Board 8 > Bloodborne DLC question plz

(+) Yeah! (+)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

If I start from scratch, what should be my priority in order? Should I put ANY points into strength or dex past minimum requirements before pumping up Vigor?

VIT to 30 before anything else gets touched. It really is the best early-game investment and probably the most important investment outright. At that point, you may have a good idea about which main weapon you wanna run with, so check the minimum requirements there and level STR/DEX accordingly. Once you can wield that weapon... honestly it's not a bad idea to take VIT all the way to 40 before pumping more into STR/DEX. You can take VIT all the way to 50 before diminishing returns become awful, but I'd say 40 is a good point before you start to pump STR/DEX to 25.

One cool thing about the DLC is that the very first regular enemy you'll encounter - who is a bastard - can drop gems that are excellent quality for that point in the game, assuming you enter the DLC as soon as you can. Those gems will keep your weapon quite strong even if your STR/DEX isn't beefy by that point.

EDIT some mo': generally speaking, your late-game stats will look something like this, assuming you pick a STR or DEX weapon:

VIT: 50
END: base (although I'd start putting levels into this before BLD or ARC)
STR: 25-50
DEX: 25-50
BLD: base
ARC: base

If you ever grow addicted and try different builds, Arcane is the one stat you can actually level to 99. Your magic spells at 99 become insane, but the early game for an Arcane build is tough times.

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Vigor at the start

Str/Skill as needed to equip your weapons

Once your Vigor gets to about 30, you can put it on hold for a while

Use your spare blood echoes along the way to BUY BLOOD VIALS

otherwise you'll be one of many players bitching later on about how you "need" to grind for blood vials in this game, when you really don't. As long as you keep buying them every time you have extra blood echoes, you'll be fine.

focus on finding upgrade materials for your weapon. this is how you will get more damage. at around +7, you will start to see your stats matter. one point of strength can give 4+ points of damage, instead of only 1-2 points of damage.

make sure you pick up some blood gems along the way. there are SOME in the base game, but the good ones are mostly in the back half. you can get them by doing the chalice dungeons. as Gehrman says, when the beasts loom large, seek the holy chalice. alternately, since you're doing the DLC anyway, you should be aware that enemies in the first area of the DLC can drop pretty solid blood gems.

+10-15% damage in all three slots will make a HUGE difference for your damage output, and these are not even great gems. but they're good enough to matter a lot.

Once you gave a +7 weapon and three decent blood gems, then start investing into damage. soft caps are 25, hard caps are 50.

if you feel like enemies are hitting you really hard, put extra points into vigor.

you'll want to slowly raise from 30 to 50 vigor, but you also need to pick up damage along the way. and your damage is going to start going up VERY fast. especially once your weapon hits +9 or +10 and the damage scaling is increased along with the base damage.

if you have a hard time swinging your weapon enough times in a row to kill a weak enemy, consider upgrading your endurance a little bit. 16 or 18 points is what I'd consider to be pretty high, but I'm also a player who is very skilled and efficient. just remember that higher damage will let you kill the enemy with fewer swings. more HP will make it so that a failed dodge is less of a big deal. but more stamina doesn't do ANYTHING for you unless you are constantly draining your stamina to 0.

if you want to try something more complex -- 18 Arcane is a solid investment, for the Augur of Ebrietas, the BEST Hunter Tool in the game. it has two very important effects of trick weapons combined into one fast item that uses no stamina. it has just as much knock-down effect as a fully charged "heavy" type weapon, allowing you to push enemies back and knock them down. and the kicker? if you hit an enemy from behind it will stagger them and set them up for a backstab. instantly. without needing to fully hold down R2 to charge your weapon. it's crazy how overpowered and useful it is. this is also enough Arcane to use the Beast Roar which can be used to knock down most enemies and gives you a few seconds to recover your stamina whenever you need to.

you can also pick up some high +20%ish gems later on in the main story as well, if you search all of the lategame areas.

I think that covers everything.


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CaptainOfCrush posted...

but the early game for an Arcane build is tough times.

in my opinion this is a very common misconception. early game arcane is not only doable, it's actually pretty easy. saw cleaver with minimum strength and skill is still a beastly weapon. the molotov cocktails and the flamesprayer also completely destroy the early game bosses... especially if you are investing in the arcane stat.

one of the challenge runs I've done is an arcane item/tool only challenge. I've killed gascoigne using only oil urns and molotov cocktails. and believe me, I was not ready for just how fast you can melt the blood starved beast and vicar amelia if you are using the flame sprayer, legitimately, as your main method of attack.

it's not too long after this where you start to get elemental gems that allow you to convert your saw cleaver (or weapon of choice) into a fire weapon, and this also makes them scale fully on the arcane stat regardless of how low your str/skill is. on top of this you have the absolutely broken augur of ebrietas to rely on, and your other hunter tools will be good in specific situations -- to the point where you don't even need to use your melee weapon very much.


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Right away I have run into an issue where my Blood Echoes just aren't there when I return to where I die.

Starting great <_<

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Oh wait, I totally forgot the purple eyes mechanic existed.

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I had something all typed up then my phone deleted it... rip

Tldr - don't concern yourself too much with optimal play, feel free to do suicide runs after Amelia (though I'm unsure if you'll like the arm, given your dislike of the kirkhammer), and if you have any questions we're here to help.

If you can stomach the chalices, that's where you'll generally find the best blood gems. You can also get over leveled very easily from them if you gave any blood echoes runes on. All the more reason for you to not sweat doing something "wrong".

Lastly, if you get back to the dream and don't have enough echoes to level up, buying vials is never a bad idea.

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Playing DS3 was definitely a detriment.

I keep using Blood Vials when trying to change weapon modes.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I keep using Blood Vials when trying to change weapon modes.

You should get past this pretty quickly, but still pretty common. I think they did this on purpose to troll players or something. For me I tend to have the opposite problem where if I try to go back to playing other Souls games and I want to heal myself, my character just stands there fiddling their their weapon.

Peace___Frog posted...

Tldr - don't concern yourself too much with optimal play, feel free to do suicide runs after Amelia (though I'm unsure if you'll like the arm, given your dislike of the kirkhammer), and if you have any questions we're here to help.

If you plan to go this route, here are the weapons you'll have 'easy' access to.

Beast Cutter: You can get this pretty quickly. People compare it to the threaded cane but with strength scaling. I think... the comparison is really aesthetic at best, and even then it's still a little flimsy. The TC biggest problem is lack of hard hitting, while this weapon actually hits hard. The TC also tends to feel like it doesn't reach quite as far as you want it to, while this weapon has a really good feel for reach. Basically this weapon is more like what you'd want the threaded cane to actually be. In addition to this, the non-trick forms play totally different and the beast cutter is a solid one handed weapon option that doesn't use the same sword moveset or sprite as the other one handed swords in the base game. Solid B tier.

Boom Hammer: You'll pick this up naturally as you progress through the level. It has a similar problem to the Tonitrus where the moveset feels pretty limited in what the weapon can actually do. Your L1 button is reserved for buffing the weapon and you don't have a trick form, just a buffed form. It improves upon those issues a little bit, giving some slight variety to the moveset, but... The thing about the Tonitrus is that it's a TOP tier weapon, despite being boring. It's worth using because of how good it is. The Boom Hammer is NOT a top tier weapon. The buff has to be re-applied constantly, and the weapon doesn't land elementally buffed hits as frequently. The charge attack may be worth investigating but I doubt it compares favorably to stuff like the Hunter's Axe. Simple is better. It's probably C tier.

Amygdalan Arm: This one will require you to get into a side area, but thankfully you don't have to get back out. Once you've picked up the arm, even if you die to all of the chaotic shit in there, you'll be fine. There's also lots of upgrade materials in the cave. This weapon has a bit of a delay on its attack patterns which can make it feel unsatisfying to use. It's a fun alternative option for an arcane/strength build, but... it's definitely not in the A or B tier of weapons.

Beasthunter Saif: This one is a little further in and will require a good amount of 'running past' stuff to reach it. It's a skill based weapon that promotes a unique playstyle. The Saif has a longer wind-up before your initial attack, and more of a forward step, than other weapons in the game. The trick attack also has movement built into it. At the end of the day, the use of this weapon is all about positioning on the battlefield. It will actually make your life harder if your strategy is to circle strafe everything, but even if you are using spacing strategies I sometimes find that the built in movement is more of a hindrance than a help. Similar to the Amygdalan arm I think this one is fun and unique but not great, and is likely C tier as well.

Whirligig Saw: Finally something actually great. Though you will have to totally explore the first area and go onto an optional path to find this -- it's worth it. The one handed form is very satisfying, it has a fast swing but TONS of stagger as you're essentially bashing enemies with a flanged mace repeatedly. But when you press the L1 button the fun really comes out. It's a giant pizza cutter that you can use to slash enemies to pieces. I wouldn't say it has a top tier move set, but it FEELS amazing to use, and the move set is good enough that the weapon can easily be used. Especially the high stagger and relatively fast attacks for the type of weapon it is, these attributes carry over into the 2H form as well. Easily a solid B tier weapon, I might even go so far as to say it's an A tier.

If you want the Holy Moonlight Sword you'll have to beat the first boss, but I don't think you'll be ready to do that for a while. When people recommend you should be at level 65+ with a mostly or fully upgraded weapon (and decent blood gems), what they really mean is that you need all of those things to be able to fight the very first boss safely.

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You can also cheese to get the bow sword early if you know how, but i don't generally recommend it unless you have a major attraction to bows

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And I gotta actually beat that boss to get the Church Pick right afterwards, right?

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Correct. You won't have access to the Church Pick, the Bloodletter, the Rakuyo, or the Kos Parasite until after you get into the second half.

If we're including the bow blade I'll just mention that it is actually GREAT, especially if you're doing a skill build, a bloodtinge build, or a skill + bloodtinge build. Easily an A Tier weapon. It's basically top tier in either role, although maybe not as good as the best skill weapons, it stands right up there with the best guns in terms of damage output.


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I haven't even seen anyone mention the Bow Blade exists! I'm going down the weapon list and it's the only one I'd never heard of. Will have to look into it.

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If you're looking for a weapon to safely shoot enemies from a distance, it compares very favorably to the Evelynn. I was even out damaging the Evelynn with the bow blade when I started messing around in the high level endgame chalices with my gunner character (on normal shots). If you have low blood tinge you can still use it mainly just as a sword, but you end up with a weapon that only has half of a move set -- the transformation changes it into a bow, and the bow is really just that. A bow.

Also I wouldn't put all of your eggs into the church pick basket, to be honest. It fits into the same niche as the other C tier weapons I mentioned above, maybe borderline B tier. It has a unique style and it's kinda cool, but it's not that great to use. The two handed version has weird hitboxes and attack timing, and less stagger than a 2H weapon should have. Meanwhile, the one handed weapon feels slower than a one handed weapon should be, and feels like it has a limited and clunky attack path. One thing it has going for it is really high arcane scaling.

Meanwhile, if you are doing a skill build, you can pick up the Rakuyo which is easily a B/A tier weapon. Similar to the whirligig saw, the Rakuyo feels very fun and satisfying to use, and it actually has a good enough speed, move pool, and stagger that it IS very useable.


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The thing that pushes the church pick into top tier for me is that it's always got the serrated AND righteous bonuses and thrust type attacks, regardless of which form it's in, and the 2h mode has very reasonable range! The thrust matters because you can easily get blood gems that increase your thrust attack a lot, so getting "good" gems is much easier than for other weapons.

The raw stats might not compare favorably, but those bonuses do a lot of work.

... plus its moveset just felt right to me

One more note - even if you do suicide runs and unlock lamps & shortcuts, I suggest you still do the first part of the dlc "normally" at some point

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Oh for sure, I mean my weapon rush would just be to nab those for experimentation. I have no intention of skipping ahead once I go back.

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Church Pick is like B leaning C, that's why I say to just be a little bit wary. It is fun to look at, and the stats can actually be fairly good -- the damage is also deceptively good because of the bonus damage modifiers. And while you did enjoy the move set, I really think the move set is actually the weakest aspect of this weapon.

The (sometimes boring) reality is that the best weapons in bloodborne are the ones that very quickly hit the space right in front of you with enough poise damage to stun the enemy you're fighting. That's the situation you're going to be in 90%+ of the time. It's even better if the weapon has a good transformation attack to help out with extra stagger against medium and large enemies, or, alternately, a solid charged R2 for spacing, knockdown, and crowd control.

Church Pick is lacking in almost all of these qualities. It has a slightly delayed swing and attacks at irregular angles. I have a lot more I could say about why extra reach on weapons isn't really that great, but I figure I'll just leave it at this. I doubt anyone wants to hear me continuing to lecture on this stuff with an even greater level of detail. At the end of the day, whatever "feels" good is going to be "best" for most players.

tl;dr church pick is decent. it can be usable. but it's closer to a C tier weapon than it is to an A tier weapon, so be careful about getting your hopes up. especially with how long it'll take to even find the thing.

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I haven't checked if there have been new developments, but I think speedrunners generally consider the Saw Cleaver/Spear the best weapons on the game? They're easy to use and so efficient with stamina. I've goofed around with a few different weapons, but I've never felt more overpowered than the one run where I stuck with the Cleaver.

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saw spear and saw cleaver meet basically all of the requirements mentioned above for high tier weapons, yeah. and on top of that you can get them early on, they're easy to use, and you can make them insanely viable with very little investment. they check basically every single box you could want to check.

for my money I also consider to be the hunter axe a very high tier weapon. although it's not gonna be as good as the two mentioned above, there can really only be one "best." it also fits all of the qualities mentioned above, but it trades a little bit of striking speed for god tier stun, rally, and knockdown. you can more or less facetank the entire game by just holding down the R2 button and smashing enemies while they run into you and stab you. yes, they will damage you. but they also end up getting pancaked in the process, and you recover all of your health when you damage them.

if you like the tanking playstyle in the other souls games, the Hunter Axe is the closest comparable weapon in bloodborne. and it doesn't even require investing in equip load or figuring out the optimal armor set, since the poise is built into the weapons in BB.


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As someone who cares a lot about aesthetic, the possibility of me sticking with a starter weapon regardless of quality is 0% <_<

This bow blade does look cool.

Regardless, it's looking like I'll likely go Dex.

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for sure. just to be clear, you don't need to play every encounter perfectly and use the optimal weapon to have fun or be successful at playing bloodborne. I think the important thing I'm trying to stress here is what makes a C tier weapon, rather than what makes an A tier weapon.

when you press R1 repeatedly and the enemy gets pushed back, and then your second or third swing randomly misses because the weapon swings at a weird angle.

when you're trying to hit an enemy in front of you but your weapon keeps bouncing off of the wall instead of attacking.

when you try to attack an enemy but they just soak all of your attacks and then punch you back 3x as hard before you can kill them.

this is the kind of stuff that makes a C tier weapon. this is what I'm talking about. it won't make it impossible to win the game but there's going to be way more 'frustrating' moments. even novice players understand that they do not enjoy this, even if they don't really understand what is going on or why it's happening. or, worse, they just think this is the problem with the game itself rather than being aware that it's a problem with the weapon they are using.


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Welp, just beat Vicar Amelia and nabbed the whirligig saw. Here's where I'm at...looking like a lot better shape than last time.



Those Doll Clothes sell for a LOT of Blood Echoes.

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Time to cut some pizzas

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Already got it to +4, too!

No way I can actually play anymore right now, though, so gonna have to wait until after work tomorrow, lol. I can't beleive how cleanly I did that run for the weapon on the first shot. It's a solid 3 and a half minutes of just hauling ass and dodging enemies!

By the way, what's the best gun to have if it's just for parrying and I'm not putting points into bloodtinge? I mean, I'll put a little in for equip requirements if I have to, but none for scaling.

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Seems like you're enjoying your second run - glad to see it! Regarding guns, I always stick with the starting pistol if I'm not investing in BLT. I think it's easier to parry with than the blunderbuss.

I'm getting ahead of myself here, but if you ever consider a third run, the Vileblood kit with the Chikage and Evelyn is super slick.

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yeah that looks like a real build haha

pizza cutter is awesome, it might be my favorite weapon. it's the one that I used to beat the DLC for the first time, and I had lots of fun with it.

regarding guns...

blunderbuss is better for parrying if you are going to learn the enemy "tells." it has a very wide hitbox for the bullets that it fires, which is very important because of how fast enemies move in bloodborne. sometimes with the hunter pistol you will fire with the correct timing, but the enemy will move out of the way of your gun as they swing their body. assuming the player is parrying correctly

the hunter pistol rewards better reaction time, while the blunderbuss rewards better knowledge of the game. however, putting BOTH of those factors aside, the hunter pistol is the gun that will "drop" more parries because of its potential to miss shots. the blunderbuss will NEVER miss an enemy, and you will ALWAYS get the parry if your timing is correct. it's just that the timing is a little different (earlier). the reason many players favor the hunter pistol is because they have better reaction timing than they have knowledge of the game, and they think the dropped parries are just something you "have to" deal with.

if you want to use your gun to deal damage to things at range, you have two options with your build. the repeating pistol will do the most damage per shot, but it will use 2 bullets per shot. this is useful if, for example, you almost never use your gun but if you're fighting a difficult boss with a sliver of health and you want to safely kill them from range. the hunter pistol does less damage per shot, but it has more damage efficiency because it fires only one bullet per shot. if you plan to use the gun somewhat frequently to engage enemies from a distance and get extra damage, the hunter pistol will be better for you. it will be less useful against bosses, but more helpful for killing stuff like winter lanterns without engaging them (and not running out of bullets to do so)

also worth mentioning that the repeating pistol will have more impact on things when you land a parry, due to the higher initial shot damage. but you'll have less chances to safely land a parry because of the higher cost of usage. I'd probably only recommend the repeating pistol to an experienced player that understands how to use blood bullets effectively. having half as many shots is a pretty huge penalty for an inexperienced player.

edit: one final edit because I think the blunderbuss is insanely underrated and I do feel the need to bring up a few more of its good points. the blunderbuss is easily the best gun for dealing with dogs. once again, because of their fast movement, it can be hard to stop them with a pistol. with the blunderbuss just make sure you're facing the right general direction and fire. if you didn't know, gun damage will always knock dogs to the ground. stops them from running, and you can kill them safely as soon as they stand back up.

and with regards to damage... okay, wall of text incoming here.

it's important to note that I specifically said "at range" above. this is because, in terms of damage, the blunderbuss can actually deal insane damage. you just have to get up close and shotgun enemies. it doesn't work well in the early game, but it works exceptionally well once you have the right blood gem set up. the way the blunderbuss works is that the damage shown on the stat screen is the damage for a single "pellet." when you fire the blunderbuss, it shoots multiple pellets out in a spray pattern. depending on the size of the enemy, and your positioning, you CAN hit enemies with multiple pellets. this means when you're standing close to an enemy, the damage is going to be MUCH higher than the listed attack rating.

most people see that the Hunter Pistol has a much higher listed AR than the Blunderbuss and assume it's not good at dealing damage, but this couldn't be further than the truth. when used properly, it can outdamage the Evelyn. the big reason for this is the usage of +Damage blood gems. not +% Damage, but just flat extra damage. the individual pellet damage of the blunderbuss is low, and so extra % damage won't increase it by very much. but, by the same token, extra FLAT damage will MASSIVELY increase the damage output. example, your damage per pellet is listed as 45 base damage. if you find a blood gem that adds +20 flat damage, this is almost a 50% damage increase! You are NOT going to find a +50% damage gem for any other gun. I don't know if this is an oversight on the development team or if they did it intentionally, but I've tested the guns out on a specialized bloodtinge build and I was able to confirm that my blunderbuss was dealing more damage than the evelyn in the optimal scenario. of course, the downside to this is the range. the evelyn (and other guns) are still going to be better at shooting things safely from far away. but it's still really interesting, and something to consider.

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tl;dr you should probably use the blunderbuss because it has better utility, more consistent parrying, and better stagger. this means not only is it easier to parry, but even if you mess up the timing it will be likely to stun the enemy and stop them from hitting you.

all that being said, you might still feel more comfortable using the pistol because you don't have to learn how to use it, you just have to press L1 on reaction time. you'll miss a lot more parries, and you lose out on the utility of the blunderbuss (for stuff like dealing with dogs or enemy hunter NPCs), but this won't matter as much to a novice who isn't using their gun correctly anyway.


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I will experiment! I actually went Ludwig Rifle/Cannon last time around for basically the whole game and never tried anything else.

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Cannon is mostly for the lulz imho.

I forget what the exact differences are between the buss and Ludwig's, but i think it has mostly to do with the spread?

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on that note I'll add -- the problem with the ludwig rifle and the evelyn is the long barrel of the gun can actually cause issues with parrying. both of them have diminished parrying consistency because of the longer gun barrel. if the enemy is too close to you, it's much easier for them to get inside of your firing range as you shoot past them.

both guns are solid options for dealing damage at long range, however. every gun really has its own role that it specializes in. I'm not particularly a fan of the cannon but it definitely fills its niche of turning your QS bullet stock into one huge blast of damage. it actually has really bad damage efficiency because of how many bullets it consumes... so basically it's like an even more extreme version of the repeating pistol I described above, with absolutely all gun utility removed in exchange for damage.


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Peace___Frog posted...

I forget what the exact differences are between the buss and Ludwig's, but i think it has mostly to do with the spread?

the ludwig rifle has a MUCH longer dropoff range before you start to lose damage. you can actually shoot things at a distance and get a large % of your full damage. however, with shotgun type pellets, you want to be closer to the target anyway to stack as many pellets as possible. so it's actually got a bit of anti-synergy going on with its design. it allows you to hit harder from further away, but you want to be close to the enemy to deal your optimal max damage... but the long barrel prevents you from firing into the enemy up close.

for this reason I'd say the ludwig rifle is a pretty low tier gun.


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When I was using the cannon it was with the damage dust, and I always got 4 shots right away by starting with up on the D-pad, boom, repeat. Healing one time in that pattern.

It was very niche but it was a big fuck you when I just wanted to do "free" damage to a larger boss because I was getting frustrated.

Plus it doesnt scale off bloodtinge, so I will probably end up keeping one in the pocket just in case until I work up to that arcane tentacle thing, lol. Of course I probabky won't have 30 strength until after I get that tool anyways.

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Wish I remembered the progression enough to know when I should start investing to 18 arcane. Will probably put one more point into vit for the moment, strength to 25...probably after that?

I do want to get Endurance up a little bit at least for that transformed L2 hold at some point.

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it's tough going from 8 to 18 because yeah at a certain point, for 10 levels, it's gonna feel like your build isn't really gaining anything. I think this is the true barrier of entry for arcane and bloodtinge build. for players who aren't sure how many points and where to put them -- if they will even pay off -- it's difficult to invest 10 points straight into arcane before you're able to use the item you want to try out.

all I can say is that the augur of ebrietas really is worth it on just about any build that can fit 18 points of arcane. in the worst case scenario it's an instant knockback + knockdown that does tons of damage even to the larger free roaming enemies in the game.

you have a good amount of vitality already, you'll really only need to put more points into it later on if you feel like the lategame + DLC enemies are hitting you too hard. a 'finished' build should have 50 vitality, but you will likely beat the game before finishing your build. for right now... you don't need to put any additional points into strength until you have at least a +7 weapon with good blood gems.

so you can put points into arcane for now, I think.

it may seem counter intuitive but trust me... the points you invest into strength right now will only increase your damage a relatively small amount. but if you wait and invest them later, you'll get a LOT more damage in return per point of strength (due to your higher base damage and higher scaling modifier. I can elaborate on this more if you want). you probably don't need the tiny boost of extra damage now, but you will need the big boost of extra damage later. the game mechanics both reward and support this strategy.

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I mean I already have more Health than when I beat the game last time <_<

Would you say raising End to 18 should be the last step, even with the Whirli's L2?

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It's tough for me to answer that because I don't personally think you should raise your endurance. I guess the best benchmark I can give is that you should wait until after you get Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis +15% Stamina. Equip that rune. If you still feel like you don't have enough stamina, THEN increase your endurance.

For similar reasons to strength, you'll get more points of stamina per point of endurance if you wait until later. The best question to ask is whether or not you're already getting as many swings as you need to be able to safely engage enemies.

If the answer is no you can either:

A. Invest in Endurance now, but know that these points might end up being wasted in the long run (as you'd likely get more points by just equipping +15% later on, while investing 0 points right now)

or

B. get better at the game so you can safely engage enemies while spending less stamina.

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for a better understanding of what I mean...

Your stamina is 96 right now. if you equip the ACM +15% rune, you will have 106 Stamina.

to reach 106 stamina through leveling you need to go from 11 endurance to 15 endurance.

but if you equip the ACM+15% rune with 15 endurance, you'll jump from 106 stamina to 121 stamina at this time.

if the amount of stamina you need is anywhere between 96 and 120, you have effectively wasted points on your build.

(EDIT: In case what I said above was still unclear and how it relates to my previous post, think of it this way... the 4 levels you spend on endurance will either raise you from 96 to 106 right now OR from 96 to 121 later)

how many points do you actually need? that's a tough question. I think a good bench mark is being able to swing your weapon in the base 1 handed form R1-R1-R1 and then still have a little bit of stamina left to dodge. you can try R1-L1-R1 as well and see if this works out.

(EDIT 2: Changed the combo above because I remembered the weapon you are using)

this will give you the option to attack four times in a row when you need to, an amount of attacks that should be enough to secure the kill on any single enemy... while also giving you the option to dodge after any normal string of attacks (three or less)

106 should be plenty for these purposes, and I think around 96 is usually good enough already even without the ACM+15 rune. bloodborne gives the player an absurd amount of stamina by default. although the rune does help a bit for margin of error or needing to engage multiple groups of foes before your stamina can fully regen.

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Amazing how much easier a time in having. My first playthrough I used to just sprint through the mobs at the beginning of the forbidden woods to get past them, now I'm barely even having to pay attention!

I got a chunk in the DLC from the Gremlin next to the Whirligig Saw, too, so this thing is already about to hit +7 before Shadows of Yarnham.

I am almost certain that my Health never went of 25 points until near the end of the game the first time, because I was adhering to the aoftcap.

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I've run into a snag. Well, not actually an active issue, but one I am worried about for the future.

My Pizza Cutter is so God damn powerful that I haven't been practicing partying at all <_<

It's already scaling higher than it's natural damage!

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Those Doll Clothes sell for a LOT of Blood Echoes.

Selling fashion.
Blasphemer.
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assuming you mean parrying? parrying is a little more specialized than this. it's not something that you need to practice on every enemy to be "good" at. the core skills are easy to learn. if you understand what a parry is (you seem to already know this), how to land the visceral attack (this is a skill you may be able to improve on), and you don't have the reaction timing of a toad (offset this by using the blunderbuss, or just don't parry) then this is about as much as your core parrying skills are going to matter.

after that it's about learning the specific tells and timing when face a specific enemy, and when you want to parry a specific attack.

parrying is useful against specific bosses and enemies, but there are viable alternatives in all of those situations. I wouldn't call it mandatory for any of them. though in some (even more specific) cases, it does make things a LOT easier.


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Feeling like I'm finally going to have to nab that blunderbuss for the Crow Hunter in the Grand Cathedral with the bloodsword that kills Eileen. First thing that has given me real trouble since starting.

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That guy is the biggest pain in my ass.
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The advantages you have are that you can heal 20+ times and he can only heal three times. And he also drains his own health with his weapon. Use this to your advantage. Be patient. It's one of the few enemies in the game where aggression is not the best strategy.

Stand outside of his attack range and respond appropriately to whatever he does.

If he dashes or rolls forward, he's going to either shoot or attack. Just dodge out of the way.

If he shoots his gun, move or dodge to the side.

If he starts to walk toward you... slowly back up. He'll swing at you and "whiff." This enemy actually heavily rewards players who understand the fundamentals of spacing which is SHOCKINGLY few players, and the reason why he is considered such a difficult opponent. You do NOT need to press dodge, and if you do so you will actually ruin your positioning.

To repeat: if he WALKS toward you, just back up slowly away from him. He will swing at the air in front of you, missing you. After his attack misses, he is vulnerable to a counter attack. This is when you should hit him. He can also be stunned very easily if you have a weapon that deals lots of poise damage, but I'd also advise against just mindlessly mashing attack. Learn how many attacks you can safely get in -- it's probably between 1 and 3 -- and then back off. Do this enough times and he will run out of heals, and then run out of HP.

There is really only three things he can do. Once you know this, he becomes much easier. Although he still requires you to execute things perfectly, of course, and there's little margin for error. I'm not saying he's easy, but you can make him much easier if you understand how the game (and this boss) works.

last thing I'll say is that if you do get hit by one of his attacks, you need the nerve not to panic dodge or try to heal in the default state. a panic dodge has potential to get you shot or attacked, and doesn't do anything to benefit you. it only leaves you with less stamina. trying to heal in the default state will just give him a chance to attack you while you're healing. you need to keep playing safely and carefully, wait for him to miss an attack. while he's recovering from his missed attack, this is when you should heal. safe healing follows the same properties and ideals as safe attacking.

you can also use the lamp in the arena to your advantage. I generally advise fighting him near the back of the cathedral. his shots can't go through the lamp, and it's a good barrier that you can make him circle around when you need a moment to recover your mental state or find a safe opportunity to heal. always be thinking about how to use the environment to your advantage, even in a seemingly open and empty room.


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I honestly didn't parry much in my first play through the game. It made things much harder than they needed to be, but I bring it up to say that if you have patience and can learn attack patterns, you'll defeat anything eventually!

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if you want to parry the bloody crow of cainhurst, the best gun to do it is actually the reiterpallasch.

when you get a chance to engage him with a safe attack, use the combo R1-L1

first hit will stun him. around half the time he'll dodge away, the other half of the time he'll try to counter attack.

if he dodges away, you'll shoot and stun him. free damage, free stun. back off and prepare to engage again.

if he tries to counter attack, your transformation L1 will instantly shoot him with a bullet and parry him.

even if you mess up the timing, the bullet will still stun him and give you an opportunity to dodge away.

this tactic of using the reiterpallasch is very consistent and very powerful against enemy hunters with the same model and moveset as a player character.

...

with regards to the blunderbuss, if you haven't picked it up yet, you may as well. first of all, the price of weapons doesn't scale up. this means it's likely very cheap to get one. secondly, you don't need to upgrade it at all. you'll be using it for utility rather than damage, so a +0 blunderbuss is just as useful for you. although you may want to upgrade it later if you want to use it as your main gun.

aside from the reiterpallasch technique, I think trying to parry the bloody crow is very risky and I wouldn't really attempt it. the reason is because his damage is so high and he's so aggressive. if you mess up a parry you could instantly die and have to start the fight over completely. if I WAS going to try it, with the blunderbuss, I'd probably do this...

I described his three attack methods above. what I'd add is this:

if he dashes or rolls forward, he's likely about to attack or shoot. you should fire your blunderbuss into him right when his roll or dodge ends. if he tries to shoot you, the blunderbuss should interrupt his shot and stun him temporarily. if he tries to attack you, the blunderbuss should parry him. issue is that I think if you get the timing wrong you'll get punished pretty badly. but I'm not sure. it might be worth trying.


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I managed somehow, just got good I guess! Thebrecommendation to just back off and not dodge certainly helped.

I also just remembered that I beat them the first time around by retreating to the bottom of the stairs and moving in and out until they killed themselves with their ability

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nice. good job. he's genuinely probably one of the most cheesed enemies in the game, so you should definitely feel proud of being able to beat him in a straight up fight.

pretty soon you'll be able to take on the yaharghul gank squad.

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Well that lecture hall full of goo men sure is a damn good grinding spot for this point in the game. They also drop and absurd number of bullets for overstock.



All initial goals have been achieved already! Just in time for the Auher, too, which my initial impression is...busted as fuck.

I guess now it's strength?

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From this point on you should just invest into strength until you reach 50 strength, yeah. at that point you will be almost level 90 and very likely done with the game and the DLC. once you know what you're doing, bloodborne builds are actually very simple due to the low number of stats.

if you find yourself swimming in blood echoes, have already stocked up on enough consumables to last you forever, and you're not averse to leveling up further... 50 vitality is always useful. 25 skill will allow you to use more weapons, but won't benefit the whirligig saw as much. 25 arcane gives access to the tiny tonitrus and the executioner gloves if you want to mess around with some more hunter tools. and your augur of ebrietas damage will continue to scale up in a very satisfying way.

it won't be possible to fit a useful amount of bloodtinge onto your build, so I wouldn't bother. just stick with the blunderbuss and pistol.


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Should also decide what I want my secondary strength weapon to be, I suppose. Since I have this Arcane anyways...moonlight sword?

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