Board 8 > Bloodborne DLC question plz

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yes I could post this on the Bloodborne forum, but I'm not a masochist.

Haven't played this game since release, and haven't touched the DLC yet. Wanna beat it before NG+ing to get the weapons. I'm soul level 92, and people recommend just being 65, but I'm also going in with nothing but rust. Gonna be a problem?

I would just go in to try for myself, but I haven't actually dropped the $20 yet.

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Some of the bosses are likely going to be a problem whether you're severely overleveled or not. >__>

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You should be okay up until the the first boss. There... Hopefully the run up helped you shake off the rust!

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All of the game's hardest bosses are in the dlc so you're going to want to shake that rust off. It also contains some of the game's flat out best stuff (areas, weapons, bosses, etc) so it's easily worth the money.

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DLC is tough even with +10 weapon, which matters more than level. It'll be fine.

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If it gets too rough, how much do I have to do to get the Church Pick, the Maria sword (forget the name), and Holy Blade? That's pretty much all I'm interested in, I don't actually even want to beat the DLC until the NG+

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Also my rust isn't COMPLETELY in a vaccum since I did just finish replaying Dark Souls 3, though I'm worried if that will actually be a hindrance.

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Nothing that can't be solved by some friendly summoning (hopefully there's still some folks playing).

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Had no problem getting peeps for DS3 (except for Aldrich??), so fingers crossed.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

If it gets too rough, how much do I have to do to get the Church Pick, the Maria sword (forget the name), and Holy Blade? That's pretty much all I'm interested in, I don't actually even want to beat the DLC until the NG+

I forget where the Church Pick is exactly.

Holy Blade you can transmute from the first boss IIRC.

The Rakuyo (Maria's sword) huehuehuehuehuehue. You'll have to get to the last area in the DLC and then win a hard encounter. it's worth it though.

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Damn, I thought that Maria fight was supposed to be at the midpoint where the DLC "transitioned" into what was theoretically supposed to be the second of 2 DLCs.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

the Maria sword (forget the name)

The Rakuyo is the toughest weapon to get, probably in the entire game.

And for the Church Pick there's a hunter wielding it in a cell just after the first boss, you gotta progress first to get a key then go back.

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Despaaaaaaair.

Maybe I'll just forgo it. I did a Dex build the first time through anyways, time to change it up. Church Pick sounds like it's just after the Moonlight Sword, meaning I can forego having to spoil the DLC right before starting a new run.

I...think I did a dex build at least? The game is still installing so I can't actually load up to check my character's stats, just the level, lol.

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CassandraCain posted...

The Rakuyo is the toughest weapon to get, probably in the entire game.

And for the Church Pick there's a hunter wielding it in a cell just after the first boss, you gotta progress first to get a key then go back.

Doesn't the shaman bone blade trick still work?

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Oh yeah I forgot about the shaman bone blade, that does indeed make it a bit easier.

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Church pick is one of my favorite weapons in the entire game.

The entire dlc is really good. Worth every penny.

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My issue isn't that it's not worth the 20 bucks, but that I've seen it go on sale so many times without buying it. So many $8 opportunities missed.

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The final area in the dlc is one of my favorites in the entire series. Fishing Hamlet is such a cool place.

The final boss is a nightmare in every sense of the word.

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CassandraCain posted...

The final area in the dlc is one of my favorites in the entire series. Fishing Hamlet is such a cool place.

The final boss is a nightmare in every sense of the word.

Which one the main one or the optional one because that applies to both!

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The DLC has THREE bosses which can reasonably be placed on a short list of "greatest vg bosses ever".

At 92, I think you're fine in terms of level, but you'll still be in for a real challenge. The DLC bosses are relentless, and each area has some normal enemies that can easily ruin your day.

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Talked to a friend of mine and they also recommended just getting to the church pick and then hitting new game+ if I wanna experience it all together at once with the rest of the game.

Also said I could get to the Amagdyla Arm weapon by running through "a real fucking shitshow cave for assholes" and ignoring all the enemies inside.

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You can suicide run for a lot of weapons in the DLC like the Amygdala Arm in the party cave.

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You can also make a suicide run for the amygdala arm very early into a NG and use it for almost the entire game.

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Peace___Frog posted...

You can also make a suicide run for the amygdala arm very early into a NG and use it for almost the entire game.

This is what I did for the Whirligig Saw

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Beasthunter Saif is a very popular weapon, especially for DEX builds. You can snag it real early as well.

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I love the Saif and Beastcutter. Get those early

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Pirateking2000 posted...

Which one the main one or the optional one because that applies to both!

Very true! Except one is a good challenge while the other is trash that shouldn't exist lol

Whirligig Saw and Beasthunter Saif are fantastic and are easy to get yeah. The saw in particular simplifies a lot of encounters, I would consider it a cheap weapon.

The Saif's moveset is so stylish, one of my faves.

Don't like the Amygdala Arm at all, feels too clunky for me.

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seems like you've already moved on, but I'll answer anyway just because I like talking about bloodborne

level doesn't matter too much in bloodborne. huge differences in level can make an impact on difficulty, but it's less noticeable than you'd think. the DLC is some of the hardest content in the game. you are absolutely not going to just walk in there and steamroll the DLC after not playing the game for over a year just because you have a few extra points in some stats.

the most important one is vitality. if you have enough extra you can turn a potential two hit kill into a three hit kill, and this gives you more chances to mess up and still win fights. if your build stacks a lot of vitality the game will be more forgiving, but it won't actually get easier. blood vials will also restore (relatively) more health, which gives added value to each vial that you use.

the two biggest things that can influence your difficulty are weapon upgrade level, and blood gems. if your weapon is more fully upgraded, you will get more base damage but ALSO higher return on any investments. this is why it's fairly pointless to increase your damage stats (strength, skill) until later on when your weapon is more fully upgraded. additionally, blood gems are going to give a massive damage multiplier on top of this.

if you go into the DLC with fully upgraded weapons and top tier blood gems? yeah, it's going to be a little bit easier than it would otherwise be.

your other stats really only start to matter AFTER you have upgraded your weapons already. this is why level "doesn't matter." the one exception to this is arcane but it's a more complicated stat that I doubt you are using at all. and while bloodtinge is similarly complicated, guns are just like melee weapons. you can easily circumvent low stats by using the correct gun and fully upgrading it.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I don't actually even want to beat the DLC until the NG+

this is a terrible idea, btw

the DLC in particular massively spikes in difficulty in NG+

if you're trying to do it for the first time in NG+ you are going to have a pretty bad time. it doesn't add anything to the experience other than making the enemies have higher stats... which will just serve to frustrate you more as every encounter is less forgiving and requires more repetitions to win.

also being level 90 is not "severely overleveled"

severely overleveled is like... 150

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I haven't booted up my character yet since I went back to work before it finished installing, but I remember for sure that I didn't put a single point I to Arcane or Blood in my entire first run of the game, so my distribution should at least be decent. I don't think I put many more points into stats other than what weapons required either. Heck, back in those days I pretty much never put much care into scaling and always put everything into Health, Stamina, and whatever the defense/equip load Stat was for the game if necessary. DS2 got a little wierd, IIRC, since drink speed was a thing.

I have still to this day never even made a cursory attempt at a magic or status effect user in a Soulslike even in DS3 with the respecing.

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MariaTaylor posted...

this is a terrible idea, btw

the DLC in particular massively spikes in difficulty in NG+

if you're trying to do it for the first time in NG+ you are going to have a pretty bad time. it doesn't add anything to the experience other than making the enemies have higher stats... which will just serve to frustrate you more as every encounter is less forgiving and requires more repetitions to win.

It just feels wierd to play the DLC now if I I'm just gonna play it again, especially right before starting from the beginning.

Might change my mind before I actually start, though. I may be super rusty on Bloodborne specifically, but I'm....GOOD at these games in general, I like to think, except Sekiro which I am very bad at.


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The only issue there is that Endurance is a totally useless stat in this game. The best way to get resistances is to equip a rune. And no matter which starting class you picked, you will have more than enough stamina as long as you are playing the game correctly.

Any single point you put into Endurance is a wasted point. Which is sad because a lot of new-ish players will invest heavily into it since they love to spam the dodge button and keep running out of stamina.

Strength and Skill are actually good, just not early on. You do eventually want to get one or both of them up to 25... And then work toward 50 in your main damage dealing stat. In addition to having 50 Vigor, and however much Arcane you need to use the appropriate tools, this is pretty much the catch-all Bloodborne build that works for any character. (50 Vigor, 25 or 50 in Str/Skill, Arcane or Bloodtinge as needed for your guns and hunter tools you plan to use)

It's also really common for new-ish players to totally ignore blood gems which, as I mentioned above, are one of the two MOST important things. This is why I think you're likely to have a terrible time in NG+.

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MariaTaylor posted...

Any single point you put into Endurance is a wasted point. Which is sad because a lot of new-ish players will invest heavily into it since they love to spam the dodge button and keep running out of stamina.

Is this assuming use of a stamina Caryll Rune? I'll admit that it's been a little while since I've played, but I definitely seem to recall more stamina heavy weapons demanding some kind of investment, particularly if you care at all about PvP.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

Is this assuming use of an endurance Caryll Rune? I'll admit that it's been a little while since I've played, but I definitely seem to recall more stamina heavy weapons definitely needing some kind of investment, particularly if you care at all about PvP.

It's more useful for PvP, but also PvP in Bloodborne is like... basically not really a thing. The game has really poor servers and the PvP is super clunky on top of generally having worse latency than most other Souls-like games. Lastly, the person who has better blood gems is going to win in PvP more often than not. Having a few extra points in endurance is not going to save you when the other guy kills you in 2-3 hits and it takes you 6-10 hits to kill him. But if you really, really want to invest into endurance.... even then I wouldn't recommend going above... I don't even know. Some people say 20 but even that feels high to me. So many wasted points that could be used for HP or Damage.

And yeah normally I use one endurance rune and two health runes. But sometimes I swap out the endurance rune or the lower health rune if I need a specific resistance. In my last, I dunno, dozen or so builds I have not put any points into Endurance. And I've used every weapon in the game seriously at least once.

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Alright this is where I'm at.



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regarding the use of heavier, more stamina intensive weapons. because of the slow swing speed you generally won't be attacking as often. for this reason, while each individual swing takes more stamina, you still end up using about the same stamina overall. actually, I found that these types of weapons require even LESS stamina if they are used optimally.

one thing I will acknowledge is that I am a very high level challenge runner. I press the dodge button as little as possible, I time all of my attack chains, and I use very specific attack patterns and combinations. it's definitely "true" that any point of stamina is wasted -- at the highest level of play -- but I guess it's a bit hyperbolic for me to say something like that. I do think points invested into stamina are a bit of a waste, but ultimately people are going to get as much as they feel comfortable with. and lots of people dodge more than they need to, and they have uncomfortable tics which cause them to mash the dodge button or to do unneeded actions in between attack patterns, not counting their attack chains, etc. etc.

anyway I got a bit off topic but the other thing about the slow weapons is that often one of their best features is their CHARGE ATTACK. which is a single, big hit attack. it does drain a lot of stamina but you also have plenty of time to recover your stamina after you use it. because of this, running out of stamina is never an issue (once again -- if used correctly)

tl;dr if you're using one of the weapons with one of the high tier charge attacks you will knock the enemy down and then your stamina bar will recover before they finish standing back up. and you generally won't be mashing the attack button with such a weapon, so you don't need to worry about running out.


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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Alright this is where I'm at.

based on your build I wouldn't worry about having too easy of a time with the DLC. what weapon are you using? Ludwig Holy Blade?


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Yeah, I'll also advise you to reconsider waiting until NG+ to tackle the DLC. I did exactly that when it first came out, and there were parts where I almost gave up. It becomes so, so hard. First boss mighta taken me dozens of attempts. Granted I'm not a skilled player, but you haven't played in a year so you may be in the same boat.

EDIT: I'm biased af since Bloodborne is an all-time top tenner for me, but I encourage you to just start over so you can re-spec your character and so you don't put yourself through a brutal NG+ DLC. I generally agree with Lisel - don't touch any other stats until your VIT is at 30, and then you can level your STR and DEX such that you have the minimum requirements for the Church Pick or whichever main weapon you want to use. If you stick to VIT and upgrading your Saw Cleaver early on, you'll reach the DLC (and its weapons) way earlier than you think.

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Yeah, Ludwig. I remember I wanted to use Kirkhammer but it ended up being, uhhhh....bad. I also wanted to try Blades of Mercy which is why I did get SOME skill, and it just wasn't working out.

My general playstyle was circle, back attack once, circle, so I was in fact doing a lot of dodging which is prob why I did pump endurance to 30. Also explains my runes of choice I guess, lol.

Starting to sound like I should just do the DLC, though.

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Oh, and is there anything I should make sure to do before starting NG+ other than the DLC?

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

EDIT: I'm biased af since Bloodborne is an all-time top tenner for me, but I encourage you to just start over so you can re-spec your character and so you don't put yourself through a brutal NG+ DLC. I generally agree with Lisel - don't touch any other stats until your VIT is at 30, and then you can level your STR and DEX such that you have the minimum requirements for the Church Pick or whichever main weapon you want to use. If you stick to VIT and upgrading your Saw Cleaver early on, you'll reach the DLC (and its weapons) way earlier than you think.

I was going to say something like this as well, honestly. If you are planning to replay the game I would recommend just... replaying it on a new file and doing the DLC then. You're not likely to get much out of NG+, especially with this character.

Enemies are going to be punching you like you've got 50 Vit, you have 32. Enemies have HP bars that are expecting you to have 70+ points into damage dealing stats. You have only 51. The only stat you have that is "high" is endurance, which is the worst stat in the game.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

eah, Ludwig. I remember I wanted to use Kirkhammer but it ended up being, uhhhh....bad. I also wanted to try Blades of Mercy which is why I did get SOME skill, and it just wasn't working out.

My general playstyle was circle, back attack once, circle, so I was in fact doing a lot of dodging which is prob why I did pump endurance to 30. Also explains my runes of choice I guess, lol.

I like the Kirkhammer but it's basically just a slightly worse version of the Ludwig Holy Blade. And to top that off, I personally wouldn't recommend the LHB to new players. I understand why it's such an overrated weapon and why so many people flock to it. it promotes, encourages, and reinforces a very simplistic playstyle that allows people to succeed at the game even if they aren't very good at it.

but I also believe that it heavily limits players and prevents them from learning important skills that they should be developing to get better at the core gameplay.

pre-emptive attacking and spacing are often much better strategies than circle strafing, but they also require you to learn a bit more about the enemies you're fighting -- and you can't use the same tactics for every enemy. LHB is generally bad for pre-emptive attacking, and only decent for spacing.


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Man I really, really want to play the game with these late game weapons though. Like it's the entire reason I'm wanting to pick up Bloodborne again to begin with.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh, and is there anything I should make sure to do before starting NG+ other than the DLC?

I'm a big advocate for allowing your first playthrough to just be that, a first playthrough. it's more fun if you make a second character, have a better understanding of how to play the game and how to build a character, and then worry about finding all the stuff you missed the first time through.

bloodborne also has three endings, and expects you to view all three for "completion," so I believe Miyazaki probably has similar thoughts to me when it comes to this. he likely designed the game with the idea that people would play it multiple times. and this also matches with the high skill ceiling and learning curve of the game -- even compared to other souls games.

I don't think I even really got "good" at bloodborne until partially through my third run.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Man I really, really want to play the game with these late game weapons though. Like it's the entire reason I'm wanting to pick up Bloodborne again to begin with.

that I do understand. I wish there was a way to unlock more weapons earlier on in the game. but I assume there are probably some early game weapons that you haven't used yet? you can use those until Amelia, then go into the DLC immediately and pick up a new weapon there.


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I straight up disagree with the "lol just start over" mentality - his character's not that bad. If you don't care about PvP then there's really no possible way to fuck your character since you can just keep leveling up to an unreasonable point. And his only real issues are underprioritizing VIT, overprioritizng END and splitting his damage. It's not like he maxed out bloodtinge and arcane at the cost of everything else.

Frankly the game's not hard enough to warrant the level of perfection the two of you are advocating for.

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Also I hope Elden Ring sticks with what DS3 did and hides a respec in there somewhere, because wow would that ever solve a lot.

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Man, I remember my Bloodtinge character where I was determined to get the Chikage as early as possible. What an exercise that was.

But yeah, I'm sure you can jump in right now and beat the DLC without TOO much agony (all bets are off if it's NG+), but a part of me also suspects that you want these new weapons to be effective, and unfortunately, they won't be as good as Ludwig's Holy Blade without the proper prep and practice. LHB is THE cheese of Bloodborne. It's the way I got through my first run and definitely the easiest weapon to just pick up and find success with. Your STR/DEX breakdown as it currently is also works better for LHB than for a DEX weapon like the Church Pick.

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UGH now I'm torn.

Because theoretically it's looking like I can get to some of the weapons I want without beating Ludwig, which means I could go into the DLC in a new game whenever it first unlocks to rush for them even if I'm not strong enough for the area yet, right? I don't know when the DLC unlocks, though.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

I straight up disagree with the "lol just start over" mentality - his character's not that bad.

this is not what I said. I said IF he is going to replay the game anyway, he might as well just experience the DLC on a fresh file along with a fresh playthrough. if he's not going to start over, then he just needs to do the DLC before he goes into NG+

he's using the ludwig holy blade and his attack rating is under 600

and his HP is EXTREMELY low

I feel like you're really underplaying, or you just don't understand, how bad that is. especially trying to play the DLC, for the first time, in NG+

Xiahou Shake posted...

If you don't care about PvP then there's really no possible way to fuck your character since you can just keep leveling up to an unreasonable point.

I don't think anyonecares about PvP in bloodborne. also every level will require progressively more and more blood echoes. he's already overleveled and his build is far below where it should be in terms of HP and damage even if he was level 80ish

do you really understand the amount of effort it would take to fix such a build?

Xiahou Shake posted...

And his only real issues are underprioritizing VIT, overprioritizng END and splitting his damage.

he underprioritized the most important stat and way overprioritzed the least important stat...

his Str/Skill being split is not even a problem since he's using LHB. the issue is with how low they both are. at least he can get a bit more damage by pushing skill to 25 but after that it's going to become expensive, and his HP is VERY low.

Xiahou Shake posted...

Frankly the game's not hard enough to warrant the level of perfection the two of you are advocating for.

I'm not advocating that he play the game perfectly. but a comprehensive knowledge of the game can help make the experience better at all levels of play, even lower levels of play. I'm sharing detailed, relevant knowledge. if he wants to ignore it, that's fine.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Because theoretically it's looking like I can get to some of the weapons I want without beating Ludwig, which means I could go into the DLC in a new game whenever it first unlocks to rush for them even if I'm not strong enough for the area yet, right? I don't know when the DLC unlocks, though.

You can go right after you beat Amelia. although the enemies there will be very difficult for you, it should be possible to run around and pick up items. I don't know how fun this would actually be. but it is possible. and you find upgrade materials in there, too.


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The main reason I'd recommend a fresh file in that case is because NG+ DLC really is that brutal, especially for a blind run.

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If I start from scratch, what should be my priority in order? Should I put ANY points into strength or dex past minimum requirements before pumping up Vigor?

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