way.

Im washing my hands of these fools, until you hold the Manchins accountable, fuck off Im not accountable to you.

Honestly, yes, I'm strongly feeling this too right now

what the fuck is anybody doing trying to cut UI for literally any reason right now

This whole shitshow has been beyond pathetic from the democrats.

(That said, yes, the Republicans are thousands of times worse, but christ it's getting really hard not to just slip into apathy here)

Reg posted...

(That said, yes, the Republicans are thousands of times worse, but christ it's getting really hard not to just slip into apathy here)

Right? Jesus

PerfectChaosZ posted...

The parties should have some sort of standard for who they say is a part of their organization then.

almost like we need more than two parties or something

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https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1367201632052797441

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FFDragon posted...

almost like we need more than two parties or something

Well don't tell me what can I do?

FFDragon posted...

almost like we need more than two parties or something

too bad the way the constitution structured our government basically ensures there can only be two major parties and would actively hinder any attempts for a significant third party

whoops

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FFDragon posted...

almost like we need more than two parties or something

Yes, but

xp1337 posted...

too bad the way the constitution structured our government basically ensures there can only be two major parties and would actively hinder any attempts for a significant third party

Beat me to it

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Because they only have a majority on paper.

Manchin straight up doesn't count when it comes time to vote.

He is a worthless existence.

Yeah this is no longer dem majority. Theyve had to compromise so much to get him on board and at this point its worthless to have 50 because then you have people blaming dems because Manchin and Sinema want to stall everything.

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just because it's not currently possible doesn't mean we don't desperately need it

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FFDragon posted...

just because it's not currently possible doesn't mean we don't desperately need it

Yeah, I'm all for more parties but until it's feasible voting for them is just a waste. I wish it wasn't.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Not just him.

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1367886228125855750?s=21

Sinema did a little dance to rub it in.

Go ahead, Tony. Say it. Ulti was right.

Carper and Coons needs to be launched out of the party into the sun. Those are safe seats. The others are bad but those two are inexcusable.

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Reg posted...

Honestly, yes, I'm strongly feeling this too right now

what the fuck is anybody doing trying to cut UI for literally any reason right now

This whole shitshow has been beyond pathetic from the democrats.

(That said, yes, the Republicans are thousands of times worse, but christ it's getting really hard not to just slip into apathy here)

People just wanted $2000 promised to them for winning an election.

And then all this.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

Yeah, I'm all for more parties but until it's feasible voting for them is just a waste. I wish it wasn't.

sure looks like voting for the main ones are a waste right here and now!

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On the minimum wage amendment, IIRC, some of the 8 who voted against it are on the record as for $15. I think for most of those no votes (i.e. not Manchin) are procedural no votes as in "The parliamentarian said we can't do that in reconciliation and we respect her decision."

So, like, still a shit vote but I don't think that's indicative of $15/min wage support (or lack of) among Dems. Just an hour or so ago at a press conference the Press Secretary said that Biden is still with Sanders on $15 and is not lowering his target number fwiw. That said, if Manchin remains opposed to it "welp." Sanders himself just said that the issue will be brought back up (though not in this bill ofc)

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xp1337 posted...

On the minimum wage amendment, IIRC, some of the 8 who voted against it are on the record as for $15. I think for most of those no votes (i.e. not Manchin) are procedural no votes as in "The parliamentarian said we can't do that in reconciliation and we respect her decision."

So, like, still a shit vote but I don't think that's indicative of $15/min wage support (or lack of) among Dems. Just an hour or so ago at a press conference the Press Secretary said that Biden is still with Sanders on $15 and is not lowering his target number fwiw. That said, if Manchin remains opposed to it "welp." Sanders himself just said that the issue will be brought back up (though not in this bill ofc)

Oh ok thanks. That is far less infuriating then.

That said Manchin has proven to be nothing but trouble and I cant imagine him being cool next time the dems try to do something useful.

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Is Sinema on board for $15? Thats the only one besides Manchin I thought had been opposed to it before today but I guess Im not 100% sure.

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Eject him from the party

Like this is what I find on Sinema:

The minimum wage provision is not appropriate for the reconciliation process, Sinema contested, expressing concern that a debate over a minimum wage hike would slow down the rollout of the relief package. It is not a budget item. And it shouldnt be in there,

so I cant tell if shes against $15 minimum or just the process Biden/Sanders were pushing for it. Either way sucks but one reasoning is bad and the other is inexcusable.

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

Eject him from the party

No joke this would be the kind of shit I had in mind when I said to do that except I didn't think he'd be this despicable and force the issue so quickly. I mean Dems already compromised once and he's still considering selling then out to the GOP? It's outrageous. There's basically no hope he comes around on the stuff he needs to, unless he's bluffing. If we're doomed then at least call the bluff.

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

Eject him from the party

As the boards biggest Manchin defender, I am ok with this.

He is tanking Bidens agenda and is single handedly going to get the democrats blamed for his complete idiocy on this issue. 99% of the party is for this and he isnt but then the public perception is going to be well the democrats didnt want the stimulus either and they lowered UI!!! when it was just the republicans and fucking Manchin.

Oh and fuck Maine again holy shit.

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Since we can't have third parties I think the Dems (and Republicans) should just have a minimum you have to actually be a Democrat in order to certifiably call yourself one.

Suprak the Stud posted...

As the boards biggest Manchin defender, I am ok with this.

He is tanking Bidens agenda and is single handedly going to get the democrats blamed for his complete idiocy on this issue. 99% of the party is for this and he isnt but then the public perception is going to be well the democrats didnt want the stimulus either and they lowered UI!!! when it was just the republicans and fucking Manchin.

Oh and fuck Maine again holy shit.

Let's not only blame Maine. The fact that, in the blue wave of 2018, we still lost Heidi Heitkamp, Bill Nelson, and Claire McCaskill put us in this position too. So fuck North Dakota, Missouri, and ESPECIALLY cocktease Florida.

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I think the Democrats need to actively do everything they can to actually punish Manchin.

Like, Republicans censoring people left and right for actual having a spine, yet Manchin is an actual wolf in sheep's clothing pretending to be a Democrat, and he's probably getting out of this unscathed.

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What can we even do to punish him? There's nothing that would actually hurt him.

Wheres Agent 47 when you need him?

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Inviso posted...

Let's not only blame Maine. The fact that, in the blue wave of 2018, we still lost Heidi Heitkamp, Bill Nelson, and Claire McCaskill put us in this position too. So fuck North Dakota, Missouri, and ESPECIALLY cocktease Florida.

yeah but come on

susan collins

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The pointless censuring that Republicans have been having parties over doesn't actually do anything.

Stuff like that only plays when most of your party is a bunch of fascists.

Inviso posted...

Let's not only blame Maine. The fact that, in the blue wave of 2018, we still lost Heidi Heitkamp, Bill Nelson, and Claire McCaskill put us in this position too. So fuck North Dakota, Missouri, and ESPECIALLY cocktease Florida.

The following states currently have GOP senators elected by closer margins than Collins won by in Maine last year:

North Carolina (2020, 2016)
Iowa (2020)
Florida (2018, 2016)
Indiana (2018)
Texas (2018)
Missouri (2018, 2016)
Pennsylvania (2016)
Wisconsin (2016)

But somehow everything is Maine's fault, not any of these states and especially not other states where Democrats aren't anywhere close to competitive.
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I would also like to add Ron Johnson to the fuck you list.

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Xeybozn posted...

But somehow everything is Maine's fault, not any of these states and especially not other states where Democrats aren't anywhere close to competitive.

Yeah, this country kind of blows. But its fun to have a villain.