Board 8 > Zelda plays Danganronpa Part 3 - Rise and Shine, Ursine

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mewtwo59 posted...

So it's just Tsumugi, Himiko, and Keebo left to guess, right?

I think so.

When the game sets up something like the Exisal hangars, there's this kind of foreboding feeling of what the final case(s) might be like.

Any blind guess who will be the victim, if any?

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ZeldaTPLink posted...

Gonta: If Gonta kills anyone I'll be very surprised, the dude is innocent as fuck. Only way I could see is if Kokichi convinced him to commit the murder without noticing he was commiting a murder, but that would be complicated.

Ehhh, close enough.

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Gonta getting set up for murder and then execution really got to me. I think I cried during the sequence near the end of the trial when Kokichi explodes and starts yelling at Gonta and other people. Really good voice work from Kokichi's actor in that moment.

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Raka_Putra posted...

When the game sets up something like the Exisal hangars, there's this kind of foreboding feeling of what the final case(s) might be like.

Any blind guess who will be the victim, if any?

I dunno, we are getting to the point where it's hard for there to even be a victim. 1-5 had the Mukuro ploy, while 2-5 was... 2-5. We could just move to figuring out the mastermind or something. Or twarting Kokichi's plan. It's open-ended now.

Kaito could be it, he seems like the most expendable character now. Maaaybe Keebo or Tsumugi too.

Kokichi is definitely way better than Nagito.

Also I didn't like chapter 4 at all, mostly because of several things: I figured out the main trick of the case super easily (anyone thats played old RPGs should get it immediately...), I like Miu a lot, and don't really like Gonta.

Free time. I spend it catching up on the stuff I had seen in my grinding but didn't save. Meh.

I gotta say, Monokuma looks classy as fuck sitting on a presidential chair in front of a top floor window drinking expensive-looking wine.

Yup, Maki will force the two to make peace, whether they like it or not.

Eh... what are you going to use weapons for, Kaito?

Kaito left before she could. Meh. Also, those two are turning into a very cute couple by the minute.

Mysterious stuff happening at the night of Case 5. Here... we go!

Poor Kaito. Little does he know we are probably already in space, though.

Is it just me or there's no motive this time?

Kaito wants people to fight. This sounds like a dumb idea, but feels good to hear it anyway.

I've played a lot of mafia games. Tsumugi clearly feels like a mafioso who is trying to stop the townies from doing something smart but in the end goes along with them not to feel suspicious.

Tsumugi: "One man's moe is another man's trash". Eh... okay?

The plan is interrupted by the only thing possibly scarier than Monokuma. Kokichi.

Again, another fake bomb plot in Case 5.

Kokichi's super evil self can't last much long because he has to lie about it. I mean, he's a bastard, but he'll never be fully serious about it.

Maki, there is a way to make Kokichi talk that doesn't involve killing him. Ever heard of torture? The bastard does deserve it. But I guess you only know how to kill people.

Time to grab the electrohammers, beat the unbeatable mini-game, then find out we are strained in space or something and there's no escaping anyway.

Damn these hammers are OP. And yet it still took me two tries.

There is a non-zero chance opening this door will just suck them all into the vacuum of space. Though that would end the game. lol.

Oh they are not in space. I liked my theory, meh. There are still a lot of hints the school is a spaceship, though, so maybe it has yet to launch. So the truth is basically Tragedy all over again.

The world is so fucked up they can't even breathe, damn.

It's Kokichi, with Demon Face #4. Of course.

Man, if what Kokichi is saying is true, this game can't possibly have a happy ending (at least not like we got in DR3). Only 7 humans are left. And besides, we need a sequel to V3 too!

Oh ok, so we did go to space, then went back to Earth because Monokuma is a dick. I got close enough.

Kokichi just confessed to being the mastermind. And also revealed Demon Face #5. I think at some point his faces will just be replaced by a black cloud or something.

I don't buy it, though. You are lieing again, Kokichi. The game wouldn't just take away the fun of figuring out who the mastermind is.

How you got the control of the exisals is anyone's guess, though.

Time to turn on the new flashback light that came up from nowhere and flip the plot upside down.

Wow I even predicted what the narration was going to say.

Why... am I seeing Hope's Peak Academy? And why is the DR1 song playing?

Did you bastards lie to me, Board 8?

benjamin3740 posted...

I don't feel like it's a spoiler to say this... since it was made clear in the pre-release of this game, and I want to set your expectations. This is a new universe of danganronpa. Danganronpa 3 was the end of the Hope's Peak storyline. Hence why this is V3. They didn't want to be tied down to that expanding story arc anymore

...

Upupupupu.That really was what the promotional materials said.

Well, just...keep playing.

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Ok so this is basically a sequel to DR3.

And the mastermind and/or Kokichi is another fucking lackey of Junko. Should have imagined.

Amazing. They still think the world has been destroyed, but now they remember having studied in Makoto's academy, so they are filled with hope again. Makoto is OP.

I think Kaito has that virus they are talking about.

Himiko trying to make jokes with Maki and receiving death glares is my new favorite character interaction.

Shuichi sees Monokuma, and he decides to sneak up past him instead of realizing there is some kind of trap.

Have I mentioned I love Kaito? Yeah.

Time to make our assult. Or fail at it.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KAITO

Damn guys stop speculating on who the victim could be and read the damn Monokuma File.

The Monokuma file reveals nothing. Of course.

I have to go to sleep for today and I don't know what is worse: the betrayal from B8, or not knowing who is dead.

Raka_Putra posted...

Upupupupu.That really was what the promotional materials said.

Well, just...keep playing.

lmao

I guess you guys just wanted me to have the same experience you had, right?

More or less.
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Hey the moment is a lot more fun when you're not expecting it, and dat music kicks in

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This is a good time to bring up another thing that was repeated by the developers in the lead-up to the game's release. The themes of DR1, 2 and 3 were Hope and Despair. The theme of V3 is Truth and Lies

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And you'll notice they managed to never mention hope or despair in this game at all.... well until where you're at now of course.

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benjamin3740 posted...

And you'll notice they managed to never mention hope or despair in this game at all.... well until where you're at now of course.

Yes I had noticed hope and despair were much less pronouned here. I thought they had just ditched the Ultimate Despair plot altogether and went for something new. After the mess that was DR3, would be nice to have a fresh start.

Its a lie!
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So the most obvious suspects are Kokichi and Kaito themselves. For killing each other. A third party is possible, but I can only see it if it's Maki (for Kaito-related drama) or the Mastermind (in a case that would prolong to 3-6, probably). Tsumugi, Himiko and Keebo are too secondary if they aren't the Mastermind themselves. This is Case 5, it's too plot-centered for random killers.

A new fifth case, a new guitar-heavy song. This one is pretty cool.

For some reason this song is lower than the others. Which makes it hard to listen to without messing with the sound settings all the time.

Tsumugi lampshades how he has few appearances in this game, and how he's second only to Tsumugi. Hmm.

It seems like a remix of investigation songs from the previous two games, and the main theme.

Wow, action really went down at the bathroom. This looks more like a murder scene than the press room.

Oh boy Himiko did shady stuff. And so did Keebo, but Keebo's shady stuff is evidence for Himiko's, so he is less likely guilty.

To see Kokichi's clothes in a toilet seat gives me a strange feeling of glee. It's like that's where the guy belongs.

Monokuma is now openly talking about hope and despair. It's hard to compare to what we had before though, because normally it would be the kubs talking about random shit.

Oooooh Monokuma will execute Kaito/Kokichi if they don't show up. I guess the mystery will be solved now.

Maki is now Munakata. Shit.

The trial starts. But the living guy is waiting "behind the scenes". Damn, Monokuma.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

To see Kokichi's clothes in a toilet seat gives me a strange feeling of glee. It's like that's where the guy belongs.

There was a great quote around Miu's death about how fitting it was she died by being strangled with a toilet paper. That's good.

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Trial begins.

So, I think the obvious explanation is that the murder weapon were poisoned arrows, and the victim was already dead when they were put under the press, otherwise the safety system would have worked.

Oh Maki I know you want to prove Kaito is dead but challenging me to a rebuttal showdown this early? You're gonna be crushed.

And entire game and I'd never noticed Kaito wore one sleeve outside of the arm and the other one normally. lol.

I win the showdown but Maki doesn't give a fuck.

Monokuma brings out the suspect. That was faster than I had expected.

It's Kaito, yay! In an exisal, because why not.

RIP Kokichi. You were an amazing villain. But the same thing I said to Nagito applies to you. Becoming the game's secondary villain does not help your survivability past the penultimate case.

Okay, is Monokuma fucking with me? Of course he is.

I googled the reference and it's Frank Sinatra. That's pretty old.

Okay, video evidence of Kaito being crushed. That's pretty decisive.

RIP Kaito? Eh, I don't trust this game anymore.

"That's because I used my magic to transfer all my barf over to you". lol Himiko, never change.

Kokichi does not know who Junko is. Heh.

"Everything you buy will go on sale the next day Cure". That sounds horrifying.

Oh boy, Himiko helped with the murder by bringing the crossbow there, but only found out what was done with it now.

It's amazing how at a moment like this the writers choose to make Himiko the accidental accomplice, even though she's already had enough screentime in this game. Not Tsumugi. Because Tsumugi must be kept from interacting with the plot at all costs.

"You've been weird since we mentioned small holes!" lol. It would be great if Miu was still alive.

Himiko and Maki both start defending themselves, so we get a 3-way debate. Cuz Kokichi also has to go "maybe I did it lol".

Ok Maki is onto something. The narration suggests it and I agree. This can't just be angst at Shuichi.

Heh. The exisal has a voice changer. Trolls everywhere.

The exisal claims to be Kaito now but I'm not buying until I see it.

Guess: they're both dead/dieing. Maybe they are even both in the exisal. The poison does take a few hours to work.

The gameplay asks me to pick one of the two and I pick Kaito. Hmm... I'm not even sure if I can trust the gameplay anymore. The only damning evidence is that video, but that's too easy. There is no other evidence that I remember, though.

It's debate scum time. And I'll defend the Kaito = dead side.

Debate scum won, but the bastard still doesn't open the exisal.

Yeah Keebo don't consider this won until you've gone through all of that truth bullet list. This game is not trust-worthy.

"Only one arrow was fired". I think that was the easiest non-stop debate in the series. What's even the point?

Oooooh so Himiko only took one arrow to the hangar. Spicy.

I smell balloney.

Might be the first time in this game I actually think the timing is good for a psyche taxi. To figure out some impossible contradiction. Not just repeat stuff that's already obvious.

Oh boy it's Maki who brought the arrows. Tell me she's not the culprit.

Maki came in and killed Kokichi? Then Kokichi killed Kaito? I'm scared that this actually sounds like the most logical explanation.

Oh so that's why Maki said she would use an knife and not a hammer. I love how this series foreshadows things.

Took half a trial but we finally got the poison to be brought up. This is the most critical point of discussion.

Ok so she knows Kokichi didn't do it but she has nothing to lose. If they get a mistrial, Kokichi dies. I wonder who would live, though. Maki herself?

That's a very shitty way to fight for hope, though. Making humanity go extinct. Makoto would yell at you for not shooting higher.

I'm getting 1-5 vibes. Maybe the trial ends here but then is resumed.

Eh no it's the intermission. There's more shit to go down. I feel like we've used almost every truth bullet, though.

Did Maki just admit she poisoned Kokichi? Is it that simple?

Maki gets it. Kokichi's actions have been way too convoluted. There are shenanigans in play. But I don't think she's even close to grasping the depth of those shenanigans. Her theory doesn't even include Rantaro yet.

Kokichi didn't know about remnants of despair because Kokichi didn't know shit. He made everything up.

Oh shit Kaito died to protect this asshole.

This gonna be a triple death. Godanmit. You are evil, Danganronpa.

But Kaito, you are a godamn idiot if Maki gets executed because of this.

This stopped being a case and became a soap opera. I don't mind it, tbh. Cool stuff.

Everything is revealed, but Kokichi STILL hasn't left the robot. This ain't done yet.

Shuichi FTW. The case is only over when it's over.

This is a Phoenix Wright feat right there. The defender confesses and Shuichi is like: "nope, there's something you missed".

Oh shit so the press was the murder weapon after well. What a tweeeest!

I didn't see that coming because I was under the impression the electrobomb was a normal EMP. But reading it carefully, it only disables sensors and communicators. Not mechanical things. And the game led me to believe the press was a fake murder weapon and the poison was the real one, but the poison was the curve ball since the start. Clever.

Oh shit Kokichi just pulled a Nagito. It's impossible to know whether Kaito was still alive when he was put in the press. This case is now a coinflip.

Well there is only one path now imo. Vote Kokichi. If he did it, he dies. If he didn't, everyone but Maki dies. It's not the ideal scenario but at least it guarantees Kokichi dieing and the Maki living, with the others as a possible bonus.

But the fact I'm seeing this path makes me think there is yet another layer to Kokichi's plan. Or whoever is inside that robot.

I try to vote Kokichi, but Monokuma cuts that. lol.

Wait, Monokuma doesn't know who did it? That's against the rules.

Well, makes sense. There are no cameras in this game. Or a program to oversee everything like in DR2. Even if there were cameras, they couldn't check Kaito's pulse while the press was about to crush him.

Oh the electrobomb stopped the cameras too.

A case Monokuma himself can't solve. This is so meta. I love it.

"It's possible that Kokichi is just lying to us". That's the quote that defines this game, tbh.

The cat is out of the bag. Kokichi is just a secondary villain.

Miu for MVP. Hijacking critical Killing Game material. Nobody in the DR1 and DR2 casts ever pulled this off. The closest anyone came to that was Chihiro with that alter-ego.

Monokuma and Kokichi trying to one-up each other is fantastic.

"Monokuma joins your party". FUCK YEAAAAAAAAH. I love this case.

This is making me want to play that case again. Loving it!

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Oh shit it's Kaito who is in the robot isn't he.

How do you even make the body in the video look like someone else though. Is there a way to edit videos nobody knows about?

I'm so confused.

Heh. The pause button. Simple, but sneaky enough I didn't think of it before.

The problem is imagining why Kokichi would even agree to dieing in Kaito's place. I guess this is where we learn his hidden depths, or something? Unless we really have a hidden corpse so they are both alive. But then what is the case about? Nobody is dead?

Though the way it looks now, they didn't even need a corpse. Just the coat and some blood. The press moves down so fast it's hard to see if there's a person under it after the video is resumed.

But Kaito is still poisoned. How does he get to live now?

Maybe they cut someone's arm and put under the press to look like a body when it's just the arm. Also explains where the body comes from. Whoever is inside that exisal is lacking an arm now.

"But I just summed it up so nicely..." lol poor Himiko, you don't get to be the main character.

Oh yeah it's just Kokichi who was crushed. Still, why did he agree to it?

"Victim helped". Another entry in the compendium of awkward Hangman's Gambit phrases.

Well, if Kaito killed Kokichi, then he dies, and Maki lives. But then why not just showing up and confessing? Did he think he could beat Monokuma, or something?

"Who else would agree to die just to execute their plan?". Weeeeeeell... a certain psycho comes to mind. Sakura kind of counts, too.

Monokuma: "no, I'd still kill you all". Such a great party member.

Now let's go over how every character except Tsumugi built this amazing murder plot.

The "dark mysterious figure" wearing Kaito's clothers is hilariously silly.

This game doesn't have an octagon to provide useful items for the resident psycho, but it has a Miu.

Kaito/Kokichi has a point. What if the bodies were just... not switched? There is no proof, both solutions are possible. An AA prosecutor would tear this theory apart.

There are two steps for this now. The kids vote. Then Monokuma decides if they are right or not. And then he verifies if he called that right or not. 25% chance the culprit dies, 25% chance everyone but the culprit dies, 50% the killing game is forced to stop due to Monokuma breaking the rules. That's some nice odds. Nagito would have a field day with them.

We still haven't lied in this trial. I guess now's the time?

Shuichi lieing seems ridiculous at first but then you remember half the cast of this series hides silly things then reveals them mid-case. Shuichi is just playing along with that. I like this development, it turns the whole series on its head. It's self aware. It's delicious.

Well yeah. If they vote for Kokichi and they are wrong, that 25% where only the culprit dies is out. It's either beat Monokuma, or game over. Which is amazing since this is 3-5.

DANMIT KAITO WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Why do you have to be such a shounen hero? Godanmit.

Kokichi wanting to stop the game and save everyone was the reveletation I waited for all game. He's a ~mostly~ good guy all along.

"Why do you think this game started again?", Kokichi asks. Because of Hope. Because of Makoto. Because Maki remembers all of it and you don't. In the end, Makoto ruined everything from his grave. I bet nobody saw THAT coming.

Or... maybe those memories are fake and the first trilogy isn't canon after all? lol. Could see it too.

Someone is watching. But humanity should be extinct. Is there a Future Foundation V3 too?

They keep saying Kokichi is a remnant of despair, but is that even confirmed?

Well, he's saying he wants to bring the mastermind to despair, so maybe he is.

I guess the point of Kaito's sickness is to make his death now a bit easier to swallow. A bit.

YAAAAAAY the kubs are back! Rise and shine, ursine!

Damn, Maki. Why does every case end have to be sad as fuck? This fucking game.

Kaito has literal flaming eyes. Because.

I have a feeling he's gonna be incredibly badass in his punishment scene.

Heh. Kaito refused to be executed and died in his own terms. Screw you, bear!

Goodbye, Luminary of the Stars. And goodbye, Supreme Leader. You two were the best characters in this game.

Junko? Is that you?

I'm not sure if I'm annoyed because this game is not being original or pleased because Junko is one of my favorite villains in fiction. Then again, it's probably another fake out.

Well, the VA matches I think.

Why didn't Keebo show up at the night training scene? This is suspicious af.

HOLY SHIT KEEBO. I'm not even sure if I smile because you look badass now or yell at you because you probably something stupid.

Kokichi killed Miu in cold blood and sacrificed Gonta to do it

He's not a good guy. He doesn't get redeemed

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DeepsPraw posted...

Kokichi killed Miu in cold blood and sacrificed Gonta to do it

He's not a good guy. He doesn't get redeemed

He's not that close to pure evil either. A bunch of people commited killings for good reasons in this series.

Gonta
Kirumi
Kaede
Kaito
Gundham
Peko
Nagito
Munakata
Sakakura
Tengan

All commited killings for what they thought were good reasons.

The difference is Kokichi acted like a smug asshole while doing it.

Every killer THINKS they have good reasons, that doesn't mean those reasons are actually good or justified

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Kaito and Kokichi team-up so good. This case made me change my mind so many times on who was the victim and who was in the exisal.


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Oh, time for the pre-trial theory I had. I thought Kaito had killed Kokichi, took his clothes, and stuffed his body in the stored exisal. Meanwhile, Maki used her Electrohammer to steal the exisal, infiltrate the hanger, saw who she thought was Kokichi, and shot him in the back with a poisoned arrow, killing him. When she figured out that it was Kaito, she panicked and tried to hide her crime by crushing his body in the press and flushing Kokichi's clothes down the toilet. Since the Kokichi murder happened first, Kaito would be the blackened, and Maki would escape punishment.

Basically, I figured there had to have been a story-related reason for there to be a rule about only the first killer being the blackened and I was determined to figure it out. When that exisal came out in the trial and mimicked both Kaito's and Kokichi's voice, I was so fucking convinced I was right that they were both dead, the exisal was a red herring, and Monokuma was just fucking with everyone.

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DeepsPraw posted...

Every killer THINKS they have good reasons, that doesn't mean those reasons are actually good or justified

Sure, but to say they don't deserve redemption is a bit extreme. Danganronpa is not black and white.

MrSmartGuy posted...

and Monokuma was just fucking with everyone.

While that would've been a great way for that trial to play out, 3-5 is great explicitly because Monokuma is the one getting fucked with for once

Hell yeah 3-5.


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3-5 is a great case. Second best in the series behind only 2-5, IMO.

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I really liked 3-5 but I just don't really get the point of Kaito blowing the plan for no particular reason - I think either;

1) the plan works, the game is blown, and that sets the stage for the finale

OR

2) Kaito has to give up the plan in order to save Maki

but it was kind of silly the way they did it

I thought Shuichi had come to the correct conclusion at that point and that's why Kaito decided to come out? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong.
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He had, but I mean, Shuichi was trying to play along with Kaito's plan so it's weird

by the way, with regards to "coming to the correct conclusion", I just want to point out that by this point in the game, Shuichi has a 3-2 record of being correct in debate scrums. good job Shuichi

what if it's actually damning meta commentary on the justice system that the ultimate detective is only barely batting above .500

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I have a full list of scrum debate records but I can't share it because it would spoil the outcome of future scrum debates which may or may not occur

But I'll just say that other characters do better than Shuichi and that's kind of sad (Keebo is 4-1 up to this point!)

I'd count the 3-3 scrum debate as a win for Shuichi (and Keebo). Not voting yet was the right move, even if Korekiyo did end up being Angie's killer. At that time they had no idea that he was her killer or that the two cases were linked, so voting Korekiyo based on the murder that doesn't count was really stupid.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

I'd count the 3-3 scrum debate as a win for Shuichi (and Keebo). Not voting yet was the right move, even if Korekiyo did end up being Angie's killer. At that time they had no idea that he was her killer or that the two cases were linked, so voting Korekiyo based on the murder that doesn't count was really stupid.

I mean, as much as that is true, voting for Korekiyo also would have led to a correct outcome, so the people on that side weren't really wrong. Shuichi was wrong in a "good process, bad result" kind of way. Results wise I still count it as a loss.

It was really weird from a game perspective too because I REALLY thought it was going to turn out to be a thing where Korekiyo wasn't the true killer which would have been a nice twist, and at the time of the scrum debate I was like "oh wow, this is gonna be a great twist!" But then he just kinda was so ok.

Neither side in the 3-3's debate was wrong IMO. Voting for Korekiyo would have worked, but it also would have left mysteries unsolved and was a risky play in general.
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Hbthebattle posted...

Neither side in the 3-3's debate was wrong IMO. Voting for Korekiyo would have worked, but it also would have left mysteries unsolved and was a risky play in general.

Pretty much. Yeah, it turned out Kiyo had done both murders, but imagine being that impulsive in the context of the actual killing game. Whoever makes the next move knows that that they can kill two people, and if they can get one person on the hook for either murder, the group is going to almost certainly vote them the killer of the first victim regardless of the circumstances.

The precedent the group sets by voting Kiyo at that point is just too risky, because a thorough class trial can itself be a deterrent for anyone that thinks of participating.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

I really liked 3-5 but I just don't really get the point of Kaito blowing the plan for no particular reason - I think either;

1) the plan works, the game is blown, and that sets the stage for the finale

OR

2) Kaito has to give up the plan in order to save Maki

but it was kind of silly the way they did it

There was still a 50% chance Monokuma would see through the ruse and get everyone killed. And he wasn't really giving signs of buying it.

And Kaito is a man of principle, he refuses to kill or let his friends kill. It's illogical, but it's why he's so great.

Paratroopa1 posted...

I mean, as much as that is true, voting for Korekiyo also would have led to a correct outcome, so the people on that side weren't really wrong. Shuichi was wrong in a "good process, bad result" kind of way. Results wise I still count it as a loss.

It was really weird from a game perspective too because I REALLY thought it was going to turn out to be a thing where Korekiyo wasn't the true killer which would have been a nice twist, and at the time of the scrum debate I was like "oh wow, this is gonna be a great twist!" But then he just kinda was so ok.

Yeah this game passed on two chances to let someone kill and go unpunished. First with Kiyo, then Kaito. It would be interesting to see the interactions after it happened.

Case 3 is considered the case of ridiculous wasted potential.

• Student Council
• Reviving a dead student
• Double Murder

And then all three aspects of the case that all hold insane possibilities for the future are completely squandered and none of them are ever mentioned again the entire rest of the game.

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Honestly, the only one of Case 3 "missed opportunities" that have any intrigue to me is "Reviving a dead student." And the reason it intrigues me is because of plot revelations we haven't hit yet in this playthrough.

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Just a heads up, the next segment gameplay-wise has a bit of an awkward mechanic and you will almost certainly fail it once. Best to just accept that rather than trying to go all out to succeed your first time through.
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Oh btw guys I'll likely won't do any gameplay until friday. Maybe saturday. Keep the thread bumped for me if I forget.

That won't be an issue at the current purge rate.
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kevwaffles posted...

Just a heads up, the next segment gameplay-wise has a bit of an awkward mechanic and you will almost certainly fail it once. Best to just accept that rather than trying to go all out to succeed your first time through.

To add to this, it's just better to pretend that the mechanic doesn't exist, because there's no penalty for failure.
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