Board 8 > Herein lies a list of 20 video games that may or may not be the best ever.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Completionism is something I don't think I'll ever fully understand. If you're bored of doing quests, stop doing them.
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Xenoblade 1 does have the perfect JRPG protagonist and he is a mighty heropon~
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Yeah, if you try to complete Xenoblades small quests, it will eat you alive. You have to know when to step back, and continue progressing. The fact that it almost never actually requires any of that to progess is key!

neonreaper posted...

Xenoblade 1 does have the perfect JRPG protagonist and he is a mighty heropon~

My one true regret is not using Riki enough, haha.

KamikazePotato posted...

Completionism is something I don't think I'll ever fully understand. If you're bored of doing quests, stop doing them.

Some sort of gamer pride. It's like a marathon runner dying on a treadmill because they needed to 100% it.
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I actually did 2 100% Xenoblade 1 playthroughs, all quests back to back and had no problem at all

had to get both sides of branching quests!

and then after I finished the 2nd 100% playthrough I immediately went to a 3rd speedrun playthrough

anyhow I notice most FF6 fans are also Xenoblade fans because I am the same it's always a fun thing to catch since they're my #1 and #2 favourite games (I can't honestly pick my answer of which is which, but 3rd place is far behind them)

but XB on HM's list is definitely satisfying after all the Xenoblade vs The Last Story fighting
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Tag
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I guess this is more like a Smurf list than I realized
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Before we stray too far from Street Fighter, can anyone expand upon Street Fighter II' Special Champion Edition for the Genesis? I find it odd that it's the only version left out of the collection, but I don't know if there are any marked differences between it and one of the SNES versions.
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Champion Edition is basically the beta for Turbo.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Champion Edition is basically the beta for Turbo.

So I assume Turbo makes it completely useless?
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I think CE is really just SF2 with the ability to pick the four bosses. I think you could also do mirror matches. Turbo added new speed options and moves and colors.
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I was busy yesterday, apologies! I can try to keep one or two new ones a day, at least, haha. Speaking of which, here we go!

14 | The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GameCube)

Were trading huge, mountainous landscapes full of lush, green fields for a whole lotta blue, babythe skies, the oceans, the wind at our backs! I have emotional connections to Wind Waker that may mildly defy real explanation, haha. Both a mixture of the tangible and intangible, lets say.

It came to me at an almost perfect time: fresh off my introduction to the glorious World Wide Web. It was an era of discovering hype cycles, IGN64, and media absorption in a format other the. monthly subscriptions to Nintendo Power. It was a whole new world.

Bonus: it was also the first game I ever actually pre-ordered myself! To this day, I stand by that Wind Waker had the single best pre-order incentive of all-timeOcarina of Time and the unreleased-outside-of-Japan Master Quest, both on one convenient GameCube disc! Even better? You got it months before release, the moment you put down a measly $5! Pins, figures and digital trinketsthe modern era cant compete with what your local EBGames had going.

More than all that, though, is that The Wind Waker captured the spirit, the soul, the character of what Zelda is and should be, all in a unique and fresh way. The feeling of boundless adventure into the open expanse that Breath of the Wild is, rightly, lauded for today had some of its beginnings here, I think.

Lets get it out of the way: The Wind Waker isnt perfect, it has blemishes and spots that could be improved. The dungeons arent numerous, the smaller islands arent particularly significant and the puzzles arent going to tease your brain. With that in mind, I still love what it offers me.

Ill never forget the first trip to Dragon Roost Island. Changing the wind direction to my back, the sharks swimming alongside my trusty boat, the music swelling, catching a fellow traveler in Beedle peddling around the coast, and the landing on the island proper, only to be overwhelme by the excellence of that theme, haha.

(Seriously, that is a top 5 Zelda track!)

No Wind Waker discussion could possibly go without saying how incredible Gabons characterization was in this game. His design, his story, his historyI have no qualms saying that I was almost rooting for the guy at the end. To take a previously Villainous Villain, a Final Boss in every sense of the world, and turn him into sympathetic a figure with understandable motivations was so nice to see. No Zelda character has come through so strongly since.

What Wind Waker does so well is that it takes the core, foundational elements established by Ocarina of a Time, and then builds and improves on it in a way thats unique and stylish. Think about how expressive the world and its characters areLink included!or how old staples like Zoras have evolved and twisted into a whole new race of courier birds, or how smooth and fun the combat iseven if it isnt much more difficult!

Wind Waker pays tribute to the old, while simultaneously trying to embrace the future, recognizing we can move past all the old tropes and ideas. We can safely move forward to a new place, with new ideas and that can be okay. Zelda didnt heed its own message right away, unfortunately, because somehow TP followed this game, but we got there in the end.

No Wind Waker discussion could possibly go without saying how incredible Gabons characterization was in this game.

couldn't agree more

SH2 had the best preorder bonus! https://www.gamespot.com/articles/midway-offers-shadow-hearts-preorder-bonus/1100-6103893/
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transience posted...

I think CE is really just SF2 with the ability to pick the four bosses. I think you could also do mirror matches. Turbo added new speed options and moves and colors.

They did some rebalancing, too, but yeah, it's not too different otherwise.
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Zelda would be a much better series if Ganon were replaced by Gabon, this is true.
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Im glad my phone can recognize the true power of GABON.

I had no idea SH2 did the same thing! Thats actually kind of cool.

heroicmario posted...

ind Waker pays tribute to the old, while simultaneously trying to embrace the future, recognizing we can move past all the old tropes and ideas.

man. I love Wind Waker, but that is one Zelda-ass Zelda game.
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Mmm, yeah, I mean... what I was meaning to talking about there was about the messaging at the endthe hopeful, new future, leaving the old behind. Wind Waker didnt break through convention totally, I wouldnt argue it didnt hit key Zelda notes, but its not Twilight Princess, you know?

heroicmario posted...

but its not Twilight Princess, you know?

if only
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Haha, I tried to revisit TP on the Wii U, but oof, I couldnt get much further than the first couple of dungeons. TP is real bloated, I dont think it has held up very well, either in design or aesthetics. To me, I would rather play Ocarina of Time for a comparable, but breezier, more fun experience.

goat.

in.
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Gabon-banned?

Also, this "hopeful, new future" thingemabob Wind Waker promised us turned out to be total malarkey. What it actually led to was friggin' Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Truly the darkest timeline.
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man, it's been so long since I've played Wind Waker that I assumed Gabon was some one-off character I had forgotten. that's hilarious.

that's why I have two copies of SH1 - one sealed! one day that will be worth like 27 bucks
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Goats will forever be TPs legacy. Remember how you had to deal with them multiple times in that village? Calamity GABON did farmers everywhere a favor.

AxemRedRanger posted...

Also, this "hopeful, new future" thingemabob Wind Waker promised us turned out to be total malarkey. What it actually led to was friggin' Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Truly the darkest timeline.

Heres a dark take for the darkest timeline: I thought Phantom Hourglass was secretly a fun game, haha!

Was it an all-time experience? Yeah, maybe not. But I loved the boomerang stylus puzzles! If it wasnt for the Ocean King Temple, it would have been a better experience.

Spirit Tracks I never played.

IWWs reception really killed any significant exploration of the new world and ideas ending, I think. I remember being amped when IGN reported on a Nintendo slide presentation with Wind Waker 2 for the next major Zelda game, but by all accounts, that became TP. No love for ol football head, haha.

heroicmario posted...

To sum this all up, did you know that I wrote the entire Game Script for Final Fantasy VI Advance? This wasnt a time when a data dump happened, and I just cleaned it up. No, sir, I played through the entire game and typed it up as I went..

I was nuts, I had too much time, haha. I did that for free! The power of good video games, maybe.

You're a fucking treasure, dude. So glad you're back, even for just one topic!
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transience posted...

man, it's been so long since I've played Wind Waker that I assumed Gabon was some one-off character I had forgotten. that's hilarious.

I actually googled "gabon wind waker" before I realized
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wind waker is the worst zelda
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Never understood the hate for Wind Waker. I guess it made people mad because it was decidedly un-edgy in the peak of early 00s edgedom?
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Breath of the Wild is the best Zelda game anyway
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I played wind waker last year so nah

it was the empty overworld, tedious sidequests, and linear dungeon design that really killed it
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i didn't like the way link looked for sure. everyone else's character design i was cool with. i like the graphical style but i didn't really loke it in zelda.

sailing sucks and that triforce hunt was the worst

the wind waker itself also sucked in comparison to the ocarina of time
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Wind Waker was my first 3d Zelda and I thought it sucked.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Never understood the hate for Wind Waker. I guess it made people mad because it was decidedly un-edgy in the peak of early 00s edgedom?

Most people actually hate Zelda a lot. That's why everyone loves BOTW.
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Wind Waker is #1 for a lot of series fans, primarily due to the art style and fanciful exploration. There's definitely a fun feeling when you're closing in on a new island for the first time, watching it slowly get bigger against the ocean around it. I wouldn't say WW is hated, and many people will argue that it's aged better than Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

Where it fails is in its lack of challenge. 3D Zelda games don't have the most challenging combat, but at least the dungeons can stump a player. WW has the most simplistic puzzles and least threatening combat. It's the only Zelda game I beat without dying once.

As for Xenoblade - top 10 game for me. It took the "small but intimate party" idea I saw in Chrono Trigger (when I played it a year earlier) and really took it to the next level. Those Heart-to-Hearts were beautiful. Like GMUN, I played it twice, and near the end of my first playthrough, I had begun to get nostalgic for the game while playing it. How the fuck is that even a thing?

Shulk/Dunban/Seven was my favorite party. All three were just so fun to play.
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I haven't played Wind Waker so I can't really comment on it. I've never had a problem with the cel-shading though.
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It's a pretty inoffensive game - too easy to really be frustrating, and it isn't bogged down by pacing issues and filler UNTIL THE END (which pisses a lot of people off).
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Wind Waker had exploration but the world felt super empty, at least to me. I actually beat Wind Waker without ever getting an extra heart (I had 3 pieces) so either I hated the sailing or sucked at finding things.
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Did anyone here play Wind Waker HD? The QOL improvements for so many things was improved dramatically. A Hero Mode for difficulty, a faster sail that doesnt require wind direction changing, and dramatically reduced tedium for the Triforce Quest. It may not fix the number of dungeons, or challenge of the puzzles, but you know! Of all the ports Nintendo could do, Wind Waker HD is one of the ones I want the most.

If Nintendo ever ports that thing to the Switch, I might get it

I totally skipped over the Wii U
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Also, I had a busy day today, so I didnt get around to another write up, but Ill see if I cant whip one together, haha.

I think I liked the fact that the world was mostly open space. It wouldn't be much of a sea otherwise, nor would it have been as exciting to sail toward new islands if they were everywhere. Though I also didn't mind Skyward Sword's sky, and people seemed generally sour on that so maybe I'm just weird.

That said, many people who hated the sailing did so because you needed to play the wind song every time you wanted to change the wind's direction (no way to skip the cutscene or anything). That WAS annoying, but the remastered version on WiiU introduced a super sail which addressed the issue.
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Sniped by HM - slow day for me
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I feel like if I bothered to play more than a couple of hours of Wind Waker I'd possibly like it the most of the 3D Zelda games. Like the style is cool looking and I like what I've heard of the plot/characterization of Ganon. I'm not fond of puzzles in general in 3D Zelda games and I already find Zelda's combat to have pretty much 0 difficulty so being a little easier doesn't really matter-- I'm not getting game over or really breaking a sweat regardless since my difficulty scale on these types of games is way the hell above Zelda's paygrade.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

but at least the dungeons can stump a player

Nope. Some of MM's dungeons were difficult but all the other games had pretty equal difficulty dungeons, with WW having some of the harder challenges. It's only because people played OoT when they were 8 that they thought it was hard. Combat difficulty was lower but that's good because it's normally just dumb and frustrating.

I can imagine the original sailing system could be so frustrating that it ruins the overall game experience, but that's fairly minor compared to all the awesome things in the game. So I think it still comes down to hating Zelda in general. The same thing happens with SS where people like to blame it all on the motion controls (which were great) or Fi (minor annoyance) when it's really just a general dislike.
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What a weird argument. I like OoT, MM, and TP, but I don't like WW. Does that mean I don't like Zelda?

If anything, WW is sub-par because it doesn't succeed at the things that Zelda is good at. The dungeons are weak and the atmosphere is lacking. It puts all its eggs in the 'sea exploration' basket and it doesn't do that nearly as well as it could because the rewards for exploring are unsatisfying, nor does exploring lead you to any unique/memorable locations.

I also don't dislike the whimsical art style, but I didn't like it nearly as much as the rest of the series. I don't think you have to be 'edgey' to say that WW is a fairly big departure from the vibe of most of the rest of the series, at least up until Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild. LTTP, OoT, and TP are pretty somber games, and MM is downright dark.
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KamikazePotato posted...

What a weird argument.

I take it you're not familiar with foolmo
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The dungeons are good and the atmosphere is incredible. It is easily the most charming Zelda world (unless you count MM as charming). If you didn't like it then fine, that's valid, but it's not a flaw in the game. The way the dungeons and items interact with the world and story is probably the strongest in the whole series also, now that I think about it.

And there was like no focus on sea exploration. There was no real sea exploration at all since you know the world was a grid and there was always 1 island in each cell. All the exploration was on the actual islands, and there is a lot of it with lots of cool puzzles. Windfall alone is basically a mini Clock Town, which is the last time the series ever had an area that good. There's also a lot of useless islands and random water obstacles, which you can just skip. Like I said, I can imagine this being way worse in the original. But in HD the sea really is just a big loading screen between islands.

So yeah I still think what you're saying doesn't make much sense, beyond disliking the different atmosphere.
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Charming is pretty subjective. I found very little of WW charming. The dungeons were my least-favorite in the series, and you're being pretty disingenuous if you try to say that WW has no focus on sea exploration. Like 70% of the game is spent sailing in the sea and on random islands, and like you said, lots of them are useless filler (not did I find the non-useless ones to be interesting at all). The grid format doesn't change that - you're still traveling through the world and filling out the map. Contrast this with TP, which has a barebones overworld that's more or less design to direct you towards the next dungeon.

Maybe to you WW is what represents the Zelda series. For me, it isn't. That doesn't mean I don't like the series - it means I don't like Wind Waker.
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