Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 463: Better Viewership Than Raw

(+) Yeah! (+)

scarletspeed7 posted...

You would think that would help 205 Live because they're all shorter.

fucking hell

205 Live's problem is they fucked up using Cruiserweights on Raw (and continue to fuck them up) so it is impossible for people to care enough to go out of their way to check it out, especially since it's not even advertised.
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205 Live's problem is deeper rooted than that and goes back to why I said it was a bad idea from the day it was announced - as long as there are 205 pounders in the main events on raw and smackdown, "205 live" means jobbers. If Finn Balor and Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio aren't part of the division, it's not a cruiserweight division, it's a loserweight division.

STElNER posted...

205 Live's problem is deeper rooted than that and goes back to why I said it was a bad idea from the day it was announced - as long as there are 205 pounders in the main events on raw and smackdown, "205 live" means jobbers. If Finn Balor and Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio aren't part of the division, it's not a cruiserweight division, it's a loserweight division.

This. The only thing the cruiserweights have is being small. Their work is very normal. Being small only helps if you're extremely small.

Just like how being big isn't enough to really help get over if you're Big Cass's size and work like a normal person instead of Braun Strowman's.
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Either that or the Cruiserweights start wrestling in an extremely different style from the 205ers on the main roster already. That's what made it work in WCW more than anything else.
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Fuck what anyone says, I still feel 205 is the best overall product farmed out by the company and generally delivers 9/10 times. Even on when the show isn't all that it's still watchable.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Either that or the Cruiserweights start wrestling in an extremely different style from the 205ers on the main roster already. That's what made it work in WCW more than anything else.

no doubt this would help. but the problem is that people have been bringing that cruiserweight style to main events since WCW, so it's not possible to do the same thing again. the level they'd need to compete at to get over on ring style alone would be insane, and wwe does nothing to present their matches in a way that any of the roster could justify going out there and killing themselves for every night. it's a doomed idea in 2018 wwe.

Hardcore_Adult posted...

Fuck what anyone says, I still feel 205 is the best overall product farmed out by the company and generally delivers 9/10 times. Even on when the show isn't all that it's still watchable.

just so you know, my argument has never been "205 live is bad". there's a whole different more nuanced argument i'm making here - that it's bad for business, bad for the guys involved, and absolutely impossible to get over in its current incarnation.

STElNER posted...

on ring style alone would be insane

This I don't necessarily agree with but

STElNER posted...

wwe does nothing to present their matches in a way that any of the roster could justify going out there and killing themselves for every nigh

This is definitely accurate. With a 32 guy roster, I think a show with the pacing and quality of the Cruiserweight Classic would be successful, but WWE can't figure out how to reduplicate that success. You don't have to kill yourself in every match, and it's especially better if you spread out the roster equally and showcase them equally, but there's no incentive to do anything but phone it in with WWE's lack of interest in its own product.
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They just had Ali take on Bryan so maybe they'll start integrating them more

I can dream
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SD viewers up slightly from 1.948M last week to 1.977M this week
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^ It was actually a good episode tedious Rap battles notwithstanding, so...
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https://twitter.com/BeckyLynchWWE/status/1072979658113802242

So Graves has been saying Im too cocky, and I talk too much on social media - like thats a bad thing. I drum up more interest in 1 tweet than you do with 5 hours of your Heenan-lite routine every week. Listen, Im here to make history, youre just here to observe me do it.

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Apparently people got on Brian Alvarez's case because he said it was pathetic they got their worst ratings this week, and Jimmy Jacobs, Seth Rollins, a former writer, and others were on him with the defense "It's really hard and people think they can write the show and they don't get it's really hard." And the ex-writer said that it's difficult to write to fans that pay you money while looking for reasons to hate you. Like what the fuck is with these people, like this is an excuse.
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Its not our fault we arent as good at our jobs as we were before.
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If I'm underperforming at my job I'm just going to say "This job is just really hard." He'll tell me to get another god damn job.
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To be fair, if you're working on a show for years I can't imagine it being easy to try and keep things new, exciting, and original.

It's not so much an excuse for the current product as an acknowledgment of it being a difficult process in general. There's no reruns and they're writing more weekly TV than ever.
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It doesn't need to be new, exciting and original all the time. It needs to not be aggressively stupid though. It's not "really hard" to not write garbage like every recent Drake Maverick or Dean Ambrose promo which actively turn people away from the show.

It's honestly not that hard to copy New Japan plotlines.
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The entire attitude era featured aggressively stupid ideas. I don't feel like any of the current problems are unique to the modern scene except the over reliance on part-timers.
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Difference is Attitude Era stupid worked (for the most part).
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Or that most of us were teenagers when we watched it.

I actually cringe rewatching the undercard of AE Raws.
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I cringe way less watching 96-97 Nitro than 99-00 RAW.
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TheRock1525 posted...

To be fair, if you're working on a show for years I can't imagine it being easy to try and keep things new, exciting, and original.

It's not so much an excuse for the current product as an acknowledgment of it being a difficult process in general. There's no reruns and they're writing more weekly TV than ever.

I'm not going to say it's easy, and a lot of it is out of their control, and I don't blame them actually, because their job is not to write for the fans, their job is to write for an out of touch senile man who doesn't have his pulse on anything the fans wants and actively rejects what they want because he doesn't care.

It's just a ridiculous response to say "It's hard" for entirely wrong reasons, or use it as an excuse for why their ratings suck. Or more hilariously, to blame the fans saying that all they want to do is find a reason to hate everything, when they tell you constantly what they'd like to see and no attempt is made to give them what they want!

It's Vince's fault for like almost all of this and I don't understand why he doesn't see this as a personal failing and that he needs to step away.
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^ Unless HHH and Steph smother him with a pillow (like that would stop him anyhow), the company's direction isn't changing any time soon!
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TheRock1525 posted...

The entire attitude era featured aggressively stupid ideas. I don't feel like any of the current problems are unique to the modern scene except the over reliance on part-timers.

Something they did on Raw this week that irked me that they almost NEVER do but other companies dont give a shit about is have a match won without a ref.

One thing I actually appreciate about WWE as opposed to the worst of WCW is that they are a stickler for TECHNICALLY upholding structural integrity to the matches. You never see shit in WWE like Hogan winning a strap match against Vader by dragging Ric Flair to all four posts.

But it happened Monday in the TLC match
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To be fair, fans aren't very good at knowing what they want, just simply what they don't want.
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Jakyl25 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

The entire attitude era featured aggressively stupid ideas. I don't feel like any of the current problems are unique to the modern scene except the over reliance on part-timers.

Something they did on Raw this week that irked me that they almost NEVER do but other companies dont give a shit about is have a match won without a ref.

One thing I actually appreciate about WWE as opposed to the worst of WCW is that they are a stickler for TECHNICALLY upholding structural integrity to the matches. You never see shit in WWE like Hogan winning a strap match against Vader by dragging Ric Flair to all four posts.

But it happened Monday in the TLC match

Wait, there are refs in TLC matches?
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TheRock1525 posted...

To be fair, fans aren't very good at knowing what they want, just simply what they don't want.

This might be one of the most absurd things I've ever seen you post.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

The entire attitude era featured aggressively stupid ideas. I don't feel like any of the current problems are unique to the modern scene except the over reliance on part-timers.

Something they did on Raw this week that irked me that they almost NEVER do but other companies dont give a shit about is have a match won without a ref.

One thing I actually appreciate about WWE as opposed to the worst of WCW is that they are a stickler for TECHNICALLY upholding structural integrity to the matches. You never see shit in WWE like Hogan winning a strap match against Vader by dragging Ric Flair to all four posts.

But it happened Monday in the TLC match

Wait, there are refs in TLC matches?

Someone's gotta signal to the timekeeper.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

To be fair, fans aren't very good at knowing what they want, just simply what they don't want.

This might be one of the most absurd things I've ever seen you post.

How so? Ask 10 fans to fix RAW and you'll get 10 different answers.

Hell you won't even watch NXT anymore no matter how good it is. You're not really helping the case here.
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Jakyl25 posted...

You never see shit in WWE like Hogan winning a strap match against Vader by dragging Ric Flair to all four posts.

Or Hogan touching 3 of the 4 posts in a strap match, punching an interfering Lex Luger, then dropping the leg on Ric Flair and pinning him, only to then touch the 4th post afterwards.

lol WCW
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Now, WCW was actually a viable alternative before Incompetence set in.

Their tag matches in the early 90s were awesome.
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TheRock1525 posted...

How so? Ask 10 fans to fix RAW and you'll get 10 different answers.

Hell you won't even watch NXT anymore no matter how good it is. You're not really helping the case here.

This is even sillier of a post.

The crowd is often cheering and booing people explicitly to tell then what they want and don't want. Remember Becky Lynch and how they took months and months and actively fought the crowd to make her heel?

Remember Rusev Day?

We can even go back. Remember Cesaro? Remember Zack Ryder?

They don't listen to a thing the crowd wants. These are just off the top of my head, things the crowd cheers for that they never get because WWE fights against it.

And further, what does NXT have to do with anything? I don't watch it because I don't have time and I'm not paying for the network because I refuse to give an awful company my money when they fail to entertain me?
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Wait... are you NOT entertained?
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You're seriously missing on NXT except for Takeover Post-Mortem episodes where about 2/3 of the ep is recaps and the other 1/3 is promos/ads/squashes.

It's literally one hour of taped tv,less if you skip the ads.
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TheRock1525 posted...

To be fair, fans aren't very good at knowing what they want, just simply what they don't want.

Fickle?
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^ Fickle?
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I like how you cite things that died of their own accord save Becky Lynch, the only person who actually did what was necessary to get and stay over.

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.
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Like Christian, Vince just didn't care for Cesaro.
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Everyone wanted Sasha Banks until the fans suddenly determined she was a botch machine.

Everyone wanted Bayley until they decided she was a terrible promo with a stale gimmick.

Ruby fucking Riott has been significantly better than both of them on the main roster. Who had nowhere near the rabid NXT fanbase.
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TheRock1525 posted...

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.

This is absolutely fucking ridiculous and I refuse to believe any intelligent human being would actually believe that those three failed entirely because of their own deficiencies.
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Zack Ryder absolutely did what was necessary and was actively sabotaged by WWE
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

How so? Ask 10 fans to fix RAW and you'll get 10 different answers.

Hell you won't even watch NXT anymore no matter how good it is. You're not really helping the case here.

This is even sillier of a post.

The crowd is often cheering and booing people explicitly to tell then what they want and don't want. Remember Becky Lynch and how they took months and months and actively fought the crowd to make her heel?

Remember Rusev Day?

We can even go back. Remember Cesaro? Remember Zack Ryder?

They don't listen to a thing the crowd wants. These are just off the top of my head, things the crowd cheers for that they never get because WWE fights against it.

And further, what does NXT have to do with anything? I don't watch it because I don't have time and I'm not paying for the network because I refuse to give an awful company my money when they fail to entertain me?

The problem is mainly that the talent isn't the problem.

Even if they HAD promoted X hot hand they have demonstrated time and again that they don't know how to present a compelling product.

We just had AJ fucking Styles with like a super long title run that had a large number of really good matches anf its not like that changed anything.

Why? Because the angles were uninspired, drawn out, circular, and dull.

Everything they do between May and January feels like it is designed just to kill time.

Because it is.

Who gives a shit that they didn't promote Rusev. Even if they had they 100% would have fumbled it. Because That's what they do.
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TBF, I didn't particularly have high hopes for Bayley even with that showing in the Ironwoman match at that Takeover.
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Hell, nobody wanted fucking Elias and now he's one of the most popular acts on the main roster.

Imagine two years ago asking a fan who should be pushed on the main roster, you think anyone is gonna say "Push Elias Samson."
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Eddv posted...

Who gives a s*** that they didn't promote Rusev. Even if they had they 100% would have fumbled it. Because That's what they do.

Honestly, if we got Rusev to throw a fish at Aiden, I would've been happy.

I'm also glad the one night in Milwaukee was called out by Lana on its BS, and Rusev barely had any of it, especially after Ziggler/Summer Rae crap... which all came after he WENT UNDEFEATED TO WRESTLEMANIA IN A TANK...

...Sorry, it's Rusev Day. I should calm down.
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^ Don't get me started with stupid love square/quadrangle which even the likes of Hollyoaks or Degrassi would throw in the bin.
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it was WWE night at the Kings game

Mojo was there in a 69 jersey
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TheRock1525 posted...

I like how you cite things that died of their own accord save Becky Lynch, the only person who actually did what was necessary to get and stay over.

No one should be lamenting the fates of Rusev, Cesaro, or Zack Ryder. They basically ended up where they deserved to be.

You're kidding with this post, right

A post this dumb can't actually be real
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