Board 8 > Wwe Mafia Topic 8 This is Awesome *Clap clap clapclapclap*

(+) Yeah! (+)

red13n posted...

Panthera posted...

The exact specifics of the last game were less important than thinking about what might be going on in this one, and Corrik's point about Ulti has some merit to it even if the example he gave might not have been a perfect comparison (which again, I don't know with certainty because I didn't play in that game).

I specifically mention corrik was twisting things to fit his narrative.

Why error on the side of corrik and not the people telling you corrik was outright lying?

I wasn't lying.
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I think red may be town tho.
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Did Ulti have a logical reason for why Panthera was scum?

I mean, like a reason that wasn't astronomical bullshit like everything else he spouted.
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red13n posted...

I specifically mention corrik was twisting things to fit his narrative.

Why error on the side of corrik and not the people telling you corrik was outright lying?

Because I have no reason to assume you are automatically telling the truth? You could be the one twisting things a bit yourself.

red13n posted...

Also you say Star is most likely but then you should be well aware that the game doesn't end there. You don't seem to have anyone connected to him or any sort of backup after his lynch.

Nor you know, much concern that you got to -1 with multiple people still willing to kill you.

I've been focusing on getting one scum lynch moreso than trying to determine the specific team, yes. I've noted you are less likely to be his teammate if he's scum than Puns based on him leaving his vote on you day 1, but that's the only thing that really stuck out to me on that front so far. I'd rather put more focus on getting this one right than on trying to work out theories based on things that aren't even known for sure.

As for being -1 for a moment there...what more concern am I expected to show? I've responded to everyone who voted me (or suspects me, in your case) besides IGCD who doesn't care to share his thoughts with the class. It's not like I didn't notice it, but there's nothing for me to besides try to convince people otherwise and try to convince people to lynch scum instead.

I don't get this argument anyway. Why would this concern me any more or less depending on alignment? I want to avoid my own lynch regardless of whether I'm town or scum. Especially at this juncture where there are almost certainly two scum left and one more mislynch brings us to MyLo, I'd be putting my team one more lynch away from a loss either way. This is flawed logic.
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If puns and red are scum we have alrdy lost btw.
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Corrik7 posted...

If puns and red are scum we have alrdy lost btw.

?
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Panthera posted...

Corrik7 posted...

If puns and red are scum we have alrdy lost btw.

?

They have pocketed igcd and 5tar today. And 5tar will never not vote with them the following day. And IGCD makes sense as the kill because "power".
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If they are both scum, me and Mzero can't outvote them tomorrow either.
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Btw you don't look very good topic 1, Panthera. Explain why soon but it's only topic 1.
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Jesus Panthera is hella town. This is a good sign for us.

those were your opening words on the subject Corrik.

(I'm just doing a quick ctrl-f of "panth").
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Panthera posted...

Good afternoon

SBell, do you have scum reads on anyone who isn't attacking you? So far you think Han is scum and you "questioned" if Puns was when he attacked you. You also said you didn't want to lynch MZero unless it was clear he was scum. What level of clarity are you thinking you'd need and why is it beyond what you'd need for anyone else?

I don't care for Death so far. His point on Corrik talking about role reads openly being similar to scum Corrik's last appearance is weak - Corrik doesn't shy away from trying to openly solve everything regardless and he should know it. He also takes the time to point out that SBell was less angry last game. With Han having earlier said that angry SBell is scum SBell, this seems like a very soft, non-committal attack. Death, tell us how you really feel about SBell

Leaning pretty town on Puns, Han to a lesser extent. I don't necessarily agree with Han's argument about IGCD (it could also be a "just posting to post" thing from scum who wants to make it look like they were active until IRL intervened, so it's null in my mind) but it feels genuine.

Pezlo (I think you're the one person in this game I've never played with, or even heard of before), what gave you your town read on Corrik?

Panthera posted...

htaeD posted...

Also I get the feeling people dont like me unless I am late to the game
Because all these empty accusations are getting annoying.

Do you feel like you can tell a difference between this flavour of Corrik role fishing and town Corrik role fishing? Do you agree that angry SBell is likelier to be scummy SBell and if so, do you feel like he's scum?

Panthera posted...

htaeD posted...

I dont agree that he is scum yet either way, since Hans initial attack would have made me dragged me into a loud argument too, I imagine.

As in, you think Han would have provoked you to be angrier than usual as well?

Panthera posted...

So Pez, based on what you say about Corrik and your post 59 when you kind of explained how you think the game should be played as town (which is why I ask, because you already seemed to address him as town that early on), I'm curious as to how much you know about him. Do you know his play style and how much experience he has in mafia or is he largely unknown to you?

Onto this SBell thing, I thought that the opening flavour plus MZero's post was enough to make the face/heel split obvious anyway even before him saying his PM explained it, which also adds up. I think Scare was being legit in picking on it anyway, though one thing bothers me. Scare, you quoted a Han post about SBell to get hype over him helping lynch SBell with you. In that post, Han said he thought there was enough context for anyone to figure out the face/heel thing regardless because he thought SBell was playing up a lack of knowledge to look better. Did you not think it was odd that Han was thinking SBell looked scummy for acting like he couldn't figure out the face/heel split when your idea was that SBell wouldn't have been able to know the flavour split without being scum?

These are your posts topic 1. For the record.
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red13n posted...

Jesus Panthera is hella town. This is a good sign for us.

those were your opening words on the subject Corrik.

(I'm just doing a quick ctrl-f of "panth").

Yes. Do a quick one on what I first called puns this game also.
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Corrik7 posted...

red13n posted...

Jesus Panthera is hella town. This is a good sign for us.

those were your opening words on the subject Corrik.

(I'm just doing a quick ctrl-f of "panth").

Yes. Do a quick one on what I first called puns this game also.

i know from the panth search you had puns in the town pile early to.

Scare actually saw what I saw in panth yesterday pretty early.

Everything safe and non-committal.
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Topic 2 part 1
Panthera posted...

Hooray for insomnia mafia

I want to direct one question towards Pez...when you voted Tom and made a big point about how Red should react to you...why did you voice that? What purpose does it serve to tell Red how you're going to judge his alignment before you've had much time to start doing it (at that point you'd only hinted a little at reading Tom as scum, so you hadn't given Red a clear view of your "roommate powers" to react to yet)?

Death's whole thing about feeling good about everyone that had posted up to that point when Corrik was pressuring him really sticks out to me. At that time, only Ulti, Eaed and 5tar hadn't posted. Not enough people to fill a team even if all were scum. It feels like that was an attempt to deflect away from not having any strong scum reads, but without being aware that there weren't enough people who hadn't posted for it to make sense to feel good about everyone who had. It really seems like town should be keeping track enough to notice that they have too many town reads to make sense.

##Vote: Death

So Death, you dislike IGCD's few posts. This seems to be the strongest scum read you've shared and not retracted. Hope there's a lot of reason for it!

MZero has been kind of forgotten, so let's change that a bit. He was quick to dismiss IGCD voting Tom as a bandwagon vote that IGCD is apparently known for. Tom has been fluffy enough that I'm not sure why someone would want to quickly jump in to defend him. MZero, do you have faith in Tom being town or IGCD being scum? While I have your attention, you claimed Miller right away, then later said you want people to judge you based on your play, not your claim. You haven't done much since then though. You sure you're not just hoping the claim will let you coast once people get the usual early Miller discussion out of their system?

Still liking Han as town. Pez mostly reads town to me but that point above does bug me a bit.

Corrik, was your early "won't let this happen again!" crusade against MZero particularly earnest or just a way to get people talking?

Think I'll be awake a little longer tonight, then I'll probably be only around in bursts until Monday. This game got going a tad faster than I expected/hoped.

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Panthera posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Who do you think, Mzero? I am confident you are actually town despite my grilling of you and leaving you off my list. You don't have the balls to fake claim miller as scum.

Oh I guess that probably answers my question

Panthera posted...

Corrik7 posted...

And, panth, death or Ulti for my power today? Pretty much decided it will be one of them two at this point.

If it's forced to be used today, Death. Ulti hasn't done much to register with me yet besides saying he likes the thought of sheeping Han because Han either catches scum or busses (incidentally, does Han tend to bus day 1? I don't recall, someone help me out). I don't see Death saying he was at work as being much of a defense, the fact that Death said he didn't have a solid scum read on anyone who had posted yet means he can't really have been defending someone who hadn't posted yet.

Otherwise I'd prefer not to see day 1 turned into a 1v1 when the end of day chaos tends to be informative (and I enjoy the b8 special shenanigans, but that's neither here nor there).

htaeD posted...

Also you are mistaken in assuming that I called everyone who already posted town.
Thats a mathematical impossibility of course, so why would I believe it? I said I didnt dislike the posts made so far. That doesnt mean I thought they HAD to be town..

Why would you believe it? That's the point. You didn't find you had any scum reads. You should know you should have had some. So why didn't you try to change that? You said you would, but here we are and not much has come of it. You didn't call everyone who had posted town, but you said you didn't have scum reads on any of them and haven't really budged from that stance beyond the IGCD thing, which still leaves us in the same place with you being oddly lacking in scum reads and not showing much interest in changing that.

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I'll just stop here for a second.

The reason I think you are so town is because you say basically everything I think is logical, sound, and what I think in many regards.

However, I never seen you actually just sit here and just pile up so many questions here. I am not even sure you follow up on the vast majority of them. I am not sure where your end point was on most of them.

For example, you make these big walls asking all these questions and then you kind of just disappear. You don't very often really interact with the actual game much. Everything you say is logical and sound. But, not sure you are trying to see who is actually scum. Even with the death vote there. This is only the first two topics tho.
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The Panth I remember fooling soundly as scum with Chris was likewise on my wavelength all game with logic. Very sound, logical. Just happened to be wrong. But, I remember you interacting more and making conclusions more. You seem to just be asking questions to people so they know you posted because you asked them something and nothing much comes of it.

This may change later but your first 2 topics do not look good. I'll keep going.
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Topic 3
Panthera posted...

Got some catching up to do

Okay Puns is town, reread the beginning of this topic if you doubt it. He's genuinely annoyed at how Ulti is attacking his activity. Like, look at that and tell me the mindset is anything but "what the fuck is this guy for real attacking me for this stupid shit". It does not read like fake, forced anger at all. That said I don't get the case on Ulti, how is that mixing up his suspicion between games (is this even a thing that happens?) when he's using the fact that you went to sleep to explain why you didn't post for a while to try to show you were only lower on activity last game when you were busy, unlike this game in his mind? That doesn't really add up to me.

SBell has been super defensive and kind of defeatist this game, like the majority of his posts are getting frustrated at suspicion of him and lamenting it (what was with that post about not being vengeful enough to be okay with being mislynched?). That said it's starting to feel more like an attitude thing than an alignment thing. I don't want to lynch him today as it stands, but I do like several of the people on him, so could Han, Ulti or Puns (I know you just unvoted but you're there in spirit) reiterate the case on him beyond just him being kind of frustrated/mopey?

Not liking IGCD pretty much saying he doesn't feel the need to provide any thoughts, I know people are saying that he's like this in general but that's kind of an easy excuse to hide behind. IGCD, you said at one point that you felt like people were just posting a whole bunch of nothing. What about the discussions that had been going on made you think they weren't particularly relevant? Right now that's feeling like just a way to give yourself an excuse for not posting much by acting like it's not worth your attention anyway.

Still pretty sold on Death being scum. I want to draw attention to this post to add to what's been said before.

htaeD posted...

actually Eaed could replace Puns on that list
If only for this confusing waffle of a sentence I just came across.

-Corrik feels like scum, at the time it seemed like he had a true contraction on Death. It makes me like Corrik but I like Corrik early last game too.

He later backed off on it when Eaed said he'd mistyped and meant to say "feels like he's hunting scum" (lot of words to forgot, but okay). When I saw this post, I got confused for a moment and then realized Eaed just typed the wrong thing. I do not trust putting Eaed on the Gladiator target list over this when it's so easy to realize what was meant. If he said he disliked the post for the hedge on Corrik, sure, but he only went to that after Eaed clarified what he meant to say. This feels like someone just going for an easy/obvious contradiction to push instead of really thinking things through to figure them out.

Ulti, you said you think Death *is* trying to figure the game out and that as scum, he fakes activity. I don't see him trying to figure things out, and he's posted a lot while being pretty non-committal and got caught up in the Corrik argument for ages (in fairness, Corrik is good at distracting people). What are you seeing here differently than I am?

Pez, how recent is your experience playing mafia with Tom? You seem very sure he hasn't changed his play. In particular, why was his little flavour trap thing against Corrik a play you can't see him making as scum?

Death is scum. Don't like IGCD much. I'm seeing a lot of talk about Red being a scummy lurker but no one seems to want to do anything about it, which is fine by me because I don't really see it (Red is often lurky as town and he has reason to be busy here). Tom has been very fluffy. Actually Tom why were you treating Han/SBell as if it had to be scum/town and not town/town, but thinking that either could be the scum (though you lean more to SBell obviously)?

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^ This post was better than the first 2 topics worth, but it is to be said you didn't want eaed to be gladiated. Who is who I would have day 1.
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Topic 3 you are much better in regards to my problems with topic 1 and 2 so far.
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And then that is it. You make like 6 posts topic 3. How many posts did you make all of day 1?

On topic 4.
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Corrik7 posted...

I do not trust putting Eaed on the Gladiator target list over this when it's so easy to realize what was meant.

fuck I saw this just now too.

shit.
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Panthera posted...

Pez for sure. Puns and Han most likely. SBell by extension of 5tar's perspective slip. Leaning positive on Ulti. Think I like Corrik too.

Now, my catch up post I just made gave you five of those six reads. So why did you feel the need to ask this in general instead of asking about other players I didn't mention or for further details on the guys I need? This post bugs me.

There is a very real possibility that every last person in your reads here is correct.

Puns is the only person who hasn't flipped town on your town list.

Pez and Sbell and Han and Ulti flipped town. I am Town.
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Panthera posted...

Okay looking back over Scare I don't really see Pez's argument of him being around but not contributing. When he was around he was generally pushing reads and engaging with people. Not necessarily pressing super hard on much but he wasn't just going with the flow by any means. He had like one brief stretch earlier today of being kind of fluffy, but that's it.

Do people have other arguments against him? Because this one at least doesn't seem to add up.

And u don't seem to think scare is scum either.
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Panthera posted...

pezloco posted...

Go back and read his posts in Topic 1 and Topic 2. I picked that time frame because that's when I felt like scum was just letting town go at itself. Through topic 1 and topic 2 he had an exchange with Corrik. But mostly he just said I think this person is scum. Or I think this person is town. He didn't give much reasoning, just stated those opinions and left it as that.

He didn't give a lot of reasons on people beyond 5tar, but at the same time, his reads were basically that active people not named Ulti were town while the less active people were scum. Like, check this post out:

ScareChan posted...

1. Pezlo - town
2. Tom - sheeping pez
3. Ulti- scum
4. Eaed- town
5. Corrik - town lean
6. Sbell - barely town lean
7. Scare - mmmm
8. puns - town lean
9. IGCD - town lean
10. 5tar - scum
11.Han - town
12. Panth - scum lean
13. MZero - town
14. Death - town lean
15. Red- scum

Almost everyone who was active are town reads. His scum reads besides Ulti (who he later said he was faking the read on IIRC) are largely low activity players. I think I'm the most active out of that bunch and I had only been online for a few stretches at that point. So if he's scum trying to let town kill itself, why was he nudging people away from thinking the active players (the ones that would have to be almost all town for your idea of his intentions to make sense) were scum and directing attention to the other people whose activity could also look like they were sitting back? It doesn't really add up for scum to let town go at it in this way but then not try to capitalize on it by joining in.

Panthera posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

kinda the point that sticks in my head where I started souring on Scare is when he announced he had nothing to say

This is the one post that really bugs me from Scare, but I don't think it's nearly enough to make me lean scum on him.

Add scare to your not scum list and you are basically perfect on the entire game so far. Hold on
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Has panth gone after anyone but death and star this game?

I'm not counting ulti his reasons for that lynch were all just logic stripped from other people.
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Panthera posted...

I think Death leaving his vote on Red right after Han and Puns said the Red train was a trap is ballsy enough to make him less of a focus to me.

##Unvote
##Vote: 5tar

I am going back to this and am bothered by the way the game just forgot about him. His thought process has not felt like coherent scum hunting and those posts to Pez and SBell feel like perspective slips, though SBell is starting to give me pause with his argument about IGCD and Ulti both being scum if one is. There was a lot of attention on him and suddenly everyone forgot and there doesn't seem to much reason for it. Why?

I still haven't seen what makes the Scare lynch appeal to people beyond what Pez said, which I disagree with but at least it's an answer. Not sold on Red either, he got fluffier today I think but prior his posts had a decent enough amount of content to make it plausible he's just busy with the Disney World thing. IGCD looks like an alright lynch but Tom's vote on him was very opportunistic and makes me rethink it. I'm getting pretty wary of Tom at this point.

I feel like this day is starting to boil down to repeating reads without the explanation to make them persuasive.

Panthera posted...

Obellisk posted...

I have not forgotten. I caught the slip.

I have not cleared 5tar at all.

Rather than finding out if god can die, make a 5 star play and lynch 5tar.

Obellisk posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Hey Stu.

Odds of a Han/Puns team?

I could see it. Han has been particularly belligerent.

Is this a scum tell or just a Han thing? I'm pretty sure I've seen him be pretty aggressive as town.

You don't seem to want to Lynch IGCD because you don't like Tom's argument.

Tom scum
IGCD town
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Panth disappears end of the day 1 with no posts at all in the fin 3 or so pages towards the end of it. Despite declaring he will be around until deadline.
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Day 1 you correctly pegged

Han, sbell, Ulti, me, pez as town.

Didn't want to my IGCD likely town cuz Scum Tom voted him.

Didn't want to Lynch red. (Unconfirmed alignment).

Said puns was town (unconfirmed alignment).

Called death scum (town)

Leaned town or had town on scare (town).

Didn't want to gladiate eaed (town).

Said 5tar is scum (alignment unconfirmed).
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Either you are playing one of the best games as town day 1 with no info or you know too much.

= /
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If puns is town, every single person you said was town in that post is town. Every single one.
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I think you are a good player at mafia as town. But... Is that... Too good?
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Panthera, you wouldn't try to emulate my scum play of feeding town correct info and watching them squander it would you?
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Also to be noted that once I backed off of gladiating death is basically when you switched gears to 5tar.
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Panthera posted...

So Tom and Ulti are scum. Death and IGCD are town. So that leaves Pez, Eaed, Corrik, Puns, 5tar, MZero and Red (and me, but I have a good feeling about myself). Pez looks like almost certain town to me. Corrik is probably town, Puns looks town to me too. So Eaed, 5tar, MZero and Red are where I'd expect the last two scum to be. MZero really sticks out there, I know he's never super active but he's been very irrelevant this game. Same with Red but at least he has a Disney World excuse. I don't want to let him off the hook for it but I also don't want to lynch him for it. He seemed alright on day 1 when he did post but today hasn't been as solid. So I'd lean towards MZero and Red out of those four.

Heres more of him.

He forgets to talk about Star and Eaed entirely.
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lol it really is just panth and star isn't it. wow.
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I don't really think that Panth and 5tar can be on the same team.

That would mean that Panth hard bussed his teammate who supposedly has very little experience for the entire game. And that 5tar made that host flavor argument against his teammate.

It is possible, but... I mean, that's wild.
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red13n posted...

Panthera posted...

So Tom and Ulti are scum. Death and IGCD are town. So that leaves Pez, Eaed, Corrik, Puns, 5tar, MZero and Red (and me, but I have a good feeling about myself). Pez looks like almost certain town to me. Corrik is probably town, Puns looks town to me too. So Eaed, 5tar, MZero and Red are where I'd expect the last two scum to be. MZero really sticks out there, I know he's never super active but he's been very irrelevant this game. Same with Red but at least he has a Disney World excuse. I don't want to let him off the hook for it but I also don't want to lynch him for it. He seemed alright on day 1 when he did post but today hasn't been as solid. So I'd lean towards MZero and Red out of those four.

Heres more of him.

He forgets to talk about Star and Eaed entirely.

Doesn't look like he forgets to talk about them. He moreso just says u and Mzero are scummier than them too. Also. To be fair.
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Also if 5tar votes with Panthera today he joins me and Mzero on likely lynching puns.

5tar and Panthera as a team seems extremely implausible.
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Early on I mean. I was between red or puns.
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Btw if that host flavor thing would end up being right, Panthera should be furious.
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Panthera, defend yourself from the merciless assault.
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Corrik7 posted...

Doesn't look like he forgets to talk about them. He moreso just says u and Mzero are scummier than them too. Also. To be fair.

the elaboration. he gives a big list of people that he hasnt crossed off the list. talks about all of them but eaed and star.
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Panthera does look hella bad in retrospect, but I so want him to be town. = /
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no way in hell, now very possibly town corrik.
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his day 3/4 dont even have any opinions on anything. regurgitated logic and one unique vote.

i think the one person he actively questions on anything is igcd and igcd is as confirmed as it gets.
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His Day 1 is what really irks me. It is way too accurate.

I wouldn't even feel bad if he ended up being town because it would just confirm my buddy Panthera was fucking on fire day 1.

But, I mean, to be that accurate (assuming puns is town), on day 1 with no info. That's a tad unbelievable...
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Bump
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guess I don't have much to say this morning unless anyone directed something at me last night that I overlooked

turbopuns3 posted...

guess I don't have much to say this morning unless anyone directed something at me last night that I overlooked

Uh you can comment on what I said on Panth.
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