Board 8 > Bloodborne DLC question plz

(+) Yeah! (+)

more like not enough discussion about best weapon rakuyo.

it vanished after being brought up way back at the start

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I know I'm in the minority with not hating the dungeons, but imo they're worth going through once just for the unique bosses.

They're also really useful for baddies, which honestly I still am, because you get a lot more consumables, upgrade mats, and echoes.

And iirc you don't really need to invest too much time into them to get the claws? Could be wrong on that though.

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xp1337 posted...

more like not enough discussion about best weapon rakuyo.

it vanished after being brought up way back at the start

I mean it's not really something you can use on an initial run...

A theoretical NG+ with the build I'm talking about would absolutely use it!

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I wish the transformed Chikage was still a one-handed weapon so you can use its Bloodtinge scaling version along with the Evelyn at the same time. I mean yeah, that does seem OP, but the build also seems a little restricted without that option, as you trade in your long range game (on a Bloodtinge build) in exchange for a short range murder sword and vice versa.

I thought about bringing this up too, but I think it's fine. you just need to switch back and forth between 1h and 2h when you want to shoot, and the trick attack which buffs the chikage is particularly powerful. in addition to health drain, you have an incentive to keep returning to the 1h form anyway.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Hmmm is 8 Endurance TOO little? Obviously not actually leveling it, but wondering what the minimum is. Using the calculator and Noble Scion takes notably less levels to get where I want.

8 is probably too little, in all honesty. and if that's coming from me then you know it really is the case since I'm one of the more anti-endurance BB players out there.

CassandraCain posted...

Yeah I mean I knew all of that, was just curious to know how much extra damage it actually gives you. Like when you first pop it is it a 1.1x modifier that works its way up to a full 2x when the bar is full? What kind of variables, etc.

ah okay. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head.

0 Beasthood: no change to physical damage and defense
1 Beasthood : +20% phys damage, -20% all defenses
25 Beasthood: +30% phys damage, -30% all defenses
50 Beasthood: +40% phys damage, -40% all defenses
100 Beasthood: +50% phys damage, -50% all defenses
200 Beasthood: +60% phys damage, -60% all defenses
300 Beasthood: +70% phys damage, -80% all defenses

looks like you get a +20% bonus to damage as long as your meter isn't empty. getting +30% and even +40% damage seems fairly easy. more than that requires you to build your meter up (and to have a big enough meter to fill to the higher breakpoints). there seems to be diminishing returns, since +20-40% damage is so easy to get.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

But you gotta get it in a dungeon and dungeons are booooooooriiiiiiiiiiiing.

I completely do not identify with this, lol

always enjoyed the dungeons. they're a great change of pace from the main game. the ability to go back and forth between doing dungeons and doing base game content is one of the things that always keeps me interested in playing.

Peace___Frog posted...

I know I'm in the minority with not hating the dungeons, but imo they're worth going through once just for the unique bosses.

yeah I really don't get the hate for them but then again I've always loved dungeon crawlers, and this is the main reason I fell in love with Demon's Souls when I first played it.

the other great thing about the chalice dungeons is that they are a fantastic place to practice your skills. they are filled with enemies who are more difficult and less forgiving than the base game content. probably a contributing factor to why the dungeons receive so much hate, honestly.

xp1337 posted...

more like not enough discussion about best weapon rakuyo.

rakuyo is really fun, and very powerful. I can't personally say that I ever feel like I mastered the use of the full moveset, even after using it as my main weapon on a tomb prospector build for quite a while. stuff like the random short stab attack with the left handed blade, I read explanations on how it can be a good mix up but I never personally found any opportunities where I was able to use it effectively, and eventually just gave up and relied on my basic attacks and spin to win.


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MariaTaylor posted...

8 is probably too little, in all honesty. and if that's coming from me then you know it really is the case since I'm one of the more anti-endurance BB players out there.

Well I only used 11 through the entire game just now, so even if I had to invest 2 or 3 levels into it that's still a lower level requirement to get the build where I want it than any other starter! I'll just start with the whip which barely uses the endurance.

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best thing to do while looking at starting class is to pick the class that has the fewest points invested into the stats you don't plan to use. if this means you need to level up endurance a few points to get to 11 or 12, should be fine.

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As for dungeons, I just don't like randomnly generated content with a repeating room layouts at all. It all feel so samey and drab, and counterintuitive to the fantastic environments of Bloodborne.

I did not know Beast Pellets took away defense...that explains a bit.


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MariaTaylor posted...

best thing to do while looking at starting class is to pick the class that has the fewest points invested into the stats you don't plan to use. if this means you need to level up endurance a few points to get to 11 or 12, should be fine.

Yeah that's what I've been trying to minmax. I wish it didn't have the unneeded points in arcane, but it still ends up have better allocation that the deprived equivilant at the end of the day.

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yeah waste of skin sucks.

best starting class for a bloodtinge + skill build is... hmm... I'd say the Professional. it has the fewest wasted points in Str/Arcane (only 17), and has a favorable spread of 9/8 instead of 9/9 like some of the other classes. this is getting heavily into min/max territory though. I'm not sure if it's really all that important. you also get 12 endurance and 15 skill without needing to waste any early game levels.


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I guess that actually does work better if 8 Endurance is too low. I skipped over it before because of how high it was.

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Two full playthrough and only now do I learn the Threaded Cane is one handed transformed.

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Yeah my earlier explanation of endurance was heavily reliant on the fact that I generally pick starting classes with 10-12 endurance, and even then I mentioned that a few extra points (up to 18 is what I consider "high") is okay for less experienced players if they feel that they need it. I'm just not a fan of the sentiment that 20-30 endurance is needed in this game. 30 endurance is absolutely nuts, and even 20 is a waste of at least a few points.


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Went ahead and just got through Cleric Beast.

My love affair with the Threaded Cane didn't last long, because it keep bouncing off the fucking wall, which I didn't even know was a THING in this game.

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wasn't going to say anything but threaded cane sucks ass.

bad stagger, bad damage, clunky moveset. the damage gets better later on, but it's pretty much only beloved by certain players because of style and being able to cheese things with reach. and why wouldn't you just use a different weapon with good damage and a good moveset.

just got the tonitrus in my side playthrough I've been doing and man this thing is so CHUNKY

it already has the same 200 damage as my flame converted saw cleaver in the base form, despite having arguably a worse gem set up... but when buffed that jumps to 350!

I haven't even gotten to vicar amelia yet and I can deal 350 damage

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MariaTaylor posted...

why wouldn't you just use a different weapon with good damage and a good moveset.

Concealing the weapon inside the cane and flogging the beasts with the whip is partly an act of ceremony, an attempt to demonstrate to oneself that the bloodlust of the hunt will never encroach upon the soul.

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I do get like five swings of regain out of it, but I am absolutely rushing Rifle Spear as soon as I take down Gascoigne, lol.

The damage actually isn't that bad in one handed, what with my starting 15 Skill and it already having C scaling, but the whip is just pathetic.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

Concealing the weapon inside the cane and flogging the beasts with the whip is partly an act of ceremony, an attempt to demonstrate to oneself that the bloodlust of the hunt will never encroach upon the soul.

lol point taken!

yeah I have no problem with people using it for lore reasons, style reasons, or they just think it's cool. I think it frustrates me though because of how many new players pick the cane to start with and it ends up making their experience with the game worse. often times they'll continue to praise the cane because of its style but complain about how hard the game is or how their weapon bounces off the wall, etc. etc... things that are only happening BECAUSE they are using the cane.

it also teaches so many bad habits and doesn't reinforce any of the skills needed to be good at the game. like an optimal strategy in many bloodborne encounters is to engage the enemy aggressively and hit them first, stun them, and keep hitting till they die.

but the stun and the damage on the cane are both SO bad, that often players can't keep enemies stunlocked, and they can't deal enough damage to kill an enemy without getting counter attacked. so they learn through reinforcement to back away and fight enemies with hit and run tactics.

and I might as well just go into this now since it's the third time it has come up, but reach in bloodborne is generally useless or a detriment. here's why..

often times when you hit the enemy, they are slightly pushed back by your attack. because of this, you want a weapon that will keep the enemy mostly grounded in place, and whose continuous swings will continue to strike the same spot. even if the enemy is pushed back a little bit, your character steps forward a little bit as well. to do this, it's often best to get as CLOSE to the enemy as possible while striking. you DON'T want to hit them with the very edge of the reach of your weapon.

the issue with the whips and scythes is that they have a long wind up time between attacks and really irregular attack patterns. like it'll sweep from right to left and then left to right at completely different angles.

because of the long wind up time of your attack, you have to try and strike enemies near the edge of your reach, which you don't want to do. if you try to get close, you'll get hit before you can actually whip them. or they'll be inside of your striking range.

then, after hitting them, they'll get pushed out of position. great. that's another thing to worry about. they were already at the edge of your reach and you might have just pushed them out of your reach.

even better? your next swing is coming in at a completely different angle. if it doesn't bounce off of a wall there's no guarantee you'll even hit the damn guy.


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Hmmmm. Speaking of scythes, i never really got into the burial blade. Maybe one day I'll give it another go.

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The burial blade is the one I always wanted to use but never got around to getting a good enough build to NG+ for

Currently using the boom hammer on a whim and it's surprisingly pretty fun

Also always wanted to use the claws with full beast mode but you have to beat the actual worst boss in the game to get the rune, which discourages me

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Actually timing myself and I've trumped Blood Starved about 3 hours in. Not rushing, just casual play with knowledge of what to do fresh in my mind.

Rifle Spear at +3 now, and I'm iffy enough on the movrset that I probably am gonna rush Simon once I beat Amelia to give the Bowblade a try. I've got Vigor at 25 now so time pump Bloodtinge.

Seriously, selling those Doll Clothes is INCREDIBLE at the point in the game you can get them. 6 free levels.


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No way, my girl Luna Loveless looks too good in the doll skirt for me to sell it

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My personal least favorite boss in the game is Shadows of Yarnham. Always hated those guys.

I always hated bosses like that though. Dark Souls 2 syndrome.

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You gotta admit they have an awesome design at least

Ringwraiths of Yharnam

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Yeah, but then they're regular enemies later which means they lose all their luster. It makes the mob version cooler, but the boss way lamer. Another syndrome, Capra Demon!

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Good point, I forgot about that. I understand sometimes they gotta reuse assets to cut corners and save time, but man it's always a bummer when it happens.

Worse example: the giant dragon butts in Lost Izalith

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I mean everything about the last few areas of DS1 is hilarious. They didn't have the clout yet to push for more dev time.

I don't thing Shadows of Yarnham becoming mobs was laziness or budget, I think it's just a meant to be terror inducing like the BSB in the DLC. "Woah, those 3 dudes who were bosses are just here now", which is meant to freak you out even MORE when there are SIX a few minutes later.

Fun fact with that, 4 of those guys rushed me at once and the timing was perfect for me to 1HKO pancake them with a charged R2 at literally the exact same time with simultaneously death animations. Was extremely pleasing to see.

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Jesus Christ I can barely scratch Simon. This is impossible.

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Nothing will make you feel the importance of weapon upgrades as much as trying to fight an enemy hunter with a half-upgraded weapon and mediocre blood gems.

I love multiple boss fights, gank squads, anything like that. At a certain point you need an extra challenge and this is one of the few legitimate ways to get it. Tests for more niche skills like camera control, stamina management, and patience as well as learning and exploiting enemy move sets. Things you're never really forced to do properly if you only have to engage one enemy at a time.

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Been trying to think up strategies. Poison does plenty but I can hold enough daggers to finish the job. I remember the rifle spear L2 PVP spam which would work against some hunters, but that's no gonna work he because he dodges back and not to the side. I've yet to manage more than 5% of his health other than when I tried poison, so buffing weapons with fire is just wasting materials. I REFUSE to move on until I get this Bowblade.

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Oh....guess I could just do this...

https://youtu.be/iMUrj7lvsu4

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that looks like a miserable experience, but this is coming from someone who never uses cheese strategies lol

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I feel like the cheese strategy I used was to get him stuck on one of the walls around the lamp, and using the whip's extended range, maybe? I don't remember exactly. But yes, if you try fighting him as early as you possibly can, you're in for a world of hurt. He can probably one shot you at that point, he'd still be difficult even if you fought him at level 50 with some gems and upgrades.

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my idea of getting the bowblade early is to kill simon right after I kill ludwig. heck, if you're inclined to cheese, you might even be able to push him down the elevator shaft leading to the research hall, but I can't remember exactly how long it takes him to appear there so it might be a longer wait.


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Doesn't he appear there the moment you get there? That might be a better method, but then that means defeating a screaming horse using a weapon other than the one you're trying to maximize your intimate time with.

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GOT IT

Goodbyyyyyye Rifle Spear.

I am now A-OK with progressing normally for the Reiterpallasch. I wanted that Rifle Spear out of my life, lol.

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What about the spear didn't tickle your fancy, out of curiosity?

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I just really hated it's moveset. I've never like spears in these games in general, and always prefer sweeping attacks over thrusting, and it's sweeping attacks are dull and slow.

I'm sure it's just me bit being good, but the thing missed a LOT, even when locked on. I was getting torn up using it.

Primarily though, yeah, just boring.

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Just grinded my teeth for over an hour on Ludwig, trying to beat him underleveled so I can get the moonlight blade early, but MAN. HE DIFFICULT. I have done this before but I don't remember how underleveled I was, maybe I'll advance a little more first and then go back.

The only times I was even able to beat his first phase was when I used a beast blood pellet, which I have now learned are VERY effective. But I have none left...

and of course each time I got to his second phase he annihilated me immediately

still one of my favorite bosses

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getting close to being "done" with my arcane build. I'm only taking it to level 60 so that I should be able to find and co-op with random people in most areas of the game except for like the first two areas. although honestly knowing me, I'll probably get invested in exploring the chalice dungeons (I've already cleared a good chunk of them despite only being at level 38 right now) and level myself up more later. hard to say.

I still have a good amount of areas left to unlock in the base game. I've been taking it slow, talking to NPCs a lot, and thinking about the lore as I go through it. it's been a while since I've done a run like this. it's really common for me to either be doing a challenge run or a speed run.

cleared everything in the DLC up to ludwig. I have no plans to fight him right now. although I think I probably could beat him, since I'm mainly using a good fire type weapon that is also serrated. but I'm keeping all of my weapons at +6 and I know he'll be a pain to fight without at least a +7 or +8, especially given that I am planning to cap my level (which means a lower and less optimized stat spread)

my main goal is to get some irregular weapons so I can start slotting more of the elemental gems that I've collected, and then I will feel better about upgrading those weapons. upgrading regular weapons feels like a waste of chunks because I know I'll want something with three different gem slots later on, and these will end up getting tossed in the trash. for now, the augur of ebrietas is good enough to deal with pretty much all of the chalice mid boss types -- dealing over half their health in damage and knocking them down so I can finish them off. most bosses are usually weak to either bolt or fire, and I have access to both. I could probably finish the rest of the game at level 38 with just my +6 weapon. might even be a fun challenge to do so.


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One shot Paarl immediately with shit gems and runes not unlocked yet. Feels good. This charged R2 arrow is nuts even with by Bloodtinge still only at 25 and B scaling.

Have to get used to bullet management though.

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Question, will the order in which I rush these level ups differ from your earlier recommendation depending on if it's a fuck on bowblade, reiterpallasch, or Chikage, or should it be 50/25 Blood/Skill first before pumping Skill regardless?

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it's really, really good. the only downside of the arrows is that they aren't buffed by bone marrow ash. they pretty much excel in every category as ranged attacks otherwise. damage, dropoff range, etc.

blood bullets are more simple than you think, you just have to condition yourself to pay attention to your ammunition. generally you want to always be using blood bullets and save your QS stock for emergencies when you need to shoot without being able to reload.

the times when you can reload are the same times when you can safely heal. the big difference is that you MUST know how to safely heal. because reloading doesn't heal yourself, it damages yourself. meaning if you try to do it at the wrong time, you'll die. as opposed to healing at the wrong time which usually just causes you to take damage and heal at the same time, often evening out.

if you haven't learned how to safely heal, it's a good idea to learn now. otherwise your ranged weapon performance is gonna be lackluster.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Question, will the order in which I rush these level ups differ from your earlier recommendation depending on if it's a fuck on bowblade, reiterpallasch, or Chikage, or should it be 50/25 Blood/Skill first before pumping Skill regardless?

use your best judgement based on whether you're getting more use out of the sword or the bow, as well as factoring in if the weapon is doing enough damage. if your sword is already dealing enough damage to kill most regular enemies without any trouble, and you're using the bow to get a lot of ranged damage on bosses, it's a good idea to level up your bloodtinge more quickly.

it's hard to give a solid recommendation for more complicated builds because they don't follow simple rules, and will often depend on how the weapon performance feels at any given point in the run.

edit: if you're not sure, and your damage is fine, invest in health first. you're going to need health eventually anyway so it's not a waste to get more points there early.


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Got Reiterpallasch to +6, it's neat! I may have to mess around with it on generic mobs, even if I dig into some bullets (with Eye Rune I'm getting 5-10 bullets per 40 second run on the lecture hall slimes).

Of course, now I'm slamming up against Logarius, so I may as well wait until I can mess around with Chikage at the same time.

Evelynn is at +6 as well, though it's not like there's aything fancy there, it's just damage. S Rank in Bloodtinge already though, is there much or a reason to get this to +10?

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This topic made me go look up some of my old Bloodborne boss fights I recorded from my Kirkhammer run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CocJAuPjO4U

I got really into using the full charge attack even when I probably shouldn't have done so but it's soooo satisfying.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Evelynn is at +6 as well, though it's not like there's aything fancy there, it's just damage. S Rank in Bloodtinge already though, is there much or a reason to get this to +10?

higher base damage, higher scaling = more return on investment from your stats and your blood gems

I can't find explicit confirmation on this (because all of the damage calculators use the +10 weapons with max scaling values) but I'm close to certain that your scaling in bloodborne continues to go up all the way to +10.

important thing to know about all souls games is that the scaling tooltip doesn't tell you any useful information beyond 'this weapon is good with this stat.' your weapon might say S scaling already (I think it at +6 it should say A, not S though. are you sure it says S already?), but the ratio could still go up from 1.3 to 1.5 or something and the game just won't ever tell you because the math is all hidden. additionally, two weapons that both say A could have values of 1.1 and 0.86

there's just no consistency or logic behind it.

but yeah if you plan to use the evelyn to deal damage, you should upgrade it to +10. you could also ignore the evelyn and just use the bowblade to shoot arrows instead. the bowblade is going to do more damage per shot, but the evelyn can shoot projectiles buffed with bone marrow ash.

this actually might be a case where the repeating pistol could potentially shine. you use your bow for ranged damage shots normally, and keep the repeating pistol to use specifically for BMA increased shots only. this would actually justify the cost of an extra bullet for the added damage, since it will be getting a multiplier as well. and since you have a spammable ranged projectile in your right hand, it doesn't feel bad to waste a left handed slot on the repeating pistol. if I was doing another BLT build right now I might consider trying this out.


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Murphiroth posted...

This topic made me go look up some of my old Bloodborne boss fights I recorded from my Kirkhammer run.

lol nice vid

yeah the kirkhammer definitely has a few good points. overhand swings are generally useful in bloodborne because of the hitbox placement of certain bosses (paarl, amygdala, a few other enemies). I think the weapon is pretty bad in the earlygame because it doesn't have the damage to support its slow, clunky playstyle. but once you get enough strength, enough upgrades, and good blood gems? it actually justifies the risk of fully charging up an R2, or swinging a slow, clunky hammer around -- since the damage is finally there to make up for the slow attack rating.

I've actually been thinking about how many points of strength I want to put into my arcane build because of how it will allow me to use various weapons. and man this video makes me want to put a bit more strength in so I can use an arcane converted kirkhammer at some point...

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got really invested in some chalice exploration earlier.

found my lost saw cleaver, a weapon I hope to be using more in the future once I get the good gems to support it.

defeated chalice rom despite the fact that I haven't even reached the actual rom in the main game yet.

additionally just cleared out the rest of lower pthumeru. defeating bloodletting beast with only 30 vit was a pain in the ass. he had some attacks that could oneshot me. meanwhile I was chipping away at his health with a +6 weapon. at least it was pure fire converted damage, that helped.

I've unlocked all of the lamps I will need to start progressing into the lategame, but I haven't cleared cainhurt or the forbidden woods yet. shouldn't be much longer before I have access to every area in the game for co-op. at this rate I'll probably have all of the chalices unlocked first!

lastly just want to say that the tonitrus is absolutely disgustingly powerful. I mean I always knew this but it's been a while since I used it as a main weapon. probably the main reason I was even able to get past some of the chalice areas and bosses so early is because I've been relying heavily on the buffed tonitrus damage.


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I'm reading through The Paleblood Hunt and between that and this topic I'm really raring to go again...

I've never done a fully arcane build before, that might be interesting? What do you go for in the early game before you have the Tony?

I've also never used a nonstandard version of a weapon either, so the gem optimization discussion is a little over my head.

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Tonitrus is a weapon I used a bit on my first playthrough, and it ended up being pretty nuts even without the arcane stats.

I think what turned be off from it was my inherent Souls bias of a strong weapon buffed with an elemental item being better than one with an elemental upgrade on it.

It's definitely been wierd so far in this skill blood playthrough using only weapons that came be papered.

Speaking of Rom, second least favorite boss. Only reason it's not my least favorite is that on a run where you beat her she's easy as shit, but she's just annoying and has so much RNG involved. Overall it's absolutely the boss I've died to the most in all 3 playthrough including my current one.

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