Board 8 > Wwe Mafia Topic 8 This is Awesome *Clap clap clapclapclap*

(+) Yeah! (+)

turbopuns3 posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Okay. Tell me why that is because I think that is the likeliest team.

Alright fine. First answer this, what do you think are scum's remaining roles

Godfather and roleblocker.
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And I think you would be godfather and red roleblocker specifically if that scenario is correct.
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Did you forget your defense angle or something?
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MZero11 posted...

Only way i see a scum gladiator in this setup is if he has to target scum

This is dumb and ignoring the obvious btw. If Corrik is scum gladiator there is more than likely a condition to prevent gladiator+double vote from being an auto win than there is "gladiator is scum suicide only".

I'm going to reiterate I am way way less trusting of mzero than the rest of you.

also there was a post from yesterday(Game yesterday, not last night yesterday) where I really started to think panth was scum, give me a bit to track that down. (It was a longer one spaced after corrik/me/ulti had been going back and forth for awhile).
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Panthera posted...

If Ulti is actually town, then Red pretty much has to be town too I think? If Red were scum, he'd have little reason to stop town Ulti from being mislynched. If he believed Ulti was Vanilla, he'd think it was a mislynch that would also make IGCD a possible mislynch. Good, possibly game winning for scum. If he believed Ulti was power, he'd think it was a mislynch of town power. Good for scum. No reason for him to point out the one inconsistency that could save Ulti.

If Ulti is scum, it could go either way. Red could be scum trying to save a teammate and possibly bait IGCD into taking back his track (we can assume scum knew all along that was fake if Ulti is scum) and make himself look bad, Red could be town who thought he'd caught onto something legit. Not 100% sure which is likelier. The scum possibility probably due to wanting to lynch Corrik who should be seen as town regardless due to his role. Not guaranteed though.

I don't think it was this one but this was definitely part of what I've seen from panth the last couple days. "Everyone is town, everyone is maybe not town but wishy washy maybe maybe town".

So much just not taking a stand in anything here.
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Panthera posted...

Good evening. Oh hey Corrik did the thing.

Alright so Red does raise a good point about IGCD tracking Ulti to Scare being bizarre if Ulti is scum since Tom would more likely have been the one to kill the claimed cop, but Corrik is right that Ulti might just insist on Strongmanning Han because he respects/fears him. Meanwhile, for Corrik to be scum...Gladiator isn't an extra kill exactly but it's pretty close since in practice scum can target someone they know they can beat. It's a 90% free mislynch, and this scum team already had a lynch manipulation role in the double voter. Corrik is likelier to be town than scum based on that alone.

If we lynch Ulti, it confirms IGCD one way or the other, so that guards against any sort of weird scum IGCD hero ball play. If we lynch Corrik, if he flips scum that confirms Ulti town (which makes the IGCD situation weird since we have to judge whether Ulti is just obsessed with lying about being Vanilla or if IGCD is actually scum...or this tracker framer thing exists but that seems too improbable to count on), if he flips town it doesn't really tell us anything.

Lynching Ulti seems like the better option here. Both he and Corrik have good reasons why they should be town, but Ulti's reason goes away if you assume his team made a questionable play in who to Strongman, which is not impossible, whereas Corriks reason remains solid no matter what. In terms of play, I think Corrik looks more like town than Ulti has. Ulti likely gives more information on lynch, since even if he's town he confirms one scum for us.

So I'm leaning towards lynching him right now. But I want time to think on it some more to make sure I'm not missing anything.

It was this one. Definitely this one. He continues to throw out X then Y statements but then just never takes a hard stand on anyhting.
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Corrik7 posted...

And I think you would be godfather and red roleblocker specifically if that scenario is correct.

Ok

So red is roleblocker

Day 1 final votals was Sbell 4, red 3

Me and red both were voting the scum extra kill

In what world do we not ensure red the roleblocker lives, when SBell was super easy to vote, and instead park our votes on the extra kill on day 1

The mental gymnastics you'd have to go through to think that is the case as opposed to just going with the much simpler idea of us not being scum, is so high. Like it's borderline willful conspiracy theory to think red and I are scum together

Corrik7 posted...

Did you forget your defense angle or something?

turbopuns3 posted...

fyi I have been being kind of active from work this game but today I'm going to have a new person shadowing me so I won't be refreshing gameFAQs constantly lol

Also I'm a little messed up on time and event sequencing right now, but something I've been considering with Corrik, because I -think- it was him that brought up that scum should have thought Ulti was town power(If someone could help verify, because I could be mis-remembering).

Have we ever considered that Corrik maybe said fuck it and tried to gladiate down town power as scum? Because that gladiate still makes no sense from a town perspective.

It feels like to me we have some bad role meta somewhere.
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red13n posted...

that gladiate still makes no sense from a town perspective.

Yeah I agree with this. I said yesterday, that gladiate was by far the scummiest thing he's done this game.

red13n posted...

it was him that brought up that scum should have thought Ulti was town power(If someone could help verify, because I could be mis-remembering).

Have we ever considered that Corrik maybe said fuck it and tried to gladiate down town power as scum?

The assumption was Ulti would have been protection who visited scare

I think pez's Night 2 flip would've put that to bed

turbopuns3 posted...

The assumption was Ulti would have been protection who visited scare

I think pez's Night 2 flip would've put that to bed

i'm not sure you are thinking this all the way through.

You see elite bg flip as scum. You have a track of ulti to Scare.

As scum, are you not now flipping the fuck out as to what ulti actually is.
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red13n posted...

As scum, are you not now flipping the fuck out as to what ulti actually is.

Uhm. Idk it's hard to imagine honestly.

Ulti already claimed vanilla on day 2. And on day 1.

And they *probably* didn't block him night 1 so like....ehh.

It's a possibility but not one I can really dive into beyond the surface of "what if"

Could reread start of day 3 I guess

turbopuns3 posted...

Uhm. Idk it's hard to imagine honestly.

Ulti already claimed vanilla on day 2. And on day 1.

And they *probably* didn't block him night 1 so like....ehh.

It's a possibility but not one I can really dive into beyond the surface of "what if"

Definitely a guessing game. But you've got to be at least thinking its something scum is likely in a slight panic with.

Assuming we are all buying IGCD as town(Which we should be, only 2 scanners etc)
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##Vote: Panth

Red putting in the work is enough to lynch Panth, enough so that if panth is town I will lynch red tomorrow.
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Rereading day 3 pre-gladiate

Ulti outright said he bought IGCD as town even before IGCD admitted he lied.

So scum probably did not think Ulti was a mystery power.

turbopuns3 posted...

Ulti outright said he bought IGCD as town even before IGCD admitted he lied.

So scum probably did not think Ulti was a mystery power.

I'm confused by this logic. Explain?
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Drawing Corrik's attention to this day 3 post in case he is town because if so he needs to see this again

turbopuns3 posted...

Imagine I'm scum. How does Scum Puns saying "corrik please gladiate Ulti" result in Corrik full claiming.

Like.

Do you think I literally don't know you or something

How is that a legitimate angle for Scum Puns.

"I'll pressure Corrik to claim his real role by mentioning gladiator. Got emmmmm"

red13n posted...

I'm confused by this logic. Explain?

Ulti claimed scan on me. IGCD claimed track of Ulti to Scare. Ulti claimed vanilla and tried to hellmurder IGCD and called everyone in the game fucking morons for thinking Ulti was scum.

So when he comes around and says "actually IGCD is probably town who got tracker framed" it's like...how would that align with him wanting to kill the shit out of IGCD for claiming it in the first place if Ulti actually DID target Scare?

##Unvote

I am still 100% on board Panth train but -1 makes me feel uneasy right now. I am glad to know IGCD is on board though.

turbopuns3 posted...

So when he comes around and says "actually IGCD is probably town who got tracker framed" it's like...how would that align with him wanting to kill the shit out of IGCD for claiming it in the first place if Ulti actually DID target Scare?

you probably have a handle on this better than me. Did he start saying tracker frame on day 2? I thought it wasn't til day 3.
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because I thought we left day 2 in an ulti or igcd suicide scenario with death having temporarily put that to rest.
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It wasn't until day 3

To simplify it - why would Ulti have ever tried to hellmurder IGCD at all if he knew IGCD's track was accurate? (and Ulti was town)

kk I think I get it. Ulti went crazy on IGCD so scum would think something messy with those town scans and that something was fishy with them.

Is that right?
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Votals
Panth(2) (puns,) 5tar igcd
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I see red is still legitimately doing nothing.
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Corrik7 posted...

I see red is still legitimately doing nothing.

If Panth is town I'll help you lynch Red tomorrow.
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That is literally, I don't even know. You haven't said anything in the last 4 hours and suddenly I'm not doing anything?

I was taking a shower for the last hour. I havent had one in over 2 days due to plane shenanigans. If you are somehow trying to imply I went inactive for some reason corrik.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Corrik7 posted...

I see red is still legitimately doing nothing.

If Panth is town I'll help you lynch Red tomorrow.

He has 48 hours today to read 7 topics and make substantial arguments based on the game. I am not jumping to anything. Red is logical as town and can figure things out if so. If his arguments are manufactured, it will help reveal his alignment. Or his refusal to try and figure out the game.
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red13n posted...

That is literally, I don't even know. You haven't said anything in the last 4 hours and suddenly I'm not doing anything?

I was taking a shower for the last hour. I havent had one in over 2 days due to plane shenanigans. If you are somehow trying to imply I went inactive for some reason corrik.

If you take hour long showers, you need to start respecting whoever pays the water bills in your household.
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I take hour long showers and spend a lot of time watching over my grandpa, yes.
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Good afternoon...oh

So are we just going to ignore that 5tar drops the fucking derpiest ass flavour argument ever made and then moves on and pretends it never happens when I point out how utterly asinine it was? Someone tell me how and why this guy looks like he's actually trying to figure anything out here.

5tar: What flavour was I "supposed" to get? What was the believable flavour for me? How was Sultan, a guy who doesn't know me at all, supposed to have determined this well enough to know that Ricochet doesn't fit me? Answer me please.

Alright. Red, your attack on me is misguided. I don't think I ever left it unclear what I actually thought was the right course of action (lynching Ulti), I was just upfront about being unsure about the situation...because I was! IGCD revealing his track was fake made it so I couldn't be totally confident Ulti was scum anymore, so of course I had to work through it. I like to describe my thought process so other people know what I'm actually thinking and can either be persuaded by it or convince me of exactly where I'm making a mistake. I don't make 100% definitive declarations without 100% confidence, I think about what seems likelier to be true, and day 3 was a situation where there was nothing to be 100% confident about. I make it clear who I'm intending to vote for, open to voting for, not going to vote for, etc and why, but I don't try to hide that I know I'm not guaranteed to be correct.

Anyway.

##Vote: 5tar

Not going to leave the only votes in the game on my when I can at least try to get scum lynched today. Looks like the scummiest player to me and hey, given how worked up he gets over suspicion maybe this will get him to actually answer me.
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spicy

Hello Puns

turbopuns3 posted...

Ok

So red is roleblocker

Day 1 final votals was Sbell 4, red 3

Me and red both were voting the scum extra kill

In what world do we not ensure red the roleblocker lives, when SBell was super easy to vote, and instead park our votes on the extra kill on day 1

The mental gymnastics you'd have to go through to think that is the case as opposed to just going with the much simpler idea of us not being scum, is so high. Like it's borderline willful conspiracy theory to think red and I are scum together

Given SBell had just claimed protection, one scum in Tom already switched onto him *and* a townie in Pez voted him to put him ahead (and the day ended a minute or two early), I'm not seeing that it's airtight to assume scum would have just piled on there instead of watching to see if the 4-3 lead held up.
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Panthera posted...

Alright. Red, your attack on me is misguided. I don't think I ever left it unclear what I actually thought was the right course of action (lynching Ulti), I was just upfront about being unsure about the situation...because I was! IGCD revealing his track was fake made it so I couldn't be totally confident Ulti was scum anymore, so of course I had to work through it.

You realize that for one of those posts, IGCD had not revealed his track was fake, right?
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Votals
Panth(2): (puns,) 5tar igcd
5tar(1): panth
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Panthera posted...

I'm not seeing that it's airtight to assume scum would have just piled on there instead of watching to see if the 4-3 lead held up.

I guess you've never played with scum me.

I'd have jumped on SBell so fast to save red. Literally zero fucks given about looking scummy in that situation

red13n posted...

You realize that for one of those posts, IGCD had not revealed his track was fake, right?

The one where I said lynching Ulti was the better option but I wanted time to think to make sure I wasn't missing anything was, yes. I don't see where the problem is in saying not to end day instantly. You brought up the idea that IGCD's track didn't fit well with Ulti being scum, was I supposed to just ignore you? I thought about what you said, realized it had merit but wasn't conclusive enough for my liking, and said lynching Ulti seemed like the right idea but I wanted to have time to think it through just to be sure. Your argument seems to be that I should have been certain in believing something (Ulti = scum) that you had just tried to convince us wasn't actually certain.
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turbopuns3 posted...

I guess you've never played with scum me.

I'd have jumped on SBell so fast to save red. Literally zero fucks given about looking scummy in that situation

I don't think I have, at least not in a long time. I'm familiar with you personality-wise but not in terms of identifying the difference between town and scum Puns.

So for anyone who is familiar...does Puns indeed like to pile on in situations like that just to be safe even if it makes him look worse?
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Panthera posted...

The one where I said lynching Ulti was the better option but I wanted time to think to make sure I wasn't missing anything was, yes

what exactly did you think you were missing?
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Will Raw get less than 2 million viewers this week?

Probably will. :3

red13n posted...

what exactly did you think you were missing?

The fuck? If I knew what I was missing I wouldn't exactly be missing it, would I? The whole point of explaining my thought process is to show the game what I am thinking so that IF I AM MISSING SOMETHING, someone can point it out to me instead of just herp derping along saying "welp I feel one way and I am perfect so X is confirmed scum and Y is confirmed town because I say so"
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more specifically, why buy into corrik's theory that ulti was allowed to make a random strongman on the wrong target?

if you recall, the time before was not "strongman the nonpower and just regular kill the power".

Corrik was being disengenuous. The time Ulti was allowed to not strongman power they left the power alive to block them(Which actually is a correct play).

This time both powers died. Theres no reason to believe they strongman'd anyone but scare. You literally were buying into corrik drivel that never made sense in the first place.
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red13n posted...

more specifically, why buy into corrik's theory that ulti was allowed to make a random strongman on the wrong target?

if you recall, the time before was not "strongman the nonpower and just regular kill the power".

Corrik was being disengenuous. The time Ulti was allowed to not strongman power they left the power alive to block them(Which actually is a correct play).

This time both powers died. Theres no reason to believe they strongman'd anyone but scare. You literally were buying into corrik drivel that never made sense in the first place.

You mean the point you made literally the post after I posted what I did? You mean why didn't I know about something that hadn't even been said yet? Gee, I wonder. It's almost like I like to take my time in case there are things I'm missing or something.

Why would I recall the context of a game I wasn't even playing in?
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Taking a break for supper and entertainment before I start getting too worked up, bye
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@IfGodCouldDie

Can you put into words why panth looks like scum to you, beyond just why you're willing to vote him based on situational stuff

Panthera posted...

You mean the point you made literally the post after I posted what I did? You mean why didn't I know about something that hadn't even been said yet? Gee, I wonder. It's almost like I like to take my time in case there are things I'm missing or something.

Why would I recall the context of a game I wasn't even playing in?

This is part of where my faith in both you and mzero was lost btw. Because you both bought into the dumb "ulti did this last game"(He didnt) and didn't have much(any) of a reaction when I flat out told you that it wasn't the case.
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And I'm going to reiterate that area of the conversation is where I really started to peg this game for scum corrik. He started slanting things that werent true to fit his narrative of scum Ulti.
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Just a simple voting intent breakdown for people to digest.

Ulti: Corrik, MZero, 5tar, Death Panth, IGCD
Corrik: Ulti, Red

puns ?

I'm going to reiterate this for everyone, unless you think the scumteam is red/puns (Spoilers we are both town), Ulti was absolutely a scum-supported lynch.

Death is dead. IGCD is confirmed town unless you really think we only have 1 scanner(Please dont go crazy and think this).
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