Board 8 > Coronavirus Topic 8

(+) Yeah! (+)

ulti how do you suck all the time about every issue
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Taking the dumbest take gets him the most attention.

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I guess according to Ulti logic, kevlar armor is pointless because it can't always offer 100% protection against all bullets. Only surrounding yourself in several feet of solid titanium will do, and if you can't do that why even bother?

And yet, funnily enough, people at risk of getting shot like to have whatever protection they can get.

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Giggsalot posted...

This isn't strictly accurate: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/07/mutations-in-the-coronavirus-spike-protein

(yeah, I know they cite a pre-print, but this one looks fairly solid.)

Ah, I forgot about this, you're right. I think when I initially read about D614G elsewhere last week I misinterpreted it as an early mutation that likely mixed around the globe already because of selective pressure to better bind with ACE2, but that it would mean nothing for antibody binding.

So yeah, this thread from Trevor Bedford is probably the best summation of the situation around it:

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1257825352660877313

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Masks are not some magic protection but they do help. Wearing one is better than not wearing one.

The better masks will do more, but as a person with a proper mask for work I can tell you wearing one all the time would be hell.

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red13n posted...

Taking the dumbest take

It's always funny when keyboard warriors pretend they're smarter than the folks actually doing this for a living. I'm willing to bet you don't have live corona tests going on where you work.

It's like the weirdos who think Fauci is a quack.

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That doesn't really matter since most every expert agrees that any sort of mask does lower the risk of infection by some degree, but most importantly, it prevents you as a possible asymptomatic carrier from passing COVID-19 to someone else by a great amount.
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Whiskey_Nick posted...

Masks are not some magic protection but they do help. Wearing one is better than not wearing one.

The better masks will do more, but as a person with a proper mask for work I can tell you wearing one all the time would be hell.

This is a virus that can live up to 96 hours on a surface and up to 3 hours as aerosol. That's right out of Princeton and UPenn. Those little paper masks aren't doing much, because they aren't close to being air tight. It's also why I'm annoyed that they went from "only an M95 or respirator will help" (which is actually the truth) to "just wear anything".

Just wearing anything won't help.

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SovietOmega posted...

I guess according to Ulti logic, kevlar armor is pointless because it can't always offer 100% protection against all bullets. Only surrounding yourself in several feet of solid titanium will do, and if you can't do that why even bother?

And yet, funnily enough, people at risk of getting shot like to have whatever protection they can get.

Titanium powersuit or nothing. There is no compromise!

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I mean, it will help. It's not gonna 100% protect, but it will lower transmission at least some amount.

Of course the other issue is people who have masks on do treat it as 100% protection and start being stupid like the jackass 75 year old man at the grocery store last week that reached around me to get something and when I told him to back off and wait his turn he said it's okay he has a mask on.

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masks help primarily in a one way direction: you breathing outwards. that's always been the case and that's where it's helpful with asymptomatic cases. if you're infected and breath out, sneeze, cough, etc you limit the amount and distance.

in terms of protecting you they aren't entirely effective but there's a reduction based on materials and layers, which should be obvious considering it's literally less particles. wash clothes proved extremely effective when layered, to a degree of 97%, same as an N95.

now if you want to wear one or not that's a different story. by one i mean anything to cover your face, not just masks, as a multi-layered scarf is just as effective as some of the crap out there. i generally don't. but i at least know the logic and science behind it.

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Whiskey_Nick posted...

I mean, it will help. It's not gonna 100% protect, but it will lower transmission at least some amount.

Of course the other issue is people who have masks on do treat it as 100% protection and start being stupid like the jackass 75 year old man at the grocery store last week that reached around me to get something and when I told him to back off and wait his turn he said it's okay he has a mask on.

True story -- I was on the herd immunity or else train until these states opened back up and cases started going way up. So now, for the most part I think the left is right that things need to stay SUPER careful here. You're allowed to change your mind when presented with new information. The problem is they've lied so much to people and have changed their minds so often that they could say you need oxygen to live and half the country wouldn't believe them.

They're also terrible with money and economics. UBI and printing infinite money at the fed is not going to fix this, and an economic depression would kill more people than corona even if the entire planet caught it. There are an estimated 7.8 billion people on earth. Assuming a 4% death rate (a very high number), 312 million die if the entire planet catches coronavirus.

In a true collapse from depression, you could have well over a billion people starve in the third world alone. What is the actual solution here? I'm seriously asking. Both of those options I just listed suck ass.

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I am of the mind shut stuff down as much as possible and ride it out. It will decimate the economy but if all nations actually worked together you could mitigate that. Do stuff like uniformly tax the wealthy around the world and pause things as much as you can with the assumption it goes back to some kind of new normal after.

Since that is a pipe dream, we need to open stuff as safely and smartly as possible, but the problem is most people are insanely stupid of just oblivious.

If we just ignore it like Sweden, we are gonna overwhelm the system and inflate the death rate way more.

I guess really I would just like to see tons of quick accurate testing and tracing while we live this til there is a vaccine or herd immunity. Better treatment options too.

I also speak from a point of great privilege here as I did not lose my job, had 7 weeks off at 100% pay and now am working alone in a school. While my wife was/is able to collect the CERB for $2000 a month since she can't work and needs to watch our kid. So we have faced no financial hardship at all. It's easy for me to say yeah lets just ride this out, because I have been able to. If I were a small business owner I am sure my opinion would be radically different.


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PostContestUlti posted...

It's always funny when keyboard warriors pretend they're smarter than the folks actually doing this for a living. I'm willing to bet you don't have live corona tests going on where you work.

It's like the weirdos who think Fauci is a quack.

but fauci supports wearing a mask

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/what-dr-fauci-wants-you-to-know-about-face-masks-and-staying-home-as-virus-spreads

so you kinda sound like one of the weirdos who think hes a quack

Those little paper masks aren't doing much, because they aren't close to being air tight. It's also why I'm annoyed that they went from "only an M95 or respirator will help" (which is actually the truth) to "just wear anything".

you keep mentioning paper masks but what about cloth masks? Are those not more effective?
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I'm in the camp that sticks to the idea of open with an eye on medical. Long as the medical system can take it, start opening. Steadily build your way up from there.

I also flatly reject any attempt of contact tracing using digital means. Complete non starter to tell me to install spyware.

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Whiskey_Nick posted...

I am of the mind shut stuff down as much as possible and ride it out. It will decimate the economy but if all nations actually worked together you could mitigate that. Do stuff like uniformly tax the wealthy around the world and pause things as much as you can with the assumption it goes back to some kind of new normal after.

"Tax the wealthy" is always going to be a logical fallacy. They're the ones that employ people.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-not-just-amazon-and-whole-foods-heres-jeff-bezos-enormous-empire-in-one-chart-2017-06-21

It sounds good to broke people to tax Jeff Bezos, but what ends up happening if that were true is employees in all those companies get pay cuts or laid off.

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Wang is right. Most people don't understand how the mask recommendations for the public work.

There is absolutely zero intent for you to be 100% protected from viral load. The masks that are to accomplish that are n95 masks. The public is NOT recommended to wear those. The public is recommended to donate them to hospitals if they have them.

The masks the public are recommended to wear are simply to reduce your spread of virus in your droplets that you naturally have via talking, breathing, sneezing, and coughing.

This only works definitively to protect you if everyone is wearing their masks and following proper usage of them.

However, the mask you wear is to reduce how far your droplets spread from you. Not to protect you.

The guy who reached around Nick was likely doing relatively nothing wrong if wearing his mask properly.

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One reason state/provincial level doctors appear to be "wishy-washy" is that their recommendations come with the caveat of "as long as you maintain social distancing" or "they aren't 100% effective" and the general public (or enough of them) ignores that part which forces them to take a stronger/more restrictive approach.

PostContestUlti posted...

In a true collapse from depression, you could have well over a billion people starve in the third world alone. What is the actual solution here? I'm seriously asking. Both of those options I just listed suck ass.

We essentially have the trolley problem, but we don't know which track has more people. In the end we'll get a somewhat compromise where some people will die from the virus while others will die due to the resulting depression. We just have to hope the policy makers put us on the track that's less than the two extreme scenarios (establish herd immunity or extreme global depression)

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Corrik7 posted...

The guy who reached around Nick was likely doing relatively nothing wrong if wearing his mask properly.

You're still supposed to practice proper social distancing even with the mask on. It doesn't give you a free pass to be all over someone else.
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v_charon posted...

You're still supposed to practice proper social distancing even with the mask on. It doesn't give you a free pass to be all over someone else.

Difference between being all over someone and reaching around them. If both had masks, the normal every day thing in a store of reaching around someone who is in front of what you want, is likely not an issue assuming both are wearing masks properly.

He could have waited his turn. Sure. I doubt he reached around Nick BECAUSE he had a mask on. He probably did it because he normally would in a situation someone was taking too long in front of him. He likely just tried to calm Nick's fears by showing him he had a mask on so he didn't have to worry.

Point is that if they both were wearing masks properly, there is little reason to freak out in regards. That said, Nick has said he is a lockdown forever to vaccine because of his fear of it, so that likely lead to his reaction as well

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Reaching around someone is not a normal everyday thing in a store. Waiting your damn turn or asking politely to move if they are taking too long is the normal.

Especially when you are suppose to be staying 6 feet apart.


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I'm not sure what planet you're from, but if someone is in my way in the store, pre or post-corona, I'd say "excuse me" so they'd know to step aside.
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What you do has nothing to do with what other people normally do, vcharon.

If you are saying you have never been in a a store where someone is looking at items in an aisle and a person goes next to them and grabs their item they need that they were blocking, then I am honestly going to question what planet you are from.

Like, it happens all the time.

But, beyond that. The point is that Nick acted like the guy did it BECAUSE he had a mask on. When the guy did it likely because he would have normally done it in a regular scenario.

He didn't say, HAhaha I have a mask on! Time to reach around this dude to get my shit hahaha because I have a mask and am invincible!

For example, your normal is to say excuse me. My normal is to sit there patiently and wait for them to be done, in which a quarter of the time they turn around and ask if they are in my way or say "you could have said excuse me". Which I just reply, I can wait it's no big deal.

Lol. Your normal isn't everyone's normal. That was likely his normal behavior.

So, if Nick had a problem with it. He shouldn't frame it with a mask making the guy invincible argument, he should have framed that the guy was impatient or impolite by Nick's measures.

Got it?

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Corrik7 posted...

What you do has nothing to do with what other people normally do, Corrik7.

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Vcharon, trying to argue to argue. Got it. All you had to say, bud. I won't waste my time on someone who just wants to argue about stuff.

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I agree it's a bad idea to waste time on yourself.
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Always can tell when someone is upset that what they said was debunked.

Lol oh boy. Some of you guys are a trip. Anyways...

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This is from the guy who literally ended a reply with "Got it?".

Take a long look in the mirror friend if you are wondering why some of us don't give a shit what you have to say.
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You aren't everybody. Lol.

I would be very surprised if the vast majority of people would not agree that in a normal day in a grocery store that people at some point reach around a slow person to get the item they want.

Like, it is so baffling to me that you are even arguing this point. I get that it is to deflect from what was being said that Nick is probably incorrect that the person only did it because they felt invincible because they had a mask on and moreso did it because it was their normal behavior.

Like, I truly understand it is just deflection. However, it is such an off the wall assertion that you are either trolling or just arguing to argue.

Of course this happens in stores. Of course not everyone does things the way you do things or I do things or so on. Like, just lol.

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So, in a actual coronavirus news, China should fall out of the top 15 in cases by the end of this week upcoming. Canada will likely pass it to take the 15th spot. Seems likely the epicenter is actually that low in cases.

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Guy was a bit of a dick for reaching around but that's pretty normal. Doesn't happen regulalry but happens enough that it's expected to occur every so often.

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I would hazard to say that yes, the majority of people are not going to reach around someone in a store in a normal circumstance and especially if most every store has signs up everywhere imploring people to stay at least 6 feet away from the nearest person if they can help it. So yes, a logical conclusion is that a large majority of people won't do what they guy did with Nick. As suggested above, of course it happens. You however were excusing the guy without knowing much about the situation and then tossed in a backhanded comment which virtually dismissed Nick's story because you, personally, disagree with his stance on COVID-19. You almost always do that in fact, which is why I do it do you.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Or just wait? Or help them maybe?

Any of these are far more likely than me walking up and unexpectedly reaching around the person without warning. And again, definitely not something that should be done in the current situation. It's completely uncalled for and irresponsible.
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v_charon posted...

I would hazard to say that yes, the majority of people are not going to reach around someone in a store in a normal circumstance and especially if most every store has signs up everywhere imploring people to stay at least 6 feet away from the nearest person if they can help it. So yes, a logical conclusion is that a large majority of people won't do what they guy did with Nick. As suggested above, of course it happens. You however were excusing the guy without knowing much about the situation and then tossed in a backhanded comment which virtually dismissed Nick's story because you, personally, disagree with his stance on COVID-19. You almost always do that in fact, which is why I do it do you.

Any of these are far more likely than me walking up and unexpectedly reaching around the person without warning. And again, definitely not something that should be done in the current situation. It's completely uncalled for and irresponsible.

Nobody said everyone does it. I said it's a normal behavior. I have worked at a Walmart long enough to know this. That guy was an impatient, impolite person. Simple as that. He didn't do it because he felt he was invincible from wearing a mask.

I didn't do literally anything you said. I'm fact, it seems you saw what you wanted to and just ran with it.

Every day I have zero doubt people are flaunting 6 feet guidelines on a regular basis (not everyone). I have yet to be to a Walmart after they put one way aisles in that people have followed them. To the point that I think I might be the only one who does! Lol.

I said that if masks were worn properly that the guy likely didn't cause an increased risk, which is the point of wearing the masks!

It is possible that Nick may have increased his risk by not just ignoring the couple of seconds for the guy to grab his thing instead of confronting him about it, which at least caused face to face interaction from how it sounds. Though the masks shouldn't make that a worry either if used properly.

The point was that the guy didn't do it just because he had a mask on. He did it because he likely normally acts that way. He justified it because of having a mask on. He likely was fine. And, Nick arguably could have said to have overreacted by confronting the guy about it with the scenarios that could have branched off from it. He could have just moved away or not stood in front of items to the point someone tried to reach around them. Sure, Nick shouldn't have to adjust his behavior for impolite people. That's a given.

However, likely at the end of the day, there was no transmission issue absolutely because of the masks if worn properly. Some people don't even realize what they are doing because they normally act this way.

It is why I try to minimize the amount of time I am in stores period because people do act this way. I worked at a Walmart, so I understand this. So, I already know what to expect.


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the netherlands drops another spot on the list of countries with the most cases, from #17 to #18. mexico takes the #17 spot.

zoos and amusement parks partially reopened yesterday.

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Whiskey_Nick posted...

I am of the mind shut stuff down as much as possible and ride it out. It will decimate the economy but if all nations actually worked together you could mitigate that. Do stuff like uniformly tax the wealthy around the world and pause things as much as you can with the assumption it goes back to some kind of new normal after.

Since that is a pipe dream, we need to open stuff as safely and smartly as possible, but the problem is most people are insanely stupid of just oblivious.

If we just ignore it like Sweden, we are gonna overwhelm the system and inflate the death rate way more.

I guess really I would just like to see tons of quick accurate testing and tracing while we live this til there is a vaccine or herd immunity. Better treatment options too.

I also speak from a point of great privilege here as I did not lose my job, had 7 weeks off at 100% pay and now am working alone in a school. While my wife was/is able to collect the CERB for $2000 a month since she can't work and needs to watch our kid. So we have faced no financial hardship at all. It's easy for me to say yeah lets just ride this out, because I have been able to. If I were a small business owner I am sure my opinion would be radically different.

@Whiskey_Nick
Just an friendly FYI but the CERB is taxable income but they take nothing off the top so when you do your income taxes next year be prepared to pay full tax rate on the extra $8k you got (if shes getting the full 2k for 4 months). It could also bump her into the next tax bracket.

Also random anecdotal observation: People out at the park on weekends are more likely to have their mask not covering their nose.

Its really fucking irritating.

Not from a health standpoint because I keep distance anyway, but just from a "Dear god our population really is this dumb" sort of way.

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yeah she has been putting aside the amount that will be taxed, I know a great many won't and will be in for a shock when they owe a ton at end of year and don't have it.

thanks for the thoughtful heads up though :)

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I got my stimulus check in the mail finally! Going to put it towards a new gaming tv/ps5 eventually.

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About the guy in the store reaching around the other guy to get something, the mask can prevent the spread via mouth and nose, but there's also the issue of contaminated clothes or skin, so if it was close enough for contact to be involved that could be concerning.

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did i read that post wrong or is ulti personally cooking up a coronavirus vaccine for us?

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CoolCly posted...

did i read that post wrong or is ulti personally cooking up a coronavirus vaccine for us?

You shouldn't put stock in literally anything Ulti says. It's usually either incorrect or an outright lie

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Some good news from South Korea:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/covid-patients-testing-positive-after-recovery-aren-t-infectious

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the netherlands drops another spot on the list of countries with the most cases, from #18 to #19. chile takes the #18 spot.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Some good news from South Korea:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/covid-patients-testing-positive-after-recovery-aren-t-infectious

I remember this being virtually confirmed before, but it's good to see again especially with news of USS Theodore Roosevelt sailors testing positive again, and it's highly likely it's the same thing there.

On another note, my county is nearly at 1% confirmed infections by the official numbers and I'm strongly suspecting we're one of the ones most inflating our numbers with antibody tests.

Otherwise there's a serious outbreak underway here.

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Weird as it may be, you want to see a stupidly high number because that's proving accuracy on asymptomatic cases, which appears to be the overwhelming majority or cases.

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Esuriat posted...

I remember this being virtually confirmed before, but it's good to see again especially with news of USS Theodore Roosevelt sailors testing positive again, and it's highly likely it's the same thing there.

On another note, my county is nearly at 1% confirmed infections by the official numbers and I'm strongly suspecting we're one of the ones most inflating our numbers with antibody tests.

Otherwise there's a serious outbreak underway here.

How is antibody confirmations inflating numbers?

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Corrik7 posted...

How is antibody confirmations inflating numbers?

I'd earlier posted an article from The Atlantic where they talked to Governor Northam's chief of staff about it, and he had admitted to policy including antibody results in the overall state testing numbers. So by "inflating" I mean that it's not giving the clearest picture of the nature of the current spread in my county/the state at large. They say the numbers will be split in the future, but didn't specify when.

I agree with high numbers being "good" in a sense that it indicates better outcomes and fewer people available for infection. I just want more clarity is all.

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Esuriat posted...

I'd earlier posted an article from The Atlantic where they talked to Governor Northam's chief of staff about it, and he had admitted to policy including antibody results in the overall state testing numbers. So by "inflating" I mean that it's not giving the clearest picture of the nature of the current spread in my county/the state at large. They say the numbers will be split in the future, but didn't specify when.

I agree with high numbers being "good" in a sense that it indicates better outcomes and fewer people available for infection. I just want more clarity is all.

The current numbers are still lagged by week's. Antibody positives should just go in as confirmed and recovered.

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