Board 8 > Bloodborne DLC question plz

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#251
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MariaTaylor
07/09/20 10:02:46 PM
#252:


amygdala is both weak to bloodtinge damage and highly susceptible to ranged attacks.

it's one of those 'the right tool for the right job' encounters. personally, even if I'm doing a build with minimum bloodtinge, I still consider getting a max upgraded gun just for stuff like this. a fully upgraded gun is also fantastic for dealing with the winter lanterns. might have already mentioned this earlier in the topic, can't remember. but you can take one of the most frustrating enemies in the game for a casual player and just gun them down without even getting touched.

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Peace___Frog
07/09/20 10:10:58 PM
#253:


I'm unfamiliar with dealing with the winter lanterns with a gun. Are they susceptible to blood damage?

A lot of bosses are jokes if you get to them later than normal. Cleric Beast is hilarious to watch in All Bosses Speedruns because each attack takes off huge chunks of health.

Amgdala in the chalice dungeons is a lot more difficult simply because there's less space available to play with.

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MariaTaylor
07/09/20 10:17:42 PM
#254:


Peace___Frog posted...
I'm unfamiliar with dealing with the winter lanterns with a gun. Are they susceptible to blood damage?

not particularly compared to other forms of damage. it's a combination of a few factors.

  1. the sheer advantage of attacking at range. the winter latern can't actually attack you or deal any damage to you if you don't get close. and if you kill it fast enough
  2. the WORST thing that can happen is that your frenzy meter builds up and you take 90% damage... but then the winter lantern is dead, and you just heal yourself.
  3. most people do not play the game with fully upgraded guns, due to the shortage of upgrade materials. a +6 gun with mediocre damage is going to take like 20-25 shots to kill a winter latern. obviously, when trying this out, you're going to "learn" that using a gun doesn't work against them, which gives even more reason not to upgrade your gun since you think it's useless. but remember, most weapons spike in power from +7 to +9, and guns are no different.
  4. compounding this issue, a lot of people use their gun to slot the health regeneration rune. another thing that causes their gun to do much less damage.
basically you just have to actually approach the fight with a +9 or +10 gun, appropriate for your build, with a suitable blood gem slotted in. this will give you the damage needed to kill a winter lantern very quickly with a gun. and if you can do it fast enough, they have a 0% chance of killing you. at worst, you'll spend 1 blood vial and maybe a handful of bullets per winter lantern... to completely eliminate the risk of trying to fight them in close quarters. for me, this is always a worthwhile trade.

(edit: also make sure to use bone marrow ash on your first shot. the hunter pistol, repeating pistol, and evelyn all get 2.55x damage from BMA buffed shots. these would be the guns you should be choosing between, depending on your build. and this will absolutely chunk their health with the opening shot. it might even be worth reloading and firing a few BMA shots rather than firing a bunch of small shots, depending on how fast you can kill them)


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CassandraCain
07/10/20 1:48:29 AM
#255:


imo learning the parry timing for winter lanterns is the best way to deal with them. You waste nothing but a single bullet that way, since the frenzy meter will fill right as you're in the riposte animation which negates the damage.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 1:55:07 AM
#256:


I would literally rather fight any enemy in any Souls game over a Whale Shark.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 2:10:09 AM
#257:


Christ.

Literally more heart wrenching and exhausting than any boss fight in the game.

Did it but I feel like I'm about to pass out.

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MariaTaylor
07/10/20 7:43:12 AM
#258:


CassandraCain posted...
imo learning the parry timing for winter lanterns is the best way to deal with them. You waste nothing but a single bullet that way, since the frenzy meter will fill right as you're in the riposte animation which negates the damage.

I don't disagree with this at all. I just tend to prefer low risk strategies over 'optimal' strategies. or, to me, my definition of optimal is usually the one that gives the least amount of risk. that's why I mention above that I'd rather spend more bullets to kill them in a position where they have a 0% chance of harming me.

the chance of getting killed isn't worth the difference of 5 QS Bullets and a Blood Vial since I have plenty of both of those things.

UshiromiyaEva posted...
I would literally rather fight any enemy in any Souls game over a Whale Shark.

yeahhh.... they are among the small group of enemies that I still have no consistent strategy for dealing with. though I plan to change that with this playthrough. part of the reason I've been going through everything so slowly is that I've been refining and developing strategies for things that I was 'weak' against before.


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xp1337
07/10/20 7:49:36 AM
#259:


I know in my NG++ playthrough when I went to the Bottom of the Well I think I was starting to get the hang of parry timing on them though it's still dangerous given the nature of that encounter. I forget how I approached that fight completely but I was starting to get fairly good at it.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 11:39:47 AM
#260:


It doesn't help that on a regular playthrough they're no way to get more Shaman Bone Blades since it requires a Chalice Dungeon Badge.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 12:17:12 PM
#261:


The Rakuyo...this is clearly very good, but there's a lot going on here.

Since I'm at 40/50/50 now, wondering if there would be a worthwhile investment amount for Arcane since I can finally use paper coatings again.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 12:21:35 PM
#262:


Mergo's Wet Nurse, the ultimate combination of being aesthetically cool while functionally nothing.

Hm, wait, maybe Dragon God.

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MariaTaylor
07/10/20 12:22:49 PM
#263:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
It doesn't help that on a regular playthrough they're no way to get more Shaman Bone Blades since it requires a Chalice Dungeon Badge.

... you only have to clear central pthumeru. it's like one of the first few chalices...

UshiromiyaEva posted...
Since I'm at 40/50/50 now, wondering if there would be a worthwhile investment amount for Arcane since I can finally use paper coatings again.

fire paper and bolt paper both give a flat bonus to damage. they don't gain anything from investment into arcane.

if you're trying to stay at a certain level, there's probably no room in your build for arcane. if you're going to reach 50 vit, 50 skill, and 50 bloodtinge and you still want to keep gaining levels... hmmm... honestly, there are two schools of thought. 18 arcane would give access to the augur of ebrietas, but it's admittedly less important when you have such strong options for guns. it does have some utility value but it won't help too much with damage compared to everything else you can do. the other choice is to start putting points into strength. even skill weapons gain a little bit of extra damage from a strength investment, and strength will see relatively large gains up to 25 points.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 12:25:00 PM
#264:


Gotcha, thought they might get some effect.

The skill weapons I'm sticking with are either 0 or E in strength scaling, but I may get it to +25 just in case I ever try out something else.

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MariaTaylor
07/10/20 12:25:48 PM
#265:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
Mergo's Wet Nurse, the ultimate combination of being aesthetically cool while functionally nothing.

they had to make a choice, unfortunately. because around half of the content in bloodborne is optional... you were either going to have endgame bosses who were too difficult to defeat unless you went and grinded all of the optional content, which wouldn't be fun for casual players. or, what we got -- the endgame bosses are pretty well adjusted for difficult for a casual run. but as soon as you start exploring the DLC and going into the optional areas, you're going to come back and find the endgame bosses are too weak to challenge you.

especially since the BIGGEST power spike is from the +6 to +9 weapon upgrade, which occurs during this end of game time period.

just keep in mind that mergo's wet nurse is adjusted to challenge players who have missed most of the optional content, and it's a bit easier to accept. the only thing about it that disappoints me is that she doesn't appear in the chalice. if there was a leveled up chalice version that I could battle, I'd be a lot happier. having fought her before with challenge characters and lower level quick runs, I know that she can be a challenging boss. it's just when your HP and damage is too high, it ruins the fun.


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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 12:32:11 PM
#266:


True, though even at lower levels her attack patterns are so manageable. She's the ultimate just attack her booty boss, and she constantly uses moves that leave her exposed to strafe around. Even at lower levels, the only 2 things that I think can cause real problems are:

A) Not knowing you're just supposed to dodge during the fog clone part (which she didn't even get to do during my last playthrough, Whirligig so borked)

B) Not staying healed up in case you get fucked with positioning on the forward momentum swings.

I was gonna say her spinning move can catch you as well, but it's has one of the most obvious tells for which direction to dodge in the game.

All that to say I don't actually hate Mergo's Wet Nurse because it's still just really cool. On a first playthrough that intro had me hyped as fuck.

B)

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MariaTaylor
07/10/20 12:39:30 PM
#267:


Yeah the fog clone part is fairly dangerous, and you become more susceptible to it if your damage is lower. Imagine having to survive through that phase two separate times and having less of an idea of how to manage her normal attack patterns. I do agree it's fairly easy to get and stay behind her, but she also has attacks that hit behind herself so it's not 100% safe. The spinning attack at least has a delay on it, so it'll catch players off guard.

And if you imagine someone with a +9 or even a +8 weapon trying to do this, likely with a sub-optimal build, her difficulty level makes a lot more sense. This is actually going to be a fairly common experience for a first playthrough. People who post about games on message boards and learn everything there is to know are actually pretty rare in the grand scheme of things. Especially on their first playthrough, most will try to beat it without any help.

Though, ultimately, I'm still disappointed at the lack of a chalice version. One Reborn I understand, since his battle requires a special arena set up. I guess I can imagine that doing the fog phase would have been difficult in a chalice set up, but I still would have liked to fight a beefed up version of Mergo's Wet Nurse without needing to go into NG+

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 1:33:16 PM
#268:


I've heard Amygdala on the Chalice Dungeons is a very different experience.

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MariaTaylor
07/10/20 2:10:44 PM
#269:


Mm... Generally people are referring to Amygdala in the Defiled Chalice when they mention that. There's a few factors that go into this.

First, by the time you get to Depth 4-5 in the Chalice, the difficulty has already scaled up to the point of being on par with NG+ material. Being able to access this content in your normal NG cycle means a lot of players are going to walk into this totally unprepared. See above the 'not too uncommon' player I was describing, the guy with a +8 or +9 weapon and a crap build. This version of Amygdala is already going to hit hard enough to actually be a threat, and has enough HP that you can't just kill it instantly like the one you find in the Nightmare Frontier.

Secondly, the Defiled Chalice has an interesting mechanic that can make certain encounters more difficult. Your max HP is cut in half, and the physical damage you take is reduced accordingly. This means that elemental and magical attacks deal effectively TWICE as much damage. Many magical, fire, and bolt attacks you find in a Defiled Chalice will outright oneshot your character.

While this isn't a huge deal with Amygdala, since many of its attacks are physical, this does make the dungeon itself very difficult. And it does have magical laser attacks -- easy to dodge, but fatal if you mess it up. I'd actually say the bigger challenge is the Defiled Watchdog and Defiled Keeper, who spam fire damage. Even their chip damage attacks can chunk your health bar, and you're susceptible to being oneshot if you make one wrong move.

But yeah, Defiled Amygdala does have a reputation for being difficult, and for good reason. The Defiled Chalice is about as hard as NG+, and is up there with the DLC as some of the most difficult content you can access in a base NG cycle. Too many players have wandered in there with no idea what they were getting themselves into, leading to the (rightfully earned) reputation for difficulty.

I'd also add this issue is even exacerbated by how easy Amygdala can be in the main campaign. You didn't learn how to fight this boss the fight time because you just shot it in the head 2 times and it died. But when you have to actually fight it, you have no idea what to do...

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UshiromiyaEva
07/10/20 2:51:02 PM
#270:


And that's another run down.

Main takeaway from Bloodtinge/Skill vs Strength run; minute to minute gameplay is better with Strength, but Skill/Blood had higher highs.

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MariaTaylor
07/10/20 6:16:24 PM
#271:


Interesting. I'm not sure what the comparison is there, but it's always fun to see what other people think.

An update on my end...

Went ahead and cleared Yaharghul and the Nightmare of Mensis all in one go, more or less. Once you're already at your target level and you have more items stocked than you could ever need, there's no real reason to go back to the hunter's dream no matter how many blood echoes you have collected along the way.

This was probably my best fight against the Yaharghul Gank Squad, like, ever. The ultimate dominance of the Saw Spear and Saw Cleaver as my main weapons, with the added utility of arcane tools to keep them at bay, made the fight really, really clean.

One Reborn... Okay, so I'm going to keep this in mind for my next Arcane Item only challenge. Holy hell does the Flamesprayer completely melt this guy. I was using a +6 Flamesprayer, even -- still haven't upgraded any of my weapons past +6 -- and the damage output on him was still INSANE. If I have it at +9 as one of my only upgraded weapons, it's going to drain his HP bar so fast. Really looking forward to it.

I found a really efficient route where you run past and ignore everything at the bottom of the tower of mensis, fight micolash, go down the elevator and jump off to fight the winter lanterns. after you get rid of the brain and drop down to get the blood rock, you'll be back near the elevator that takes you to the bottom... coincidentally right on the far side of the loop. from here, you can run around the entire base level with no more brain to worry about, and pick up all of the items in one swoop. you also end up right back near the spot where you should go down to Make Contact with the brain of mensis after completing the loop.

also on taking advice posted earlier in this topic, I decided to just mess around and try to actually parry the winter lanterns. wow, I was doing myself a huge disservice in the past. they are very, very easy to parry. it took me like 30 seconds and two tries to figure it out. so yeah, parrying them is definitely the best way. it helps that I am playing a minimum BLT build, so my usual strategy of using a gun to kill them is at the least effective it can possibly be.


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CassandraCain
07/11/20 11:00:02 PM
#272:


Started my bloodtinge character and actually succeeded in using the werewolf in the beginning to clip through the gate (it took me like 20 tries) so I could instantly get the Cainhurst summons. Also went into the shadowed woods early which I guess breaks Eileen's questline. Unfortunate. She's the only npc that matters.

Now I have the Reiterpallasch super early in the game and it's kinda neat... Not sure how I feel about it, might use it until I feel comfortable going for mah blood katana

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MariaTaylor
07/12/20 12:28:47 AM
#273:


I've seen the werewolf clip. Wanted to try it out myself but I just haven't done it yet.

Generally not the type who uses skips and stuff anyway... If I did it, it'd really just be for the novelty haha

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#274
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#275
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Peace___Frog
07/12/20 7:47:02 AM
#276:


Defiled amygdala is difficult because there's so many places for you to screw up. Tons of hp, gotta be patient.

Defiled watchdog is difficult because even if you have a lot of hp, and the runes equipped, and fire resistance, you are still likely to get one shot by some attacks.

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MariaTaylor
07/12/20 8:35:27 PM
#277:


Ailing Loran cleared
Went and took out Ludwig, I got my Holy Moonlight sword but I need to go get a variant with a better gem set up
The Tonitrus continues to be one of the most consistently powerful weapons in my arsenal...

Peace___Frog posted...
Defiled watchdog is difficult because even if you have a lot of hp, and the runes equipped, and fire resistance, you are still likely to get one shot by some attacks.

this is pretty much accurate. although this might sound weird, but I actually appreciate this. battles like this forced me to get really good at the game, in a way that none of the other content could have possibly challenged me. I love the chalice dungeons for exactly this reason. I can more or less always beat the watchdog without ever getting hit, and this is because I've battled him in a situation where that needed to be the case.

and the skills to win this fight actually transfer over to general bloodborne play and just make you better at the game overall. like learning about spacing, safe attacking, safe healing rather than just face tanking damage while spamming overpowered blood vials. the power of trick attacks and knowing the range and tracking of every attack in your move set. stuff like that.

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Peace___Frog
07/12/20 9:33:57 PM
#278:


Oh for sure, I'm glad it exists. But people who don't have that mindset aren't going to enjoy it at all!

I'm right at the Shadows, the only dlc bit I've done so far is unlocking the Simon shortcut and getting the shards along the way. I'm finding the tonitrus to be really bland moveset wise, but that damage is nutty. At +6, only using gems I've found in the game (haven't done any chalices yet), and 25 arcane, I was three shotting the large snakes. The hunters outside Amelia's cathedral also went down so much easier than I ever remember.

I've decided to make my secondary an beast cutter, which actually will seem to matter for this run. The Tony has way lower durability than other weapons I've used a lot, so my whole "don't go back to the dream every time it's convenient, just keep powering on and don't worry about losing blood echoes" strategy gets really tense! Losing damage plus using an unfamiliar moveset is really spicing things up.

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MariaTaylor
07/12/20 9:48:16 PM
#279:


Your build will really spike in power once you start to explore the chalices, or at least run around in the nightmare frontier a bit. Once you get a few elemental gems you'll be able to set up a second, third, or even fourth weapon. You pretty much nailed the two biggest problems with the tonitrus. The move set is SO basic, and the low durability can give you limited usage of the weapon. But yeah, with minimal investment into making it actually good, it's still the strongest of my current weapons. It's hard to justify not using the Tonitrus when it's SO good.

I'm currently carrying FOUR around most of the time.

Saw Cleaver - Uses my best Bolt damage gems. Good for general usage.
Lost Saw Spear - Uses my second best Fire get set up. Good for general usage against fire weak or bolt resistant foes.
Saw Spear - Uses my best Fire gem set up. I equip this when going into a boss room. Cursed to have low durability.
Tonitrus - Uses my best Physical gem set up. I equip this when going into a boss room. Has low durability naturally.

Basically the first two are for exploring areas and floors, have plenty of durability and I can use them to fight normal enemies along the way.

The second two are my optimal fire and bolt damage respectively, and I save these for once I get to the boss. When exploring a chalice floor you don't always know what's waiting beyond the fog gate, bu generally either my fire saw spear or my physical tonitrus set up is a viable weapon.

The main reason I'm doing a physical set up for Tonitrus is because it gets bonus elemental damage, and a huge amount of arcane scaling already. Now ideally later on I'll be able to get gems that boost all damage, for higher physical AND bolt damage, but for right now it actually makes sense to increase the base physical damage as much as possible and just rely on my arcane stat for the bolt scaling.

For my arcane tools I literally have to change my set up depending on what boss I'm fighting. The Tiny Tonitrus is really good in a lot of cases, but I really appreciate having the Executioner's Glove available for usage as well. I've actually noticed a trend of bosses who resist volt damage tending to be susceptible to the Executioner's Gloves, so that's pretty cool.

Also took down Ebrietas and got my Isz Chalice.

The fact that I'm staying at a fixed, relatively low level and keeping all my weapons at +6 has started to make some of these bosses pretty legitimately challenging. But I'm having fun as a result. I was still able to hit her pretty hard with the Tiny Tonitrus, I think each cast was doing around 1200 damage so I saved it for the end of the fight and used it to chip away at her health once she got more dangerous and aggressive. Ended the fight with like 4 vials and 3 QS Bullets.

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Peace___Frog
07/13/20 9:44:38 AM
#280:


I'm not capping myself, my ps+ expired so no online for me.

If I warm up to the beast cutter then maybe I'll do the dungeons, but honestly I wasn't planning on it for this run. Maybe if the Moonlight sword is fun then I could see myself going down there to have fun with that as well.

Question - if you use a gem to convert a weapon's damage to arcane, will it still scale off of strength at all? Or is it only off of arcane?

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MariaTaylor
07/13/20 12:20:29 PM
#281:


Just cleared the Defiled Watchdog. Finally had to cave and upgrade my weapon from +6 to +9 because... Yeah. He just has so much HP and it's a fight where there is no room for error. The difference between needing 80 hits to kill him and 60 hits to kill him saves a lot of frustration.

Peace___Frog posted...
Question - if you use a gem to convert a weapon's damage to arcane, will it still scale off of strength at all? Or is it only off of arcane?

Arcane scaling only. It completely removes the strength and skill scaling, and replaces it with arcane scaling.

This applies to Fire, Bolt, and Arcane damage.

It ONLY works with weapons that have pure physical damage.

If the weapon already has Physical AND Arcane damage (holy moonlight sword, tonitrus, boom hammer, etc.) then there is no way to do a conversion. The weapon will always scale with both, and there's no way to make it 100% phys or 100% arcane.


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MariaTaylor
07/13/20 8:36:36 PM
#282:


and Defiled Amygdala is down

Now all that's left is:
Lower Loran
Isz
Pthumeru Ihyll

Research Lab
Fishing Hamlet

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UshiromiyaEva
07/13/20 8:54:38 PM
#283:


Thinking about doing DS:R for a bit and have absolutely no idea where to even start with that. I've never actually made true build attempts, just self taught. Maybe now I finally do a spell build?


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MariaTaylor
07/13/20 8:59:58 PM
#284:


Mm... I doubt I could give you any useful advice there, unfortunately. My familiarity with the game mechanics of the souls games is like

Bloodborne >> Dark Souls 2 > Dark Souls 3 > Demon's Souls >> Dark Souls 1

So yeah, of all the games, I am probably the least qualified to give advice on builds and mechanical tips when it comes to DS1.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/13/20 10:09:18 PM
#285:


Bah, Ghosts if Tsushima will be out in a few days anyways, should just wait.

Maybe I will do Dark Souls 2 instead once I do get back to it. Always wanted to give it another shake.

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Peace___Frog
07/13/20 11:20:56 PM
#286:


I didn't realize ghosts was coming so soon. Huh.

Unpopular opinion, I think that ds2 is the most fun to replay of the souls games. If you're really attached to ds1/des it can be jarring, and there's a number of things about ds2 that aren't my favorite (a number of the bosses are quite dull). That being said, ds2 has incredible build diversity, fashion, secrets/ exploration, new ideas, covenants/online (unfortunately not as active as they used to be, but ds2 pvp/coop was my favorite ever), and dlc's. "Gank squad" complaints are overblown imo, with smart positioning it's plenty doable solo.

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UshiromiyaEva
07/13/20 11:40:50 PM
#287:


My issue with DS2 fundamentally is stay bloat. It's like the exact opposite of Bloodborne.

Like, an Estus Drinking Stat christ.

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#288
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UshiromiyaEva
07/14/20 12:17:38 AM
#289:


Oh, did go back and play a few hours of Sekiro. I used to not understand the argument at all, but I 100% understand people who say that game isn't part of the Soulsborne series now. All the similarities are superficial.

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Xiahou Shake
07/14/20 12:52:40 AM
#290:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
Oh, did go back and play a few hours of Sekiro. I used to not understand the argument at all, but I 100% understand people who say that game isn't part of the Soulsborne series now. All the similarities are superficial.
Thank you

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MariaTaylor
07/14/20 5:16:26 PM
#291:


I like dark souls 2 but I no longer have the energy needed to defend the game.

As for my bloodborne progress, I'm now bringing back 300k blood echoes from clearing one floor in Lower Loran.

Cleared the research hall and defeated the living failures. I think I did everything that is possible to do on a first visit, but I honestly can't remember how you get the key to open the door to the lumenflower garden so I might be missing something.


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UshiromiyaEva
07/14/20 5:23:04 PM
#292:


It's from the quest with the girl you have to feed Brain Fluid to.

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MariaTaylor
07/14/20 5:54:29 PM
#293:


Okay, that's what I was thinking. I'm probably still going to look up the details later because I think I missed one of the brain fluids anyway.

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BK_Sheikah00
07/14/20 6:06:28 PM
#294:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
It's from the quest with the girl you have to feed Brain Fluid to.
Did you now she's KanaHana in Japan

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UshiromiyaEva
07/14/20 6:25:21 PM
#295:


Mayuri could use more brain fluid

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ACAB
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UshiromiyaEva
07/14/20 6:26:36 PM
#296:


I played half an hour of Dark Souls 1 today and JESUS THIS BOY CHUNKY

Tried to figure out why the Mace's attack string wasn't working, turns out it doesn't have one.

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ACAB
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UshiromiyaEva
07/15/20 2:28:12 PM
#297:


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Peace___Frog
07/15/20 3:43:00 PM
#298:


If i didn't despise funko then maybe I'd consider it!

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~Peaf~
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UshiromiyaEva
07/15/20 3:49:50 PM
#299:


That's my dilemma.

Forget eyes on the inside, you need better eyes on the out.

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ACAB
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MariaTaylor
07/15/20 6:55:43 PM
#300:


Turns out I didn't miss any of the brain fluids. You get the third one from Adeline herself, and the only way to advance the quest is to keep leaving the area and coming back. Okay, I sort of remember this now. But I guess I'm not surprised that I forgot.

Will be fighting Lady Maria shortly, and probably clearing at least one more floor of a chalice dungeon tonight.

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all the rest weren't so unfortunate
https://imgur.com/yv2eC4n
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