Poll of the Day > You are in a fight. You're losing

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not a life or death situation.
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thecolorgreen posted...

Not a life or death situation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38992393

All fights have the potential to be life or death. I'm not waiting until I lose, I'm starting the fight dirty.
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I would have started fighting dirty in the first three seconds of the fight.

People who think that there should be some obligatory requirement in life for everyone to fight fair and honorably can go fuck themselves. I've never been the sort of asshole who starts physical fights just for shits and giggles, so presumably, if I'm in a fight, some asshole jumped me or started throwing punches first, or was in some way threatening me or someone I care about, at which point I have absolutely zero regard for either their opinion of me or their physical well-being, so I'm pretty much going to be aiming to cripple them for life right out of the gate.

It's kind of hard to fight someone when they're jamming their thumbs into your eye sockets or trying to crush your windpipe.

And if they're still winning in spite of my fighting that way, my strategy is going to be to run away, and find the nearest escalated weapon. Preferably running them over with my car.


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Equip my glaive
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I take off my pants.

It's a defense mechanism.
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I'd probably give up and run away.
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thecolorgreen posted...

Not a life or death situation.

Then either I wouldn't be fighting in the first place, or it'd be a formal sparring match and there'd be some sort of rules dictating how I lose, such that I don't really have to make a decision.
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It depends on the circumstance. Just a random brawl? PO sums it up well.

In a tournament, I'd abide by the rules, and lose humbly over "win" and be disqualified.
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I want to say honorably, but when I was young enough to always be getting into fist fights (at bars, road rage a few times, parties etc.) my life view was a lot different. It was about my ego and all this other shit.

Now that I'm a lot older, I wouldn't be getting into a fist fight unless the situation absolutely required it, so it would result in me getting violent by any means necessary to stop the fight (like the above poster said) there is no proof that it will not be "life or death"; bad things can happen.
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I don't fight.

"Start" fighting dirty? If I'm in a street fight, there is no "clean" fighting or "honorable" fighting lol

It's not a fucking sparring match, it's him or me, and I'd rather it be him, so I'm doing whatever the fuck I can to make sure that it is.
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I'd open by kicking them in the crotch. Fighting with honor isn't funny and entertaining.
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That's my purse!

I don't know you!
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I'd just git gud
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myghostisdead posted...

I don't fight.

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Not a likely scenario, but I'm gonna win at by any means necessary
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I would just let him beat me up. My punches are about as hurtful as getting a pillow thrown at you.
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I wouldn't be in a fight or start one in the first place. If after kindly asking them to fuck off and go away with no results I'd draw my weapon and see if if they decide to heed my warning or end up on the wrong side of my state's stand your ground law.
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So is this, like, a samurai duel?
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Action53 posted...

I wouldn't be in a fight or start one in the first place. If after kindly asking them to fuck off and go away with no results I'd draw my weapon and see if if they decide to heed my warning or end up on the wrong side of my state's stand your ground law.

I want to give you a warning, that isn't how the stand your ground law works entirely. There has to be disparity of force, where "death or great bodily harm" would have resulted if you didn't pull the trigger. If you are more muscular or in general bigger than the guy attacking you, YOU CANNOT use lethal force to end the dispute. If Vin Diesel was being threatened hand to hand violence by Jim Parsons in a "Castle Doctrine" state, and Vin Diesel used a firearm to protect himself, Vin Diesel would go to prison and so will you in the same scenario. There has to be a disparity of force, such as someone much tougher than you attacking you, someone using a weapon (be it knife, baseball bat, crowbar, gun), or multiple attackers threatening you.
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well if I can turn the tide by fighting dirty, then I fight dirty, but what's probably going to happen is that I would tap out or something because most fights are resolved really quickly
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jmikla posted...

I'd just git gud

I smiled

Winning > pride any day of the week

I don't understand the street code of fighting. It's like people who are proud that they didn't snitch and end up in prison.

Sarcasthma posted...

I take off my pants.

It's a defense mechanism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VICAQ1JfyW4

depends who i'm fighting and why.
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MannerSaurus posted...

want to give you a warning, that isn't how the stand your ground law works entirely. There has to be disparity of force, where "death or great bodily harm" would have resulted if you didn't pull the trigger. If you are more muscular or in general bigger than the guy attacking you, YOU CANNOT use lethal force to end the dispute. If Vin Diesel was being threatened hand to hand violence by Jim Parsons in a "Castle Doctrine" state, and Vin Diesel used a firearm to protect himself, Vin Diesel would go to prison and so will you in the same scenario. There has to be a disparity of force, such as someone much tougher than you attacking you, someone using a weapon (be it knife, baseball bat, crowbar, gun), or multiple attackers threatening you.

Someone trying to start a fight and kick your ass is plenty in this state. I have zero legal duty to retreat from somewhere I'm legally allowed to be, the size of the attacker has nothing to do with it, I have no idea what drugs the other person is on nor what his intentions are or what they might have in their pockets, just them coming at someone in an aggressive and threatening manner. What you're saying may be true in your state or further north than mine but it's acceptable here and has been proven to be true in multiple cases similar to what I described.

I'm not saying I would definitely shoot someone or am looking for a reason either, I'd hate to have to do something like that. But with an angry person in a fighting mood I'd pick my life over theirs every time.
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Action53 posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

want to give you a warning, that isn't how the stand your ground law works entirely. There has to be disparity of force, where "death or great bodily harm" would have resulted if you didn't pull the trigger. If you are more muscular or in general bigger than the guy attacking you, YOU CANNOT use lethal force to end the dispute. If Vin Diesel was being threatened hand to hand violence by Jim Parsons in a "Castle Doctrine" state, and Vin Diesel used a firearm to protect himself, Vin Diesel would go to prison and so will you in the same scenario. There has to be a disparity of force, such as someone much tougher than you attacking you, someone using a weapon (be it knife, baseball bat, crowbar, gun), or multiple attackers threatening you.

Someone trying to start a fight and kick your ass is plenty in this state. I have zero legal duty to retreat from somewhere I'm legally allowed to be, the size of the attacker has nothing to do with it, I have no idea what drugs the other person is on nor what his intentions are or what they might have in their pockets, just them coming at someone in an aggressive and threatening manner. What you're saying may be true in your state or further north than mine but it's acceptable here and has been proven to be true in multiple cases similar to what I described.

I'm not saying I would definitely shoot someone or am looking for a reason either, I'd hate to have to do something like that. But with an angry person in a fighting mood I'd pick my life over theirs every time.

Any of the 50 states of the United States what I said is true. If it can be proven that your life was not in danger (say you are jacked, and the attacker was some skinny punk), or that you escalated the situation to lethal when it wasn't to begin with, you will be sitting in prison. You don't have to take my word on it. You cannot discharge a firearm in the United States of America without being legitimately afraid of "death or great bodily harm" towards you or somebody else. Some little guy wanting to break your nose in a bar fight is NOT grounds for even pulling a firearm, much less firing it, especially if you're a big enough person to handle the situation without it. Do you think a 330 pound bouncer can just pull his sidearm out and shoot a 115 pound 18 year old skater kid swinging on him? That would be a prison sentence in all 50 states. You can argue with me all you want, but I just hope you don't ever get proven wrong inside of a cell.
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MannerSaurus posted...

Action53 posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

want to give you a warning, that isn't how the stand your ground law works entirely. There has to be disparity of force, where "death or great bodily harm" would have resulted if you didn't pull the trigger. If you are more muscular or in general bigger than the guy attacking you, YOU CANNOT use lethal force to end the dispute. If Vin Diesel was being threatened hand to hand violence by Jim Parsons in a "Castle Doctrine" state, and Vin Diesel used a firearm to protect himself, Vin Diesel would go to prison and so will you in the same scenario. There has to be a disparity of force, such as someone much tougher than you attacking you, someone using a weapon (be it knife, baseball bat, crowbar, gun), or multiple attackers threatening you.

Someone trying to start a fight and kick your ass is plenty in this state. I have zero legal duty to retreat from somewhere I'm legally allowed to be, the size of the attacker has nothing to do with it, I have no idea what drugs the other person is on nor what his intentions are or what they might have in their pockets, just them coming at someone in an aggressive and threatening manner. What you're saying may be true in your state or further north than mine but it's acceptable here and has been proven to be true in multiple cases similar to what I described.

I'm not saying I would definitely shoot someone or am looking for a reason either, I'd hate to have to do something like that. But with an angry person in a fighting mood I'd pick my life over theirs every time.

Any of the 50 states of the United States what I said is true. If it can be proven that your life was not in danger (say you are jacked, and the attacker was some skinny punk), or that you escalated the situation to lethal when it wasn't to begin with, you will be sitting in prison. You don't have to take my word on it. You cannot discharge a firearm in the United States of America without being legitimately afraid of "death or great bodily harm" towards you or somebody else. Some little guy wanting to break your nose in a bar fight is NOT grounds for even pulling a firearm, much less firing it, especially if you're a big enough person to handle the situation without it. Do you think a 330 pound bouncer can just pull his sidearm out and shoot a 115 pound 18 year old skater kid swinging on him? That would be a prison sentence in all 50 states. You can argue with me all you want, but I just hope you don't ever get proven wrong inside of a cell.

i've always hated the size BS i've beat the shit out of my brother plenty of times when he was double my weight, and had my ass kicked by people smaller than me.

though my mom being a prison guard has used that to her advantage plenty of times. though she does give the prisoner fair warning that due to her size and gender she can escalate the amount of force she uses much quicker than most of the other guards. oddly enough though despite her size and gender they stuck or on as pointman on the riot squad.
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I'm not saying you're wrong. Size doesn't always matter in a fight. But in the eyes of the law, if it's obvious you didn't have to use your gun, you will be punished and charged. You can't just shoot your gun because you want to avoid a fist fight with Steve Urkle.
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Wield my katana and go full neckbeard on the soon-to-be sorry normie
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MannerSaurus posted...

I'm not saying you're wrong. Size doesn't always matter in a fight. But in the eyes of the law, if it's obvious you didn't have to use your gun, you will be punished and charged. You can't just shoot your gun because you want to avoid a fist fight with Steve Urkle.

just to be clear i'm not the dude you where debating with, just throwing my 2 cents in for the sake of discussion.
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Equip my +1 boomerang
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The question is weird for me to answer, because:

1) If it wasn't a life or death situation, I probably wouldn't be fighting in the first place.
2) If I did wind up fighting, it's because I already tried to run away and couldn't, so cutting-and-running mid-fight isn't likely to be an option.
3) I've trained in martial arts for 25 years. If I'm fighting all out and losing, it's a life or death situation.

So yeah, I guess my answer is I would attempt to run first, but failing that I would fight as dirty as I had to in order to stop the fight and/or create an opening for me to run. Which is the strategy I would be employing throughout pretty much the entire fight.
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MannerSaurus posted...

Any of the 50 states of the United States what I said is true. If it can be proven that your life was not in danger (say you are jacked, and the attacker was some skinny punk), or that you escalated the situation to lethal when it wasn't to begin with, you will be sitting in prison.

No, this is not true. In fact, this is one of the major problems with "Stand Your Ground."

Stand Your Ground laws vary from state to state, but generally mean that you are considered justified in using lethal force if you fear for your life, property, or the life of your family. Note that your life doesn't have to actually be in danger, you just need to have reason to fear for your life, and being involved in a physical altercation has been repeatedly proven to be sufficient to satisfy the law's requirements. The other guy doesn't have to be bigger than you or brandishing a weapon or anything like that.

Hell, one of the most disgusting applications of Stand Your Ground that I ever read about was a guy that shot another guy he'd been playing basketball with in front of the victim's young daughter. They'd started arguing, got into a physical fight, the victim started getting the better of his opponent, so the guy pulls out his gun and shoots the other guy. But you know the sick part? The shooter was the guy who started the fight and threw the first punch in the first place.

Just to re-iterate: the guy starts a fight, eventually shoots the guy he's fighting with, and was found not guilty of murder thanks to Stand Your Ground.
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I have just as many courtroom verdict examples to prove the contrary.
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MannerSaurus posted...

I have just as many courtroom verdict examples to prove the contrary.

Let's see them, then. From all 50 states, if you please.
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https://www.theet.com/fairmontnews/news/fairmont-man-arrested-for-allegedly
-using-firearm-during-fight/article_dcec1289-322c-5316-96fd-9dc640b9d192.html

http://www.uticaod.com/news/20160307/utica-man-arrested-on-gun-charges-following-fight

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime/gun-brandished-in-fight-man-arrested-madison-police-say/article_
e5113ebf-fea2-50b9-9ba7-58113cf87564.html

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/crime/article26106106.html

I don't think any of these articles actually linked to the final courtroom verdict, but I can look later if you guys wish. Again, argue all you want. At the end of the day, I hope neither of you gentlemen are in a situation where you are forced to use your firearm. I believe both of you to be fine men. And if you are, I hope neither of you are facing the courtroom for unclear usage. The fact is, there is not a courtroom in the United States of America that would find a 330 pound bouncer shooting a 115 pound unarmed Steve Urkle to be considered innocent or self-defense or a "justified shooting." That extreme hypothetical is something I am 100% sure of.
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MannerSaurus posted...

At the end of the day, I hope neither of you gentlemen are in a situation where you are forced to use your firearm

Don't have one, don't want one, would never willingly carry one, don't live in the US anyways, so this is a moot point for me on multiple levels.

MannerSaurus posted...

The fact is, there is not a courtroom in the United States of America that would find a 330 pound bouncer shooting a 115 pound unarmed Steve Urkle to be considered innocent or self-defense or a "justified shooting." That extreme hypothetical is something I am 100% sure of.

Funny thing about that...

Here's 26 examples of children and teenagers whose shooters claimed Stand Your Ground (some successfully, some not):

https://thinkprogress.org/at-least-26-children-or-teens-died-in-florida-stand-your-ground-cases-726443948a64/

And if you earnestly think that a 115 pound guy cannot pose a threat to a 330 pound guy, you don't know much about fighting. While the 330 pound guy has a distinct advantage, it is more than possible for the 115 pound guy to pose a threat to the other guy's life, whether he is armed or not.
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I'm not a 330lb bouncer kicking out a 115lb Steve Urkle

I'm a 200lb average dude in the parking lot of the grocery store with some angry guy cussing me out because I backed into the good spot close to the door before he did
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Equip magic missile
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Why am I fighting clean in the first place?

Anything that doesn't cause permanent damage is fair game by me. Aka no eyes or balls shots.

darkknight109 posted...

MannerSaurus posted...

At the end of the day, I hope neither of you gentlemen are in a situation where you are forced to use your firearm

Don't have one, don't want one, would never willingly carry one, don't live in the US anyways, so this is a moot point for me on multiple levels.

MannerSaurus posted...

The fact is, there is not a courtroom in the United States of America that would find a 330 pound bouncer shooting a 115 pound unarmed Steve Urkle to be considered innocent or self-defense or a "justified shooting." That extreme hypothetical is something I am 100% sure of.

Funny thing about that...

Here's 26 examples of children and teenagers whose shooters claimed Stand Your Ground (some successfully, some not):

https://thinkprogress.org/at-least-26-children-or-teens-died-in-florida-stand-your-ground-cases-726443948a64/

And if you earnestly think that a 115 pound guy cannot pose a threat to a 330 pound guy, you don't know much about fighting. While the 330 pound guy has a distinct advantage, it is more than possible for the 115 pound guy to pose a threat to the other guy's life, whether he is armed or not.

I boxed for 7 years in a gym, 13 total if you count outside of the gym in sparring in my mid-20's. I've had more "fights" (if you count sparring) in my life than many people combined, in the sport of boxing alone. I'm not even including the real ones that got me arrested or kicked out of school (older and younger examples.) 215 pounds is a CONSIDERABLE difference in weight. People of different skills and sizes can do different things in combat, but at that kind of difference you can literally just hold the guy in place (like many bouncers are trained to do) and wait for police while the scrawny wuss struggles uselessly. Using a firearm in a scenario like that is asinine, and illegal.
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Yellow posted...

Why am I fighting clean in the first place?

Anything that doesn't cause permanent damage is fair game by me. Aka no eyes or balls shots.

And really, even these are probably okay if they instigated the situation and there's any potential for you to be seriously harmed.

I gave my brother a black eye once through dirty tactics and got lambasted for it for not fighting fair. The fuck is fighting fair? Raising your fists and punching? He's taller with longer arms, how's that fair? Fuck what others think.

"He who fights and runs away / Lives to fight another day!"

The important word is always context. Who am I fighting and why? If I'm defending my person against an assault, I'm going to fight dirty while likely planning to escape at the first opportune moment and let the authorities handle it from there. If I'm outmatched by an assailant -- or assailants -- where I can't escape and I'm in danger of injury, I would likely just stab the attacker(s), probably in a non-lethal area but I'm going to strike enough times that they'd either retreat or become incapacitated (unless a better weapon was handy). I don't like the idea but if one of us is ending up in a hospital, it's not going to be me.

If it's an all-out brawl, I'm just getting out of these and grabbing any friends, etc, and then calling the cops. If it's a fight with a friend, I can probably kick most of my friends' asses so that's a non-issue although I'd obviously go out of my way not to hurt them -- probably just apply a wrestling hold until I get them to calm down (which I've done a few times) -- or surrender if that was an option.
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Depending on the circumstances, I act differently.
Honestly though, I am not a fighter and so, the chance of me fighting is impossible to begin with.
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MannerSaurus posted...

I boxed for 7 years in a gym, 13 total if you count outside of the gym in sparring in my mid-20's. I've had more "fights" (if you count sparring) in my life than many people combined, in the sport of boxing alone. I'm not even including the real ones that got me arrested or kicked out of school (older and younger examples.) 215 pounds is a CONSIDERABLE difference in weight. People of different skills and sizes can do different things in combat, but at that kind of difference you can literally just hold the guy in place (like many bouncers are trained to do) and wait for police while the scrawny wuss struggles uselessly.

As mentioned above, I've practiced martial arts for 25 years. I run a school these days and I've trained with cops in their CQC program. Trust me when I say I know my stuff, particularly when it comes to street fighting.

As I mentioned above, a weight advantage - particularly one of that magnitude - is a significant advantage. But also note that's not what I said; I said that it's entirely possible for someone to be at a weight disadvantage and still be a significant threat. Maybe they have more training, or are more fit, or are a better fighter. Maybe the bigger guy doesn't know what he's doing or is slow or worn out. Or maybe the smaller guy just happened to be lucky. Either way, assuming a smaller guy could never pose a serious threat to a larger guy is simply ignorant of how fighting works.

Related: here's a match of a guy beating someone who is over 400 lbs heavier than he is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWxlZ52O0rI
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Ad hominem.
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If I ain't in a sanctioned, paid fight (which I wouldn't be anyways because I would clearly loose), then I am fighting dirty from the start. I will gouge out your eyes, twist your nuts off, whatever it takes to survive.
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Veedrock- posted...

Ad hominem.

If that's in response to me, stating one's qualifications is not in any way an ad hominem argument.
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