Board 8 > Coronavirus Topic 8

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah things have to open up. There's this pic floating around as an example of how dumb the rules are being with protests.

There's no way this would hold up to any scrutiny.



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Well, I do think that the protests are a big mistake from a public health perspective (and, in fact, the extra uncertainty about how much they'll exacerbate the outbreak is another reason to be extra cautious). I don't think that's a good reason to be more cavalier about rolling back other restrictions, though!

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Corrik7 posted...

The biggest thing there that is interesting is schools reopening. While many states have bars and gyms and such already reopened or about to, schools is the one that many others don't yet.

Yeah schools opening are a bit weird since summer vacation is almost here. Might as well wait until September.

The only exception that makes sense would be for final exams required to go to university

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It kind of sucks but, other restrictions are even more important now. Not so much full closures, but maintaining distancing and masks as best we can in places of business.

We're already seeing a bit of an increase in cases likely attributed to the holiday weekend.

We know these protests are spreading the virus.

Gatherings absolutely should not be encouraged.

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charmander6000 posted...

Yeah schools opening are a bit weird since summer vacation is almost here. Might as well wait until September.

The only exception that makes sense would be for final exams required to go to university

Well, NCAA a lot of schools weren't allowing athletics unless allowing opening of campuses. So, opening schools now let's football practices start i assume.

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it's not about holding back, it's that if protests are going to have stated limits like that then they're no different from any other. they are, fundamentally, the same. the intent of the people gathering does not matter for the facts here, only the fact that they're gathering does. so you can't really impose one rule for another.

besides, the obvious rebuttal is "then this is a protest of that order." boom, 100 people anytime. "i open my business in protest" -> enjoy your 100 person allowance. it's too dumb to be taken seriously by anyone. the loosest restriction will be the restriction.

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Kinglicious posted...

Yeah things have to open up. There's this pic floating around as an example of how dumb the rules are being with protests.

There's no way this would hold up to any scrutiny.

Oh hey, this is my county.

Anecdotally, people here are generally following the guidelines, and there hasn't been any gaming of the system yet. The 100 person protest thing is weird, but I get the sense that it was put in there primarily to avoid conflict in a way. Contra Costa was also slower to enact curfews compared to nearby counties, and I get the sense that they've been actively trying to avoid pissing people off and escalating the situation.

Also it's worth noting that the 12 person gathering is supposed to be a closed group sort of thing, where you can hang out with up to 12 people as long as it's always exclusively the same 12 people. But it seems like they've done a poor job of explaining that bit.

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VintageGin posted...

Also it's worth noting that the 12 person gathering is supposed to be a closed group sort of thing, where you can hang out with up to 12 people as long as it's always exclusively the same 12 people. But it seems like they've done a poor job of explaining that bit.

Yeah Berkeley's doing this too.

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My state is basically at fuck it on the guidelines. All I ever see if posts of Peduto and Wolf walking in a protest with hundred if not thousands close by and people calling out his hypocrisy as far as the covid guidelines.

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Once November hits this is going to go real bad isn't it.

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hockeydude15 posted...

Once November hits this is going to go real bad isn't it.

In theory the most cases you get before November, the less November has to work with to be bad with! Lol

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Yeah, I support the protests entirely, but I'm gonna be real.

If they tell me that I need to social distance still after all these protests are happening, I'm going to lose my shit. I'm pretty over the same people who say "If you go out in public, you're killing grandma!" holier-than-thou bullshit and then they'll turn around and go to protests. So does grandma's life not matter all of a sudden you sanctimonious prick?

It just shows that if people thought this was as serious of a disease as they claimed it was, a lot of these protests wouldn't be happening. Because we worry about the hospitals getting flooded and we have all of these health professionals saying please stay home for them, but now that's all out the window now and none of it seems to matter. Aren't hospitals in theory supposed to be overrun here soon? Isn't it all supposed to become horrible for them?

And I say this in full agreement with the idea of cops needing to have accountability and their union being abolished. I support all of that. There is no accountability for the cops and there hasn't been in ages, and if you fix that you start to fix the racist cop problem. But you can't tell me this disease is that serious again and that we need to go back to exercising all of the caution in the world once more.

I've played along with the guidelines entirely. I've hated it, but I did it because I was told it was the right thing to do. But if they put these intense guidelines in again, they would be absolutely insane to shut down the country again. Get a system in place where people who are immuno-compromised or people who are in constant contact with those people to be the ones that have to stay home. The idea of shutting everything down again after all of this, with no ideas to change it to make it more reasonable is frankly absurd.

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What area are you, biscuit?

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San Francisco Bay Area, so we've been under lockdown longer than everyone but the Seattle area. And a real, strict lockdown and not the half-assing lockdown a lot of the other places did.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

San Francisco Bay Area, so we've been under lockdown longer than everyone but the Seattle area. And a real, strict lockdown and not the half-assing lockdown a lot of the other places did.

I think a lot are in your boat. If they have a million protesters descend on DC like they are trying to have happen this week, I think arguments for no crowds in sporting events is pretty much a hard sell at that point also, if not already.

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I mean, in addition you have stuff like this:

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/1269169419998990336


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Most people here have stopped wearing masks. I had to go car shopping yesterday and none of the employees or people were wearing them. I was literally the only person there with a mask.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Get a system in place where people who are immuno-compromised or people who are in constant contact with those people to be the ones that have to stay home.

we don't have any sort of system for this able to be in place without shutting down the entire economy and people need to stop asking for it.

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Obviously history doesn't repeat exactly, but if the stories from the Spanish Flu are any indication, once things reopen people aren't going to go back. There's going to be a lot of push back on reinstituting restrictions, fairly or not, and it will be coming from a lot of different quarters this time.

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I know it sucks that a lot of people aren't following the guidelines, but the effects are multiplicative. It's now even more important for people to take measures to prevent spreading the virus.

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that's well and good but when you've got government officials outright ignoring it and policy being written to outright ignore it, it's going to get ignored.

worse, this actually completely proved that yes, there indeed WAS a major political aspect to the shutdown being the way it was as the only reason things are accelerating the way they are is because of political reasons. shit's rapidly collapsing and the only preventative anything that's going up is people wanting guns for protection.

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red13n posted...

we don't have any sort of system for this able to be in place without shutting down the entire economy and people need to stop asking for it.

Okay, why?

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Okay, why?

We have an interconnected society and it's impossible to segment off the particularly vulnerable subset. You can maybe make the virus have to, on average, go through a few extra people, but at the end of the day once large fractions of the population have the virus it's impossible for most people to ensure their own safety with high probability regardless of how careful they're being.

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https://twitter.com/NBCPhiladelphia/status/1269330816741650433

...yeah, social distancing is fucking dead. 6 feet? they ain't even 6 inches.

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A second wave at this point is very possible to occur, there are many factors but the ongoing protests are the biggest contributing factor, people are yelling, screaming and not socially distancing. The second wave of the Spanish Flu had a much higher casualty as shown on this chart and there were no protests back then.

https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OG-EE586_1918FL_4U_20200417112813.png

I can tell you I stopped by a bar to play pool today, and they were following absolutely zero guidelines at all and it was more packed then it ever has been.

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despite new covid cases per day being slightly higher in the past few days compared to previous days, the netherlands drops another spot on the list of countries with the most cases, from #22 to #23. belarus takes the #22 spot.

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At this point I am almost wanting more cases to happen to tell people how stupid they are being.

But that'd just hurt the wrong people too.
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Corrik7 posted...

I can tell you I stopped by a bar to play pool today, and they were following absolutely zero guidelines at all and it was more packed then it ever has been.

what state are you in again?

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Ya social distancing was all the rage until the riots started now no one cares and its old news.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

what state are you in again?

Hes in Pennsylvania
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

what state are you in again?

Pa

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On the plus side, a second wave in the fall seems less likely right now.

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Well yeah, we're gonna spend all summer with it instead.

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I don't know if I'd call it going from the second wave to the third wave a plus.
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the netherlands drops another spot on the list of countries with the most cases, from #23 to #24. south africa takes the #23 spot.

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New Zealand has likely totally eliminated active covid cases from its population and is fully reopening (besides strict border controls):

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1269944734769991680

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oh, something i forgot to mention in post #287: music venues are partially open too. i figured this wasn't going to happen until next month!

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charmander6000 posted...

Yeah schools opening are a bit weird since summer vacation is almost here. Might as well wait until September.

The only exception that makes sense would be for final exams required to go to university

it allows for them to order supplies etc. at least thats what I hear.

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I mean you can do that without having students at the school.

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Just got my 1st positive covid test that I personally handled how exciting

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So I've seen my local news talk about how the percentage of positive cases has plummeted and this is a really good sign. Umm...hold the phone here...ever since our city opened up free, non-appointment, no-symptoms necessary drive up testing sites, every healthy Tom, Dick, and Harry who has a job has been going to get tested, I suspect in hopes that they are positive and can get a few weeks off of work. Obviously, that's wide assumption on everyone's motives, but I imagine it is a factor for many. Regardless, a lot more healthy people are getting tested now. So of course the percentage of positive tests will go down when you add hundreds of healthy people getting tested who would have previously been unable to. I just dont see why this statistic has any value.

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I dunno man

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the amount of covid cases in the US broke 2 million.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

the amount of covid cases in the US broke 2 million.

All at once or

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I had another positive covid tonight I'm just going to assume at this point they will keep rolling in

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https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1270495337027960833

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Here in Israel we got it down to about 10-20 cases a day during quarantine
Now three weeks later we have around 170-200 a day

The thing is...nobody cares anymore
We won't accept another quarantine

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Ah my Dad finally played the Coronavirus is a population control conspiracy theory on me

Took awhile to get that one out of him

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Honestly as shitty as it sounds, with how they have reopened everything and probably intend to stay that way, they may have been better off just not doing anything from the get go. It seems like if things are going to stay as they have now, within a month (maybe?) then those numbers are going to probably climb to near lockdown levels anyway.

I mean I guess we have better testing now, better PPE preparedness and have some minor preventative measures in place. Plus some people have immunity now. But it doesn't seem there's really anything to stop it from spiraling upwards again in a pretty quick fashion. Less so than pre lockdown but it should theoretically still get out of hand within 1-2 months (especially if those protest numbers cause a massive spike)

Also in an update about how useless Florida unemployment is. Week 9 now. Received $247 total. Should have received $7875 by now. Someone put out a form for escalation of people who haven't received PUA yet, it had 10k+ people fill it out within hours. On the plus side, numbers at work are trending towards $2-2.5m this week so I probably get to go back in the next few weeks.