Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 463: Better Viewership Than Raw

(+) Yeah! (+)

Breezango :(
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StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

I like how you cite things that died of their own accord save Becky Lynch, the only person who actually did what was necessary to get and stay over.

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.

You're kidding with this post, right

A post this dumb can't actually be real

Zack Ryder is a bad wrestler who got over by being a dork on a YouTube channel. Great, how do you channel that into something meaningful on WWE TV week to week. I'm not sure who I see on the roster where I'm going "man, that guy is stealing Zack Ryder's spot."

Cesaro is a terrific wrestler without a ton of charisma. So what does he get to do? Just have MotN candidates PPV and PPV with The Shield, the New Day, the Usos, Gallows and Anderson, etc. Wow, poor dude.

And Rusev was literally challenging for the WWE title not too long ago and is currently challenging for the US title. So an upper midcard act is being treated like... an upper midcard act.

Its incredibly hard to see any of them as other than their expected roster placement. None of these guys were destined to be continuous main eventers with multiple world title reigns.
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I lament Apollo Crews placement a million times more than any of those three.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Zack Ryder is a bad wrestler

nah, he's good enough to be a midcard staple

heck I'd take him over Roman on anything except look and maybe physical strength, so maybe he SHOULD be the top guy lol
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TheRock1525 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

I like how you cite things that died of their own accord save Becky Lynch, the only person who actually did what was necessary to get and stay over.

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.

You're kidding with this post, right

A post this dumb can't actually be real

Zack Ryder is a bad wrestler who got over by being a dork on a YouTube channel. Great, how do you channel that into something meaningful on WWE TV week to week. I'm not sure who I see on the roster where I'm going "man, that guy is stealing Zack Ryder's spot."

Cesaro is a terrific wrestler without a ton of charisma. So what does he get to do? Just have MotN candidates PPV and PPV with The Shield, the New Day, the Usos, Gallows and Anderson, etc. Wow, poor dude.

And Rusev was literally challenging for the WWE title not too long ago and is currently challenging for the US title. So an upper midcard act is being treated like... an upper midcard act.

Its incredibly hard to see any of them as other than their expected roster placement. None of these guys were destined to be continuous main eventers with multiple world title reigns.

Dude. You have to be joking.

They actively kill the crowd reaction for these guys as hard as they can. They make sure that they get the reaction they want. So by the time we have Rusev going for the title, it's already months and months past when he is most popular and he was still a heel when he went for it, and it was a meaningless match as a result. They literally did not include Cesaro and Ryder on TV when people were going insane for them so they would cool their reaction. They made Becky try for the cheapest of heat to get booed instead of cheered like people wanted.

They fight against the crowd reactions constantly. It's fine you think that this is these guys' ceilings, but it's ridiculous to say "Well, look. They ignored what the crowd wanted and now they're in a comfortable spot!" So why even cheer at all? Why boo at all? Why bother trying to tell this company anything you want knowing full well they will just ignore you.

Imagine if they continued to ignore Daniel Bryan's positive reaction like they had with these other guys. They fought kicking and screaming against pushing Daniel Bryan. Their third biggest star had to literally quit for Daniel Bryan to get a chance and for them to give the crowd what they wanted. We had one of the best times in wrestling when we got what we wanted. They made the crowd happy. There's a reason we have never had anything like that again because this company does not give a shit about giving people what they want.

I don't even know why I have to explain why they should listen to crowd reactions instead of actively fighting against them.
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Currently watching old CHIKARA with Double C and Cesaro has plenty of Charisma. In ring especially. Let him do his thing and he will get the crowd in to it no problem.

WWE have just taken multiple steps to ensure the crowd never gets to behind Cesaro because they don't want him getting it.
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TheRock1525 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

I like how you cite things that died of their own accord save Becky Lynch, the only person who actually did what was necessary to get and stay over.

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.

You're kidding with this post, right

A post this dumb can't actually be real

Zack Ryder is a bad wrestler who got over by being a dork on a YouTube channel. Great, how do you channel that into something meaningful on WWE TV week to week. I'm not sure who I see on the roster where I'm going "man, that guy is stealing Zack Ryder's spot."

Cesaro is a terrific wrestler without a ton of charisma. So what does he get to do? Just have MotN candidates PPV and PPV with The Shield, the New Day, the Usos, Gallows and Anderson, etc. Wow, poor dude.

And Rusev was literally challenging for the WWE title not too long ago and is currently challenging for the US title. So an upper midcard act is being treated like... an upper midcard act.

Its incredibly hard to see any of them as other than their expected roster placement. None of these guys were destined to be continuous main eventers with multiple world title reigns.

you're right on zack. the other guys, congrats, you perceive them as wwe has portrayed them. you also believe wwe's pigeon holes and that a star can only be a certain type of act. rusev and cesaro have both been on the edge of main event levels of overness at some point and been killed by wwe treating them as significantly less than that, then some people come on the internet and espouse that wwe treated them correctly because that is how they perceive them. maddening but you will continue to get the product you deserve.

Like, this company has not a single star because they only star they had was Roman Reigns, a guy who was booed every single time he came out, and now he's gone. They sacrificed everyone else and all this time and effort into making this guy a star that half the people don't want.

So they have no stars left. AJ isn't there yet. Seth isn't. Braun isn't. They're the only other three even close and they have failed to make them stars because they focused too much on Roman.

This company has no major draws in it now and it's a major reason why they are in the deficit they're in.
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First off, some serious revisionist history on Rusev and Cesaro. Especially Rusev, who was a consistent figure on Smackdown during the Rusev Day gimmick with high profile matches and title opportunities. And he was literally fighting AJ Styles, one of the most over acts on the roster, so excuse me if I don't think that he was gonna be a full fledged face there.

And you act like they spent years fighting Becky's current reaction. They spent, what, a month? 6 weeks? Wow they just fought tooth and nail over it. This ain't Roman here.

And you say that they constantly fight crowd reactions but it's just simply not true. Why is Bobby Lashley heel? Why is Elias face? Why did Braun initially turn face? Why did the New Day initially turn heel and later turn face? Why did the Usos initially turn heel then later turn face? Why did Charlotte turn heel both times? Why did Sasha turn face after her initial heel run from NXT all the way to the main roster? Why did Seth Rollins eventually turn face? Why did Ziggler turn face after WM29? I could go on and on but once you get past "Roman will never turn" they're generally open to everyone moving alignments based on fan reaction.

Like you really don't get why writers and performers come out say what they say and then you turn around and basically say "they actively hate us and never will give us what they want." The issue is the lack of compelling storytelling, not that they "constantly fight our reactions." Its funny because Daniel Bryan is running a super meta storyline right now that's pointing out exactly what I'm talking about and most "smarks" don't get it, either. They're actively booing him for pointing out our super obvious behavior and we literally don't have any response but to get mad about it.

But whatever, I'm sure that in a month we'll hear about how Becky is getting overpushed and she's not as good since they stopped "fighting" her reaction.

After all, don't we wish we lived in a reality where Ryan "Ryback" Reaves is a multiple time world champ?
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https://twitter.com/thewadekeller/status/1073034497921310720

To put it bluntly:

If PrivateBiscuit had his way, literally one of the most over, most well-decorated acts in WWE history would have never existed.
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Rusev got his title shot. After months and months of being a heel act. While still a heel act. When the crowd wanted him to be a face. Are you just purposefully missing the point?

They spent at least two moths fighting against Becky's face reaction. With how much of a reaction they got two weeks was too much. Especially since they wanted her face from the beginning and they turned her heel in the first place.

And you cite a bunch of examples there, but they still waited months on each of them past their most popular, so they just get so-so reactions after. And even then, did anyone feel that passionately about it like they did these other guys? Why is it that when people really want something they won't give it to them, but when people are giving an opposite reaction sometimes they'll eventually go "Okey dokey I guess we'll just book them as face or heel" sometimes without an actual turn, or an actual turn when it's convenient that doesn't elevate anyone most times. Like, out of most of those heel or face turns, when did they ever get a big reaction? It just sort of ends up happening no big deal. If they never turned them, would people have gotten upset or have kept calling for it? Very unlikely.

We all know the storyline suck, but let's not act like WWE is so gracious in giving people what they want when the crowd reactions for years has been contrary to that.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like, out of most of those heel or face turns, when did they ever get a big reaction?

Almost all of them? Did Elias not get a huge reaction for blasting Corbin? Did Bobby Lashley not get booed to high heaven for his post-match beatdown of Owen's? Did Charlotte not get a massive reaction to beating down Ronda? Etc.

But I think the most telling thing is that you can't simply disagree with me, its simply I'm just the dumbest person ever. This is the level of hostility that writers and performers are pushing back against. It can't be simply "hey can we get better payoffs and storylines, the talent is there and we see examples within the company." Nope, its "YOURE DUMB AND STUPID AND YOU ACTIVELY HATE THE FANS." Then you act confused when you get push back from them and Daniel Bryan is calling you out on it but he ain't getting the Becky Lynch "but we'll still cheer you" treatment.
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"Why would they do a stupid Drake Maverick pisses himself spot?"

*fans chant "A-O-P-P" the next night*

Okay.
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It's actually kind of impressive that Rock manages to start a different argument in this topic series every day.
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I'm starting to get why XIII and Nick generally avoid these topics and why the last one purged.

There's being critical of the product.
There's being negative about the product.
Then there's reaching such a level of cynicism that if you're not even AS negative about the product as others then you're a stupid idiot.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Then there's reaching such a level of cynicism that if you're not even AS negative about the product as others then you're a stupid idiot.

When I read that, it was in Chris Jericho's voice.

As far as the topic purging, I can't speak to others, but I would assume that when most people aren't watching there isn't a lot to discuss. No idea how accurate that is though!
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TBF, There's been VERY little to rave about WWE this last quarter except for the most recent Takeover and Evolution (8/10 show, If I'm being honest) and the Buddy/Ceddy Match at SSD.

Everyone has pretty much disowned Clown Jewel.

Also, The main roster hasn't been that great.
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TheRock1525 posted...

And you act like they spent years fighting Becky's current reaction. They spent, what, a month? 6 weeks? Wow they just fought tooth and nail over it. This ain't Roman here.

I still can't believe that you still think WWE "gave the fans what they want" on Becky and didn't just adapt to a situation they felt was more important (Rousey).

Hell, this past Smackdown just proved Becky's still a heel in WWE's eyes.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Then there's reaching such a level of cynicism that if you're not even AS negative about the product as others then you're a stupid idiot.

Also this isn't the case. What makes somebody a "stupid idiot" is when they say things like "Rusev and Cesaro are exactly where they deserve to be" and then go apeshit on somebody for saying "I don't trust WWE with this Becky angle." You say people get on your case for not being negative, but you got on my case for even daring to think this angle isn't going to be utterly perfect.
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TheRock1525 posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like, out of most of those heel or face turns, when did they ever get a big reaction?

Almost all of them? Did Elias not get a huge reaction for blasting Corbin? Did Bobby Lashley not get booed to high heaven for his post-match beatdown of Owen's? Did Charlotte not get a massive reaction to beating down Ronda? Etc.

But I think the most telling thing is that you can't simply disagree with me, its simply I'm just the dumbest person ever. This is the level of hostility that writers and performers are pushing back against. It can't be simply "hey can we get better payoffs and storylines, the talent is there and we see examples within the company." Nope, its "YOURE DUMB AND STUPID AND YOU ACTIVELY HATE THE FANS." Then you act confused when you get push back from them and Daniel Bryan is calling you out on it but he ain't getting the Becky Lynch "but we'll still cheer you" treatment.

Admittedly I haven't seen the instances you spoke of, but I was referring more to the ones like Braun turning face the first time which I recall did not get as big of a reaction as it could have gotten had they built it up proper. Same with New Day face turn and Usos face turn, among others. They do these things sometimes with no real reaction.

I can absolutely disagree with you. But when you try to tell me things like "They gave Rusev his spot! They gave you what you wanted! When you cheered for four months straight for Rusev Day, we gave you his uninspired heel run, refusing to let you have him face, and they we gave him a meaningless title shot with barely any build up and kept him heel! And then we finally turned him face after you guys gave up and split up his act entirely and stopped giving you a reason to chant for Rusev Day in another really bad storyline! This is exactly what you wanted and you still complain!" And then telling people that everyone that people wanted to be pushed were in the right spot because WWE didn't push them when they were at their most popular, so therefore it's right. Steiner made a good post that blew that idea up, so read it again if you don't get how dumb that is. And you tried to even tell me my opinion doesn't matter because I don't watch NXT which I still don't understand at all.

Like, you aren't making all stupid points, but you're making some really dumb ones, but acting like you shouldn't be called out for the bad ones.

TheRock1525 posted...

"Why would they do a stupid Drake Maverick pisses himself spot?"

*fans chant "A-O-P-P" the next night*

Okay.

Literally the same company that showed an entire montage of people doing that Fandangoing, including at freaking sports events, and talking about how cool it is, and then having Fandango come out and tell the crowd how stupid they are for doing that and that they shouldn't do it at all. And so people stopped doing what was super popular.

Vince found AOPP funny, and it went on and on, but did you notice AOPP wasn't chanted after that? And that the segments became death? This company does not care what is popular. They care if Vince is entertained by it. Nothing more.
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Watching a lot of older WWF there is something to be said for the opposite being a problem too.

They can't always be overturning all of their long term plans because an unexpected fan reaction happened

Even with Austin as he unexpectedly started getting face pops during his King of the Ring run it was still a FULL YEAR before they actually turned him which as you may recall worked pretty well.

Yes they are UNBELIEVABLY stubborn on some points like Cesaro (how many times does he have to get over on the Strength of his skill as a worker for them to finally realize they have something there?) and on others Rusev was getting over as a face with a heel act and predictably when they turned him face finally it didnt go well because.... Its not a face act. We argued about it in this topic and it came true.

But they have been reasonably nimble on some points and given smackdown I find it REALLY HARD to complain about Becky given that this angle with her charlotte and Asuka has been just about the only compelling thing they have been running aside from Bryan.
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Eddv posted...

Yes they are UNBELIEVABLY stubborn on some points like Cesaro (how many times does he have to get over on the Strength of his skill as a worker for them to finally realize they have something there?) and on others Rusev was getting over as a face with a heel act and predictably when they turned him face finally it didnt go well because.... Its not a face act. We argued about it in this topic and it came true.

I agree with everything except Rusev. They barely had Rusev and English as an act together as a face, and it was working. They just did it poorly and broke them up very quickly after, which is what they wanted to do even before the face turn.
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HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

And you act like they spent years fighting Becky's current reaction. They spent, what, a month? 6 weeks? Wow they just fought tooth and nail over it. This ain't Roman here.

I still can't believe that you still think WWE "gave the fans what they want" on Becky and didn't just adapt to a situation they felt was more important (Rousey).

Hell, this past Smackdown just proved Becky's still a heel in WWE's eyes.

What she do that was super heel-y on Smackdown? Because all I saw was her talk shit per usual then get attacked by Charlotte so she retaliated. Like was Asuka a heel because she smashed people with a weapon, too?
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Eddv posted...

on others Rusev was getting over as a face with a heel act and predictably when they turned him face finally it didnt go well because.... Its not a face act. We argued about it in this topic and it came true.

I disagree with this because literally like a few short weeks into them actually being faces and getting cheered, they nuked the angle by starting to tease a breakup for months on end. It was definitely working initially.
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HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Then there's reaching such a level of cynicism that if you're not even AS negative about the product as others then you're a stupid idiot.

Also this isn't the case. What makes somebody a "stupid idiot" is when they say things like "Rusev and Cesaro are exactly where they deserve to be" and then go apeshit on somebody for saying "I don't trust WWE with this Becky angle." You say people get on your case for not being negative, but you got on my case for even daring to think this angle isn't going to be utterly perfect.

I have literally never said that but a-o-fucking-k.
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TheRock1525 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Then there's reaching such a level of cynicism that if you're not even AS negative about the product as others then you're a stupid idiot.

Also this isn't the case. What makes somebody a "stupid idiot" is when they say things like "Rusev and Cesaro are exactly where they deserve to be" and then go apeshit on somebody for saying "I don't trust WWE with this Becky angle." You say people get on your case for not being negative, but you got on my case for even daring to think this angle isn't going to be utterly perfect.

I have literally never said that but a-o-fucking-k.

TheRock1525 posted...

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.

...?
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Talking about the latter half of your statement. Never ever said that the WWE couldn't possibly screw up Becky Lynch.
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The annoying singing guy thing doesnt work as a face.

Even with Elias, his sing a longs have been death as a face.
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The answer is always, always, ALWAYS "they can't write." It will never not be "they can't write."

The reason is, they can't write.

WWE wants TV writers, and TV writers don't want WWE. All you get in that instance are the people so bereft of talent that they can't land anywhere else in the world. It's not a matter of too many cooks. It's a matter of the many cooks lack even one singular good cook. It's like hiring every sous chef from Hell's Kitchen and thinking you can open a restaurant that way. No. You need one Gordon Ramsey in there for quality assurance, or else you have a shitty restaurant. That's WWE.

You ever notice that on Game of Thrones, super minor characters develop followings? Game of Thrones pushes an extremely large cast for about 8 hours a year, and yet most of them get over in the roles presented. Honestly, more than most. Virtually all of them. Yet WWE provides more than that amount per WEEK and can't figure out how to get over its characters? Minor jobbers should still have personality and still be popular. Cesaro, Ryder and Rusev should all still be popular regardless of wins and losses. The Attitude Era didn't even have good writers - it had mediocre writers - and they were able to get over a guy with a mannequin head who hardly ever won and Scotty 2 Fucking Hotty. It's all about writers, it's never not about writers, and the sooner you stop putting anything on the workers, the sooner you'll get it. Bad actors can succeed with good scripts. Good actors flounder with bad scripts. It doesn't matter if you wrestle like the second coming of Misawa if you're being handed the scripts from the second coming of Bosom Buddies.
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It's not that the writers can't write.

It's that the average writer is asked to rewrite a 3 hour show dozens of times every week for a job they've probably been on for a relatively short time.

Imagine asking someone to write the Avengers multiple times every week. That's Raw.
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WarThaNemesis2 posted...

It's not that the writers can't write.

It's that the average writer is asked to rewrite a 3 hour show dozens of times every week for a job they've probably been on for a relatively short time.

Imagine asking someone to write the Avengers multiple times every week. That's Raw.

Ever go see an improv performance? A small group of players can make up multiple hours a show multiple times a week. It's not hard.

And you know what? You're not writing a three hour show. You're writing what should be - at most - an hour show. The rest is wrestling or simple angles presented in sentences. "Randy Orton puts Rey Mysterio through announcers desk post-match." That was really hard to write. You have absolutely NO excuse. Vince isn't an excuse. You can write well and still cater to Vince. I'm sorry, but it's true. Yes, the content may be immature and stupid, but it can still be dressed up with good writing. And it can still get over everyone involved.

I'll also throw in camera work. It's shoddy, terrible, and it ruins backstage segments every time. That, too, needs to be reworked. But it's the writing. When you are bankrupt of creative expression, it doesn't matter what Vince says or does.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

It's not that the writers can't write.

It's that the average writer is asked to rewrite a 3 hour show dozens of times every week for a job they've probably been on for a relatively short time.

Imagine asking someone to write the Avengers multiple times every week. That's Raw.

Ever go see an improv performance? A small group of players can make up multiple hours a show multiple times a week. It's not hard.

And you know what? You're not writing a three hour show. You're writing what should be - at most - an hour show. The rest is wrestling or simple angles presented in sentences. "Randy Orton puts Rey Mysterio through announcers desk post-match." That was really hard to write. You have absolutely NO excuse. Vince isn't an excuse. You can write well and still cater to Vince. I'm sorry, but it's true. Yes, the content may be immature and stupid, but it can still be dressed up with good writing. And it can still get over everyone involved.

I'll also throw in camera work. It's shoddy, terrible, and it ruins backstage segments every time. That, too, needs to be reworked. But it's the writing. When you are bankrupt of creative expression, it doesn't matter what Vince says or does.

Okay and how many of those improv shows are done by people with little experience because where they work is so awful that their average co-worker lasts like 6 weeks?
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The work is only awful because the rest of the team is comprised of bottom-of-the-barrel talent that can't even get work on a soap opera. WWE is the lowest form of TV writing and there's no back-end pay for ratings success and there's no opportunity for critical success within the industry and your current company is so massive yet cannot make a single connection for you outside of this company because it's so poorly regarded by Hollywood. It's a dead-end job where, yes, your point of view was maybe relevant in 2006, but it's not relevant anymore. It's an institutional problem now. It's bad because it was bad and it will now continue to be bad because no good writer dreams of growing up and working for the worst show on television.
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Okay I think we're agreeing in general, just for different reasons. I think the writers sucking is the fault of management rather than the writers themselves.

And I'm too lazy to grab the '34 camera cuts in 32 seconds Smackdown beatdown' but yes the camerawork is like Kevin Dunn watched the worst TNA camera work from like a decade ago and went 'what if I make this even worse'.
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What's funny is that when you take RAW out of the equation, WWE is really good right now.

Smackdown is good.
205 Live is great.
NXT might be the strongest it's ever been.
NXT UK is great.
The original content is fun.
We get cool stuff like the Mae Young Classic.

But because RAW is routinely not good it overshadows everything.
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TheRock1525 posted...

What she do that was super heel-y on Smackdown? Because all I saw was her talk shit per usual then get attacked by Charlotte so she retaliated. Like was Asuka a heel because she smashed people with a weapon, too?

She just watched Charlotte cheat and beat up Asuka, a face, and then Asuka was portrayed as the conquering face that took both out and got to be cheered standing tall. The hero shot to close out the show was literally Asuka standing over Becky.

WWE has them as squabbling heel and heel people like less, Becky and Charlotte respectively, and face Asuka.
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HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

What she do that was super heel-y on Smackdown? Because all I saw was her talk shit per usual then get attacked by Charlotte so she retaliated. Like was Asuka a heel because she smashed people with a weapon, too?

She just watched Charlotte cheat and beat up Asuka, a face, and then Asuka was portrayed as the conquering face that took both out and got to be cheered standing tall. The hero shot to close out the show was literally Asuka standing over Becky.

WWE has them as squabbling heel and heel people like less, Becky and Charlotte respectively, and face Asuka.

By the way, that's the absolute worst because the person who stands tall on the go-home show always eats the pin.
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Because Asuka is the conquering face. Becky is the morally questionable Austin-style face. That should be pretty obvious when she says she's gonna slap everyone on the roster after telling them to form a line.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

What she do that was super heel-y on Smackdown? Because all I saw was her talk shit per usual then get attacked by Charlotte so she retaliated. Like was Asuka a heel because she smashed people with a weapon, too?

She just watched Charlotte cheat and beat up Asuka, a face, and then Asuka was portrayed as the conquering face that took both out and got to be cheered standing tall. The hero shot to close out the show was literally Asuka standing over Becky.

WWE has them as squabbling heel and heel people like less, Becky and Charlotte respectively, and face Asuka.

By the way, that's the absolute worst because the person who stands tall on the go-home show always eats the pin.

I'm not sure how Asuka eats a pin in a TLC match for a title.
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TheRock1525 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

What she do that was super heel-y on Smackdown? Because all I saw was her talk shit per usual then get attacked by Charlotte so she retaliated. Like was Asuka a heel because she smashed people with a weapon, too?

She just watched Charlotte cheat and beat up Asuka, a face, and then Asuka was portrayed as the conquering face that took both out and got to be cheered standing tall. The hero shot to close out the show was literally Asuka standing over Becky.

WWE has them as squabbling heel and heel people like less, Becky and Charlotte respectively, and face Asuka.

By the way, that's the absolute worst because the person who stands tall on the go-home show always eats the pin.

I'm not sure how Asuka eats a pin in a TLC match for a title.

It just means that it's the person that gets the most clowned in a match.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Because Asuka is the conquering face. Becky is the morally questionable Austin-style face. That should be pretty obvious when she says she's gonna slap everyone on the roster after telling them to form a line.

Nah. The fact that we were supposed to cheer Asuka over BOTH of them means they're both shades of heel. WWE does not think Becky is a face right now. They're just portraying her as slightly less heel than Charlotte.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Because Asuka is the conquering face. Becky is the morally questionable Austin-style face. That should be pretty obvious when she says she's gonna slap everyone on the roster after telling them to form a line.

They deserve it though. Especially Randy Orton.
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Don't get me wrong, Asuka standing tall means a 99% chance she doesn't win. Everyone knows that.

It's just that it's weird to say that for a TLC title match when there won't be a pinfall.
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HashtagSEP posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Because Asuka is the conquering face. Becky is the morally questionable Austin-style face. That should be pretty obvious when she says she's gonna slap everyone on the roster after telling them to form a line.

Nah. The fact that we were supposed to cheer Asuka over BOTH of them means they're both shades of heel. WWE does not think Becky is a face right now. They're just portraying her as slightly less heel than Charlotte.

Becky cuts promos literally thanking the crowd = they still think she's a heel.

Alright.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Don't get me wrong, Asuka standing tall means a 99% chance she doesn't win. Everyone knows that.

It's just that it's weird to say that for a TLC title match when there won't be a pinfall.

It was just a generalization. You're really reading too much into it. In a TLC match, it's like being the person who stands for 30 seconds on top of the ladder while someone else runs up it really fast and grabs a title.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Smackdown is good.

As someone who still watches Smackdown I'd call that very strong.

It's watchable but until like a couple of months ago was basically 2 hour Raw.

Now Raw is heel authority figure and Daniel Bryan has been entertaining so it has clearly overtaken 2 hour Raw, but I still wouldn't call Smackdown good. It hasn't been legit good on a regular basis by even the most generous definition since Talking Smack went off the air.
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I just don't think Asuka is gonna look bad in this match. If anything, I think they'll be building her up because if the route is Ronda/Becky then Asuka is likely gonna be in the Smackdown women's championship scene.
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I have more faith in the Smackdown team booking her strong, but I'm very cautious because they have a very difficult time on Smackdown with making more than two people in a division matter at a time.
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Yeah, I just take it as maybe trying to give Asuka some of her credibility back.
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